http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/

Sup, good read.

There is no best choice. They are all just that, choices. And depending on your moral compass, the best choice will be different.

So true so true

Actually, it all sounds pretty magnificent and at the same time a disgusting ploy to get people to buy DLC.

I just replayed the ending.
I now have more reason to believe the indoctrination theory is true.

Notice at the description of the three choices you have:
Destroy: The catalyst tells you there will NOT be peace. Definitely.
Control: The catalyst tells you with that the reapers will obey you. I.e: You can bring about peace by controlling the reapers. Furthermore, it hesitated when you asked that question, pausing for a while before answering yes. Now why would it do that? Why would it hesitate? Well, the Reapers are obviously a very proud race. By lying to fulfil their goal of indoctrinating Shepard, that's kinda like a blow to their pride, don'cha think? Furthermore, you even asked whether TIM was right, and it said yes with certainty.
Synthesis: The catalyst avoids your question entirely. It merely tells you the cycle will end. But it doesn't tell you whether there will be peace.

Now for something with apparently no vested interest in the outcomes, it sure looks as if it would like you to choose the control or synthesis option. It's trying to subtly push you to an option more favourable to the Reapers. Then, at the end it tells you you have a difficult decision and that you have to choose, still giving you the option to choose destroy so as to not make the indoctrination so obvious.



This review is also fantastic: http://calitreview.com/24673

This post has been edited by hahli9: Mar 20 2012, 01:52 AM

EA probably forced them to cut out that part for DLC or something. I frankly wouldn't be surprised knowing EA.

OR they ran out of time and they're releasing it as free DLC later on. <- Let's hope for this.

This post has been edited by hahli9: Mar 20 2012, 06:36 AM

The indoctrination theory is an extension. The theory counts on the fact that the whole sequence of the ending after Harbinger's laser is in Shepard's head. That's why if you have a high enough EMS and choose the destroy option Shepard wakes up on London. Assuming this theory is actually BioWare's plan, the game would most likely continue from there.

I personally enjoy the MP. And while I agree it sucks that you have to play the MP to get 4000EMS, you could just use a save file editor to increase your EMS if you absolutely don't want to play it.

You may label it however you want but, in my opinion, the indoctrination theory makes a lot of sense.

If it were to be true, mass effect would be one of the greatest trilogies of all time. A true masterpiece and a piece of literary brilliance in game form.
Right now, it commits literary suicide right at the end and it simply ends in disappointment and not the bittersweet satisfaction you get at the end of a brilliant book or movie. Sometimes, you just don't want films or books to end, but then they have to and you're content with that because the ending was satisfactory, or maybe even fantastic. But this... This is not satisfactory in any sense of the word.

I am not finding comfort in tin foil hat fan fiction and I do not believe I am entitled to that ending.
I simply want to believe that ending is true because it is bloody brilliant.

Frankly, in my opinion, the only ones with entitlement issues are those who want all the DLC for free. Just because they have the game does not make them entitled to the DLC. The stark hypocrisy is very appalling. You may argue that it is unethical or that maybe it is just not right, but well that is the exact feelings of those who drew through logical process that the indoctrination of Shepard might be, in fact, true and given the ample amount reasoning and proof behind it, I have no reason to believe it is false.

Like someone once said, "Why not believe in something until proven otherwise, rather than disbelieving it until proven true?"

Cheers.

The thing about DX:HR is the game wasn't all about Jensen's choices and how they affected the world. Mass Effect was all about Shepard's choices and how they affected the galaxy. Importing save files from the two previous games just for it to culminate into a select screen at the end is utter bullshit. I'm not saying the DLC is just and fair. They are wrong and if they purposely omitted the true ending to force people to buy it then it is disgusting and should not be tolerated.

You do not need to buy the packs to win. It makes it easier to buy them with real money but it is in the end unnecessary.
And the random card packs are a disgusting method to keep people in interested? Well, sorry, but things like this have been going on since the early days of entertainment. They need something to keep people interested. I frankly lost interest in BF:BC2 after I unlocked all the weapons. I am serious. There was really no motivation to play any more after that. Things like this don't even only occur in video games, they occur in real life as well. Random card packs come from card games like Magic: The Gathering and Pokemon where you would buy packs in hopes that you'll get your desired card, and if you don't well, buy another one! And unlike video games, there is no alternative option but to pay for them in real money. It is only because ME3 is more mainstream than card games that you raise this issue.

Buying cash in game is a symbol of EA's greed? Please. It is optional. Optional being the operative word here. Team Fortress 2 does this all the time. You can buy weapon/hat/accessory packs with real money. Otherwise you hope they randomly drop out of the sky when you're playing the game or you craft it yourself with other items that randomly drop out of the sky or you trade an undesirable item that happens to also fall out from the sky for a desirable item that the other person probably obtained by having it fall out from the sky.

Furthermore, someone said luck is disregarded when you pay more because they can just keep paying and paying? Luck is not disregarded. You still have the same probability of obtaining an item you want. It is just easier because you theoretically have more tries. In the end, after all this, the point that you "pay2win" is still moot since it is a co-op game. You're not facing an enemy team of human players that have an advantage because they bought items more powerful than you. The idea behind pay2win is that without paying, you can't get the best items. No matter what. In ME3, paying just makes it easier for you to get the best weapons whereas without paying you'll have to earn credits by playing the game. Fair trade, in my opinion, those who pay deserve it.

And don't even say you have to buy Infiltrator. You don't. You can play multiplayer that you got for free with the game. Each time you win, takes around 20mins, increases your galactic readiness by 9%. Now if you say you can get 3.9k EMS without playing multiplayer then well 9% will easily put you over 4k EMS. What you're saying is you don't like the multiplayer not because of the gameplay of the multiplayer component but because of how they give you incentive to play the multiplayer component. What kind of reasoning is that? If you honestly don't enjoy the multiplayer the fine. Forcing you to play the multiplayer by having it affect your EMS isn't very nice but in the end it does no harm.

The initial argument here was that the indoctrination theory was bullshit and I was arguing against that. I never said that the way they're doing the DLCs for ME3 was justifiable. Though you could read the part where I said those who believe the DLC should have been theirs from the beginning are fans with entitlement issues as support for the DLC, the fact is, the Prothean is non-essential.
The history of the Protheans is not essential to the story. It is nice to know but it is not a necessity.
Might I remind you that the only reason DLC has blown out of proportion is because we have yet to show that DLC is an issue? While we may say clearly here that we are not going to buy any more DLC, we are the minority. I haven't bought DLC to date, but I bought From Ashes because so far I had a pretty brilliant time with Mass Effect 3, so I thought hey, it's 30 ringgit, why not? Then the ending happened.

Oh, btw, no one discusses the SP in the ME3 main thread because this thread was created to discuss the story. There's a reason there's two separate threads. One for spoilers & story discussion and one without.

This post has been edited by hahli9: Mar 20 2012, 09:58 PM

People enjoy the feeling of achieving something. Being rewarded after doing something is a good feeling, it's the same as getting achievements and stuff. But I understand your reasons.

I never got a Familiar Fez. Trading and crafting weren't in the game at first. TF2 was at it's prime right before they put all the extra stuff in IMO. But that's irrelevant. It still all comes down to the luck factor with TF2. You just have more options at getting the item.

Fair enough. You legitimately don't enjoy the multiplayer and the game forcing you to play the multiplayer only makes it worse. Though AFAIK this is the first time BioWare did multiplayer, no? We should cut them some slack. I really don't see any other way they could have gotten people interested in the multiplayer.
Though I expected some Cerberus/Geth vs. Alliance PvP at least. Hm.

There was never a mystery surrounding the Protheans. The only reason they were relevant was because they were closest to defeating the Reapers. Everything else was just extra. But yes I do feel that without Javik the game would be less, I never played the game without Javik so I wouldn't know but I can't see how the game would be like without him. I won't defend their decision to release it as DLC because I feel like it should've been included in the main game as well. Besides, you never found out anything new about the Protheans in ME3 except for their touch and feel abilities. You already knew they were trying to preserve themselves but failed due to power failure in ME1. In ME2 you find out they turned into the Collectors. In ME3... Well nothing new. Since Javik was a soldier and all he couldn't even tell you anything.

Mass Effect never lost it's identity. I still look at it as a SP game first. The only reason they're discussing the multiplayer primarily in the main thread is because it is continuously relevant. The single player component... There's really nothing much to ask about it except the story or some quest issues. The quest tracking system is horrible btw.

Anyway, let's put this past us. It is a pointless discussion. EA is disgusting for the DLC and probably forcing BioWare to include multiplayer. Period.

Oh? I regret not taking Javik on the Thessia mission then. xP

The Matrix and Spider-Man was alright to me. The endings fit what the movies were. Though maybe I should watch them again, I watched Matrix when I was a kid and last time it was all, "Explosion! Yay!"

The difference here is you are comparing movies to games. In games, the endings CAN be patched, they can be changed if the developers see a better way to end them. I can't say anything about Star Wars since I haven't watched the initial trilogy recently. And wtf Romeo & Juliet? ME3 was never a love story was it? I can't say I've read Romeo & Juliet so I can't give any more in-depth analysis of the story but seriously, comparing ME to Romeo & Juliet is just nonsense.

And just to answer your initial statement, there is no expectation that ME3 would be a true masterpiece. The thing I said was that ME3 would be a masterpiece if the indoctrination theory were true. Please don't just read a single sentence and throw the rest of my post out the window. There was however an expectation of more than 1 ending with 3 slight differences between them. The developers have always said that the endings would weigh in all your choices from the previous games. That was why you were given the option to import your save files. If in the end, no matter what you did, you'd separate all the races of Mass Effect by destroying all the mass relays then what the hell was the entire of mass effect's plot for? Throughout the whole of ME3, you go uniting all the races. The Turians and the Krogans, the Quarians and the Geth. What was that for? Just to build an army strong enough to get on the crucible? Mass Effect was more than a war against the Reapers, it was Shepard's effect on the galaxy. This human race, an infant of galactic travel, uniting the races to bring about a common cause: Survival through any means. And if that means is the destruction of the Reapers then so be it.

You know, there's a reason they let you unite the Geth and Quarian last. They want that choice to still be in your head when you make the choices at the ending. Knowing that you've united the Geth and Quarian before, why would you choose to destroy? You have single-handedly caused and experienced the unification of an organic and a synthetic race. That Shepard would not argue against the holographic synthetic God starchild is just nonsense. On the brink of death, a God appears before you and tells you that you can throw all you have accomplished away, control what you have sought to destroy and right after you just told TIM that you can't control them, you have to destroy them or unite all synthetic and organic life <- What Reapers have been doing, serving you plates of bio-synthetic death machines made from organics harvested throughout the galaxy.

Sorry, I got sidetracked but to just accept the ending of Mass Effect is like you haven't played the previous games at all. People aren't pissed because they want this game to be god damn bloody brilliant, they are pissed because all of their actions in the games culminates in a select screen at the end. And initially, my post was to incite discussion on the indoctrination theory and suddenly some people take parts of my post out of context and start a pointless argument.

This post has been edited by hahli9: Mar 21 2012, 05:30 PM

This part I even had problems on normal.

I found Kai Leng easier than 4 banshees.
The only reason I beat the 4 banshees is because I found an M-560 Hydra

Good read, it is essentially a very well detailed explanation of why the indoctrination theory is true.

Just to add salt to the wound: http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/17086...ffect-3-endings



This post has been edited by hahli9: Mar 22 2012, 07:39 PM

Yeah, I'm going to play ME1 again. Just to get a feel of the brilliance Bioware once was.


Hawhawhaw

http://drewkarpyshyn.com/c/?p=381

I really can't wait to see his opinions of the ending.
Wow, I don't like how semicolon and 'o' becomes a yawn face not a surprise face.

This post has been edited by hahli9: Mar 22 2012, 08:07 PM

a.k.a drew karpyshyn didn't write it

What the... I don't even...