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 Please think twice before using ABS water pipe

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TStomjason
post Feb 23 2012, 11:01 AM, updated 14y ago

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I just to advised if possible do not use ABS water pipe.Instead please use normal PVC pipe. For PVC pipe please ensure that your contractor using Class 6 and 7.The ABS pipe is not resistance to acid, very easily 'makan' by acid.Attached Image

This post has been edited by tomjason: Feb 24 2012, 12:27 PM
TStomjason
post Feb 23 2012, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Feb 23 2012, 11:37 AM)
and... where does this "Acid" come from ?

your using ABS piping for potable water or industrial use ?
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when i renovated my house, my new extension house all using ABS (ABS – Acrylonitrile - Butadiene - Styrene
ABS is a modern thermoplastic polymer found in everyday applications such as construction site safety helmets.) and i also changed my existing pipe after the meter right to my new extension house (underground). Before i concreted...i pour anti termite treatment (this treatment is acidic), then i concreted the upper portion (underneath is ABS pipe). After a while, water seeping to ground. I hv to break the concrete cement and found that, the acidic cause the ABS leaking. I got the pic but do not know how to post in lowyat). I hv poured 5 location anti termite (underneath is ABS pipe). All 5 location the ABS 'bocor'. Terrible man... i hv break all my concrete cement. Then i had discussion with one plumber', he said he will never to use the ABS.He had experienced before.


Somehow the ABS pipe is more expensive and you have to wait for 12 hours before the glue and the ABS glued together. Not like normal pvc..sekejap can use.


TStomjason
post Feb 23 2012, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(matthewctj @ Feb 23 2012, 12:03 PM)
Just bear in mind, PVC pipe joints are not capable to handling internal water pump, which many are installing these days. The pipe isn't the problem, the joints are.
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My tips : for PVC joint..if you want stronger connection especially if you use water pump..please use special glue about RM30 per tin..do not use normal PVC glue.

One more tips, if you cant find that glue, tips to glue the PVC (so that become stronger)...please clean the pipe with eg thinner before glue and also put glue also the edge of the pipe, not only the around of the pipe before glue.



TQ

This post has been edited by tomjason: Feb 23 2012, 12:12 PM
TStomjason
post Feb 23 2012, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Feb 23 2012, 02:08 PM)
SO what is the best for main pipe? SPecially underground from the water meter to the kicthen?
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the best for underground from meter to kitchen is stainless steel but the price is high. Just use poly or PVC....for PVC not recommend direct expose to sunlight..but for PVC class 6 & 7 should be ok. poly and PVC easy to maintain if leak.

tips : you should run the water pipe along at the fence (under ground) so that when leak easy to maintain. do no run the water pipe under ground through your hall,room,etc...if leak..problem.


for info...my renovation 22x42 feet is at the back of my existing main house. existing house already had 2 water tank..i add another 2 water tank for my new reno house..that means my house got 4 water tanks.

another tips to share: for my kitchen i design sink got 2 pipes..one pipe from water tank , the other one direct from main. So when water shortage..i have no problem washing dishes..biggrin.gif....


This post has been edited by tomjason: Feb 23 2012, 04:17 PM
TStomjason
post Feb 23 2012, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Feb 23 2012, 04:25 PM)
I thought PVC has no problem with UV or the sun but not heat. Heated it melt like icecream. Infact PVC is the best plastic against UV.

ABS plastic will melt with sulpheric acid but ABS is very strong and unlike PVC heat is not a problem but of course you dont use it for hot water piping. ABS can take load and use underground and withstand weight and pressure. ABS is the pipe you must not expose to sun/VU it will disintegrate.

If you need a strong pressure cold pipe use ABS for pump in the wall for example. PVC class 7 will reduce volume flow due to its very thick layer. You dont use stainless steel or copper pipe for cold pipe it is very expensive, not only the pipe the joints as well many times over the price of PVC and ABS.

For meter main going underground to house use poly as it is flexible you can bend and turn around it and there is no joint. For underground never have any joints there. It should be one long pipe from meter to the other end surface up. You will never have problem leaking underground. From there you either use PVC or ABS for internal distribution. If you use PVC or ABS for underground you got to connect and when there are joints there are future troble. Same goes for S steel and copper not only it is expensive you cannot have long pipe but need to join. Joining is always no no no for areas you cannot access.

Use stainless steel joints at the end pipe (example) from wall outlets to connect to your taps, toilets, basin, etc. Becasue these "heads"at one time or other you need to replace the taps and to unscrew or rescrew on PVC and ASB you could use too much force and break the thread.

Copper is easy to install and connect and to disconnect and yet cheaper than stainless steel for hot water supply. But never step on it or bend it walking over. It shouild be on roof top or wall.
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from experience and discussion with plumber sifu..PVC in long run that exposed to sunlight sometime it degrade and sometime you see the color a bit 'turun'/discolor..but with class 6&7 no problem...

for me...after what i had experience and discussion with plumber sifu...will never never use ABS for water pipe....

as long as u put under ground whether is its PVC or poly..there is a possibility to 'pecah' or leak..especially if accidentally dig and break the pipe..

i also used stainless steel connector to connect to 'kepala' pipe..no rust..

This post has been edited by tomjason: Feb 23 2012, 04:42 PM
TStomjason
post Feb 24 2012, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Feb 24 2012, 09:36 AM)
You don't need 2 pipes for your kitchen inorder to backup incase no water. For my home, I install a bypass pipe from the water tank to the water supply pipe for the tank. In the middle of the pipe, instal a check vavle. Than install another check vavle at your meter outside.

When no water come, the water tank pressure is greater than supply. Plus the gravity, the water will flow back to the main pipe. And your whole house have water from your tank include your kitchen. Even you can wash your car.  smile.gif


Added on February 24, 2012, 9:39 am
Sound like a best choice to use this material for the main pipe. Second to stainless steal.
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your design is good......i purpose design my pipe like that cause i want my water tank moving water...i dont want water in my water tank statik for long time.My friend use also that design, good..but the valve something can be faulty. He experienced before but he use in the toilet.

This post has been edited by tomjason: Feb 24 2012, 10:03 AM
TStomjason
post Feb 24 2012, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Feb 24 2012, 10:00 AM)
I have 2 water tank and all my bathroom is connect to the tank. So the water is always moving and no statik. While the kitchen and the garden is main.
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then...it is very good..i just want to know..does your water pressure drop if you open both tap in the kitchen since they are coming from same main.

This post has been edited by tomjason: Feb 24 2012, 10:06 AM
TStomjason
post Feb 24 2012, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Feb 24 2012, 10:29 AM)
The kicthen only have 1 tap. Either the water from the main or tank if no water. If the water pressure is low, than I know there is no water from the main. Cause pressure from the tank sure is lower than the main.

When the main have water, it will shut off the vavle from the water tank. Cause the main pressure is greater than the tank. The whole auto system is using the pressure to run.
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you are good in plumbing...smile.gif....actually i design 2 water taps in my kitchen, one from tank and the others from main so that i can use both taps and sink bowl at same time....that why i dont use the valve system, if use valve system cannot open both taps cause same source,pressure drop.

cost wise..not so expensive..add 1 or 2 pipe only...

This post has been edited by tomjason: Feb 24 2012, 10:59 AM
TStomjason
post Feb 24 2012, 12:03 PM

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want opinion from you all, should i change outside pipe before meter with stainless steel as Syabas did not replace unless the pipe rusted (my old pipe is using GI about 10 already) cause i plan to install rocket filter.

TQ
TStomjason
post Feb 24 2012, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Feb 24 2012, 01:00 PM)
Your way of piping save one piping and the best is it is auto no need to shut off main supply to have tank supply. But dont you have problem with low pressure with one way valves and the valves after some time like 3 to 5 years get jammed and need replacement?


Added on February 24, 2012, 1:07 pm
No problem changing "syabas" pipe outside before meter. Syabas shoiuld have replace all the GI pipes that cause dirty rusty water. When there is no water supply and when supply resume all the rust will be flush out into our house that is why we need whole house filter.

You should choose other than the sand rocket filter. Somehow the tiny sand will get into your house piping, into water tank, heater tank, blocking taps, etc. I replaced my sand filter with simply cheap acrylic filters for the whole house.
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TQ..where to find the acrylic filter?...got pic?


TStomjason
post Feb 27 2012, 08:03 AM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Feb 25 2012, 01:52 PM)
Hi Jin,

We are out of topic. Anyway a promise is a promise, see pix below
[attachmentid=2703228]click pix 1 to see waterflow direction on the pix
[attachmentid=2703254]

From the pix you can see there suppose to have 3 filters but I cut off one. 2 is enough. I also have a pressure meter installed to check water pressure how much it drop when turned on taps in the house. usually drop less than 10psi from 40 to 35 or from 60 to 55.

The filter is 3/4 inch pipe female, to connect it to the flexible hose I use a reducer to 1/2 inch male. The reason I use this type of stainless steel flexible hose is because the diameter is as big as the copper tube and will have better flow if I were to use the normal cheaper flexible hose. Look at the pix below and compare.
[attachmentid=2703242][attachmentid=2703246]
[attachmentid=2703248][attachmentid=2703250]
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TQ steve...thanks for sharing.


Added on February 27, 2012, 8:11 am
QUOTE(JinXXX @ Feb 25 2012, 02:03 PM)
@stevie8 , thanks

back to the ABS piping.. euratech piping says usually ABS pipe is used for chemicals and etc eg acids and all

@tomjason , your abs pipe is what rating or specifications one ?
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i will check my ABS type..if possible i take the photo of the ABS after eaten by acid.



This post has been edited by tomjason: Feb 27 2012, 08:11 AM
TStomjason
post Feb 27 2012, 01:29 PM

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sometime i can post pic but most of the time cannot post pic in lowyat. Sifu2 how to post pic?


TStomjason
post Mar 8 2012, 11:26 AM

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just create flikr account..upload my master room toilet..


user posted image


user posted image
TStomjason
post Mar 8 2012, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Mar 8 2012, 11:52 AM)
link tak jalan ah ?
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yalah...donno ..tak jalan..try reduce the size..
TStomjason
post Mar 8 2012, 12:31 PM

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i upload my master toilet before and after..all using ABS..just waiting ..for how long the ABS will leak... sweat.gif


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TStomjason
post Mar 8 2012, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Mar 8 2012, 01:05 PM)
if the joints are properly done won't leak one...

i see the sockets didnt put SS sockets later if next time u change don't over tighten else the abs threads will kena makan smile.gif
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i put Stainless steel socket to 1/2 inches...ya...SS need more white tape...one toilet kena already..after completed tiles, then leak..the tile had to break to tighthen the socket..i use ABS size 3/4 inches then used socket 1/2 inches
TStomjason
post Mar 8 2012, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Mar 8 2012, 01:50 PM)
socket standard is all 1/2 inch unless need special reason to use big one eg connect to tank.. connect to pump connect o main valve..

3/4 inch pipe hmm usually the main one is 3/4 and the branch off is 1/2 inch only..

why your plumber choose abs and not poly or upvc or pvc ? his reasoning is ?
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i dont hire plumber..i m the plumber..just hire indo..i m the supervisor..i design from A to Z...i thought that ABS is good since it is new.....until i experience it..that why i advised forumer donot use ABS....



i design my house from main using 1 1/4 inches pipe then branch out to 2 to 1 inches pipes..i got 4 tank2...2 at main house, 2 at new house..the reason i m using 3/4 inches in toilet is i hv sufficient water volume...

with all these design..my shower head need not any pump....no problem with water volume and pressure... thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by tomjason: Mar 8 2012, 02:18 PM
TStomjason
post Mar 8 2012, 02:45 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Mar 8 2012, 02:41 PM)
Would the ABS overkill for bathroom or others low pressure tap? I guess PVC cheaper than ABS right?

How you tiles the wall when the pipe not inside the brick?
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yaa....ABS expensive but quality suck.....i did not have pressure problem for my toilet cause i use from tank 1 inches then reduce to 3/4 inches..i bought shower head ....wow..water volume and pressure good..no need pump... rclxms.gif

i install the pipe inside the brick...

This post has been edited by tomjason: Mar 8 2012, 02:46 PM
TStomjason
post Mar 8 2012, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Mar 8 2012, 02:45 PM)
But if you got hot water, from 3/4 to half in you got to wait 2 time longer for hot water to come out, waste a lot of water.

Main from meter is 3/4 inch pipe and at the meter it is 1/2 inch. No point having 1 1/4 then to 2 inch it wont increase pressure, waste big pipe and joints of big pipe is more expensive and dig deeper to tanam. It sholuld be 3/4 inch all the way till it branch out to every outlet point and 1 inch to pump and from pump you can use 1 inch and branch out to half inch to every outlet or from tank you can use big pipe since the pressure is low.
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my design is like this...a bit difficult to explain...


from meter 1 1/4 inches pipe then branch out into 2 branches...i branch to water tank old house, other to water tank new house..each branch is 1 inches..in this way i do lose water volume when both to water tank at new and old house at simulatenously...

and i do not use pump...so far my toilet..water volume and pressure good...

This post has been edited by tomjason: Mar 8 2012, 02:53 PM
TStomjason
post Mar 8 2012, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Mar 8 2012, 02:57 PM)
so your land got 2 houses la.. is it ? kampung house or what.. why so nice can have 2 side by side one ?
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my land space is big but the house itself is small..main house is only 23x43 (panjang)...so at the back of the house i extended the new house..so i dont disturb existing main house..cost i already budget..cause if want to renovated all..no budget...next if i got budget..then i renovated the main house..without disturbed the newly extended house...so my master bedroom is at the abck of the house.

my house land size is 50x100 feets

my house plan.... smile.gif...using Sweet Home 3D software.

This post has been edited by tomjason: Mar 9 2012, 03:56 PM


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