Hi Guys,

Just got my plan approved ...it's time to do it!!

By the way, I just wanna ask, initially i was thinking of upgrading to 3Phase power, however due to try budgetary problem, I m trying to cut this out is possible.

I was told that I may not need to. Below are the ACs that I have planned , one of the wireman told me that single phase is still sufficient:-



1) 1HP AC - Ground Floor Room
2) 2HP AC - Living Hall
3) 1HP AC - Upper Room
4) 1HP AC - Upper Room 2
5) 1.5HP AC - Master Room

Total : 5 ACs with total of 6.5HP


Of cos at night there will only be max 3 ACs on (all the upper rooms only)




I am definitely rewiring the entire house but may not want to 3 Phase. Appreciate if anyone could advise.


Thx

if u use heavy machinery, lots of ac, bla bla bla things that use enormous electrical power then yes 3 phase
if wireman said ur setting sufficient, then its sufficient^^

TNB website recommend changing to 3 phase on household with more than 3 a/cond

Hmm..that is what they recommended...will take into consideration

What is the benifit to change to 3phase?

If you have more than 1 water heater, and use it concurrent when all the 3 a/c is switch on you maybe hitting > 10K Watt. That will be better to use 3 Phase.

If you know know the max watt draw is < 10 K watt, you don't really need 3 phase.

i have 3 instant water heater, 7 aircon, and other appliances like computer, microwave, oven, refrigerator, washing machine, tv etc. I still using single phase....=.=

i know i wont open all at the same time..if one day really happen, it will be my nightmare

Happen in my mother house once,

2 Instant water heater switch on, 3 A/C switch on, + TV + 2 fridge + other items. DB box fuse blow. Got to temporary "Kung Fu" the fuse to use while i go out buy replacement. My mom house using old school DB box all fused, no reset-able MCB.

Newer house should be able to reset.

But for my new house, will have to be careful, cause I run two independent DB Box.

I will try to convert to 3 phase in the future if the process is easy without rewiring my whole house...if really can be done by just changing meter and DB box, it will be nice...

renovation and furniture + appliances already make me poor like hell

i dunno where you get the info from that 5 AC or even 3 AC need 3 phase for sure.

its just not true in general. it will depend on the AC's startup Amp-uage. Simple maths lah ... 1 HP use how many Amp to start? that depends on tha wattage - take a note and divide by 115 then you have the amps - but usually the max amp is stated on the sticker. for example a 1 HP inverter A/C from panasonic draws max 6 Amps - much less under partial load and they dont start all at the same moment in time either! then add all the max. Amps to see potential max. load. if this is below 63 Amps then absolutely no prob at all. Even if above you wont get into trouble if you KNOW your concurrent consumption will not exceed 63 Amps.

real life example: total of 8 HP A/Cs, PC, three fridges, oven, hood, more appliances = single phase no problem and i always have all of the A/Cs running. i can safely on the oven on full blast (3000 Watts over thats a major sucker!) and no problem.

single phase can tahan 63 Amps with appropriate fuse. so there you go.

So actually no benifit to upgrade 3phase. Just profit the TNB.

Well said....good job~

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Added on January 13, 2012, 10:58 amNo matter how, if got budget, change lar...I don't change because I don't have budget~

This post has been edited by tiensong: Jan 13 2012, 10:58 AM

Change for what if evrything within the Amp. Unless you tell me the bill can be cheaper if in 3phase.

Even got budget, belanja you better.

at least you don't need to worry when turn on all the appliances mah....haha

Worry your pocket. TNB will be happy too.

haha....

Change 3 phase not only just do the DB box. Unless you already pre plan and have your DB box wire for future 3 Phase.

Inside your DB box, if only got 15 MCB, how you want to distribute the incoming 3 hot wires? (RYB)

Than If TNB don't allow house owner to put meter inside the house, house owner need to hack and put outside, beside the gate pillar. More work.

how i know my DB box is wired for 3 phase or not? check which part?

What to worry? Just a fuse blow.

Actually come to think about it, i got more direct power socket than 3 phases house. I got total of 30+ socket, and 80% of it are direct to fuse box.

Walau! your DB box few meter long? He...

my db box has three rows...each rows around 15-20...

I got 2 DB box

Post #348
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1920588/+340

My DB has 3 rows of MCB with 10a, 20a and 32a and main fuse 60A single phase never have problem.

2 x 1hp aircond, 1 x 2hp aircond, 1 x 2.5hp aircond
electric cooker max 3000 watt or 13amp.
2 refrigerators
1 rice cooker, 1 big electric oven, 1 small electric oven, 1 microwave oven, 1 cooler making ice cool water max 1000watt, no water heater (using solar), blender, potable electric cooker for steamboat, etc you name it I almost got it
more than 100 18watt down lights, 10 fans, many ceiling lights, hanging light, lights on fancy fan, heater for piano, water pump for pond runing 24hrs
TV, dvd, astro, home theather audio, notebook x 2, tv for ps2 and many more.

Most have to be on when have party, bbq + steamboat, open house, especially all the down light, ceiling fans, all the aircond, audio visual. video game to keep kids occupaid, cooking food, etc. nothing happened.

3 phase only needed if your peak load is more than 10kW or 15kW (i forgot which one), usually household appliances only state max load of a few kW but rarely hit that max load.

Another reason to use 3 phase is for the big 3 phase AC motor like those compressor in a 24kW chiller system.

This post has been edited by Hornsen: Jan 13 2012, 05:47 PM

Unless your AC motor is running 415VAC. Otherwise nothing is gain. And the advantage is the wire cost is cheaper for 415V than the 240VAC.

Got, 3HP and above A/C, and heavy duty Oven.

I'm not sure about it, just hope that your MCB is not faulty and can't trip during overload.

Just a side note, MCB, should be rated below the carrying amp of the cable. Seen few house having 60amp MCB on a 10mmsq cable circuit.

I don't know about the cable rating. The house wiring was done by qualified electricians during renovation. They used two set of cables colored with red, black and green. one set is thick with double insulation and has six small copper wires in it for power point, a/c. The other set is thinner single insulation and have 3 core copper wires for lights. The light points are pull to 10amp. Power points, a/c to 20amp and 32amp.

According to the electricians, the power were split and shared and unlikely we would have power on all of them at one time. For example 2 power points upstairs and one in kitchen and one in hall, so I cannot be using the 2 power points upstair and using another in the hall and same time the kitchen that particular one is in used. Even with 2/3 persons not all the 4 could be used or used up to its maximum 13amp x 4. I could be using hair dryer upstair, someone else using another charging handphone, wife use it to boil water in kitchen and the hall tv is on. Somehow very unlikely all using high power at the same time like this example. A/C are connected to 32A and could be shared with downstairs power points. Ligtht points are low powered are connected to the 10amp points. The 20amp are connected to fewer power points or one mcb to one aircond point. As long as the total usage of the connected points not excedding the MCB rating and if exceeded it trips. And so long as the total usage at any one time not exceeding 60amp which is 60 x 240 = 14,400 or 14.4KW for the whole house. When I have party I switch on all the down lights and some wall lights. I also tested all MCB tripping. it tripped mean all ok. So, to me is a normal house need no 3 phase unless you are supplied with less than 60amp or 63amp. Some apartment were supplied with 40amp. Apartments are usually smaller unit you need no so much power and cannot accommodate too many people.

3 phase maybe for big house, bangalore with many house members and lots of quarrels and envy... hahahah... and when the old man die, explode, not the electric power exploded, the people in it

This post has been edited by stevie8: Jan 13 2012, 11:07 PM

3 phase db box is much bigger than single phase. Anyway your house internal wiring must be able to support 3 phase in order to upgrade in the future.

Am more concern on the incomming cable from TNB to cut-off fuse, kwh meter to your DB.

Just for info on typical wiring works practice in Malaysia.
Double insulation mostly used if the cable is not intended to be run in conduit or trunking. Single insulation cable, by law, should be run in conduit/trunking.

Typical practice, lighting point use 1.5mmsq cable, power point use 2.5mmsq., 30amp MCB, i prefer 4mmsq or 2.5mmsq in ring circuit. These mention cables should have 7 strands of copper conductor. 3 strands, is a 1.0mmsq or 1.25mmsq which, by right, used for extra low voltage application not for lighting. Sad to say, i do found 1.0mmsq cable mixed with 1.5mmsq cable install for my house lighting point by the developer's contractor.

AC current calculation should be Iac=P/(V*PF) , where, Iac= AC current(amps), P=power(W), V=voltage=230(volt), PF=Power Factor=0.85

The device with the test button is the RCCB (ELCB). Push test button monthly to ensure the spring mechanism works. There's other test for its functionality.

Thanks but errr...the current calculation is so confusing... especially the PF... what's that??? Can give one example?

I have my electric hob (one ceramic and one induction cookers) supplied by a 3 or 4 strands copper conductor to its switch. The max of combine ceramic and induction is 2400watts. will the cable get hot and get burned? The hob fella says a 13amp point is ok. but the live cable has only 3 or 4 strands of copper conductor to it. Further more it is linked to one of my refrigerator to one 32amp mcb. I dont know how exactly the circuit is routed to the mcb from the hob power point and the freezer power point if it is two seperate circuits or one circuit. when I trip the mcb both the hob and freezer go off.

2400watt / 240v = 10amp. So, 13amp is sufficient

It will be a long story if discuss on PF, what you need to know about PF is we assume it as 0.85 since this is the minimum value before TNB start issue penalty for power factor correction(only applicable to industrial area)

I=P/V is for calculating DC current.
AC current have to consider the power factor and for three phase load, divide another root 3 to have equivalent single phase voltage.

Bro stevie8, since you have a qualified electrician work for you, i suppose it won't be much of a problem since he will be fully responsible for the elecrical installation should any problem arises.

If you still feel uncomfortable, leave out all the calculation, go feel the socket/plug/MCB when the appliances is turn on. If it feel hot, chances are they are operating above rated value. Do take pre-caution not to touch any LIVE part.

Another conservative advice, allow 30% spare from the rated current to cater for In-Rush current, voltage drop, conductor deterioation, operation above operating temperature, etc.

Bro stevie8..
Interested on your pond water pump. Is it submersible type? Can i have the brand and model use then?
Thanks..

Thanks a lot ppl...a lot of input here...anyway i will keep this topic alive a while more for discussion sake..


Thx once again.

Thanks bro PKY. got to touch and feel the socket, plug and MCB. I should on the cookers to the max and same time make sure the freezer is running as it is auto on/off. To do this I think is to open the freezer doors and let the cold air out and fill it with some warm water so that the freezer automatically switches itself on to cool the water and make ice.

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Added on January 14, 2012, 3:05 pmThe brand is Viper china made. 15000 liters per hour or 15ton per hour flow rate, consuming 220watt tested with watt meter. Bought at RM450. Do not underestimate the reliability of china made product. Some are real good for money. Do you know that the american are buying China TV, DVD, 2 to 3 times cheaper than other branded products and in a way lower the cost of living and lifting the standard of living for the american. With same money can buy more.

Before that I had Tsurumi pump Jap technology bought at RM700 lasted me only a year and "kong". Sent it to repair under warranty and another year later broken again. To repair it cost me RM400!!! Then I was introduced this Viper for RM450 and for more than 3 yrs already it is still running quietly 24/7. the pump is submersible. just make sure it does not run dry. By the way Viper looks like copy cat of Tsurumi yet last. We koi/pond hobbyists no longer use Italian pump anymore. Power consumption is killing 5 to 10 times high for same output. German pump are good too but price wise cant match china made. You can buy 2 to 3 for 1. The logic is if broken buy another and will outlast 1 german.

Tsurumi data: 12 tan/hr, 250watt. See the chinese made it higher output and yet consume less power. It is not just cheap labour but if they want to make it last it will. the data were provided by koi forumers with live test with watt meter. the watt meter also china mali.

If you want to play water + electricity we advise to add a separate RCCB with the lowest amp rating before the pond so that we dont kill the beloved prized fish and ourselves and kids like to play with pond water when you are not around. Believe me some will jump into the pond when no adults are around that is the most dangerous time as no one can help them when they get into troble.

This post has been edited by stevie8: Jan 14 2012, 03:08 PM

**Water pump**
thanks stevie8.. Im looking for the 24h submersible pump to.. 450rm is is very reasonoble price... Where can i get those pump like yours?

Pudu, Jalan pasar. One fish shop next to a bakuteh shop.

see pix/map attached.