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 Fundsupermart - Invest Globally and Profitably, Discussion on investment through FSM

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ben3003
post Nov 19 2012, 04:30 PM

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haiz no more fund investment corner >< may i know wat is the different of buying from public mutual agent and also those maakl agent and website like fundsupermart? Is it sales charge means the money they charge u when u invest money? how about when u wan to sell? any charges at fundsupermart?
ben3003
post Feb 10 2013, 11:29 PM

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hi ppl, i wanna know that why FSM sales charge is lower than other ppl? is there any hidden fee? wat does it mean by Annual Expense Ratio? how about Trustee Fee? how they count? Cos i see other website like Hwang Asia Quantum sales charge is 5.5% with 1.5% annual management fee while at FSM is 1% sales charge, 1.5% annual management fee, 0.07% trustee fee.
ben3003
post Feb 11 2013, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 10 2013, 11:57 PM)
Management fee is charged by the Fund Manager to the fund, and its the same whether u buy thru FSM, bank or direct thru HwangIM. Trustee fee is charged by the fund's Trustee to the fund, and its the same whoever u buy your units from.

Why lower sales charge?

The following is my answer. Of course, if u want a definitive answer, why not ask FSM direct? icon_rolleyes.gif

The bulk of the SC actually goes to the agent. With FSM, they have NO agents to maintain. And being an online distributor, they do not need to maintain physical offices throughout the country to serve clients' needs (they only have 2 offices, 1 at KL and 1 at Penang). So, the answer is - vast savings in manpower costs and overhead costs as compared to the "traditional" UT distributors like Public Mutual and CIMB Wealth Advisors. wink.gif

Annual Expense Ratio is calculated by = Total expenses / Average fund size

U can see how it is calculated in the prospectus and annual/interim financial statements
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oh thanks for the info. So they owes show u return % is actually after they deduct everything, or before? I cannot understand that management fee cost is calculated and accrued daily from the NAV of the Fund, trustee fee also like this, mean it offset from the NAV everyday? so u dont have to actually calculate the return then deduct again in the end to calculate net return? Sorry abit blur but i need to know something about how they actually calculate the ROI. Sales charge is quite straight forward but other fee is abit tricky..
ben3003
post Feb 11 2013, 10:28 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 11 2013, 12:13 AM)
It's all accounting.

Let me use a simple example to illustrate.

ABC Berhad
Fixed asset = RM1 mil office building
Current asset = Share investments (let's assume RM1 mil at 01-Feb-2013, RM900K at 10-Feb-2013)
Staff = 2 managing directors with monthly salary of RM10K each
Share capital = 1 mil ordinary shares of RM2 each

NAV of ABC Berhad at 10-Feb-2013
= RM1 mil + RM900K - (RM10K x 2) / 28 x 10
= RM1,892,857

NAV per unit i.e. share
= RM1,892,857 / 1 mil shares
= RM1.89

Even though salary i.e. management expenses is paid once a month, it is accrued on daily basis for accounting of NAV
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oh ok.. so basically wat should we looking for in terms of return %? Normally wat we see is increase in NAV per unit, so tat means if i invest at NAV per unit 1.89, tomorrow become 1.90, so i earn 0.01 per unit? There is an annual management fee and trustee fee, it is already accounted for in the final NAV listed daily right? So i dont have to count for it myself if let say i wan to know how much ROI i got in the end. Correct?
ben3003
post Feb 12 2013, 07:24 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 11 2013, 10:34 PM)
Correct nod.gif

To illustrate further, let's say u have

Fund ABC 3-years average returns: 5% p.a.
Average MER: 1.6%

Fund XYZ 3-years average returns: 5% p.a.
Average MER: 2.2%

It means that XYZ's gross investment returns are actually higher than ABC, but the net returns are dragged down by higher expenses relative to ABC.
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ok thank you very much, got some picture about it already biggrin.gif
ben3003
post Feb 12 2013, 06:36 PM

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wat is EM+Apex J? i know APex J is asia pacific excluding japan..
ben3003
post Feb 13 2013, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 12 2013, 09:32 PM)
My suggestion is, if you're new to UT investing, better start with a relatively small portfolio, don't start with too many different funds.

I presume that you are starting from zero. As such, why not pick a global equity fund? Leave the region allocation (which region got better growth potential? how much % to allocate to each region?) to the Fund Manager.

One global sukuk/bond fund (I suggest around 30%) -
AmDynamic Sukuk (a new fund, hence not much historical data to do comparison and evaluation)

One pure MYR sukuk/bond fund (I suggest around 40%) -
AmBon Islam (nothing exciting, but it gets the job done. Well, as someone said, let your equity funds deliver the adrenaline rush tongue.gif )

One Malaysian equity fund (I suggest around 10%) -
Kenanga Syariah Growth (keep minimal allocation to this until the General Election risk is resolved)

One global equity fund (I suggest around 20%)

A 70/30 portfolio should be good enough for a newbie. smile.gif

And with that, Pacific Dana Dividen comes to mind.
http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/fundi...number=MYPMFDDF

The attached chart shows how Pacific DD fared for the past 3 years against EI APSE and MSCI World index:
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Bro, can u give some similar portfolio for newcomer that is non-Muslim based? I would like to know, let say i want to do inter house switching, from bond to equity fund, is it possible? Oh nvm i see that it is possible but with sales charge.. If i switch from let's say Hwang select bond fund to kenanga growth fund, the sales charge only apply at kenanga side, correct? Is Hwang a good fund house? I plan to go to the same fund house so no much trouble switching and less charges..

This post has been edited by ben3003: Feb 13 2013, 09:49 AM
ben3003
post Feb 13 2013, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 13 2013, 09:57 AM)
Inter switching? Then u need to look for funds within the same fund house.

A bit difficult...cos the "star" funds are all from different fund houses doh.gif

Take your pick, do your own mix and match tongue.gif

Global bond
Hwang Select Bond
OSK-UOB Emerging Markets Bond
RHB Asian Total Return

Pure MYR bond
OSK-UOB Income Fund (up to 30% in Asian bonds)
AmBond
Kenanga Bond

Global equity
Pacific Global Stars
Pacific Dana Dividend (Shariah-compliant, heavy Malaysian focus)
Alliance Global Equities
OSK-UOB Global Equity Yield
RHB Global Fortune

Malaysian equity
Kenanga Growth
Eastspring Investments Equity Income
Hwang Select Opportunity (up to 30% globally, Asian focus)
Hwang Select Dividend (up to 30% globally, Asian focus)
Yea, most funds got no exit fee. Like in this case, u will kena charge at the "buy" side, Kenanga.

Yea, HwangIM is a good fund house. nod.gif
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kk thanks for the list.. Is Hwang Asia Quantum considered global equity? performance wise looks interesting..

ben3003
post Feb 13 2013, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 13 2013, 10:08 AM)
Don't go too heavy on AQ, cos it's technically an Asia Ex-Japan small-mid cap equity fund. U can have it as a smaller % of your portfolio, though.
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oh ok... so for a newcomer, i dont have like 10-20k as a starting, i wanna save money while investing, maybe i just can prepare 1-2k per month for now as a starting, but i wanted to start now becos the earlier u start, the better u start, else i gonna just spend the money on something else lol. So normally which kind of fund should i be looking at first? I saw that u said earlier go for global equity, then diversify later?
ben3003
post Feb 13 2013, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 13 2013, 10:21 AM)
Start with a basic portfolio of 1 MYR bond fund, 1 global/Asian bond fund, 1 Malaysian equity fund and 1 global equity fund. U can also include an Emerging Markets equity fund or Asia Ex-Japan equity fund like Hwang AQ if u like.

Start simple, then as u gain more experience and more comfortable juggling your portfolio, u can have more region-specific funds. FSM Recommended Portfolios are a good references to start with.

1-2K a month is A LOT. Start with the minimum initial investment, then slowly build up your portfolio value to even out the entry cost. U don't wanna dump at one go only to find out u entered at a high point. laugh.gif
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oh ok.. i seriously hope i can really resist spending and save up 2k per month to invest lol.. yeah cos starting is like i only got 1-2k now, i only can enter 2 funds, so i have to decide which kind of fund to go into 1st, maybe i shud try 1 bond+1 equity 1st. then next month only add another 2.
ben3003
post Feb 13 2013, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 13 2013, 10:28 AM)
DUMP ALL YOUR EXCESS MONEY IN CASH MANAGEMENT FUND 1ST thumbup.gif
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wat is cash management fund? ><
ben3003
post Feb 13 2013, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 13 2013, 10:38 AM)
sorry biggrin.gif i only looking at equity fund and bond lol.. not so pro yet.. slow slow lai biggrin.gif But if i wanna invest my 1-2k monthly, that can consider excessive money? I tot excessive money is like i got 2k, i invest liao 1.5k, then 500 dunno wat to do lol.. but why not i put all 2k into my portfolio?
ben3003
post Feb 13 2013, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 13 2013, 10:44 AM)
This is what I do:
- every month after budgeting for cash needs for the month, I dump ALL excess cash in Cash Management Fund
- all purchases of funds be it bond or equity are paid by Cash Management Fund

Now go study what is CMF from the links provided...I won't entertain further "basic" questions on it. tongue.gif
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oh ok boss biggrin.gif i roughly know what it does already biggrin.gif but i am abit confusing.... it says cannot do intra house switch, so i cannot switch from this OSK cash management fund to let say osk global equity yield fund? And also, if i do switching to other fund, the charge is normall the sales charge like normally i buy the fund right?

This post has been edited by ben3003: Feb 13 2013, 11:26 AM
ben3003
post Feb 13 2013, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 13 2013, 11:54 AM)
I'd say leave the market timing to the Fund Manager, they'll kaotim the entry/exit timing for u. HwangIM is managing the downside risks of this fund fairly well. wink.gif
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wat u mean by entry/exit timing? Means i just invest the fund and let the fund manager to manage it for us? Then what are the criteria to choose a fund then.. it looks like it boils down to how good the fund manager is at timing the market..
ben3003
post Feb 14 2013, 08:37 AM

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i wanna ask, the recommended portfolio, why aggresive have more loss than others? i dont know how they actually calculated.
ben3003
post Feb 14 2013, 09:56 PM

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I am currently doing research on global equity fund, i saw that most of the fund are having the same trend in terms of return. In a 5 yrs graph, i can see everyone dipped during 2008 economy crisis, then later another dip at 2010 april to aug, then 1 more during 2011 aug to dec. I would like to ask whether anyone can recall roughly what happened back then? becos i was still studying, doesnt pay much attention on economy ><

I back traced some news, i believe 2010 should be something to do with european crisis, but i would like to know why and how the NAV of a fund will drop, so i can have a rough idea on entry and exit timing biggrin.gif
ben3003
post Feb 15 2013, 12:45 AM

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oh ok thanks for those info.. i see even some global bond fund does having sharp drop during those happenings..
ben3003
post Feb 15 2013, 09:09 PM

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QUOTE(Hapeng @ Feb 15 2013, 05:59 PM)
guys I have read and re-read the discussion but i still am not sure what to make of it so I'm just gona ask.

In the View Holdings page, lets say I have Kenanga Growth, the cost is 2500, current value 2469.96. Which means a loss of -30.04 right?
With the new member 1% charge, 2500/1.01 = 2475.25,
so have i made a 30.04 loss or a (2475.25-2469.96) 21.71 loss?

So my question is, does the 2469.96 already reflect the 1% sales charge? and does that mean that everytime you buy a fund you the View Holdings page will show a 1% loss?
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why u invest 2500 but current value only 2469.96? is the current value after minus sales charge?

ben3003
post Feb 15 2013, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(Hapeng @ Feb 15 2013, 09:18 PM)
based on what master accountant says,
it would be the 1% sales charge + a little loss on the fund ba
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oh kk.. i tot is like u pay 2500, then u get 2469.96 before deduct sales charge..
ben3003
post Feb 15 2013, 10:45 PM

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oh nice way biggrin.gif btw, wat is short duration fixed income fund? any example of it?

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