is there a database of black list tenants
i want to add mine there soon. vomit blood one
if he reading, better pay up.

I googled, can find this only
http://blacklisttenants.blogspot.com/

This post has been edited by airline: Dec 12 2011, 05:58 PM

Same here... found out my tenant fled the country leaving behind some furniture and outdated electrical items. Will be breaking into the unit and sell everything to recover outstanding rent.

Very sian chase for rental...
Mine Is local by the way

This post has been edited by airline: Dec 12 2011, 05:56 PM

Last I heard my tenant borrowed money from many Ah Longs... luckily didn't use my unit address or else die already (clean red paint on weekly basis).

i got Dr. XXX as tenant works at KPJ

rent due on 15th but only pays after 7th of another month.

last month had to bar key card to make him pay.

even so called professionals are pain in the butt when it comes to paying rents on time.

This post has been edited by spikeman: Dec 12 2011, 06:09 PM

mine is a so called professional as well. speaks good english, sms also fluent, payment like shit.

cantonese call this "si man pai lui"

Someone should start a database and key in all the IC numbers of the bad tenants. Next time do a search and voila!

BTW, are these tenants renting a room >1k in value?

the description is too severe for those who delays in paying rent....

sometimes tenants have problem or not free and some like to stretch their money to the fullest.....

you guys case are consider not as serious as mine.

I helping my mom to collect monthly rental on her behalf, the malay family really giving me hard time.

first tenant also malay family, fled with 4months rental plus the house got damage by them, nail that hammered into the wall to hang portrait, we had told them they are not allow to do so. sigh

the current malay family, own us up to 3months rental and keep giving excuse saying that they haven have collection from their business, thus not able to pay the rental.

how can you tell me you got not enough money to pay, when you bough 2 cars within a period of 3months. 1st new car the pajero sport and follow by Estima ACR50 model. 2 car add up together easily come up to 300k.

crap and bullshit man, cheap rental not able to pay, but hundred over thousand car can afford to buy not one unit but two.

i raised my voice to ask them when are they going to make payment to us for the rental, the very night police car came to visit me. (Reason given, said i threaten to murder them)

Stay in police station for 6hours....

sigh

This post has been edited by FerrariST: Dec 14 2011, 04:04 PM

I have bad experience with tenants too. I wonder is it legal to get building management to cut water/electricity supply if tenants refuse to pay up ? Honestly speaking, I feel there is very little a landlord can do with bad tenants. The proper procedure is terribly painful for landlord.

This post has been edited by puchongite: Dec 14 2011, 04:25 PM

where is the list?

I think we should start one here.

i think it's quite reckless for you to be singling these people out and labeling them as Malays. Shit tenants can be of any colour or race. I am having a problem with this couple too. 2 months havent paid rent. But driving nice car. it was also dodgy the way they agreed to renting the house. mula2 ckp office pindah bukit jalil. then last minute x jadi. I suspect they are not paying because they are leaving. And it looks like they are succeeding since no action taken as we speak and I am overseas!

Reading all the posts, its obvious u all are being too soft (hearted) & the tenant senses that easily if they are the veterans in this game -> game over. We need to compile a TO DO & NOT TO DO list, the guerilla warfare manual for landlords.

agreed, any lawyers here mind to share a trick or two?

for me, my apartment's management office told me before, if the tenant fail to pay rental, we can request the management to cut the water.. without water, i guess it is hard for u to live inside.

but so far my tenant is quite good, at most delay by 2-3 days only.

cannot cut water ...

You sound awfully confident, I am not sure if you are black society taiko or what, but I always have opinion that there is not much a landlord could do. If you follow proper procedure, by the time you could get some real action taken, the tenants would have owed you a few months of rental.

Can be done but not a wise choice, you have to pay a fee to get them to "re-supply" back your water.

What other wiser choices ? It's better to do this than you scold, shout, curse, swear .....or write legal registered letters, reminders .....

U said it yrself.. there r solutions out there. I'm sorry if i ruffled some feathers cos i am myself really agitated when my tenants give me extra things to worry about so i really prepare myself, sit down to figure out what might happen b4 things happen.
Is it legal or right for tenants to default on their TA ? No right, and yet they can get away with it, how come ?
Reading azizi's book on landlording might help in some way.
Besides that, reading up on problems feedback'ed by landlords in forums & getting your personalised response strategy in place B4 things happen will head off many loopholes exploited by prospective tenants.
The law is the framework, the TA is the backbone, but there are many other things & ways out there to deal with tenants that comprise the tentacles.

Guerilla tactic of dealing with tenants, amongst others :

TO DO
- be stern & serious 1st time meeting prospective tenants
- do HOMEWORK on reworking your TA, learning from your past bad encounters & reword the TA
-

NOT TO DO
- too accomodative/smile too much/undecisive eg "uh... ah ...maybe.."
-

Other landlords pls feel free to share ..

Fair comments from the post above.

Regarding cutting utilities, I think it's effective but I am not 100% convinced that it shall be legal to do it for standard tenancy agreement. I think I shall include this clause, "the landlord reserves the right to cut the water and electricity supply to the premise if there is late payment of rental more than 1 month, and the costs to resume the utilities shall be bond by the tenant".

Yes, that should scare the pants off the tenant if they thinking of any hanky panky, would be good if any lawyer can confirm legal or not, but legal or not at least tenant knows we are ready to fight Also bold the words but 1 mth is quite long. Must have some other stopgap measure in between, mayb charge late interest, call tenant daily, enter the property look see. .

I would like to comments on what you suggested :-

1. Enter the premise - You need to be very careful about this. You might get yourself into BIG trouble. The fellow can make police report of valuable lost after you entered the premise. Please don't ever do that !

2. Call tenant daily - A lot of energy needed. If you are friendly on the phone, he will ignore you. If you are hostile or you threaten him, he will record the conversation and then charge you for threatening him. Police will go after you !

3. Charge late payment interest - You can charge anything, he just refuses to pay. Take him to the court you have to lose more money.

Cheers.

I presumed that the statement is useful, but sadly if not mistaken, it couldn't be legally implied. Please do correct if i'm wrong.

Haha I am myself not so confident about it too. We need the lawyers here.

Our laws are currently protecting the tenants, you can't even touch a strand of their hair, or else you will have big trouble, that's why I keep saying there is nothing much a landlord can do. If you follow proper procedure, you will waste a lot of time and money.

This post has been edited by puchongite: Dec 16 2011, 03:27 PM

Nope, the problem is not the law wholly. The problem is landlords are afraid of the law

A former DG of law enforcement agency said in a talk - there is a opposite contradictory dimension between law considerations & commercial considerations. U just have to know how to go about it without breaking the law

Eg. No deposits allowed in selling houses. Tell me, how many court cases have been brought to court in this ? ALL developers would have been out of business if the law is followed !

Study the law & make smart moves.
Not..
Study the law & sit still.

You are precisely correct, the tenants are not afraid of law but the landlords are. You can sue the tenants pants off, you can't get them to bankruptcy, the sum of money involved is too little. You waste a lot more time and money. But if the police put the landlord into lock up for a few hours, he will curse mother and grandmother for at least a week !

Seriously it's your choice, whether you want to go above "proper procedure". Like the case of you say you want to enter the premise, let me be a bit more blunt, you are already breaking the law !

No, the landlord is not
Learn from how some landlords are successful, as i said, azizi's book is a good start. After that is adapting from one's bad xperience.
Have u wondered why some landlords consider property rental such an enjoyable past time ? $$ come .. They do it the right way !
U gotta INTERPRET & USE the law, not BREAK it.
The landlord who is in jail is not smart definitely haha ..
Enuff said, too much analysis is paralysis, nothing ever comes to fruition without some effort.
Cabutz ..

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Added on December 16, 2011, 4:38 pmFinal advice.

Listen to hitz.fm gotcha. Can learn a lot how to get the response you want without actually doing the things they said they did which they didn't do .. *not breaking the law*

This post has been edited by mrPOTATO: Dec 16 2011, 04:38 PM

I normally pick tenant with high face/ego, shooting question why still rent & when going to buy own property?
have you fully paid off any loan before? why so long? etc..
i don't like you & want you to shift out... what would you do?
are you afraid of the police?
can you replace a broken bulb? why you never learn? etc..
(questions sound silly, but i use it back on them when i need)
questions to test ego & anger, senang i deal in future.. so far only chinese or mix chinese pass.

many walk off coz can't tahan..(i also cant' tahan, but no choice..better you play with them first before thay play with you later) & when they play with you it will be your worst nightmare... if they came back or sms asking some more info..you are about to close the deal..

i am not a pro still learning, now just only started reading Azizi Ali landlord book (i should have started earlier)

U dun need azizi whatever to do what is in accordance to the contract that both parties signed. As for my case, the husband is a police, but he seems a nice guy. Only the wife is causing troubles and pulling her husband to side her all the time, d'uh.

Ive always adopt strict governance. But of course other parties would prefer the sissy lemah lembut way. For sure the tenants would take advantage on sissies.

I have no choice but to call them and ask them to pay if not they can leave the premises asap. I call these kind of tenants kurang hajar.

Haha you can say anything including asking him to leave the premises, anything mild he just treats it as music, anything harsh he will record it and report to the police. Bottomline he stays put and refuses to move out, what are you going to do ?

[Like]

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Added on December 17, 2011, 9:05 amThis is exactly what happened to me! For people behaving like this, i always have to put a nice words and slowly get them to pay the rental, asking them to leave the premises will eventually come to a situation where by they will keep playing cat and mouse game or give all sort of reason.

see like me, i was only harsh on my tone only, and ended up in police station.


This post has been edited by FerrariST: Dec 17 2011, 09:05 AM

refuses to move out? refuses to pay? I call the police, show contract as evidence. And the hubby will be extra malu coz he's a police too.

Jangan ingt hang sorang ada kawan polis. HAHA.

Too much, bro. Dah nak masuk dua bulan x bayar sewa. Blame the bank lah apa lah. How can bank makes mistakes? And now second rent payment overdue. Salah bank lagi?

Crazies.

Police has no right to get the tenant out of the premise ! You have to get a court order to evict your tenant. And to get the court order, you have to do a few other things .....

u r right. if i'm in Malaysia right now, surely I've made a scene. In my contract, the landlord is allowed to enter the premise. I will just lock the gates or something. I will videotape all my movements so they can't accuse me of stealing etc.

1. Choosing tenants
- It takes months for me to choose good tenants. Good tenants means I investigate if they have a decent job, former landlord having problems with them or not

2. Motivation to pay early
- Reading Azizi Ali's books help... I give RM50 discount for early rental payment. If you pay before the 1st of every month, you pay RM750. From 1st of the month onwards RM800, after 14th I charge 5% daily rest. *Note: all stated clearly in the agreement

3. Tenancy agreement
I have a personal one and sat down with the tenant to go through clause by clause before he moved in

i have 14 rent house,
sorry to say, indian tenant is quite troublesome to handle...
awful rental payment dicipline...

You can't lock the gate too, if you admit that you will get yourself into trouble. You need to get a court order to lock out the tenant ! Your videotape is giving people an evidence that you broke into the premise. Oh no, you are helping the tenant to provide the evidence to charge you.

dont be too soft. its your house. in the agreement, if they dont pay, owners can enter premise. no problem. unless u dont put that in ur clause.

i know my rights. it's my house, both signed agreement.

Our discussion is only useful if we can sit on the same ground rules, that is we want to be good citizen and follow the laws. If you do not want to follow the law strictly, or you want to be a black society taiko taking the law in your own hand, then our discussion cannot be proceeded, we can stop the discussion now.

We have to realize that we can only put in fair clauses in an agreement, anything unfair which violates other laws ( eg Housing Act ) will be invalid. So you put in clauses that you can enter the premise and you can lock out the tenants etc belong to these clauses which are deemed unfair and even both parties signed, it is still invalid. Even clauses that give the right to the landlord to cut utilities may also be such invalid clauses. Because the laws deem it fundamental to provide utilities to the premise to ensure good health of the tenant.

Imagine two robbers enter into a black-and-white agreement about how to split the stolen goods. And both party signed. This will be an invalid contract.

This post has been edited by puchongite: Dec 20 2011, 07:15 AM

Dear puchong donk,

Signed and check by lawyers. Not breaching any current law.

Yours truly,

Anti-snobs

Thank you, then I will put in some of these clauses into my TA ! Even if I don't execute it, it's enough to scare them shitting in the pants.

Can find kutip hutang company collect rental for u

In the contract, put a clause, owner can claim back the unit if tenant failed to pay the rental > 7 days.
And all items inside the unit will be sell off in order to pay the rental, extra one will be given back to tenant.
both party sign the contract.
Put the stamp.

If tenant fail to pay, just walk to ur unit, use a super big lock chain the front and back door.

And report to police (just incase tenant break in and take back their things, so consider as robbing)

Want to rent then rent, don't want to rent then please walk away, there are lot of people waiting for renting.

This post has been edited by sovietmah: Dec 23 2011, 05:50 PM

Is this possible and have you tried execute this clause before?

The reason I asked because the constitution and master law of the country disallowed this. In a property seminar I went, lawyers did explained that if the tenant brings this to court, the landlord is still chargeable because of the existing laws.

Secondly, the lawyer also mentioned a case - if walk in and if tenant said he has RM1million missing from the property then the landlord is considered burglar. Locking them also they can sue you because you deprieve them a place to stay (despite you having an agreement)... The current laws do not favour landlords very much. Worse so if your tenant actually KNOWS the laws.

[Will give u as many we can (base on Our Customer listing)!!!!!!

is it better to let agent rent out and deal with rental collection/eviction?

You're right

Haha throughout this discussion I have mentioned these points too. However, there seems to be another school of thought here, and claimed to have verified with his lawyer. Haha I don't know this lawyer of him graduated from where, but since I am not a lawyer, I take his words and just close the case. But at the bottom of my heart, I am still not convinced. I think more or less like you, honestly, I don't think there is much landlords can do, because the laws favours tenants more - a point I mentioned right from the beginning.

That's a great blog! I would like to contribute if I have one. But I rather don't

I put this clause when i rent to a family few years back. not sure if it works or not, but for 3 years she never miss the rental fees.
but after that i take back the unit coz i moving to KL to work later on. or else i guess difficult to find tenant like that.

The market is not perfect - thats y some ppl lost $ in stk mkt yet some profit, some ppl biz go bust but others successsful, etc.

Same with all sectors, some ppl know less & some ppl know more & yet some ppl do not know/care abt law, therein lies the loophole for landlords.

Regardless of the law, does everybody follow it ? Again, this is another landlord's potential weapon. . thats why there are so many court cases even if there is a law already written abt it. If landlords are scared of going to court, so are tenants (more scared ?), again another psychological advantage to landlords.

Developers are viewed as the stronger party compared to purchasers in the law, same that landlords are viewed by courts a stronger person compared to tenant, so the courts normally try to protect the weaker party.

Why does the law view landlords as the stronger party ? This is food for thought .. how can landlords leverage on their 'stronger' ground to their advantage in dealing with tenants ? It would be a sad case indeed if landlords see themselves as weak & powerless.

At this juncture, I can't help but to emphasize that when buying properties we are all taught LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. In being a landlord it is TENANT, TENANT, TENANT.

I would rather leave my property empty in search of ONE good tenant, rather than spend much time, headaches and hassle to go to court, dealing with lawyers etc when things go wrong later.

How I choose (just to share):
1. I ask where he works and how long has he been in the job. I would call the company to find out his salary etc. Better still ask him if he is willing to answer.
Some may find this ridiculous but bear in mind I am letting you a 100k 200k 300k property at only 1k+ per month and since it is a monthly business, I deserve to know. I can't be renting a 1k property to someone making only 2k per month, 50% for rental is ridiculous (assuming he is a single tenant)

2. I do background check by asking where he rents prior to wanting to rent my place, how much was the rental and reasons to move. I will also ask former landlord's phone number. If he hesitate to provide, don't even need to check blacklist listing lor... understood.

3. Prior to entering the house (confirm rental) I walkthrough the house with him, sit down explain my rental agreement clause by clause and ensure he understands before he signs. Many people don't do this and find arguments later

4. To encourage early payment, I give discounts if he pays rental before the 1st of the month.

These are not new tips, these are all learnt from books and attending seminars. Just sharing only.

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Added on December 29, 2011, 10:33 pmEh just found out there is a thread just for laws la... so useful!
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2138486


This post has been edited by hoongling: Dec 29 2011, 10:33 PM

Wao nice tenant u have there.. Are they still looking for house in KL?
Intro me la hehe

This post has been edited by Ash1988: Dec 29 2011, 10:44 PM

The tenant also found another property, that's why no longer rent my unit.
although the tenant quite lan si la sometimes.. but consider as 9/10 tenant,
when i moving in to the unit, only some part of the wall dirty, the rest of thing looks the same compare to 3 years ago.

Great insights! Hope it will helps me in future.

i also agree with you that tenant screening is ultra important - if you rush to rent it out as you are heartsick or need the money as there is no rental as its not tenanted, trust me there will be more headaches if you rent to the wrong tenant! so essentially you have to be able to sustain the vacancy costs in between rental while you look for a good tenant.

Yes, generally the laws are on the tenant side..the landlord/owner's options are very limited and even with these options, its a hassle to get it enforced legally ..cost time and money..Generally lawyers will say - the amount of legal fees and time you have to go through to claim for compensation or whatever, in the end do you think its worth it? so they also in a way malas to take up such cases..

Reminds me of my ex-landlord, i'm frightened of her, just coop myself up in my room when she's back

I really hate the hassles .. messes up my peace of mind, so i don't let them have a comfortable stay if they give me headaches.. they give me hassle, i serve some back, give & take in the relationship. Its like the reinforcement theory for dogs, if they do something good, feed it IMMEDIATELY, if they misbehave must IMMEDIATELY correct it, they they know who the master is Just using some strong words for illustration hahah.. I keep some 'hassles' in my bag of tricks so whenever tenants misbehave i have something to remind them that they won't have a peaceful stay.

Guys do you think if the 2+1 and utilities deposit is being given with 2 installments by the tenant is safe?
Say first half when sign agreement and the other half on end of the month.

no no and no...

for me, no deal - either pay up everything first or no moving in..

so you think -if the tenant cant afford the deposit, very good chance they cant afford the rental as well..i would not take that risk becoz
once they move in, and they dont pay the 2nd instalment and wont move out either..i tell you, you will have sleepless nites..unless you got bro
or friend who makes a living out of making people pay their debts ..ah.."specialists" so to speak

I foresee tenants have more choices so many condos going to complete or want to rent out.
Say two to 3 months maybe 6 months then switch condo..

You are right, last time I kena coz no experience... Now I rather have the it empty, memang pening if kena the wrong tenant...
My weakness previously .. I wanted to help them but ended up kena play out, this week I gave notice 3 preson to move out without mercy..

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Added on January 6, 2012, 1:14 pmI hope these tenants find a good landlord..Now days the new generation condo/landed has our private online chat room for landlords/owners only.. this allow us to interact & monitor tenants... Its a matter of time how far they can go..

This post has been edited by blasto: Jan 6 2012, 01:14 PM

Very tire of those bad tenant la.

Why got such kind of people ah? wanted to rent but don't want to pay. mo feel malu want meah?

What kind of society now ah?

This is standard. Nothing is safe if you have a bad tenant. Tenant screening is important. Half half situation really depends on situation? Working adults? If students, I can consider that.

Sudah biasa punya kaki it's normal to them, kena select tenants with big ego, so senang mau clear if problem... in work place also same got good & bad apples..those power ones are silent killers..

ya lo.

look like being landlord no fun anymore.

or got to think of some creative ways to protect our right.

example auto credit card payment/ standing instruction payment

The pening makan abalone also no cure ...
Now I target to deal direct with student's parents, bro kindly advise which one is better & more secure ? Post dated cheques or standing instruction payment ... ?
Is auto credit card payment & standing instruction payment the same.. ?

Today I just fired 3 tenants, many advise/chances given but still show their colors... I think they kena more impact, like termination of employment..
So I am here burning the midnight oil thinking next chapter planning...

How to fire, bro? I want to learn...
My first unit for rental, the first month and already tenant is not paying yet even though he signed clause etc. Deposit he paid half a month late, issued bounced cheque.
super sien...maybe rental play is not for me

There are a few who have started 3+1 or even 2+1.5

Try read The Millionaire Landlord by Azizi Ali, it IS FUN being a millionaire landlord.

like hoongling said read The Millionaire Landlord by Azizi Ali, it IS FUN being a millionaire landlord.

This post has been edited by blasto: Jan 8 2012, 03:24 AM

Not everyone will agree with 3+1 or 2+1.5. The chances of succeed in renting out is lower

Nothing comes easy anyway but once you get a tenant who is good, you will be relieved for over few years. My first tenant in my first property 4 years ago still staying there until now.

Today my tenants all shift out, its a new begining from now on..
My friend rented to the same tenants for almost 10years, his advise check their background the superstition way.. coz some tenants in your home brings bad luck bela hantu stuff..

Just curious, do you still able to manage for all unit to be vacant for 1/2 months?

New year new resolution... Kena manage, business got ups & down...
I take this time reno/refurnish & create more rooms(partition) ..

Every time when a tenants leaves I do a police report,in this event they did not return the keys & damaged the main door, others minor damages/missing items remains yet undetected at this moment..

just came back from making a police report (not related the above subject) and see of an owner making a police report of his tenant making a threat of killing and destroying his home(house owner). i overheard that the tenant didnt pay any rent up to 4 month and bills come close to 2k! when the police called the tenant, tenant said that he did pay (partial, just to reconnection but the owner instruct TNB to reconnect after full settlement had been done). The house owner scared the safety of his family and thus longed a report. Beware who u renting it out.

i hope all landlords brainstorm & contribute idea to set up a system to minimize those bikin kacau tenants.. as i know middle class tenants would not keep their room tidy either lazy or has a mind set property not belongs to them so why bother jaga. so either you rent higher to cover future losses or save up for repairs when they are out..

Hi, Im planning to buy a property with tenancy agreement... (until 2012 december) ... but i need to shift in the property once the S&P is signed and the name transfered to me..... my question is..... can I give a 3 month notice to the tenant to move out say from feb to april so that I can shift in by MAY? I understand i am breaking the contract but the house will belong to me.... Can I do that?

tenant's agreement is with current owner and not you so not up to you to deal with tenant directly- what you need to ensure is that in the S&P its specified clearly that you want VACANT POSSESSION of property.

There are many properties that are put up for sale; advertised with tenant. So, does it mean that the property will be delivered with Vacant possession?
Or it means that the buyer will have to deal with the tenant....

no, that means if property comes with tenant, then it is sale with tenancy ..
if it comes empty, then its vacant possession..

owners like to sell with tenancy as they usually can get a better price from purchasers who are investors...of course this does not work with
buyers who are buying for own stay in which case, the vendor has to be informed that the purchase is conditional on the property being delivered
with vacant possession

but the tenancy agreement is between the previous owner(seller) and the tenant...
so, how would the tenancy still be valid if the property is now under the purchaser's name?
unless there is a new tenancy agreement signed between the new purchaser & the tenant

no need for a new agreement - your lawyer can just state in the S&P that the tenancy is transferred/reassigned to the new owner...vendor then informs
tenant accordingly..

in that case, maybe it would be better to have a new tenancy agreement between the new purchaser and the existing tenant. At least a cleaner agreement; in case problems crop up later....

Yes you can, it's your property you have the rights to do whats best.. to me keeping the old tenant are not advisable coz it's like picking up seller/owner old shitz & very risky game.. I prefer empty

you got a very valid & good point there. You never know how the old tenant.....

True oso. but I was once offered a corner shop with Hong Leong Bank as tenant. Giv it a pass cos asking price is darn high.

bank as tenant, good what. Long term client...

I luv it too, but cant afford to buy cos asking price is really ridiculous. Fyi, its more than 10 mil with rental few 10k. Its bout 5% but not worth it if u think properly. If HLB terminate tenancy, do v get another tenant who can afford to pay few 10k???

Thanks it's hard to trust anybody in bolehland nowdays, tenants dare to take chances, a lady I met innocent & career minded, rent 2 months want quit due work stress & dare ask compensation deposit.. she mention in TA is 14days notice to move out (but actually 14days tu is upon renew)

Hi,

pls wary of these 4 BASTARDS who can destroy your property. Don't let your hard earned money to be burnt by these criminals.

I've made the police report and police is investigating under Section 380, pls let me know/ police if you come across these idiots.


One of the damage they can do to your house..

They are Indians or Bangla?