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 Lawyer's Corner v2, One-stop centre for any legal queries

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k3v1n
post Dec 9 2011, 09:15 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Dec 8 2011, 03:42 PM)
You must understand that the rebate is not automatic. You have to apply for it together when your MOT/DOA is submitted for adjudication. Once LHDN is satisfied that you fulfil the requirements, they will state the stamp duty payable and that sum will be 50% of the stamp duty payable under normal circumstances. There have been cases where applications have been rejected.

Now, two scenarios:

1) If the vendor's property is still encumbered.

Then the financier's solicitors will request for confirmation from your SPA lawyer whether you have deposited the estimated stamp duty payable with the SPA lawyer before first drawdown to redeem the vendor's loan can be issued. As such, you need to deposit it much earlier in your SPA lawyer's client account.

A prudent lawyer would collect in full, as there's no guarantee that the application for rebate has been approved.
2) if the vendor's property is not encumbered.

Then there is no need for the confirmation as the MOT/DOA can be directly sent to LHDN for adjudication. Once again, A prudent lawyer would collect in full, as there's no guarantee that the application for rebate has been approved.

If only 50% is collected and if the application is rejected, things would be at a standstill until the purchaser coughs up the balance 50% payable. A prudent lawyer can skip the hassle of that and merely pay up in full what has been collected from the client.

Having said so, there are lawyers who just collect 50% stamp duty from the client. It's just that your lawyer doesn't operate that way.

In a nutshell, do not have any adverse conclusion against your lawyer. He is just being prudent by demanding for the full sum to be deposited with him as stakeholder. It's not like he can play with the money. If the application for rebate has been approved, the lawyer can refund the money to you, and all will be ok,

icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Dario, thanks for the clear explanation, wouldn't you mind to explain what is mean by "If the vendor's property is still encumbered or not"? smile.gif
TSdariofoo
post Dec 9 2011, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(k3v1n @ Dec 9 2011, 09:15 AM)
Dario, thanks for the clear explanation, wouldn't you mind to explain what is mean by "If the vendor's property is still encumbered or not"?  smile.gif
*
Encumbered means there is a charge/assignment in favour of the bank who granted the vendor a loan. If the property is encumbered, it is highly likely that there are monies still owing to the bank by the vendor. In such cases, there would be two drawdowns (release) of monies by your bank to the vendor:

1) 1st release - the vendor's bank to redeem (settle) the outstanding loan.
2) 2nd release - balance loan sum to vendor.

So, for 1st release, your bank must first be satisfied that the stamp duty has been deposited with your SPA lawyer.

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Milo_O
post Dec 9 2011, 02:04 PM

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Hi dariofoo,
In purchasing a sub-sale property, i understand that there are 3 type of fees as below, correct me if i'm wrong

i) Legal Fee:
From the 1st pg in V1 thread, i calculate the legal fee for $565k is $ 4,405.
Is this the legal fee for SnP ?
I also understand that there are many misc fees under legal fees e.g transportation fees, etc. Is the $ 4,405 inclusive of the misc fees ? I wud assume no.

ii) Stamp Duty
Using the calculator, the stamp duty for $565k is $10,950.
Is the above number also inclusive of legal fee stamp duty and loan agreement stamp duty ?

iii) Loan Agreement Legal Fees
How to calculate this ?
Is this for the loan agreement documents between me and the bank ?

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Dec 9 2011, 03:21 PM
Felixchui80
post Dec 9 2011, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Dec 8 2011, 03:16 PM)
Give it 2 weeks to be safe. There's no 3 working days guarantee like the Shah Alam land office.  nod.gif
*
The new land title will be under only one registered owner (lee fong moi) or lee fong moi & lee fong moi sbg executor.......?


Added on December 9, 2011, 3:33 pmAny problem if it is under lee fong moi & lee fong moii sbg executor? Cannot just registered under lee fong moi as the only registered owner? Or this is the normal procedure?

Usually in such case, the new land title will be like that and would that have any effect in completing the SPA?



This post has been edited by Felixchui80: Dec 9 2011, 03:33 PM
TSdariofoo
post Dec 9 2011, 06:40 PM

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QUOTE(Felixchui80 @ Dec 9 2011, 03:15 PM)
The new land title will be under only one registered owner (lee fong moi) or lee fong moi & lee fong moi sbg executor.......?


Added on December 9, 2011, 3:33 pmAny problem if it is under lee fong moi & lee fong moii sbg executor?  Cannot just registered under lee fong moi as the only registered owner?  Or this is the normal procedure?

Usually in such case, the new land title will be like that and would that have any effect in completing the SPA?
*
1. Two names - same name, but in different capacity. One is in her capacity as the registered owner, and another in her capacity as the executor of the estate of the deceased owner of the other half-share
2. No problem
3. Cannot register with her in her capacity as single owner because she is holding the half-share as executor only.
4. It won't have any effect with the SPA,so don't worry.

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TSdariofoo
post Dec 9 2011, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(Milo_O @ Dec 9 2011, 02:04 PM)
Hi dariofoo,
In purchasing a sub-sale property, i understand that there are 3 type of fees as below, correct me if i'm wrong

i) Legal Fee:
From the 1st pg in V1 thread, i calculate the legal fee for $565k is $ 4,405.
Is this the legal fee for SnP ?
I also understand that there are many misc fees under legal fees e.g transportation fees, etc. Is the $ 4,405 inclusive of the misc fees ? I wud assume no.

ii) Stamp Duty
Using the calculator, the stamp duty for $565k is $10,950.
Is the above number also inclusive of legal fee stamp duty and loan agreement stamp duty ?

iii) Loan Agreement Legal Fees
How to calculate this ?
Is this for the loan agreement documents between me and the bank ?
*
1) Yes that's the base legal fees. There are also other legal fees like filing of CKHT, entry/withdrawal of caveat (if applicable) and consent. It does not include disbursements.

2) There's no such thing as legal fee stamp duty. This stamp duty for 10k is for the memorandum of transfer (MOT) or deed of assignment (DOA). It does not include stamp duty upon the loan doc.

3) 0.5% of loan sum. Flat rate. 20% less if Islamic financing. Yes this is the doc between you and the bank.

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Octopuz
post Dec 10 2011, 12:51 PM

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Hi Dario,

I've signed the loan agreement recently but on the facilty agreement, the interest rate and monthly installment are not updated as agreed with my banker.

The person in charge of the signing asked me to sign and will make the amendment with the bank side later.

Thus, am I made a mistake here or it's all right as i have an email from the bank stating the final rate given?

Confused...
TSdariofoo
post Dec 10 2011, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(Octopuz @ Dec 10 2011, 12:51 PM)
Hi Dario,

I've signed the loan agreement recently but on the facilty agreement, the interest rate and monthly installment are not updated as agreed with my banker.

The person in charge of the signing asked me to sign and will make the amendment with the bank side later.

Thus, am I made a mistake here or it's all right as i have an email from the bank stating the final rate given?

Confused...
*
Can sign first and amend later. It's done all the time. Just make sure that you attend to put your initial for all the amendments as it indicates that you agree to it.

icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 10 2011, 10:00 PM
david_kiat
post Dec 10 2011, 11:06 PM

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Hi.
I would like to ask whether the entry and withdrawal of private caveat is covered under the SPA or the loan agreement?
My loan solicitors said no need to enter private caveat as it is a master title. Is this correct?

Octopuz
post Dec 11 2011, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Dec 10 2011, 09:59 PM)
Can sign first and amend later. It's done all the time. Just make sure that you attend to put your initial for all the amendments as it indicates that you agree to it.

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Oh... Thanks... smile.gif
TSdariofoo
post Dec 11 2011, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(david_kiat @ Dec 10 2011, 11:06 PM)
Hi.
I would like to ask whether the entry and withdrawal of private caveat is covered under the SPA or the loan agreement?
My loan solicitors said no need to enter private caveat as it is a master title. Is this correct?
*
If got individual title - then for both SPA and loan there would be entry and withdrawal of caveat, i.e. two caveats - one by you and one by the bank.

For master title, what your loan sol told you is correct. nod.gif
SUSjalsrix
post Dec 12 2011, 12:20 PM

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Dario

I have a problem here as I don't know who to report - bank negara or lawyer association.

1. The lawyer told me the bank only gave the cheque to them on 4 dec.

2. The bank told me the lawyer only collected cheque on 4 dec.

Both sides are blaming each other.

But the interest was calculated from 28 nov as the amount disbursed.

Why should I pay 1 week interest when the money is not even disbursed to my seller or lawyer ?

The lawyer is part of the official panel of lawyers from the bank.


Both are irresponsible parties, who do I complain to ? bank negara or lawyer association ?
TSdariofoo
post Dec 12 2011, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(jalsrix @ Dec 12 2011, 12:20 PM)
Both are irresponsible parties, who do I complain to ? bank negara or lawyer association ?
*
Get the correspondence to see who's at fault. Look at date of letter by bank and date of collection.

How much was the interest?
SUSjalsrix
post Dec 12 2011, 07:59 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Dec 12 2011, 06:49 PM)
Get the correspondence to see who's at fault. Look at date of letter by bank and date of collection.

How much was the interest?
*
that is a difficult thing to do cause my lawyer didn't get official letter from bank.

This post has been edited by jalsrix: Dec 12 2011, 10:04 PM
TSdariofoo
post Dec 12 2011, 11:33 PM

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QUOTE(jalsrix @ Dec 12 2011, 07:59 PM)
that is a difficult thing to do cause my lawyer didn't get official letter from bank.
*
Then how are you going to prove your case against the lawyer or the bank? hmm.gif

How much was the interest charged?

Although I do not have a crystal ball and do not know the true facts of the case, if both parties are putting the blame on each other on the issue of the cheque - I would actually be more inclined to believe the lawyer rather than the bank. Reasons?

1) It is the lawyer who would normally call the bank to chase after the cheque;
2) It is the bank who will always take their own sweet time to issue the cheque;
3) The lawyer would not want to delay collecting the cheque when it is ready as it would defeat the purpose of calling up the bank and chasing them to issue it.

The above is the general scenario in MAJORITY of cases, not all. Perhaps your case fell in the minority of cases?

Surely when the bank issued the cheque there would be a cover letter annexed to it,right? Or perhaps an advise slip? hmm.gif

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 12 2011, 11:37 PM
SUSjalsrix
post Dec 13 2011, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Dec 12 2011, 11:33 PM)

Surely when the bank issued the cheque there would be a cover letter annexed to it,right? Or perhaps an advise slip?  hmm.gif
*
My lawyer didn't give me the cover letter or advice slip and they are very unfriendly/unhelpful.

Interest is not much but it is matter of ethics. Anyway, I try to get the cover letter from bank instead.

Thanks


Milo_O
post Dec 13 2011, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Dec 9 2011, 06:43 PM)
1) Yes that's the base legal fees. There are also other legal fees like filing of CKHT, entry/withdrawal of caveat (if applicable) and consent. It does not include disbursements.

2) There's no such thing as legal fee stamp duty. This stamp duty for 10k is for the memorandum of transfer (MOT) or deed of assignment (DOA). It does not include stamp duty upon the loan doc.

3) 0.5% of loan sum. Flat rate. 20% less if Islamic financing. Yes this is the doc between you and the bank.

icon_rolleyes.gif
*
May i know how to calculate the stamp duty for the loan doc ?

Thanks in advance dariofoo rclxms.gif notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Dec 13 2011, 11:11 AM
Kaitlyn
post Dec 13 2011, 11:35 AM

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Hi Dario,
I got a question on heritage issue. My dad has passed away and left a property. We as daughter, had waived the ownership and passed it to my mom. If my mom planned to selling this property within 5 years, will she be imposed the RPGT?
If yes, is it flat rate of 5% gains tax?
Can you give an example on minimum exemption and the retention sum of 2% of the purchase price? I've tried to read the article but I can't fully understand the calculation. Let said the property bought at RM60K long long time ago and I presume it sold RM100K now.
Thanks in advanced.
TSdariofoo
post Dec 13 2011, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(Milo_O @ Dec 13 2011, 11:08 AM)
May i know how to calculate the stamp duty for the loan doc ?

Thanks in advance dariofoo  rclxms.gif  notworthy.gif
*
I answered it in para (3) - 0.5% of loan sum. Flat rate. 20% less if Islamic financing.

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TSdariofoo
post Dec 13 2011, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(jalsrix @ Dec 13 2011, 09:37 AM)
My lawyer didn't give me the cover letter or advice slip and they are very unfriendly/unhelpful.

Interest is not much but it is matter of ethics. Anyway, I try to get the cover letter from bank instead.

Thanks
*
Ask for it in writing. Give them 48 hours to provide you with a copy, failing which you will file an official complaint with the A&S Discip Board.



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