see how they catch you there

1st year total 3k investment - 500 return
2nd year total 6k investment - 500 return
3rd year total 9k investment - 500 return
4th year total 12k investment - 500 return
5th year total 15k investment - 500 return
6th year total 18k investment - 500 return

now u see the trend?

they show you the 3k every year, but the subsequent year what happen to your 3k / 6k / 9k / 12k / 15k before that?And as mentioned, please calculate how long it takes for you to get back your 18k.

Sadly, alot of people are still blinded by it and sign up.

If it is 16.67% return per annum, the big bosses themselves are signing up with millions of fund already.

This post has been edited by bearbear: Mar 17 2012, 11:35 PM

Thanks V12Kompressor for sharing... (sometimes it is a bit sad to see flamers around)

I personally found the plan you shared attractive in some way... So I would like to just share my thoughts as well.

Advantages:
1) I can save, and it comes with a protection. The protection can work for me in many ways, because I have my own software business, and I bought office and condos. But, I do not like Life plan, which solely just take my money over a long period. So, I would prefer a saving plan with higher surrender value. (I don't quite care about dividen, it is non-guaranteed anyway)

2) Give me abit of financial control, as I am quite a big spender, I can easily take home a sales of 100k, but I couldnt save 100k. So, it force me to save some money for retirement.

3) I dont like the way ppl spend EPF money. So, I took up this plan to save some portion of my EPF contribution, a place that is flexible, and I can have full control with.

4) I can assign trustee, it serve as a risk management as well.

Disadvantages:
1) Need to save this amount for at least 10-15 years. Calculated.
2) Can only save if have excessive cash. But if we manage our cash the proper way, you should save before you spend.
3) Not quite attractive, if I have a huge money ready for big investment, or high turnover investment. (provided that you dont care about risk, or you have high return to cover your risk)
4) Not suitable for ppl who wanted to get rich fast out of this. You are saving, not investing. If you dont save now, you have nothing later.

Conclusion:

I dont't adjust myself to this plan. I find values from this plan that fit me.

What are the underlying assets that the income builder plan invests in?

Hi All,

I am HLA agent too.
Let me state an example for you all for clearer understanding about the Income Builder


EG: Female, Age 27
Save with HLA Income Builder for 6 year

Saving: RM5,186 per year or RM453 per month
Total saving in 6 years: RM31,116
Guaranteed Yearly Income: RM1,000 per year up to 40 year (Female, Age 66 by then)

2 options available for the Guaranteed yearly income:
1) Accumulates with HLA with compounding interest 5.5% (by age 66 Female will have RM195,039 as retirement fund based on Scenario A return of 6.5% with HLA)
2) Withdraw yearly income - RM1,000 cheque sent to Female yearly (by age 66 Female will still have RM58,434 as retirement fund based on Scenario A return of 6.5% with HLA)

HLA sticks to Scenario A for all our product for more than 10 years in history with proven memorandum.
Personally i think this is a really good plan but in the end still coming back to the real purpose of the client before start committing.
This plan definitely won't make you richer, however it can give you peace of mind if you start with an affordable premium and planned what the fund is meant for in the end.

Main Benefit: Short saving period, long term guaranteed return.


PS: Of course if you comparing with EPF, RM195k sure not enough for retirement. But bare in mind, you only save for 6 years here, just treat this as a reserve fund. Unlike EPF which you save month by month, until age you can withdraw EPF. That of course will become alot of money


Best regards to all and happy saving,
Flora

Rm195,039, a guaranteed return?

I suggest some company come out with another shorter save plan like 3 years with Rm10k per year?
Can claim even shorter saving period.

you understand what you are selling ?

U wanna know more??

---

Added on March 22, 2012, 4:43 pmRM195,039 is not guaranteed.
The only thing that is guaranteed in this plan is the GUARANTEED YEARLY INCOME which is the RM1,000 per year x 40 years.

and this RM195,039 includes Guaranteed yearly income, accumulated interests (5.5% at Scenario A), Yearly Dividend (Scenario A)

**For those who wondering what is Scenario A
- Its an assumption on the dividend payout and compounding rate from Hong Leong Assurance company performance
- Hong Leong Assurance attain Scenario A every year for all previous and current saving product.


That'll be real difficult for 1 to meet the retirement fund amount if you only require to save 3 years of money.
Unless this 3 years you can save at least RM100k per year (total RM300k), perhaps.

By 30years later (with compounding interest and non withdrawal) the account will have around 350% in total of what you save in, that makes the account RM1,050,000. Should be enough for 15 years of retirement.

But 3 years saving plan really sound attractive to everyone. We as agent might get more sales from it.

---

Added on March 22, 2012, 5:24 pm I think there must be some misunderstanding. Cash builder is in fact a great account. What support do you have to say that FD rates are better? In what way? Can FD generates you 250% total return after 30 years? Definitely no. Even at 4% rate of FD can only go up to roughly 224% of total return in 30 years period.

And we agent just work for a living, same like you. I bet you wouldn't like people to say what you're working as now is a crime and you should be shot. Its not nice to give such comment in the public. Please respect others.

No we don't get that much Way lower than what you stated here. But its not nice to tell to public as this commission is the only income that we get and need it for living.

Completely agree with you on the lower sum assured. But you cant compare an apple with orange. Life insurance and Cash Builder is completely different thing. We will not recommend Cash builder to client that needs a Life protection, same on the other hand, for saving purpose, we cannot recommend Life insurance to them. Life insurance dont save them much money in the end. But it protects the family as a whole if the bread winner no longer around. Its totally different thing. Please dont compare a saving plan with a life insurance plan.


I am just imagining how much you have to save now to make sure you can retire for another 15 years after age 55.
$300000 x 15 = RM4,500,000

As for Fixed deposit (which you say the returns is so much better), at age 25 you have to save RM1,400,000 with rate 4% and let it be compounding for 30 years.
By age 55 you will have your retirement fund ready RM4,500,000

This is just pure example. Of course with Cash Builder don't require 1 to save as much to attain this retirement figure.


I hope i don't offense you in anyway and hope this clears your doubt.
Peace.

This post has been edited by flora02: Mar 22 2012, 05:24 PM

Then why you come out the statement of


Many fulltime agent make a living through commission from the premium, what is so not nice to tell?
As long as the agent explain properly and clearly, and no misleading statement to start with, what is wrong with that?

3 years attractive? Seems someone don't understand
15 years, 6 years, 3 years saving is the same one.
In fact 15 years can be more affordable than 6 years.
For eg. if
15 years annual premium Rm 2000
6 years annual premium Rm 5000
3 years annual premium RM 10,000

All are the same, shorter period of premium /= better, in fact it can be worst depended on situation.
For eg. a 6 year premium plan.
Paid 2 years, suddenly something happen and face financial difficult, cannot afford to pay for following years, means pre-mature surrender and surrender cash value can be less than premium paid.
There is no such thing shorter period of saving one. Just how it being structured.

Compared FD with Cash builder?
Can cash builder money inside lump sum being withdrawn at age 45 when you emergency required time compared to FD?
FD anytime I emergency needed time, or whenever I needed time, I can use the money, can cash builder does it?
If not, then why compared with FD?

Agree totally.

Yes what you saying here is somewhat true but not 100%. If there are really 3 years plan, the comparison table might be like this.
15 years annual premium Rm 3000
6 years annual premium Rm 5000
3 years annual premium RM 8,800

To get the same Guaranteed Yearly Income, this should roughly be what the premium payment amount looks like.

Tired of going on with this over and over again, you must be feeling the same. I am sure you as a moderator of this forum know more than me for the answer to this question.
Of course you can get back your lumpsum of money (aka 100% withdrawal) at any period of time, but we will advise the client when should be the best time of withdrawal.
When client sign up for this plan, its meant for retirement or education purpose.
Unlike FD, which has more flexibility like you mention, and of course returns are lower. Why dont then you compare FD with property returns? of course property returns are higher, but izzit flexible? definitely not.
Can you treat FD as a retirement fund? 1 must have really strong discipline when come to this. I am sure alot of people will withdraw their EPF before age 55 if there's a need of emergency & nothing stopping them to do so. But what will happen to these people is they will have RM0 retirement fund in the end. And force to work after retirement age.

All plans have pros and cons. Our plan serve its purpose well.

I am also tired of seeing agent post like that.

there is always scenario A and B in the quotation,
however even in bear market, scenario B hv higher interest than fixed deposit + protection and etc such as waiver if u included in ur saving plan.

however, for the pass 8 years even in bear market, Hong Leong declare the dividend at Scenario A, That makes most of my client return to me for new transaction.

there is always criticizer for products as there was many competitors and rumors spreading in the industry. Hong Leong save the advertising fee for better return to agents, consultants and also client =)

For better understanding, pls find experienced client =)
i believe there will be more positive than negative, i wont expect all positive, as many times, is not the product or agency prob but the agent.

As conclusion, to evaluate the plan pls find a respective agent in charge or consultant for the best evaluating =)

Simply put, there are better and cheaper ways to save money than cash builder.

By the way, cash builder is just a name created by HLA, basically cash builder is just like any other endowment plans marketed by the insurance industry. Nothing to shout about.

Are you sure about that?
Means if I save until the 9th year and then suddenly my mother is sick and I need money for medical, I can withdraw 100% of my cash saved in cash builder?

100%??? in your dreams lor.. can withdraw some but have to pay interest to insurance company for the monies withdrawn.

save your money with A, withdraw some of your own money to use, have to pay interest to A.

(BTW there are valid reasons for it, but i will leave that to the insurance agents here to explain the reasons)

you have to pay interest to the company when u using your OWN money. You dont need to pay other's ppl money to save for your money. If you want force saving, pay the same commission amout to your parents and save in their bank account.

No body can answer this?

Interested to find out what sort of investments or assets does both plans invest in to generate the return for us plan holders or investors?

Hi please confirm my understanding.

I got this table from melvinology * com:

Year Deposit Income Surrender
---- ------- ------ -------
1 12060 2000 10228
2 12060 2000 19729
3 12060 2000 31351
4 12060 2000 44153
5 12060 2000 58156
6 12060 2000 72777
7 0 2000 76745
8 . . 80936
9 . . 85359
10 . . 90046
. . . .
30 . . 259612

Based on this table, I then calculated the 'profit' and ROI for 10 years:

Cash builder
------------

10 years investment
= 12060 * 6
= 72360

Surrender value after 10 years
= 90046

Profit
= 17686

10 year ROI
= 17686/72360
= 0.2444

Fixed Deposit
------------

Assume 3% pa, and investment is instant rather than over 6 years.

Principle
= 72360

Surrender
= 72360 * (1.03^10)
= 97246

Profit
= 24886

ROI
= 24886/72360
= 0.3439

Am I correct here? Thanks in advance.

ROI is lower than FD right?

This is VERY VERY INTERESTING indeed!!! Thanks for all the views and opinions guys! Really learn a lot from here!

I think I have calculated wrongly. I didn't factor in the income.