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> Football Manager 2012 Tactics Unleashed, Attributes explained?Turn it into act! (Football Management)

Jedi
post Nov 22 2011, 09:36 PM


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Hi guys, on the version FM 2011 thread : http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1632620 I shared with u all about attributes of players(derived from SI forum for the pleasure of our lowyat FM fans). Now is the time to share about tactics.

I know everyone has their own flavour, just as in Star Wars you have Jedis who prefer defensive (soresu) aka Obi Wan, u have anakin who prefers Shiem/Djem So (attack and defense balance), u have Mace Windu who prefers vaapad (gung-ho).

In football The Force....exists.
Nothing is impossible. Adidas said so. I will implement what they say.
However it is called by different terms from star wars universe,
Soresu: park the tank (10 player behind the ball like wat F.Capello did to spain last week on friendly eng vs spa), park the bus (compact the box)
Shiem: Total Football Djem So: Tiki-Taka icon_rolleyes.gif
Vaapad: Joga Bonito

TIKI-TAKA - renders Cantenaccio into subzero temperature.

so what is the difference between total football and tiki-taka? youtube and google will give the ans and videos solution.
mainly Total Football is introduced to world stage by dutch players (most prevalent: Johan Cruyff) during their prime, where players retain ball possession while defenders inter switch with strikers and midfielders' roles to attack and defence simultaneously in order to confuse opponents who man mark.

Renu Michels' Ajax destroyed Italian Inter Giant in the 70s 6-0 5-0 with the brand new at the time, total football. Inter responds with Double marking system, which failed until today. since 2006 Fifa World Cup over..

Have u watched Bourne Identity? Supremacy?

Tiki-Taka introduced by Guardiola is the Treadstone upgrade equivalent from Total Football. Because Total Football tires players easily to inter switch and roam the field. Barcelona plays a passing football never seen before, retaining possession while waiting for opposition to open up spaces , make mistakes or tire up.

Guardiola was a player under Cruyff, if u not yet know. Cruyff introduced the pioneer of the play to Barcelona, set up the La Masia academy (barcelonas youth academy that produces Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, G.Amor, Pique, Puyol, Reina lalala), and Guardiola was slow during his career, so he thought of this method, implemented it and made Barcelona a disciplined squad , already inherited from Riijkaards attacking flair squad. Party boopers like Etoo Ronaldinho left as a result.

Watch this:


I want to play beautiful football, I dont mind sitting there staring at my cheapsy turned Solomon P.Ferreira passing back and forth and frustrate opponents instead of the cross smash and slide to celebrate 2 minute Citeh-Mancini style, or to better say, soccer built for YouTube and Shebby Singh reports, Ten-second chunks of absolute brilliance but clumsy and unorganised throughout depending on only Y.Toure/D.Silva for playmaking, or the german blitzkrieg to get goals like i used to, without actually controlling the game, defenders clearing balls to safety and waiting for highlights of my counter attacks.

Question is: can it be done? yes, but with tactics creator I get nowhere near the real life (maybe u can!)

KEY THINGS
Possession

Barcelona have averaged 73.4% possession in their league matches this season, where the next highest by a side in La Liga is 57.0% at Valencia, and the next highest in Europe’s top five leagues is Bayern Munich with 61.5%. In the Champions League this average goes up to 74.3%, with Bayern once more in second place on 62.3%.'

Xavi , A Midfield Schemer in Tiki-Taka's passing statistics

March 31, 2010 Arsenal v Barcelona: 95 - successful passes
April 6, 2010 Barcelona v Arsenal: 105 - successful passes
April 20, 2010 Inter v Barcelona: 93 - successful passes
May 28 Barcelona v MAN UTD: 142 - successful passes
November 24 Panathinaikos Barcelona: 105 - successful passes
November 2 Copenhagen 1-1 Barcelona: 98 - successful passes

in FM, if settings are done correctly, While its impossible to achieve 142 passes, the nearest replication should allow u against a lower par opponent, with 60-80 against normal opponents
user posted image

THINGS IN TIKI-TAKA A MUST HAVE (Can be done in FM)

Right Formation
Barcelona’s players if you notice, occupy spaces evenly across the field,providing Barca many more passing options whilst formulating an attack making it so effective. eg: Busquets sits just behind play-makers Andreas Iniesta and Xavi whilst guarding his side’s back 4 and wingers Pedro , Alexis Sanchez and David Villa (who obviously is unhappy now in Barca to play second fiddle) occupy either flank in an attacking midfield position leaving Lionel Messi to fight it out alone up top. 4-3-3, 3-4-3 should defenders got injured, doest matter, as long as u retain possesion heck i even played 4-1-5 with my team and won comfortably!

user posted image
user posted image
user posted image

Press when you have possession
Most teams cautiously play by withdrawing when opposition midfielders/defenders win back and recycle possession, Barcelona tend to do the exact opposite and push deeper up the pitch exerting even more pressure in an attempt to win the ball straight back.

in FM, close down opponents at full bar for your strikers wingers midfielders, except defensive midfield, defenders and wing backs

Utilise ‘Fake Number 9′ role
‘withdrawn number 9′ is key to Barcelona’s attack. First employed in El Classico against R.Madrid, Barcelona won 6-2 to effectiviness of this by Lionel Messi. The term ‘fake number 9′ describes ghosting in and out of a fake number 9 strikers role to exploit Defenders Man-Marking and Closing Down, creating spaces behind while he carries the ball.

in FM, a team’s centre forward needs to be very technical in this area, meaning good off the ball, technique, balance to hold up the ball, while drifting markers away, creating spaces for others. The replay matches i uploaded had some goals done effectively through this replication.

TeamWork and Discipline
-from wiki,
When Guardiola (as Barcelona B manager while Riijkard in charge of first team) re-organised the reserve side, he set up a three-staged program to formalise the advancement from Juvenil to Barcelona B and finally to the first team. The first stage of a youth player's career involves a rotation scheme with Barcelona B. The second stage involves making the player aware of his importance to the team, and expects the player to improve cohesion and performance within the reserve side. In the last stage, he is designated a "key" player of the B team and might be called to the first team. One of the players in the third phase is made captain, regardless of the experience of older players.
An aspect of Barcelonas youth academy La Masia is its marked catalan national character—local talent in the service of a club with a strong, defining sense of the cultural make-up of Catalonia.[28] The supporters often prefer locally-developed players to foreign players if the players are equally talented. In this way, the emphasis on homegrown talent concurs with UEFA's attempts to curb the influx of foreign players in clubs.[28] The head of UEFA, Michel Platini said: "Barcelona represent my philosophy, not only for the game, but also for the training of athletes".

in FM, focus on team blend, WEED OUT any players who disrupt team harmony, be a ferguson. Its MY way, or the highway. Let go of even key players who has the wrong attitude, decreasing team morale, wanting to transfer clubs. Set priority of match prep to 'Very High' in pre-season especially.


Weaknesses:
Waterlogged pitch (poor pitch condition), opponents play Park the Tank like Capello

While Chelsea play Barcelona when Mourinho was in charge, they purposely do not cut the grass of StamFord Bridge, it disrupted Barcelonas passing play, while Chelsea play a direct passing game and won the game and progress through the champions league quater final/semi
Mourinho devised another plan while with Inter, won against Barcelona when they close down and tight mark on both wing backs (key to Barcelona retain possession and confuse markers as to allow spaces for messi), as long as they won the ball, fast moving wingers grab, cut in, supply striker and score on counter-attack.

Park the tank is quite obvious, Capello said before if they have the ball , its ok. As long as they cannot do anything with the ball. (limit spaces) rigid play


Feel free to share and upload your tactics here, any inspiration or stories behind on why u like it , will be welcome! wub.gif

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My Tiki-Taka is taken to a new level after some minor tweaks to suit my own players, instead of following the real barcelona as my players as not as, technically as good.

Basically tiki-taka works in teams, when u have decent passers, creativity, decisions, positioning. It works on my cheap team .. still tweaking

I will share my tactics once u guys think it is very barcelona enough. Its only good to give the best to people aint it? Be patient!

to compare my match , pls watch the youtube video above if u have no idea how barcelona plays.

i will upload a video highlight, u all can watch and feel free to comment, criticise about it, to see if it really resembles barcelona. The objective is to make the tactic is Barcelona as possible. We are to replicate Barcelona.
BELOW is the download

Things to take note of:
What i have is a playmaker (Josue)
1) get the ball (you know already where your team-mates are and where they might run to; you know where your opponents are too)
2) control it instantly
3) shield the ball from your opponent (if you have to)
4) pass it to a team-mate, usually on the ground
5) find space, asking for the ball back if necessary
5) Repeat until AMC or ST (my team G.Pandev as Left Striker, Dan Cooper turned Rabello as injured by FCP vmad.gif as RAMC to replicate messis Withdrawn no 9 role) gets the ball

*Drawing man markers to the player while creating spaces for other people to run is very important. That is when opponents make mistakes, also comes this is free roaming of your own players to confuse markers

-Barcelona , when loose the ball, try to get it back as fast as possible. ...notice any barcelona play, on the opponents half, messi villa and iniesta, pedro, all closes down their opponent defenders, so that they only get 30m to run to goal when win back the ball, instead of waiting for defenders like the usual case to sweep, 70m and to restart another attack, which is my fav team Man Utd's demise, and SAF never learn from mistakes-
as a result, in my video , as close to barcelona as i can get,
Two goals from G. Pandev are by closing down and win the ball and score

The Porto team still has hulk with them, considering their key players are still intact, it is a success that i can pin down their attack and render them to just, long range predictable shots

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TACTICS TO DOWNLOAD LINK BELOW

I bet you will love it 100% like you are watching the champions league final 2011 MU vs Barca, if not, send me ur house address, i will buy you FM 2013 for free

-JeffDom is tiki-taka using Tactics Creator
-Jeff Angel is tiki-taka classic

-I recommend u try them both because I need feedbacks as FM use a new system to calculate projections and probablities with the Tactics creator, once u use it, i hope u will like it and stick to it, match preparation do set to highest for pre-season to get max effect



Slow Tempo, Short Passing, Zonal Marking, Tight Marking, Roam from Position are key of Tiki-Taka

feel free to tweak it to suit your own players smile.gif feedback is much much appreciated
set pieces for barcelona are all short, easy to make
I would be happy if any one interested in experimenting to replicate Barceona's tactic, using tactics creator to better effect smile.gif and share it here

Shouts during a play (optional)

Shorter Passing

Greater Creative Freedom

Zonal Marking

Heavier Pressing

Normal Tackling

More Roaming

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For those who are used to see Highlights of a game of a short 30 sec clips of You-Tube style Fast FAst Fast counter and cross or pass and shoot, the Blitzkreig, please remember, in tiki-taka
It is just......
More than just a player role

How many of you select a player’s role to suit his attributes?
Picking one role to get the best out of a single star will not have the same effect as picking 11 roles to form a team unit.
For instance, I’m sure Pedro and Villa of Barcelona would prefer to be played as the lone striker, but Guardiola sees them as instrumental to a bigger picture. They both tend to start out wide in order to offer their threat from the wings cutting inside and causing havoc. Add to this the fact that Barcelona’s formation can transform into a three man attack and you’ll see Pep’s thought process.

The same can be said for a central midfield three; the roles you hand out in midfield can transform a good tactic into an incredible one. And the beauty is all these roles should vary depending on your style of play. For instance, if you like to play a more direct style within a 4-5-1 formation, you’d be best organising your players into three categories, defensive, attacking and supporting. A poacher works well upfront so he can chase long looping passes and also wingers as opposed to wide midfielders to dart down the flanks. Your midfield three should be assigned three different roles, all to cover the previously mentioned categories and therefore each phase of play.

Now what happens if we switch this more defensive and direct 4-5-1 into a more fluid and attacking tactic with short possession play? Well I wouldn’t recommend keeping the same player roles; in fact I’d change almost all of them. Remember with a direct and more defensive tactic you have little creativity to force an opening so instead find the team making long searching passes and therefore stretching the game. When you switch to a possession orientated tactic these roles should be adjusted to bring players closer together and therefore offer passing options within every phase of play. There’s no point in playing a short passing style if your players are separated like in the direct style mentioned above because part of keeping possession is having options to pass the ball.

Players that you should not sign:
Egoistic Selfish Players with Low Work Rate : C Ronaldo, Adebayor
Problematic Players who disrupt team harmony : C Tevez
Players who curl and cross to bend it like Beckham : G Bale, A Young
Strikers who does not run, who has no knack for goals, knack for goals but lazy poachers : E Heskey, Ruud Van Nistelrooy, D Berbatov


Players stats to look for when buying for tiki-taka
+creativity
+flair
+Acceleration and Pace for strikers
+Acceleration for full backs
+Decisions
+First Touch
+Agility
++Anticipation
++Passing
++Technique
++First Touch
++Off The Ball
++Work Rate


--Crossing
--Long Shots
--Jumping

This post has been edited by Jedi: Dec 5 2011, 07:34 PM


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Attached File  FCP_v_P._Ferreira_3.zip ( 20.43k ) Number of downloads: 2026
Attached File  TC_JeffDom__Man_Utd__Jun_2014_.zip ( 641bytes ) Number of downloads: 1637
Attached File  Jeff_s_Angel_Tic_Tac__Man_Utd__Aug_2014_.zip ( 632bytes ) Number of downloads: 1612
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Jedi
post Nov 22 2011, 11:26 PM


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This is the latest match about the tactics' effect.
I will check back this thread tomorrow and update it from time to time.

I can still lose... cry.gif despite playing good football, so...
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/46/pf...tatsmatchs.png/

This post has been edited by Jedi: Nov 22 2011, 11:46 PM


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Attached File  P._Ferreira_v_Braga.zip ( 20.03k ) Number of downloads: 332
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anechoic
post Nov 24 2011, 10:55 AM


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good info man.. i like what Guardiola said.. when you win the ball in oppossition half, only 30m away from goal instead of 90m.. biggrin.gif
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kurtkantoi
post Nov 24 2011, 02:43 PM


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Nice one Jedi. This tactic can only be implement with 'right' player is it? Its really hard to find a group of players that have decent passing, creativity, decision, and positioning but still cheap. No?
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Clerks
post Nov 24 2011, 08:31 PM


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Did you tweak your player instructions individualy?
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Jedi
post Nov 25 2011, 04:10 AM


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QUOTE(kurtkantoi @ Nov 24 2011, 02:43 PM)
Nice one Jedi. This tactic can only be implement with 'right' player is it? Its really hard to find a group of players that have decent passing, creativity, decision, and positioning but still cheap. No?
*
Any player, as long as they have passing, decision, positioning in general. U dont need to be barcelona to play liike barcelona, i have shown the clips above that a bottom club can made it to the top by playing like barcelona. (of course taking into consideration u have read through the attributes explained for general tactics info, a proper training schedule to train ur players and good coaches to train them in preffered moves - play one twos, short simple pass)
Passing, Decisions, Off the ball for attackers
Passing, Decisions, finishing and acceleration+pace for the withdrawn no 9 role

as long as the whole team has good passing, it means u will be xavi of the game. U are holding the ball at your feet, anything can happen, to waste time, attack or defend.

QUOTE(Clerks @ Nov 24 2011, 08:31 PM)
Did you tweak your player instructions individualy?
*
yes, this is very much needed. I will write a full article and update the first page in the weekend smile.gif its too tiring and busy on weekdays sorry guys
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Jedi
post Nov 25 2011, 06:05 PM


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Highest Ball Possession recorded so far, with 5 attackers flex.gif
of course, I dare , only against lower clubs with sure win, where their slow defenders chasing ghosts (joy to watch actually)

Tactics shared for download:refer first post




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normeck
post Dec 1 2011, 09:08 AM


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the tactics still same like FM2011?
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Jedi
post Dec 2 2011, 08:56 PM


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can replicate in FM 2011 too, no problem, or import vice versa
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leymahn
post Dec 2 2011, 09:50 PM


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how about playing tempo? slow/fast?
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Jedi
post Dec 3 2011, 02:03 AM


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super slow, two bars from the start (if by bar count)

ur job is to tire the defenders who run at u, closing down at u, while pass the ball around.
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sinoffire
post Dec 3 2011, 02:53 PM


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over 50 downloaders of the 3 tactics, but no reviews?? kamon gais.....
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gengstapo
post Dec 3 2011, 03:28 PM


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QUOTE(sinoffire @ Dec 3 2011, 02:53 PM)
over 50 downloaders of the 3 tactics, but no reviews?? kamon gais.....
*
U d/l & give us comment like ur previous "devasto"..
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-Wu-
post Dec 3 2011, 06:19 PM


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QUOTE(gengstapo @ Dec 3 2011, 03:28 PM)
U d/l & give us comment like ur previous "devasto"..
*
How to view the file anyway. Pls advise?
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gengstapo
post Dec 3 2011, 06:21 PM


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QUOTE(-Wu- @ Dec 3 2011, 06:19 PM)
How to view the file anyway. Pls advise?
*
D/load the file, open with FM la bro.. doh.gif laugh.gif

Edit: Damn man, after I read all these you are really patient playing this games. Not like us, tap tap tap all that & go.. Grats bro!

This post has been edited by gengstapo: Dec 3 2011, 06:29 PM
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sinoffire
post Dec 4 2011, 12:12 PM


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ok..aint sure dafuq is the .pkm file is all about....managed to DL the tactic in 1st post which is the one with "JeffDom" thingie. will try it out wif my Inter game and buzz u back.

*stupid stapo sendiri tak try suruh i try.* mad.gif tongue.gif
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Jedi
post Dec 4 2011, 02:23 PM


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Hi guys, i uploaded a new repolished tiki-taka (classic)
Sinnofire, use it too. we can prepare up to 3 tactics anyway

in tiki-taka there is no plan B, stick to it, and stick to it forever.

however change it acc to ur own plan, 3-4-3, 4-1-2-3, 4-1-2-2-1 , its up to u for the 3rd tactic. I bet u will like it! 100% guaranteed
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anechoic
post Dec 4 2011, 03:07 PM


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how about players speed? need fast players?
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Jedi
post Dec 4 2011, 07:40 PM


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well, better to have than not to have isnt it? if u have, then ur strikers have more chance of scoring, as i said, u need really technical players to play in this formation. Fast strikers are good especially on the counter (defending corners or free-kicks). I personally have Javier Hernandez, Benzema for that purpose and occasionally they do score on the break like that, *forward all the time in defending set-pieces*

tactics must be set to suit your own players, the ones i uploaded suit Man Utd of post-Fergie era *but with fergie players* - if u have a striker with good creativity, u should boost 2 bar up for example. wink.gif we just want the barcelona style, but not to follow strictly eg: messi dribble cuts inside and score. U can have your own passing passing create space and score moments. As long as u feel like u are watching barcelona plays, thumbup.gif


Added on December 4, 2011, 11:25 pm
QUOTE(anechoic @ Dec 4 2011, 03:07 PM)
how about players speed? need fast players?
*
IRL, the question could be posed to chelsea now. in the game, I trust u have better coaching skills than Andres Villas Boas (because i do, at least in FM)

QUOTE
Andrés Villas-Boas' Chelsea side and Roberto Mancini's Manchester City side have many similarities off the field. Both clubs have foreign owners that have invested huge sums of money into building championship caliber sides by signing the biggest stars they possibly could.

However, this season, and the arrival of Villas-Boas in particular, has seen one major similarity develop on the field.

While the teams' respective success has been contrasting, with City running away with the Premier Division lead and Chelsea struggling with an aging and inconsistent team, both sides have the same core values to their identity on the field.

Petr Cech recently told Chelsea fans to blame the players rather than their new young coach for Chelsea's issues this season, and to an extent he is right.

There is a saying that once you make it to the top, you should never change what it is that allowed you to get to there in the first place. Villas-Boas has stuck to this principle by installing the same tactics that he used at Porto last season. - There is also no Plan B for me, in my tiki-taka

Tactics that Roberto Mancini's Manchester City side are executing to perfection this year.

Villas-Boas' vision is clear. Similarly to that of Barcelona under Pep Guardiola, his Chelsea side have attempted to pressure the opposition this year high up the field while playing a high defensive line.

The 34-year-old manager has never spent more than one season at any football club but was able to instantly implement his ideas wherever he was. That has not happened at Chelsea because of the limitations of the squad that he inherited.

When Roberto Mancini took over Manchester City two seasons ago, he was regularly criticized for being too defensive and cautious. What Mancini was also doing during this time however was establishing the most important piece to what is now the team's tactical identity.

Unlike John Terry, Alex and David Luiz, Mancini established a defensive line with the defenders who fit his system. Vincent Kompany, Kolo Toure and Joleon Lescott all have the right combination of size, speed and intelligence to play in space.

This isn't something that can be said about any combination of Terry, Alex or Luiz.

While Terry and Alex are simply too slow and not agile enough to stick with strikers on the counter or intercept passes that are being made under duress, David Luiz is too rash and a liability in one on one situations. - Your question and problem  brows.gif

Kompany, Lescott or Toure may not be the most celebrated of center backs but their solid showings at the back have been crucial for City's performances so far this season.

Mancini's real work began with the team's midfield however.

Of the five players that started the 1-1 draw in Anfield today, only two were at the club when Mancini arrived. It comes as no surprise that those two players were the two hardest working players at the club also.

James Milner and Gareth Barry are often overshadowed by the quality of David Silva and Yaya Touré, however their energy and defensive workrate is a vital cog in the Manchester City machine.

When you compare the trio of midfielders involved for City compared to Chelsea, there is a significant gap in athleticism. Frank Lampard and John Obi Mikel have never been work horses in the middle of the field while Ramires has been very inconsistent during his Chelsea career.

Trying to press opposing midfielders with Mikel and Lampard in the side is essentially impossible. Unlike a Barry, Milner or Touré opposing midfielders will have no problem getting their head up and picking out a pass or running with the ball.

Mancini brought in Samir Nasri, Sergio Aguero and David Silva to bring the class and clinicism to the City attack that had been lacking in recent years. The quality that the trio brought in attack doesn't diminish the defensive contributions that they make also.

Silva, Nasri and Aguero, Dzeko to an extent also, are all agile and speedy receivers that are willing to put in a shift when asked to.

If you compare that with a trio of Fernando Torres or Didier Drogba, with Juan Mata and Florent Malouda. Outside of Mata, none of the trio upfront fit the system. The older forwards at Chelsea don't play with the same energy as the youthful forward line combinations that Manchester City can field.

As a team, Chelsea's attempts at pressuring the opposition are made redundant by the personnel.

Defending is a team effort and the Chelsea defenders are sold short by what they are asked to do and by what their midfielders are asked to do.

Because the team's midfielders cannot force the opposition into poor decisions or rush them into longer passes, the defenders at the back cannot take advantage of pressure. Under Roberto Mancini, Vincent Kompany and Joleon Lescott more often than not get what every center back wants, a long ball from the back straight down the field.

That is something that is created by the forward line.

Nasri and David Silva may be creating plenty of goals at one end, but they are preventing plenty at the other end also.

Chelsea's Roman Abramovich may be hoping for a quick fix to Chelsea's problems after throwing £15 million to bring in a manager that has had instant success elsewhere. However he is throwing in the wrong direction.

As Petr Cech said, the players are the problem at Chelsea, not the manager.




This post has been edited by Jedi: Dec 4 2011, 11:25 PM
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gengstapo
post Dec 5 2011, 03:45 AM


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TBH, I really like this method. It really give a strong chances for smaller team to play against top one. I have build my own so called Tiki taka, & it in testin' lab currently tongue.gif
I will share mine after I finish 1 whole season with my new team rclxms.gif tongue.gif

Grats bro! biggrin.gif


This post has been edited by gengstapo: Dec 5 2011, 04:04 AM
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anechoic
post Dec 5 2011, 09:30 AM


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thanks for the advice, master jedi. smile.gif I am thinking to start a game with West Ham, win promotion and go to Europe in 2nd season..hehe.

ps: btw, where's the article from?
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gengstapo
post Dec 5 2011, 09:43 AM


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Weird, my Tiki cant really control game possession but still manage to win so far. Played 15 games, only draw 3, loses 1 & balance win tongue.gif

I really love this method!
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sickx
post Dec 5 2011, 09:55 AM


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i've tried your tactics but not really smooth.my malaga really controlled the possession.passing completion was around 80-90%.but sadly the wins just 1-0 or 2-0.maybe i don't have any trequartista in my team.i used yaya sanogo in the middle.i think i'll stick with il devas atm until end of season and start with this tactic during preseason.

question:why does the tactic set as counter instead of control?most of the tiki takas i knew in fm-base all of them were set as control.
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gengstapo
post Dec 5 2011, 10:03 AM


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QUOTE(sickx @ Dec 5 2011, 09:55 AM)
i've tried your tactics but not really smooth.my malaga really controlled the possession.passing completion was around 80-90%.but sadly the wins just 1-0 or 2-0.maybe i don't have any trequartista in my team.i used yaya sanogo in the middle.i think i'll stick with il devas atm until end of season and start with this tactic during preseason.

question:why does the tactic set as counter instead of control?most of the tiki takas i knew in fm-base all of them were set as control.
*
Well, winning is better than losing aite?? Im on the same boat. My tactic cant really hold much possession, average 60% total after 15 games. But still can win that the important.. Maintain the run. rclxms.gif

My setup is like this:

DR - DCR - DCL - DL

----------DM

-------------MCL

-------AMCR

IF(A) - STC - W(S)

This post has been edited by gengstapo: Dec 5 2011, 10:08 AM
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Jedi
post Dec 5 2011, 07:14 PM


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yes, winning 1-0 2-0
QUOTE
That is how Spain plays! How Barca plays! in two-horse La Liga, ->(u could go up to 4,5-0 if u play as Man Utd Barca R Madrid with fast strikers, and against lower teams), but thats how spain plays...they play beautifully while slowing tempo, finding spaces in between.



Thats my objective, thats Barcelona's objective, to play as a team. Its no longer 30 sec clip for youtube upload of a goal , but a 2 minute long build-up , its really beautiful if you watch Champions League Final of your team, full match like that actually (though I dont anyway lol unless u got the time)
Guardiola signed David Villa not to get the best out of him or to fit tactics into him so he can still be a target man, but to get him to fit into an already complete system, to get him to work as a team, to supply and to score goals. He was more often being used as inside forward supporting Messi

2nd priority: score 4-0, 5-0 and have risky possession with opponents making me heart attack. (as i said previously scoring is too easy, i want to play beautifully tongue.gif) the youtube video of tiki-taka on first page said it all, FM is just merely our tool to replicate what they do in real life, to as realistic as possible

@gengstapo, u need to individual focus train your players to pass the ball well, limit creativity if they have not, enhance when they have flair and creativeness

+ i recommend acceleration and pace 15 for your wing-backs(full backs - eg Rafael Fabio D Alves style) , striker like J Hernandez

- U dont need long shooting players
- U dont need Gareth Bale style of players (crossing, strength)


Added on December 5, 2011, 7:17 pm
QUOTE(sickx @ Dec 5 2011, 09:55 AM)
i've tried your tactics but not really smooth.my malaga really controlled the possession.passing completion was around 80-90%.but sadly the wins just 1-0 or 2-0.maybe i don't have any trequartista in my team.i used yaya sanogo in the middle.i think i'll stick with il devas atm until end of season and start with this tactic during preseason.

question:why does the tactic set as counter instead of control?most of the tiki takas i knew in fm-base all of them were set as control.
*
@sickx, try the latest tactic (JeffAngel) I hope u have better scores now smile.gif

More than just a player role

Update from first post:
How many of you select a player’s role to suit his attributes? -
Picking one role to get the best out of a single star will not have the same effect as picking 11 roles to form a team unit.
Forget about getting your Niang to score 40 goals a season, or your usual 'Xavi' to assist 40 goals per season to your Target Man.
For instance, I’m sure Pedro and Villa of Barcelona would prefer to be played as the lone striker, but Guardiola sees them as instrumental to a bigger picture. They both tend to start out wide in order to offer their threat from the wings cutting inside and causing havoc. Add to this the fact that Barcelona’s formation can transform into a three man attack and you’ll see Pep’s thought process.

The same can be said for a central midfield three; the roles you hand out in midfield can transform a good tactic into an incredible one. And the beauty is all these roles should vary depending on your style of play. For instance, if you like to play a more direct style within a 4-5-1 formation, you’d be best organising your players into three categories, defensive, attacking and supporting. A poacher works well upfront so he can chase long looping passes and also wingers as opposed to wide midfielders to dart down the flanks. Your midfield three should be assigned three different roles, all to cover the previously mentioned categories and therefore each phase of play.

Now what happens if we switch this more defensive and direct 4-5-1 into a more fluid and attacking tactic with short possession play? Well I wouldn’t recommend keeping the same player roles; in fact I’d change almost all of them. Remember with a direct and more defensive tactic you have little creativity to force an opening so instead find the team making long searching passes and therefore stretching the game. When you switch to a possession orientated tactic these roles should be adjusted to bring players closer together and therefore offer passing options within every phase of play. There’s no point in playing a short passing style if your players are separated like in the direct style mentioned above because part of keeping possession is having options to pass the ball.


Added on December 5, 2011, 7:38 pm
QUOTE(anechoic @ Dec 5 2011, 09:30 AM)
thanks for the advice, master jedi. smile.gif I am thinking to start a game with West Ham, win promotion and go to Europe in 2nd season..hehe.

ps: btw, where's the article from?
*
bleachreport.com

I love to read the articles there, they provide good info on real-life tactics and players activities

This post has been edited by Jedi: Dec 5 2011, 07:41 PM
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gengstapo
post Dec 9 2011, 08:31 AM


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Yaww master Jedi, "Slow Tempo, Short Passing, Zonal Marking, Tight Marking, Roam from Position are key of Tiki-Taka"

The bold one, is it mean roaming enable for each player or just the team instruction or both player & team instruction?? hmm.gif sweat.gif cool2.gif
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Jedi
post Dec 9 2011, 10:30 PM


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yes smile.gif except for left back, your sweeper, others are encouraged to roam.
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gengstapo
post Dec 10 2011, 12:02 AM


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QUOTE(Jedi @ Dec 9 2011, 10:30 PM)
yes smile.gif except for left back, your sweeper, others are encouraged to roam.
*
So, thats mean the "More Roaming" at Team Instruction set to enable plus each player instruction correct?
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Jedi
post Dec 10 2011, 12:10 AM


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put it at default, since personal instructions for players override team, so it does not matter

U dont want ur keeper to roam around do u? and have goal of the century beckham style against u...
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skystrike
post Dec 13 2011, 03:10 PM


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i tried your tactic and its working on formation 4-3-3 , 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 but it seem not working on formation 4-4-2...everytime i use 4-4-2 my team although can control possesion more than 55% but it will end up lose, draw or win 1-0/slight margin.....maybe need more tweaking on tactic.. hmm.gif hmm.gif
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Jedi
post Dec 13 2011, 06:24 PM


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QUOTE(skystrike @ Dec 13 2011, 03:10 PM)
i tried your tactic and its working on formation 4-3-3 , 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 but it seem not working on formation 4-4-2...everytime i use 4-4-2 my team although can control possesion more than 55% but it will end up lose, draw or win 1-0/slight margin.....maybe need more tweaking on tactic.. hmm.gif  hmm.gif
*
it was NEVER meant to be a 4-4-2, did u read the first post? Please read the first post before getting excited about trying tiki-taka guys!

QUOTE
THINGS IN TIKI-TAKA A MUST HAVE (Can be done in FM)

Right Formation
Barcelona’s players if you notice, occupy spaces evenly across the field,providing Barca many more passing options whilst formulating an attack making it so effective. eg: Busquets sits just behind play-makers Andreas Iniesta and Xavi whilst guarding his side’s back 4 and wingers Pedro , Alexis Sanchez and David Villa (who obviously is unhappy now in Barca to play second fiddle) occupy either flank in an attacking midfield position leaving Lionel Messi to fight it out alone up top. 4-3-3, 3-4-3 should defenders got injured, doest matter, as long as u retain possesion heck i even played 4-1-5 with my team and won comfortably!


NO wingers, thats so english , with the run run dribble to side and cross and head
NO Citeh style, David Silva dribble dribble feed ball in blitzkrieg tap up or volley by dzeko (so risky for tiki-taka, easily intercepted esp if Man City will play Barca)

The key thing is to focus pass down the middle.
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skystrike
post Dec 13 2011, 09:28 PM


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QUOTE(Jedi @ Dec 13 2011, 06:24 PM)
it was NEVER meant to be a 4-4-2, did u read the first post? Please read the first post before getting excited about trying tiki-taka guys!
NO wingers, thats so english , with the run run dribble to side and cross and head
NO Citeh style, David Silva dribble dribble feed ball in blitzkrieg tap up or volley by dzeko (so risky for tiki-taka, easily intercepted esp if Man City will play Barca)

The key thing is to focus pass down the middle.
*
no wonder la... tongue.gif
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post Dec 14 2011, 08:45 PM


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Wow. I've tried building this tactic up myself based on what I've read here. It really works man. I'm averaging 60 - 70% possession and 20+ shots on goal. Now if only I could get the shot accuracies up (less than half on target). I'm making do with my original wingers on the left and right of the false 9 and I guess their lack of finishing is affecting me.

One question though. My assistant manager keeps telling me the gap between my midfield and defence is too big and can be exploited. Any ideas how to solve this? Or is it irrelevant?
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skystrike
post Dec 17 2011, 07:24 PM


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finally got successfully implement tiki-taka tactic...but my player easily got injured when using this tactic...injury list getting longer...it is just me to experience this issue?? rclxub.gif
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Jedi
post Dec 18 2011, 03:48 AM


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QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Dec 14 2011, 08:45 PM)
Wow. I've tried building this tactic up myself based on what I've read here. It really works man. I'm averaging 60 - 70% possession and 20+ shots on goal. Now if only I could get the shot accuracies up (less than half on target). I'm making do with my original wingers on the left and right of the false 9 and I guess their lack of finishing is affecting me.

One question though. My assistant manager keeps telling me the gap between my midfield and defence is too big and can be exploited. Any ideas how to solve this? Or is it irrelevant?
*
normally its irrelevant, bec when u see the game in highlights ur players passes so well that the midfield presses up so far high up in the opponents defense area (which is what real life Barca is doing)

against Real Madrid and matches where u see strong teams using fast wingers to counter u *because tiki-taka focus pass on middle*, apply a 4-1-2-2-1 formation instead of 4-1-2-3 , 4-2-3-1 instead of 3-4-3 will distribute your players wider to solve those problems

QUOTE(skystrike @ Dec 17 2011, 07:24 PM)
finally got successfully implement tiki-taka tactic...but my player easily got injured when using this tactic...injury list getting longer...it is just me to experience this issue?? rclxub.gif
*
i dont think it has anything to do with tactics, rather the problem of physio, your players natural fitness and injury prone *hidden attribute* or simply tired not enough rest and playing non-stop. Try to reduce burden on training, and physio increase in no
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gengstapo
post Dec 18 2011, 11:11 PM


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QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Dec 14 2011, 08:45 PM)
Wow. I've tried building this tactic up myself based on what I've read here. It really works man. I'm averaging 60 - 70% possession and 20+ shots on goal. Now if only I could get the shot accuracies up (less than half on target). I'm making do with my original wingers on the left and right of the false 9 and I guess their lack of finishing is affecting me.

One question though. My assistant manager keeps telling me the gap between my midfield and defence is too big and can be exploited. Any ideas how to solve this? Or is it irrelevant?
*
Hmm I think I found the "not accuracy" problem. Try decrease your attacker "Creative", sure can score a lot biggrin.gif
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post Dec 20 2011, 07:57 PM


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QUOTE(Jedi @ Dec 18 2011, 03:48 AM)
normally its irrelevant, bec when u see the game in highlights ur players passes so well that the midfield presses up so far high up in the opponents defense area (which is what real life Barca is doing)

against Real Madrid and matches where u see strong teams using fast wingers to counter u *because tiki-taka focus pass on middle*, apply a 4-1-2-2-1 formation instead of 4-1-2-3 , 4-2-3-1 instead of 3-4-3 will distribute your players wider to solve those problems
i dont think it has anything to do with tactics, rather the problem of physio, your players natural fitness and injury prone *hidden attribute* or simply tired not enough rest and playing non-stop. Try to reduce burden on training, and physio increase in no
*
I see. I'll ignore those instructions, then.

I suppose the 4-1-2-2-1 is something like this?
http://www.fmformation.net/fm09-tactics-tr...-1-2-2-1-a.html
By pinning their fullbacks back with the wingers right? My formation is similar to your Jeff's Angel Tic Tac Aug 2014. So I have STL and STR pressing there.

Currently my midfield is 3 flat MCs, unlike yours which is more of a DMC + 2 MCs. I plan to push the middle MC back to a DMC like yours, as well as make both CBs stay back and push both fullbacks up more, like Barcelona, since I have reasonably good fullbacks.

Am I making any sense? Lol.

QUOTE(gengstapo @ Dec 18 2011, 11:11 PM)
Hmm I think I found the "not accuracy" problem. Try decrease your attacker "Creative", sure can score a lot biggrin.gif
*
I'll try that. Thanks!!

Not sure what the reasoning is though. Less creativity means shoot more, pass less?
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gengstapo
post Dec 20 2011, 10:24 PM


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QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Dec 20 2011, 07:57 PM)
Not sure what the reasoning is though. Less creativity means shoot more, pass less?
*
Yes, they wont pass the ball around too much
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post Dec 20 2011, 11:50 PM


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QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Dec 20 2011, 07:57 PM)
I see. I'll ignore those instructions, then.

I suppose the 4-1-2-2-1 is something like this?
http://www.fmformation.net/fm09-tactics-tr...-1-2-2-1-a.html
By pinning their fullbacks back with the wingers right? My formation is similar to your Jeff's Angel Tic Tac Aug 2014. So I have STL and STR pressing there.

Currently my midfield is 3 flat MCs, unlike yours which is more of a DMC + 2 MCs. I plan to push the middle MC back to a DMC like yours, as well as make both CBs stay back and push both fullbacks up more, like Barcelona, since I have reasonably good fullbacks.

Am I making any sense? Lol.
I'll try that. Thanks!!

Not sure what the reasoning is though. Less creativity means shoot more, pass less?
*
if you have a classic box-to-box midfielder like Patrick Vieira Edgar Davids o Roy keane style to sweep the ball when drop back, I dont see a problem doing with 3 CM smile.gif
These days football are very position-based, those players are of the past, no more ballacks, I.E Mascherano Busquets adopt a very defensive approach, so does Claude Makelele style modern manager prefers, so that attacking midfielders have all the time to flair their creativities without needing to help out in the defence.
The reason I have DMC Phil Jones, is because I dont trust fully Smalling and Evans, being their marking heading tackling at a medial 15 for centre-backs, so I have one to drop back - the same with barcelona, pique tends to play higher up the pitch as ball-playing defender, at times striker by free-rolling. Mascherano will cover for him should opposition intercept the ball to try a counter, and thus I concede record only 7 goals EPL season - 24 clean sheets before losing to everton yesterday on my game sad.gif *picture on the other discussion thread*

pray that mourinho or Alan Shearer does not play your team, because I nearly lost to mourinho He likes to close down on all of my players with hard tackles, technical players very much needed to avoid possible losing possession. Shearer likes to play a quick tempo, passing game and the park the tank 5-3-2 after 1-0, i played him 3 times, nearly lost twice, 1-0 lost last game sad.gif

QUOTE(gengstapo @ Dec 20 2011, 10:24 PM)
Yes, they wont pass the ball around too much
*
uh...not quite so. Attacking players with creativity >18 should have full creativity freedom, or 1 to 2 clicks down. because creativity means, ability to see things on the pitch. <--refer attributes explained thread for better review

pass less means he would have PPM dwells on ball, or u ask him to hold up the ball more

creative players without flair would simply pass the ball to launch potential attacks, but if strikers have poor off the ball, u can expect a fruitless attack.
creative players with poor passing ability will launch a pass into defender or keepers rushing feet
creative players with good decisions will launch passes which cut through hot butter like fabregas
creative players, good decisions, good flair will launch a Scholsey type of pass , direct and beautiful

smile.gif try to search for finishing strikers like Hernandez - finishing, agility(benzema), decisions, off the ball >17 , solve all problems of ur scoring



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driftmeister
post Dec 25 2011, 10:32 PM


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using it. only downside for me is that the full backs langsung dont cross the ball, and very often will loss possession when trying to work the ball into the box.
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Jedi
post Dec 26 2011, 02:28 AM


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if your full bac got >15 crosses, then put it to 'sometimes' my CBs put long direct crosses to strikers even though were instructed to 'rarely'...

@2nd problem, very techincal players with good finishers are really needed...tiki-taka is not for poor technical players..
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apisfires
post Dec 26 2011, 10:34 PM


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QUOTE(Jedi @ Dec 26 2011, 02:28 AM)
if your full bac got >15 crosses, then put it to 'sometimes' my CBs put long direct crosses to strikers even though were instructed to 'rarely'...

@2nd problem, very techincal players with good finishers are really needed...tiki-taka is not for poor technical players..
*
thanks dude, my plymouth player play like barca at league 2, now got up division to league 1.... rclxms.gif
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post Dec 27 2011, 09:42 AM


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Oh yeah guys for whoever is using this tactic, do you mind checking the tactics analysis and see how many passes your players (continuously) make in the buildup to scoring a goal from open play?

If you make 20+ passes before scoring a goal I'd say that you're emulating Barca well enough

If my players would only learn to to take long shots whenever they can sweat.gif , adjusting the long shots instructions does not seem to help that much hmm.gif
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Jedi
post Dec 27 2011, 06:41 PM


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no, long shots should be set to rarely. (tic-tac does not takes risks)

apisfires you are welcome!
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exkaizen
post Dec 27 2011, 11:37 PM


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Managing N9 Betaria (Malaysia Premier League)... using the tactic in this thread and adjust it a bit according to my player pool... so far possession more than 60% entire game... able to score at least 2 goal... but having problem with opposition manage to score against me between kick-off till first 15 minutes...

Since using it half of the season... not able to secure promotion...

It might be I don't have a good defence.. T.T

Thanks for a great tips & tactics

This post has been edited by exkaizen: Dec 28 2011, 02:44 PM
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post Dec 28 2011, 12:32 PM


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Thanks for all the tips, Jedi and et al.

I haven't played a lot as I've been too busy lately.

Anyways, I've become the king of 1-0s lol. Consistently getting 1 - 0 and the occasional 2 - 0.

Best defence in the league, but maybe around 2nd or 3rd best attack.

Possession has been great, but as usual, the team can get 20+ shots on goal, but less than half on target.

I was unbeaten this season, until the team got knocked out of the League Cup to, of all teams, Man City. vmad.gif Even then, it was 1 - 1 at full time and they knicked it in extra time. I guess that's what happens when I play the B team against them. brows.gif

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Jedi
post Dec 28 2011, 06:01 PM


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the 1-0 2-0s i supposed, stem from this?

Park the Bus, i get that too, but IMO Javier Hernandez (excellent finishing and quickness) is a little over-rated, keeps scoring and solves this problem by being my centre man..

user posted image

user posted image


of course, I lose matches too, I lost twice in BPL latest season of my game 17-18, one from set piece, one from the genius alan shearer who is my jinx...always wins or draw or lose narrowly...(counter attack+superman keeper when against Man Utd, park the bus)

I told the press I have no idea how I lost that game...haha

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anechoic
post Dec 28 2011, 07:06 PM


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hey jedi, i guess i have the same problem as newbie too. I am trying your tactics for MU, just wondering how you get them score more?? maybe just need to play more games?? haha...


Added on December 28, 2011, 7:08 pmi notice in ur other post rooney had like 43 goals and hernandez 64.. thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by anechoic: Dec 28 2011, 07:08 PM
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Jedi
post Dec 28 2011, 07:21 PM


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QUOTE(anechoic @ Dec 28 2011, 07:06 PM)
hey jedi, i guess i have the same problem as newbie too. I am trying your tactics for MU, just wondering how you get them score more?? maybe just need to play more games?? haha...


Added on December 28, 2011, 7:08 pmi notice in ur other post rooney had like 43 goals and hernandez 64.. thumbup.gif
*
on average, the score should be 2-0 for every match come the end of season with frequent 1-0s vs strong teams, 3/4-0 vs weak teams, and minimal losses throughout the season.
I just want to play beautiful football, not goals galore...its boring after 4 seasons of FM series for me with 130+ goals per season but heart attack moments of risky, direct, fast tempo game. now I concede <9 goals per EPL..
to score goals like me...uhhh utilise them on cup games, I am not the exact SAF type, since i rotate practically all 11 men for every match *2 sets of players*, so if they happen to play against weaker EPL or cup teams, they score more. Hernandez is a little imba on form *like the CM 01/02 dude*

+ I do exploit the corner attack near post to get wins .. as u can see from the squad screen on another thread tongue.gif


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SGSuser
post Dec 28 2011, 07:44 PM


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tested against a korean club in pre season friendly last nite, won 1-3 with 64%....need more advices

issit put all 10 outfield players passing as short? or just from midfield to strikers?

wingers put run with ball often or rarely?

wingers/full backs crossing put high or medium or low?

anyway, great tactic to explore apart from the usual direct football tactic i've been using since fm07 thumbup.gif
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post Dec 28 2011, 08:51 PM


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QUOTE(SGSuser @ Dec 28 2011, 07:44 PM)
tested against a korean club in pre season friendly last nite, won 1-3 with 64%....need more advices

issit put all 10 outfield players passing as short? or just from midfield to strikers?

wingers put run with ball often or rarely?

wingers/full backs crossing put high or medium or low?

anyway, great tactic to explore apart from the usual direct football tactic i've been using since fm07 thumbup.gif
*
widemen/fullbacks - cross or not depends on the ability, if got more than 15, can set to sometimes.

for me. i adjusted the 2CMs and frontmen as mixed. team instructions as long.
last time only 0-0, 1-0 or lost. now can get all win in La Liga with my Malaga. (Huntelaar as STC) tongue.gif


if still cant manage to find the net, try to set the STR STL creativity to highest

This post has been edited by driftmeister: Dec 28 2011, 09:00 PM
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post Dec 28 2011, 09:11 PM


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QUOTE(Jedi @ Dec 28 2011, 07:21 PM)
on average, the score should be 2-0 for every match come the end of season with frequent 1-0s vs strong teams, 3/4-0 vs weak teams, and minimal losses throughout the season.
I just want to play beautiful football, not goals galore...its boring after 4 seasons of FM series for me with 130+ goals per season but heart attack moments of risky, direct, fast tempo game. now I concede <9 goals per EPL..
to score goals like me...uhhh utilise them on cup games, I am not the exact SAF type, since i rotate practically all 11 men for every match *2 sets of players*, so if they happen to play against weaker EPL or cup teams, they score more. Hernandez is a little imba on form *like the CM 01/02 dude*

+ I do exploit the corner attack near post to get wins .. as u can see from the squad screen on another thread  tongue.gif
*
icic..guess kinda frustating since many chance to score but cannot find the net. and the media expects to beat the small team with great margins..haha.
but its good not to concede much since the the devastato tactic is good in offence but concedes a number of goals.

thinking to get a really good free kick specialist since always get foul near the penalty box.. laugh.gif


Added on December 30, 2011, 10:15 pmusing this tactic makes Nani play like a half-Messi on the right..haha

This post has been edited by anechoic: Dec 30 2011, 10:15 PM
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post Jan 5 2012, 10:33 AM


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Finally won the league. Using nothing but the tactic inspired by Jedi's tic-tac. Thanks dude!! Very satisfying!!

There're still many areas for improvement, though. While I have the best defence in the league by a mile, I only have the 5th or 6th best attack. sweat.gif I'm still tweaking it and there are slight changes here and there that I'm planning. Like adding the near post on corners trick. That trick works up to which version of FM2012?

I've also changed the way I deploy the front 3 attackers, making the two wide attackers my finishers and setting them to swap positions and put minimal crosses and through balls, while putting my high creativity and passing attackers in the middle with through ball sometimes.

My toughest matches have all been against rivals. E.g. City is practically invincible. sweat.gif Luckily my team was the more consistent team.
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post Jan 5 2012, 03:14 PM


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yeah, swap positions smile.gif thats what i do, bec u know..the opponents..

wide attackers have play through balls, play one-twos as well, thats how barca plays, with bojan and javier hernandez preffered moves, as well as rooney, things go easy really smile.gif tutor the youths

corner trick works up to before the christmas patch, (i dont know whats the version)
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post Jan 6 2012, 11:45 AM


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QUOTE(Jedi @ Jan 5 2012, 03:14 PM)
yeah, swap positions smile.gif thats what i do, bec u know..the opponents..

wide attackers have play through balls, play one-twos as well, thats how barca plays, with bojan and javier hernandez preffered moves, as well as rooney, things go easy really smile.gif tutor the youths

corner trick works up to before the christmas patch, (i dont know whats the version)
*
Yeah, I've been doing that, but I used to put my finisher in the middle and wingers on the wings with through ball "sometimes". Now I put the finishers on the wings with through balls set to "rare" and a sorta playmaker in the middle.

But I did miss out something. I realise I'm not making full use of the PPMs as I've been too lazy to go through each player's attributes, possible positions, etc. I'll start them on the "plays one-twos". Maybe that's my missing link. lol.

I've basically been trying to build the whole tactic from scratch based on the philosophies and tips given in this thread without referring to your tic tac. I'm realising that FM has so much detail in the tactics and training screen these days. Nothing like what it used to be. It's hard to incorporate every detail as I don't even know about them or don't know how to use them.

This post has been edited by +Newbie+: Jan 6 2012, 11:58 AM
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post Jan 6 2012, 12:04 PM


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QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Jan 6 2012, 11:45 AM)
Yeah, I've been doing that, but I used to put my finisher in the middle and wingers on the wings with through ball "sometimes". Now I put the finishers on the wings with through balls set to "rare" and a sorta playmaker in the middle.

But I did miss out something. I realise I'm not making full use of the PPMs as I've been too lazy to go through each player's attributes, possible positions, etc. I'll start them on the "plays one-twos". Maybe that's my missing link. lol.

I've basically been trying to build the whole tactic from scratch based on the philosophies and tips given in this thread without referring to your tic tac. I'm realising that FM has so much detail in the tactics and training screen these days. Nothing like what it used to be. It's hard to incorporate every detail as I don't even know about them or don't know how to use them.
*
Yup... I've tried also to build the whole tactic from scratch like you but it hard actually as I don't know some of the changes in the player setting will result into... T.T
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post Jan 6 2012, 12:37 PM


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QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Jan 6 2012, 11:45 AM)
Yeah, I've been doing that, but I used to put my finisher in the middle and wingers on the wings with through ball "sometimes". Now I put the finishers on the wings with through balls set to "rare" and a sorta playmaker in the middle.

But I did miss out something. I realise I'm not making full use of the PPMs as I've been too lazy to go through each player's attributes, possible positions, etc. I'll start them on the "plays one-twos". Maybe that's my missing link. lol.

I've basically been trying to build the whole tactic from scratch based on the philosophies and tips given in this thread without referring to your tic tac. I'm realising that FM has so much detail in the tactics and training screen these days. Nothing like what it used to be. It's hard to incorporate every detail as I don't even know about them or don't know how to use them.
*
I think building the whole tactic from scratch should be the way. I don't understand why so many players like to utilise others' tactics or training programs. In the end, coming up with your own tactic and training is part of the realism of the game. I've been playing CM/FM for over 10 years now and I've always created my own tactics back when it was dragging arrows forwards and backwards. That's the part of the game that I enjoy the most besides buying and training up youngsters. I've never been a fan of buying expensive players and only do it when absolutely necessary.

My current tactic is a simple 4-4-2 which uses short passes, slow tempo and wingers. The only variations I have for this tactic is for my QPR team which I play a little more defensive. I'll share my tactic later together with some screenshots of my game. But what I'm most proud of is that this is my own tactic and training program that has brought my team success and not someone's tried and tested tactic.
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post Jan 6 2012, 05:03 PM


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thats very harsh. Had I wanted to show off my tactics I would just post

The Ultimate Tiki-Taka Tactic by the Great Jeff Alexander FM expert

instead of writing such a long article and Tic-Tacs philosophies and guidance for those who want to write barcelona's total football revolution would I not?

My tactics uploaded were meant to only be a guide, I did say, do tweak it according to your team and play to player's strength

Dont like, Dont see. Dont bother. Dont even enter.
Its for fans who love to watch beautiful football and try to emulate them.
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post Jan 6 2012, 05:28 PM


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QUOTE(Jedi @ Jan 6 2012, 05:03 PM)
thats very harsh. Had I wanted to show off my tactics I would just post

The Ultimate Tiki-Taka Tactic by the Great Jeff Alexander FM expert

instead of writing such a long article and Tic-Tacs philosophies and guidance for those who want to write barcelona's total football revolution would I not?

My tactics uploaded were meant to only be a guide, I did say, do tweak it according to your team and play to player's strength

Dont like, Dont see. Dont bother. Dont even enter.
Its for fans who love to watch beautiful football and try to emulate them.
*
^ this.
ei, ur game sampai year 2019 edi. what's ur "project" after this? brows.gif brows.gif

initially i wanted to start wigan game, but then i thot again:
1)bolton bottom of the table IRL now.
2)not being taken over by tycoon. *have they?? i not sure. FM-ers care to confirm this one?*

how?? brows.gif brows.gif

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Jedi
post Jan 6 2012, 05:46 PM


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well, i really want to have next project too, but my salary is abit too high, scare off all teams at 300k per week

I will think of resigning after I train my next rooney Uwe Baier to germany national team, he scores 32 goals for me that last season..played 60% of games, but still not called up yet sad.gif

maybe ill try out Osasuna(when they sack their manager, i resign n apply, Liga Adelante also nvm) , since I miss pamplona so much after been there last summer. or Athletic, bec my time at spain manager, iker muniain is godlike, Llorente is 101 better than heskey and scores till age 34, still 20+ goals per season.

AC Milan got Northern Irish tycoon, always 5 star reputation despite doing shit not winning anything, even Man Utd cannot beat them in reputation, they never sign big names like Man City, i wonder what is the tycoon for? tongue.gif


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post Jan 6 2012, 08:38 PM


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well..i am thankful for jedi guide..although I struggle abit to follow play tiki taka...hehe

I normally just apply tactic these days...think i too old or busy with work to create my own.. tongue.gif
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konichiwawa
post Jan 9 2012, 08:18 AM


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QUOTE(Jedi @ Jan 6 2012, 05:03 PM)
thats very harsh. Had I wanted to show off my tactics I would just post

The Ultimate Tiki-Taka Tactic by the Great Jeff Alexander FM expert

instead of writing such a long article and Tic-Tacs philosophies and guidance for those who want to write barcelona's total football revolution would I not?

My tactics uploaded were meant to only be a guide, I did say, do tweak it according to your team and play to player's strength

Dont like, Dont see. Dont bother. Dont even enter.
Its for fans who love to watch beautiful football and try to emulate them.
*
I'm not sure how am I being harsh. I just commented that I don't understand the joy of using others' tactics. I also never mentioned that you were trying to brag or show off your tactics by uploading it here. I personally just feel more joy slowly experimenting with my own tactics.
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normeck
post Jan 11 2012, 12:22 AM


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im trying plying this game with 442. there is so many shots on goal, but it seems my striker cant put it in goal. What role should my striker be? thankz
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post Jan 11 2012, 08:59 AM


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QUOTE(normeck @ Jan 11 2012, 12:22 AM)
im trying plying this game with 442. there is so many shots on goal, but it seems my striker cant put it in goal. What role should my striker be? thankz
*
If you are playing 442, 1 striker should preferably be in a support role while the other in an attack role. The 1 in the attack role can be a Advanced Forward, Poacher or even a complete forward if you want. I usually play the other striker as a Complete Forward or a Deep Lying Forward. I imagine my strikers playing off each other. So 1 between midfield and attack and the other playing off the shoulder off the last defender. Something like a Rooney and a Hernandez type combo. But your supply line to your strikers also play a huge part. Are your wingers cutting in, playing through balls or crosses? Where are they crossing from? Are your midfielders playing through balls?

You should also check if you allow your players to shoot from distance often or rarely. I've set this to rarely because I'd rather my players play the ball around then to take a long range shot.
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post Jan 11 2012, 09:32 AM


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QUOTE(konichiwawa @ Jan 9 2012, 08:18 AM)
I'm not sure how am I being harsh. I just commented that I don't understand the joy of using others' tactics. I also never mentioned that you were trying to brag or show off your tactics by uploading it here. I personally just feel more joy slowly experimenting with my own tactics.
*
some people does not have time or really understand how roles, position and duties work. while some others prefers to use whatever tactics that can give them win.

however at the end of the day, everyone of us is the winner (although some might get relegated or sacked, or the worst case game get crashed -FFFFUUU) as long as people are happy, I don't see why "I don't understand the joy of using other's tactics" should be raised at the first place.

However i still stucked with FM11, tak sanggup nak upgrade to FM12. loving so much my current team.
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post Jan 11 2012, 10:28 AM


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QUOTE(konichiwawa @ Jan 11 2012, 08:59 AM)
If you are playing 442, 1 striker should preferably be in a support role while the other in an attack role. The 1 in the attack role can be a Advanced Forward, Poacher or even a complete forward if you want. I usually play the other striker as a Complete Forward or a Deep Lying Forward. I imagine my strikers playing off each other. So 1 between midfield and attack and the other playing off the shoulder off the last defender. Something like a Rooney and a Hernandez type combo. But your supply line to your strikers also play a huge part. Are your wingers cutting in, playing through balls or crosses? Where are they crossing from? Are your midfielders playing through balls?

You should also check if you allow your players to shoot from distance often or rarely. I've set this to rarely because I'd rather my players play the ball around then to take a long range shot.
*
thankz for the reply. Well my striker position is two at the front. Parallel.
I play my midfield as 2 wingers, where they cross from err touch line? (cant remember when i post this). Im playing Liverpool team, and my left side is downing and at right is Kuyt. I put both do crosses, but i doubt kuyt ability to cross, but i just put him do crosses. The other two is, one is doing Defensive, and the other one attacking. Both of them do through ball. About long shot, i cant remember..but i rarely touch on that setting. I will try as you say, about the striker. thankz again.

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post Jan 12 2012, 09:14 AM


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I want to share for those having problem on tactics, roles, duty and training:

Guide to Football Manager 2012

I think its valid for FM2011 as well... its not a definite win guide but some info or suggestion for you team.


Added on January 13, 2012, 8:48 am@Jedi or others,

Cared to advice?

I need to set my current tactics with sideline instruction 'Retain Possession' & 'Take More Risk' every start of the game in Pep Talk (with Overload).

Do you know which player instruction I need to change If I want both sideline instruction to be permanent in my tactics...

By applying those instructions, my team able to cope (draw/win) against big team. Better possesion and high chances on goal. Yellow card chances is high as well sweat.gif since I believe its due to instruction 'take more risk'.

FYI, important player attribute based on their role & duty... the min is 8 points...

my current tactics (4-5-1):
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Jedi
post Jan 13 2012, 08:22 PM


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QUOTE(exkaizen @ Jan 12 2012, 09:14 AM)
I want to share for those having problem on tactics, roles, duty and training:

Guide to Football Manager 2012

I think its valid for FM2011 as well... its not a definite win guide but some info or suggestion for you team.


Added on January 13, 2012, 8:48 am@Jedi or others,

Cared to advice?

I need to set my current tactics with sideline instruction 'Retain Possession' & 'Take More Risk' every start of the game in Pep Talk (with Overload).

Do you know which player instruction I need to change If I want both sideline instruction to be permanent in my tactics...

By applying those instructions, my team able to cope (draw/win) against big team. Better possesion and high chances on goal. Yellow card chances is high as well  sweat.gif since I believe its due to instruction 'take more risk'.

FYI, important player attribute based on their role & duty... the min is 8 points...

my current tactics (4-5-1):
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*
I assume you want to play the current Arsenal retaining, Manchester United's risk-taking type of football. Which team are you using? or which league are you playing...because there are two styles of playing

Picking one role to get the best out of a single star will not have the same effect as picking 11 roles to form a team unit. - quote from first post of the thread

To take more risk, u mean in daring to close down on players with hard tackles, or to put in more fabregas-scholes-like of long range passes with sudden counter?
Its actually a good tactic smile.gif to have 4 very high creative midfielders >15, >15 flair to fit into your tactic, on striker's instruction u should get them forward more often, if you want a Brazil Ronaldo or Van Nistelrooy/Chicarito(must have decent >15 anticipation, off the ball with preferably acceleration and pace, if economical can slow striker like huntelaar) set a poacher with closing down of 0 bar. - For Your ONLY striker in your formation (no trequarista - that is very rooney and they supply balls to others besides getting shots)

Lastly bec of the risks, defenders should close down at own area (not all the pitch) to avoid opponent's counter attack, defensive anchorman (ZONAL marking)
in tiki-taka, even though its played with tight marking, all players have free roles so it basically act like the zonal marking upgrade. which u can try.

thats my 2 cents
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post Jan 13 2012, 10:04 PM


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ok... tq bro

This post has been edited by exkaizen: Jan 15 2012, 12:43 AM
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wairai
post Jan 17 2012, 11:07 AM


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Some question on this tactic.

Is it preferable to have an agile defender than a slower defender??? It seems most of time my backline owez kena expose by striker like Bent or Chicarito explosive run (I use Arsenal and Mertesacker is slower than a snails)

Since RvP have a veggies leg (weak leg and easy to injured while playing)
Is it wise to use Chamakh as no 9 or just use a AMC to replace the deficiencies in Creative Forward?

I also notice that both wide forward also need to be agile + creative...aite???
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exkaizen
post Jan 18 2012, 07:27 AM


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QUOTE(wairai @ Jan 17 2012, 11:07 AM)
Some question on this tactic.

Is it preferable to have an agile defender than a slower defender??? It seems most of time my backline owez kena expose by striker like Bent or Chicarito explosive run (I use Arsenal and Mertesacker is slower than a snails)

Since RvP have a veggies leg (weak leg and easy to injured while playing)
Is it wise to use Chamakh as no 9 or just use a AMC to replace the deficiencies in Creative Forward?

I also notice that both wide forward also need to be agile + creative...aite???
*
There's few ways to counter being expose by striker, IMHO:

a) play offside + push up defense line + good sweeper keeper
b) high acceleration + anticipation + decision + tight mark + man marking (if the striker always runs with ball, try not to do hard tackling - hard tackling afraid striker able to dodge/avoid the tackle)
c) close down more to AMC/MC for them to make more mistakes thus not able to supply good ball to striker

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post Jan 18 2012, 07:46 AM


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Some question on passing.

Team instruction
============
playing style - shorter
defenseive line - push up (full)
width - narrow
tempo - slow
time wasting - normal
focus passing - through the middle

currently playing 4-3-3
=================
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


player instruction
=============
passing - short
creativity - (CD - little, WB - normal)

Since defensive line has been push up (full bar), the position of midfield area and defensive area is close. passing route from midfield to forward/strike is good no cross/pass to feet.

My problem now is my defensive line most of the time pass directly to my forward instead of defensive -> midfield -> forward. Any idea to make them pass the ball from defensive -> midfield - > forward instead of defensive -> forward directly (contribute to loss posession & low passing rate)
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gengstapo
post Feb 9 2012, 09:53 AM


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QUOTE(wairai @ Jan 17 2012, 11:07 AM)
Some question on this tactic.

Is it preferable to have an agile defender than a slower defender??? It seems most of time my backline owez kena expose by striker like Bent or Chicarito explosive run (I use Arsenal and Mertesacker is slower than a snails)

Since RvP have a veggies leg (weak leg and easy to injured while playing)
Is it wise to use Chamakh as no 9 or just use a AMC to replace the deficiencies in Creative Forward?

I also notice that both wide forward also need to be agile + creative...aite???
*
When U play against team which has fast strikers, decrease the defensive line(pull down) accordingly. Do not try high pressure coz gud strikers would always beat the offside trap smile.gif

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wairai
post Feb 10 2012, 12:33 PM


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Hmm been trying your advice... Work kinda nice when I can disable explosive run from Chicharito heheheh
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post Feb 10 2012, 03:57 PM


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QUOTE(wairai @ Feb 10 2012, 12:33 PM)
Hmm been trying your advice... Work kinda nice when I can disable explosive run from Chicharito heheheh
*
What is your formation/ tactic? Tic-Tac arr?? laugh.gif
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wairai
post Feb 10 2012, 04:00 PM


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Tic Tac when deeper become direct counter attack from defense hahah

I use mr Hough sometimes smile.gif
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gengstapo
post Feb 13 2012, 03:37 PM


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I dont know how to use the old traditional tactic, I just use the normal style..

So far seems fine with Spurs rclxms.gif

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


1st & 2nd seasons..

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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post Feb 16 2012, 04:22 PM


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hi guise, will tiki taka prevent opponents from scoring?

i am currently playing leeds, using a tweaked parking bus destroyer tactic i used with my man utd save. i can score a lot of goals with this tactic but i am looking for a more controlled/short passing/frustrate the opponent approach while i'm still in division 1.
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post Feb 18 2012, 12:06 AM


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I tot if want to play tika taka the tempo should be very slow ? hmm.gif

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post Feb 19 2012, 01:45 AM


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Yes, the tempo should be slow. Take your time to pass the ball around to look for opportunities and force the opponents into making a mistake.

Anyways, I'm so happy right now. biggrin.gif

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post Feb 27 2012, 11:52 AM


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Guys,

What is the tactics settings if want to win the ball from opposition before they are able to enter your half?

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gengstapo
post Mar 1 2012, 03:21 PM


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QUOTE(exkaizen @ Feb 27 2012, 11:52 AM)
Guys,

What is the tactics settings if want to win the ball from opposition before they are able to enter your half?
*
Not tactic, its instruction. Set to "More Pressing" in Team Instruction smile.gif
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Bikey
post Mar 4 2012, 05:06 PM


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QUOTE(gengstapo @ Mar 1 2012, 03:21 PM)
Not tactic, its instruction. Set to "More Pressing" in Team Instruction smile.gif
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Hi all,

I was just wondering if anybody could help me out more using this tactic, specifically about that of the position of the 3 strikers up front. I use the normal tactic myself so when I import the Tactic (normal) one, I see two wingers in front with the trequista in the middle. If i was to consolidate the two winger and put them side by side with my middle (trequista) striker, giving me 3 strikers up front, what would their roles be? i.e. should i put adv forward - attack on my left striker and poacher on the right one? thanks in advance.
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gengstapo
post Mar 4 2012, 06:07 PM


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Depend on what you like. There is no really specific formula for those with 3 attacker. I play my style as long as I could win tongue.gif

AML(Inside Forward - Attack) -- Striker(Adv. Forward - Attack) -- AMR(Winger - Support)

This post has been edited by gengstapo: Mar 4 2012, 06:07 PM
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Bikey
post Mar 6 2012, 05:38 PM


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How is it that the most passes per game always are from my fullback/wingback, instead of my trequista, dlp or ap? I am using jeff's tactic with very minimal tweaks (wingback a bit more creativity and run with ball sometimes) but that's it. Thank you once again.

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wairai
post Mar 6 2012, 09:27 PM


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You can set the WB or FB not holding up balls for lowering the passes made by them

But this will make the passing option are less than usual though = low possesion
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post Mar 7 2012, 02:14 PM


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QUOTE(Bikey @ Mar 6 2012, 05:38 PM)
How is it that the most passes per game always are from my fullback/wingback, instead of my trequista, dlp or ap? I am using jeff's tactic with very minimal tweaks (wingback a bit more creativity and run with ball sometimes) but that's it. Thank you once again.
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I used to wonder that myself, so one fine day, I decided to switch from text mode to 2D graphics mode. That's when I realised why it happens.

When you use this tactic constantly, the AI opposition will automatically play to crowd out the middle of the field to disrupt your passing game, therefore you run out of space. Because of this, you wind up passing to the only area where you have space - your flanks, which you only have your fullbacks there. So they'll wind up passing back and forth between the fullbacks and the various midfielders until one of the midfielders can find space to make a through ball into the box. Something like that lar.

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vanpersie91
post Mar 7 2012, 02:21 PM


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paulo ferreira play barca tiki taka? wow..
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Don Doyle
post Mar 7 2012, 06:37 PM


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Using this tika-taka formation, and the players who end up with most passes are my left-back and defensive midfielder with 100++ passes a game.

/shrug
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kilacmaster
post Mar 15 2012, 04:47 PM


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I've change to 4-4-2...don' know why the AMC position got problems, not like what I required
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sOuLx
post Mar 15 2012, 09:35 PM


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i tried this tactic with swansea. minor tweaking only.
win all pre-season match against weaker team with 60-70% possession.
But after the league start, i lost all first 3 matches against everton, arsenal, blackburn although with decent possession, 50-55%..

very hard playing swansea.... -__-


Added on March 17, 2012, 4:23 amalas, my swansea is relegated after fighting in premier league.haha.
manage to get decent possession but can't score or shot.

This post has been edited by sOuLx: Mar 17 2012, 04:23 AM
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wairai
post Mar 19 2012, 04:49 AM


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QUOTE(sOuLx @ Mar 15 2012, 09:35 PM)
i tried this tactic with swansea. minor tweaking only.
win all pre-season match against weaker team with 60-70% possession.
But after the league start, i lost all first 3 matches against everton, arsenal, blackburn although with decent possession, 50-55%..

very hard playing swansea.... -__-


Added on March 17, 2012, 4:23 amalas, my swansea is relegated after fighting in premier league.haha.
manage to get decent possession but can't score or shot.
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Lessen some more on Creativity might help scoring chances as they will not bring the ball to the near goal without shooting

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sOuLx
post Mar 19 2012, 04:35 PM


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manage to fight from going relegated with swansea, 15th place.. tweak here and there but still unconvincing. start of second season, buy lots of youngster with good potential, but still fighting for a win.. sure lose against big team (unless they send their 2nd team)..job security insecure now.hahaha.
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sickx
post Mar 30 2012, 11:14 AM


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tiki-taka is so yesterday. anybody up for marcelo bielsa's 343? tongue.gif
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wairai
post Mar 30 2012, 06:59 PM


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Main pointers in 3-4-3 Athletic Bilbao?? biggrin.gif
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sickx
post Mar 31 2012, 12:27 AM


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read about it. very interesting if you want to implement it. it's like mixing the English football with total football. you need a big, strong and mobile target man, defenders that able to start an attack, good wing forwards, and central midfielders that can go up and down easily-or should i say two box to box midfielders.
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wairai
post Mar 31 2012, 03:33 AM


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QUOTE(sickx @ Mar 31 2012, 12:27 AM)
read about it. very interesting if you want to implement it. it's like mixing the English football with total football. you need a big, strong and mobile target man, defenders that able to start an attack, good wing forwards, and central midfielders that can go up and down easily-or should i say two box to box midfielders.
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After seeing your reply.. I decided to google and find this LOL

http://www.theirtactics.com/

may not fully utilize certain to a certain degree of similarities but Marcelo Bielsa philosophy are quite interesting
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normeck
post Apr 4 2012, 07:57 PM


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guys, im using target man tactics, but the problem is, i have so many shot and control the game, but i cant convert it to goals. Any personal instruction on target man? or any?
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wairai
post Apr 4 2012, 09:20 PM


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Less creativity or Rare Long Shots (if you using TS tactics , then long shots are irrelevant)



This post has been edited by wairai: Apr 4 2012, 09:25 PM
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sOuLx
post Apr 6 2012, 06:03 PM


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one question.. anybody who try TS tactics + tweaking or without tweaking with midtable in EPL/LaLiga, have you ever won the league? seriously i'm having problem. biggrin.gif
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wairai
post Apr 25 2012, 07:44 AM


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QUOTE(sOuLx @ Apr 6 2012, 06:03 PM)
one question.. anybody who try TS tactics + tweaking or without tweaking with midtable in EPL/LaLiga, have you ever won the league? seriously i'm having problem. biggrin.gif
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maybe can try this??

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-ma...swanselona.html
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cavynz
post May 18 2012, 06:44 PM


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QUOTE(normeck @ Apr 4 2012, 07:57 PM)
guys, im using target man tactics, but the problem is, i have so many shot and control the game, but i cant convert it to goals. Any personal instruction on target man? or any?
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Probably, you may want to try swtich target man to poacher.
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Jedi
post Oct 1 2012, 06:52 PM


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hi people, sorry for the long absence. I have not played FM 2012 for a few months, however I am happy seeing u all enjoying yourselves.

and I am very happy when I come here, 1000+ downloads on my tactics! THe last time i was here it was less than 100.

someone suggested Bielsa's tactic. Give me some time (if i will have), to do research and watch videos of their games. SInce they are not so famous tactic but creative it might take some time. I will experiment this on FM 2013 with maybe a new thread smile.gif


Added on December 20, 2012, 5:15 pmBump!

I have gain promotion with Blackburn

Tiki-taka still works wonders

Proof:
user posted image

user posted image

This is before yesterdays ME 12.3 update, so imagine with the new update, more goals will flow..however I can not guarantee the defence like FM 12 where i concede less than 13 goals a season, usually less than 10. This seasons AI can score more, which is more realistic. No more corner bug to exploit too



This post has been edited by Jedi: Dec 20 2012, 05:15 PM
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anechoic
post Dec 20 2012, 05:54 PM


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will give your tactics a try on FM 13 soon..haha
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Jedi
post Dec 20 2012, 10:42 PM


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tactics download and view on the first page ya flex.gif old but gold
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gengstapo
post Jul 24 2013, 05:51 PM


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Tiki taka is indeed greater while you have the correct players wink.gif
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