oh korean too, how come ?

Just curious lah, maybe they korean "boss" players there. Cos korean players have much higher table tennis standard compared to us, some of them could have brought along their training techniques here, worth to see if it is good for us.

I will be there for sure one of these days, just not sure when only. I have refrain from talking about one day I almost went.. when I drive out my car into federal highway from subang jaya, after a long time in a horrible jam, I turn into Glenmarie and go home

her name is seo hyo-won

you say got korean girls playing there, since all of them looks about the same and their name also sounds alike. So I just call them seo hyo-won lah.

oh give me the names of the lcly fellow

I think you may have just played with empire

lcly I like those type of players... especially when they lose hahaha

Very different from me, looks like everyone is different. I love competition. Being in a competition has a different kind of feeling, you cant get if you dont compete. Over the years I still play table tennis for the sake of exercise, I only bounce ball on the wall and whack ball over the net at home. Feeling is totally different. Although I do wish to play active again but unfortunately I cant.

Some people feel "upset" when they lose and "happy" when they win, this is normal. It is a type of feeling we get, is part of our life. Imagine if we live a life that never experienced "upset" or "happy". So when people get "upset" when they lose, let them be its normal. If he becomes "lcly" when winning, just let them be ... and us watching them getting "upset" and "lcly" also a nice thing to experience.

Coming back to table tennis,

"lcly" players may do well in normal practice because they have been doing the same stroke, same spot, same strength every single day. If one person play with the same player, even before his partner hit the ball, he already know here the ball is going and how to return.BUT in tournament, it is very different, environment is different, players body language are different, incoming ball behaviour are different... whatever we used to do may not work, all need adjustments. I am sure you have seen in those table-tennis club, they can do their bullet fast blocks and top spin flawlessly for hours but during tournament, they cant even block or do topspin for more than 3 balls.

So it has to go back to how strong is the foundation and how fast a person can adapt to the changes. Foundation can obtain easily be but only through competitive games you can acquire the skills of "ability to adapt" fast. So, join more competition, whenever you see someone new come in... play with him ( even if he is a beginner because you never know because sometimes you may get that kind of shot during tournament from experienced players ). During my playing days, I always give my opponent a surprise "beginners" type no spin shot to upset their rhythm.

you are right, footwork is very important. You have to move fast and be in correct position very fast. Another thing overlooked by many coach is how too read opponents body language to prepare movement to the best possible location to return the ball. From service to regular strokes, opponent body language can tell a lot, even when they do a fake body movement, still there will be some slight difference.

For example, when you someone hit bottom part of the ball with the shoulder/elbow/wrist moving slightly upwards on contact, 90% will be a top spin, even though it looks like a bottom spin serve ( unless he faked it, this is when the art of fake body language comes in ). Another thing is how to read ball flight and bounce pattern, that will help when you failed to see how the ball is being hit on the opponents bat.

All these were thought by my former coach, too bad it was too late for me to pick up these skills.

Just look at this video, one of the player is from my era

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1tJMf2qriA

That fellow, if ball lands on the same spot or nearby, he can block and hit for hours without a single miss. But when game starts, when balls start to fly everywhere.. just see how he perform. He was just too slow to move to the best position to return ball. So skills is nothing unless you can move to the good position fast enough to execute your skills.

As those video of super tiny below 10 year old, I am afraid they may not be real ( on the spot or controlled strokes maybe can ). Whoever loses to those tiny 10 year old kids must be doing a self inflicted loss. When player are still physically too small in size they have huge disadvantage. They simply cannot reach certain ball fast enough, they can only win if you send the ball to where he is all the time.

wah u still going there ? have u become their "boss" now ?

This post has been edited by tsd: Apr 21 2019, 04:35 PM

Lets say, I play with a tiny fellow from star elite. All I need is to do a short side spin curve serve, make the ball bounce off the table right near the net. The only way a tiny fellow to reach that ball is to run to the left side to retrieve because his hand will be too short to do a flick. He has to run tot he side to return that ball, once he returned it, I send a curved ball to his right, off the table near net again on the right this time. He has to run from from left to right, he will never reach there on time. Even if he manage to reach there, I do left and so on... how long can he survive ?

As for Harimoto, he is tall enough even though when ie was only 14. He could easily reach short ball from the back of the table, no need to go to the side to retrieve


Although I may sound negative, in reality, they may look impressive but they are only good for the on the spot strokes. Don't give them too much praise until they until they are tall enough, then you see how they perform. A lot of them are are just too comfortable ( after getting a lot pf praises ) doing on the spot strokes until they refuse to learn how to move effectively.

You are talking about a different thing.

I am talking about those small sized little kids who cant even reach halfway into the table, with "over-hyped" promotions, that was the discussion.

Those curve left and right ball is easy to do lah. Even a simple bottom spin near the net with a reverse bounce will get those small sized kids in trouble. I am not talking about those bigger sized kids.

If you tell me star elte and pj union or any place that have any kids that can't even reach half-way into the table and tell me I cant deal with them ? you must be kidding. I dare to bet with you with everything I have. Not just me, in fact anyone who can play decent table tennis will dare to take up the challenge.

Whether that small kid train with chee feng or ma long or anyone else, makes no difference. He still cant play in real competitive game until he is tall enough, of cos sometimes we do see them in competition but whoever losses to them are mostly self-inflicted loss.

yes lah, we are talking about totally different thing. That is why this discussion has gone out of control. Since you already noticed that I am not talking about older kids ( look at the snip from my old post ), no way Ai Fukuhara when she barely reach table can beat anyone if opponent takes advantage of her height. Of cos when she grow older and taller, then we are talking about a different thing.

IF you agree we are talking about those small size, below 10 ( that was what I was talking about.. see my post snips below ), they can easily be taken advantage of by any players.

as for serve that bounces back, not difficult to do lah.. no need to be a Ma Lin to do it. Just hit at bottom inside part ( part facing opponent ), lift bat from bottom up, brushing upwards that part... let ball bounce near the net on your side of table, it will bounce over the net and once it touches the opponent side, it will bounce backwards towards the net and back to your side of the table. dont believe ? try it.

This type of ball is good for bullying small kids but in against adult it is just too dangerous because if opponent can reach the ball near the net, this serve is dead because can easily flick smashed/kill if he can reach the ball. But for small kids, they cant reach the ball. That is why you do not see Ma Lin do such serve in real tournament, he only does it in his practice session.

This post has been edited by tsd: Apr 27 2019, 04:25 PM

you can do sidespin with handshake bats, you will have to hold the bat with just 2 fingers. Thumb and second finger, that way you can be almost as flexible as the penholder. Actually its not that they cant return or cant read those spin, it is just that they are trying to do something that fails to work, so people think they cant return the serve. Alot of pro players dont really care what kind of serve, they just watch the flight of the ball to determine what kind of spin.

haha are you sure ?

it was a misunderstanding lah, I was talking about those small kids that barely reach half the table. He is talking about a fully grown up adult size Harimoto.

oh so you join a novice competition good for you. Did u win ?

Yes, tomahawk serve can do side spin as well, but tomahawk is a very tiring serve to do, especially on the knee. I had a lot of experience with this serve during my younger player years. You can win points right from it or get killed by doing it, if you do not recover fast after serve especially when your knee becomes very tired. Even Ding Ning is reducing her tomahawk serve nowadays. Tomahawk is only good for top sidespin, very hard to do short side bottom spin with tomahawk, even if you managed to do it, it will be a lousy one. So, still the 2 finger grip on shakehand bat, forward pendulum or reversed pendulum can make very good side-spin of any kind.

Well, if you do not believe what I said about those ball flight reader, nevermind. Next time when you encounter them you will understand or when you learn it yourself, you will also understand. Of cos even if someone can read ball flight/bounce, he will still be looking at contact point of the ball because if the contact is too obvious, there is no need to read ball flight, because much easier to read contacts than reading ball flight.

Try watch closely on your youtube video on professional players, they only watch opponent body language during serve, then see how their eyes track the ball after opponent hit the ball, they are reading flight, they will watch it bounce ( you can see how they pause with their eyes fixed on the bounce )... then only move in for it.

ITTF ban hiding of ball during serve is to protect weaker players. Reading ball flight is difficult and even more difficult for older players with poorer eye-sight. Imagine if everyone have to learn to read ball flight in order to play table tennis, the table tennis game will be so unpopular and will be dead.

Heavy spin serve are slow, plenty of time to see ball flight. So for ball flight, learn it and all your troubles with spin and long pimples will be gone. IF you dont believe, next time you go and play again, stay focused and watch the ball closely after they serve. There is a fixed pattern in ball flight, just deal with the pattern. A lot of time people could not be bothered to learn how to read ball flight. Unless you are too old with bad eye-sight, then no choice but to skip this skill.

How many times did you failed to return serve from your recent tournament ? Why did you failed to return the serve ? Let me guess, you try to see the serve contact point and failed to read the spin and failed to return the serve ?

To read spin you need real experience, be it contact point reading or ball flight and bounce reading. To me, contact point is very much harder, especially during serve because the contact is just too brief and too much fake body movement, you will end up with a lot of wrong reading. Reading ball flight is much safer because that is the real thing. Ball contact during serve can be faked, but ball flight and bounce cannot be faked because it is the real thing.

Reading ball flight and bounce needs experience and practice in order to make it effective... not theory. Like in your post you can tell me how the ball fly etc BUT can you read it in real game like what you said ? I can bet you will not be able to see any of the ball flight and bounce you mention in real game to determine the type of spin, unless you are willing to put in a lot of effort and practice to learn it. If you cannot do it, it does not mean I cant do it either, there are many ball flight and bounce reader out there.

It is a known fact that ITTF has to protect the game, because the gap has become bigger between players. I gap is too big, many will lose interest. So they make many rules so that weaker players don't give up the game. I can give you a long list but since you watch a lot of youtube, you can do your own, from 21 points to 11, rubber and sponge thickness limit, speed glue ban, 38mm to 40mm, Vertical toss rule... long long list... maybe one day, spin serve are not allowed.

This post has been edited by tsd: May 1 2019, 11:43 PM

OF cos we do look at server bat angle and contacts, that is just a pre-observation.

If the serve is too obvious, especially from regular/easy players, then there is no need to watch flight and bounce.

BUT playing against higher level player ( I am not talking about our local state players level, serve is still quite easy ), maybe you have never played with them before... try to see contact point alone to decide how to return the serve, you will losing all your points. Bat contact point and angle happens so fast and can be almost impossible to see, You will have to depend on flight and bounce to decide how to return the ball. Anyway, after so many messages, I don't think you are ready to face reality and have no idea what I am talking about probably because you have never been to where I have been before. If you are unable to learn how to read ball flight and bounce, don't discourage others from learning ( I know a lot of people failed to pick up this skill and they will say that this skill is no use just to comfort themselves ).

During normal play like you say a swing with tell you what spin you will get, not all the case... when you are dealing with pimple rubbers. So many types of pimple rubber, contact point and swing does not translate to real spin coming in, again you depend on reading flight and bounce to deal with different types of pimples. Some players dont even use pimple rubber, they use modified smooth rubber to make unpredictable return. Although there are some regulations, they can escape the regulation easily. the only way is to watch the flight and bounce, because that one cannot be faked.

all his teammates and other grade A state ( province ) players in China are capable of defeating him.