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 water heater, price and quality

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weikee
post Oct 1 2014, 09:31 PM

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If this is the one you talking about http://www.beebest.com.my/index.php?option...#specifications

Prepare a thick wires. Minimal is 4.5kwatt it sure going to take minimal 20amps. Switch this on it draw current like your water.
weikee
post Oct 2 2014, 09:06 PM

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QUOTE(Unwir3D @ Oct 2 2014, 08:58 PM)
I'm looking to install Rinnai gas water heater for my double story terrace.

So far the quote i got is the following,

Rinnai 16L external gas water heater. RM2300

Plumbing and installation using hanson poly piping for 3 bath, 1 kitchen and installation of water pump. RM4800
Question here, do you guys this is worth of investment? The plumbing charges is so expensive  cry.gif
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Ask installer from the shop you bought the unit. They may have plumber to introduce.

My storage piping also around 1.5k just the two bathroom on first floor.

This post has been edited by weikee: Oct 2 2014, 09:14 PM
weikee
post Oct 2 2014, 10:23 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Oct 2 2014, 09:24 PM)
definitely not worth it. dont forget you need to hack your bathroom and redo all the tiles as well. in the end you spend 10k just for all these.
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The same for storage and solar, all need copper or stainless steel piping.
weikee
post Oct 4 2014, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(Alan Chia @ Oct 4 2014, 05:59 PM)
Dear All, I am looking for a good water heater, and energy saving. I am looking into Seers due to a few shops strongly recommended Seers DC heater. It was impressed that it can save 60% energy. I have read thru Seers forum and brochure, But with my electrical background, energy can not created nor destroyed. Hence, I have a doubt that the energy can be save until this extend.
And I ask my Singapore friend in this field and he don't believe.
And I feel weird that the salesman and brochure mentioned that all the model can save 60% energy, but from the Seers forum I think only their Hybrid range can save this much, and I also don't believe the single tank, double tank, all can save that much due to the principle is better insulation.
Can some one help on this?
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With your engineering background, you already know the answer. It doesn't matter Ac or DC generating heat still need current.

weikee
post Oct 4 2014, 07:55 PM

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QUOTE(Alan Chia @ Oct 4 2014, 06:17 PM)
Then how can they misleading users in such a marketing way?? Even they have a Return of investment chart!! I thought all of it models can save energy in such, if not perhaps 30%!! And I think energy saving is only the hybrid systems not even the double tank one. If this is the fact, we must spread out this news to avoid them to mislead other people!!! Pls correct me if I am wrong.
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Use this with their claim on the DC storage specification

http://www.phpdoc.info/brew/boilcalc.html

Even at 100%,efficiency the number are are so much different , they can boil so fast with so less energy can apply for Guinness world record already. Using joven spec and calculate different is about 7mins. Seers different is like 40mins. Call me skeptic.

If price different at not much co.pare to joven you can try and update us the result. My joven 30L if switch off for few days, I only need to wait 10 mins and I have enough hot water for a bath.
weikee
post Oct 4 2014, 11:00 PM

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QUOTE(Alan Chia @ Oct 4 2014, 10:40 PM)
I found another thing. Seers DC heater claimed that all their products is 100% safe due to without heating element, but in the brochure of single tank and double tank series, it looks like have heating element shown, may be coated by something. But the both 2 salesman of different shop said totally no heating element, and in the main marketing comparison chart also seems like all their products without heating element. From the forum, I think only the hybrid energy saving type is without heating element. And the energy saving type is a bigger vertical unit, not normal storage I think. I am not sure but it seems this brand is trying to use the advantages of a best model, to misleading the users!! OMG...Pls correct me if I am wrong. Hopefully I am wrong. But sorry Weikee I will never try this brand. And the salesman said shouldn't turn off, otherwise need 1 hour to boil(not sure which capacity), but always on will saving energy....due to use low watt to reboil....haha..
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What a joke, ask people not to switch off, that because they use low current heating element so it take ages to to heat up.

If not switch off, heat will be wasted, and sure will waste energy to heat it back.
weikee
post Oct 5 2014, 12:02 AM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Oct 4 2014, 11:54 PM)
anyway if you are looking for a centralized multi-point water heating system, get either a solar heater or a mini heat pump.

How it Works — Heat Pump Water Heaters (HPWHs)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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My guess this is similar to the seers hybrid work. That is why need 1-2 hours, and put @ roof is to exchange the heat during day time.
weikee
post Oct 25 2014, 05:22 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Oct 25 2014, 04:47 PM)
Alan Chia ozak weikee
Visited Seers today at their Homedec booth.
They demoed how their "no elements" ceramic magic thingy even when cut will not electrocute you.
They claimed using around 300-400 watts only
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300-400watt, to heat how many liters water and for how long? When they cut already still can use?
weikee
post Oct 25 2014, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Oct 25 2014, 05:29 PM)
I did ask how long it takes, he just simply says "same amount of time"
The demo for the "cut element" - they use test pen to the live terminal to show you it lights up. Then she immersed her hand into the water. She did not use the test pen in the water which I suspect will also light up...
Anyway the guy kinda knew from my skeptical face, so he also don't layan me...LOL

You guys should go take a look  laugh.gif
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I suspect they using peltier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect
weikee
post Oct 25 2014, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Oct 25 2014, 06:02 PM)
http://www.dhresource.com/albu_367824222_0...lectric-icy.jpg

I think so too cause the "ceramic" square plate with two wires he was holding looks exactly like those peltier elements
But peltiers are not efficient. Maybe it takes few hours to heat up the tank of water.
Their selling point is safety and supposedly low energy consumption but they don't tell you must turn on this 400w device for how long a time
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I question them before, never give me exact number too.
weikee
post Oct 25 2014, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Oct 25 2014, 06:35 PM)
Outside the hall right? I thaught why so tall. Than see bottom. 6" shoe. Ha......
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See bottom brows.gif
weikee
post Nov 3 2014, 08:21 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Nov 3 2014, 07:39 AM)
I have some sharing experience an over instant heater vs central system.

Instant can be more quick n fast for heat up, when you going to be fast bath, but also used more electric power and noisy motor with AC pump, or either used DC pump more quietly.

When used Central system heater one, you may switch on power 30mins before heat up, but also used 2 ways piping for more costly, the advantage can be used for whole unit, even your sink or basic still got hot water.
Electric wise may slightly cut down.

The answer : want fast then go for instant type.
No rush for morning, then used  central system also more safety.

thumbup.gif thumbup.gif
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Yours is just an assumption.

Instant water heater won't give you real hot water bath when you need it the most (rainy day), not unless you reduce the flow rate and switch to max.

Central water heater don't need to wait 30mins if use every day even alternate days, because after the first use the tank already have balance hot water, and it have some insulation to keep the water for sometime. I have two storage in my house, one I use frequently, another only weekend, or sometime when we are in hurry not wanting to wait for the mater bathroom. Also if the tank have no more hot water, don't need to wait 30mins before can use, depend on storage size just switch it on for 10 - 15mins and you can take bath.

This post has been edited by weikee: Nov 3 2014, 08:32 AM
weikee
post Nov 3 2014, 08:23 AM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Nov 3 2014, 07:48 AM)
Storage tank no need to wait for it to heat up also cause it will still retain the heat from previous use.
Before you shower just turn it on, when finish then off it. I never wait for it to heat up
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As usual lah, not a user yet and want to give advice.
weikee
post Nov 3 2014, 11:38 AM

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Is good to only switch it on when you need it, and off when you don't. Longer life and reduce the risk of damaging equipment if lightning strike.
weikee
post Dec 28 2014, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(boxer07 @ Dec 28 2014, 05:28 PM)
It is like telling ppl that drive Honda City is bullshit . U won't enjoy wat is driving experience ....go buy BMW ... That's only considered as a car and the driving experience is wonderful ... rclxub.gif  whistling.gif
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So have you use both instant and storage before? Can instance get the warm water you need during morning? or raining day with the good water pressure? I use instant water heater, and storage, and still using both now. I know which type give better warm water. Nothing about Driving BMW or City is about what "Kimsim" comment earlier.
weikee
post Dec 29 2014, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(boxer07 @ Dec 28 2014, 08:23 PM)
Installation for storage is much more troublesome and not cheap ...
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For cost comparison, yes storage and Solar are higher. For aesthetic and enjoyment Solar, Stroage, and Gas are better.

My earlier comparison are not on cost, but on the context of getting hot/warmer water faster when compare to instance vs storage that "Kimsim" wrote earlier.

QUOTE(kimsim @ Nov 3 2014, 07:39 AM)
I have some sharing experience an over instant heater vs central system.

Instant can be more quick n fast for heat up, when you going to be fast bath, but also used more electric power and noisy motor with AC pump, or either used DC pump more quietly.

When used Central system heater one, you may switch on power 30mins before heat up, but also used 2 ways piping for more costly, the advantage can be used for whole unit, even your sink or basic still got hot water.
Electric wise may slightly cut down.

The answer : want fast then go for instant type.
No rush for morning, then used  central system also more safety.

thumbup.gif thumbup.gif
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This post has been edited by weikee: Dec 29 2014, 11:12 AM
weikee
post Feb 5 2015, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(leeky77 @ Feb 5 2015, 05:18 PM)
For apartment and only 1 bathroom, I would recommend just using PE-RT piping. It will be your cheapest solution.

I would recommend you to install a gas water heater instead of storage tank as you might need to lower your plaster ceiling height to give way for the storage tank. A 25 litre hot water tank will only supply enough hot water for you to bath for 5 minutes if you installed a 12" rain shower head. The electricity to heat up the water will be very high as the water tank is so small. So not really economical.

Do PM me if you are interested to check out gas water heater.
Regards,
Lee
greenseedwaterheater.com.my
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Slaughter chicken ah? 25L fully heat up can take more than 10mins bath when power is off la. Unless shower with 100% hot water. A standard shower head is 9+Liter/min if 25L tank can provide almost 3mins of pure 100% hot water, and we usually mix 1/3 to 1/4 of hot water only. Dont forget the heater is also running.


I am using 35L, can take two bath and still left with hot water.

weikee
post Feb 5 2015, 06:48 PM

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Be it the size for shower head there is certain regulations the manufacturer need to follow, and can't exceed the flow rate at certain water pressure. My rain shower bigger than 6" la, dont know the exact size but sure bigger than 6" because my normal shower already 6".

I use storage for many years, never need to adjust the tap after the water are adjust when hot water are out. Dont forget we need to apply soap and shampoo all these gab allow the heater to warm the water. Our pattern of bath, we switch on the storage heater while taking night long bath (wife washing hair), than my turn, and after that turn off the power. Morning without switch on storage heater take short and quick bath for both of us + my kid. Been doing this for long never had problems with not enough hot water. Gas also the same la, continue burning when water is flowing.

I also a gas user sometime back when I travel frequent to oversea, I know how the gas heated water and I like it too, and I am a rinnai fan. If Ky storage give way, I'll switch to rinnai.

If a person who like to only shower without turning off the tap for long mins than yes a bigger tank is better, but for an average 10-15min bath is no problem for a 25L tank, and continues supply hot water to next person. There is gab in between like shampoo, soap, towel.. And 25L with 3000watt heating element heat up very fast.

QUOTE(leeky77 @ Feb 5 2015, 06:13 PM)
Assume 10 liter/min with 1/3 hot water equal 3 liter hot water per minute right? 25L tank bath for 10 mins still got hot water?

Yes you are correct the heater also running while you bath, so when you bath time, will the temperature of hot water constant if keep on got fresh water adding in? I don't feel comfortable if bath time I still need to adjust the mixing tap.

What is the size of your shower head? 10 liter/min water consumption I think is 6" rain shower? You try install a 12" rain shower head, see still can take two bath? How about if your house got more than 2 people and morning time everybody is rushing out to work or school, after 2 bath the third person sit there waiting for hot water?

Not to mentioned the electricity cost of continuously heating water while you bath.

When it comes to centralized hot water system, proper sizing of heater and type of system selection is the key to enjoyment and also saving cost.
Regards,
Lee
greenseedwaterheater.com.my
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weikee
post Feb 5 2015, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 5 2015, 09:08 PM)
Useing storage tank 25L for my house, usually we turn on 30mins before take bath.. But we just using around 5-20% of hot water and mix with cold water around 80-90% at least, so tank can remain at least 10-15L.

Even we after taken bath and turn off, from our sink mixer still can enjoy the hot water for each time until next morning..

25L storage tank really enough for cover up 2 bath room at same time using hot water.

Whatever rain shower head 8" & 6mm stainless steel pipes is really good enough for water pressure on rain shower as well.

I don't think you guys need 90c hot water and turn with mixer over 60% of hot water..

I guess the skill can over burning already.
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If everyday use, no need wait 30mins, just switch on and use enough. Storage tank can maintain the hot water pretty well. If you didn't use for two days just need wait 10mins. Unless we are at cold country.

weikee
post Feb 5 2015, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(supersound @ Feb 5 2015, 08:50 PM)
Heated water tank will maintain temperature of 70-85°C.
If full heat, such temperature can boil our skin already.
By mixing it to cold water, assuming to get 36°C of warm water for bath with cold water at 30°C, the ratio will be 20% hot water + 80% cold water. It will be enough for 2 hours of bath.
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Standard is 70c max in storage. That's why I mention earlier 25L storage is sufficient for one toilet. And we usually set 40+-c. That work to be ( 6L of 24c + 3L 70c ) for 39.3c temperature at 9L/min flow. Further more heating element still running.

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