QUOTE(hazairi @ Oct 4 2011, 03:28 PM)
try switch to Terran. In a few weeks, i bet u'll be top 10 on SEA's GM league.. LOL
isnt spending money on iphone a better way to dump money away?Unidimensional In PvT Matchup, Not a balance whine thread!
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 Oct 4 2011, 03:35 PM
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590 posts Joined: Jun 2008 
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Oct 4 2011, 03:58 PM
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Junior Member
304 posts Joined: Nov 2008 
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QUOTE(FLampard @ Oct 4 2011, 03:35 PM) isnt spending money on iphone a better way to dump money away? cant brain this....... |
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Oct 4 2011, 04:23 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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Thorzain Sweden. October 01 2011 06:16. Posts 81 PM Profile Quote #
I feel that TvP IS really micro intensive. EMP everything, move your units out of storms, focus fire individual colossi with vikings and kite zealots if he's zealot heavy. And while you're kiting zealots you have to move back your ghosts so that they dont all get killed in the blink of an eye. All these things at Last edit: 2011-10-01 06:19:59 the same time. It's freaking hard if you ask me! ^ TvP is fine... stop QQing bout tanks |
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Oct 4 2011, 04:37 PM
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Junior Member
134 posts Joined: Jul 2006
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QUOTE Liquid`Jinro Sweden. October 02 2011 11:09. Posts 31726 Profile Blog # I feel the opposite - TvP is a matchup where if both players played perfectly, terran should never ever win. So dependant on getting good drops etc. Of course its pretty damn close to impossible to play the level of perfect that you can consistently every game deny every single drop which might even make it terran favored in reality. Anyway, I agree 100% with PredY's post, bio TvP makes me want to quit  QUOTE Liquid`Jinro Sweden. October 02 2011 21:19. Posts 31726 Profile Blog # On October 02 2011 10:58 The Final Boss wrote: Show nested quote + I agree that TvP is very micro-intensive, but I feel that PredY is right in the fact that it is also a very one-dimensional match-up. You rarely see anything more than MMM and then if the P has Colossi and you don't have Vikings, you lose, and if the P has High Templar and you don't have Ghosts, you lose. It's just not a horribly fun match-up to play, because other than cheeses and timing attacks, there is very little differences in the play styles. That being said, builds like what we saw Byun do in Code A (easily one of the coolest builds I've ever seen) gives me hope that eventually we'll see an increase in mech usage. Personally, I feel that mech is fun to play in TvP, but it's just not nearly as good as bio. I think it would be cooler if in HotS they nerfed bio, but made mech a lot stronger.o ------- Mech is so bad outside of specific timings, on almost all maps. It just isnt able to do anything at all late game - if you want to kill an expansion that has 1 pylon at it you need to bring your entire army because of warpin, if protoss gets 1 warp prism up in your base........ you will never defend. You cant stop addon sniping, your army will not trade nearly effectively enough vs his to make up for his instant 50 supply re-supply vs your super slow pace..... You are just not able to control the map at all, so unless you are doing a 2 base timing its pretty hopeless. (@Byuns build) QUOTE Liquid`Jinro Sweden. October 02 2011 21:26. Posts 31726 If only the colossus was a reaver.... These quote are all from Liquid Jinro, I think his comment answered your question pretty well. Added on October 4, 2011, 4:54 pm QUOTE PredY Czech Republic. October 04 2011 05:32. Posts 1399 Profile # On October 04 2011 05:22 Apollo_Shards wrote: Show nested quote + Honest question. If broodwar was so much better then why not play or watch that? No one forces you to watch TvP without tanks. ____ honest answer: because i love starcraft. i love playing it, watching it, thinking and talking about starcraft. i want sc2 to succeed like BW did in korea, but will it? why not build up on what we knew was working in BW - positional play, soft counters that encourages a lot of micro, decision making etc. you don't have to recreate BW but take inspiration from it, not just make a game with "cool" units like marauer and collosus and stamp Starcraft name on it. (i hope it doesn't sound too harsh, because i f***ing respect blizzard and im happy they are trying to make it right) QUOTE No, SC2 isn't a "completely new game." At its core, SC2 is still an isometric, old school, economy based RTS that is heavily influenced by BW. The biggest differences between BW and SC2 are related to graphics, AI and UI. There's very little in SC2 that, from a gameplay and unit design point of view, couldn't have been done in BW. So keeping all that in mind, it's perfectly fair to say that BW tvp played out in a much more interesting way than the blob vs blod, zero positional gameplay of SC2. Basically, people who think that SC2 is hugely different from BW are fooling themselves. QUOTE The main difference is that once the game advances to the MMMVG point where all Protoss aoe tech lines are countered the Terran simply wins the game. I agree with everything you said about Brood War but the reason BW was great was that each race was forced to play differently. Terran controlled space with tanks, Zerg did the same to some extent with lurker/ds but also had mobility for frontal attacks and Protoss was always mobile. Now all 3 races play like Protoss did in Brood War so the major determining factor in who wins is just a checklist of stupid low level shit. 1. Do you have more surface area for your units? 2. Do your units hardcounter your opponent's? 3. Do you have more units? That is all this game is about and simplifying this problem down to a rant against warpgates (which I agree should be gone from the game) or tech counters is a fundamental misreading of the factors that made BW great. Positioning, real map control and defender's advantage have all been removed with the nerf of tanks and the removal of the lurker and defiler and subsequent addition of pseudo-Protoss units like the marauder and roach. The problem with this game is a lot more complicated than one or two little things but I admire your thread and I think that a widespread discussion of these types of things is useful and necessary. The last quote is what I'm trying to say here. I just hope there are more variation of play in sc2 1v1 This post has been edited by jeffvip: Oct 4 2011, 06:08 PM |
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Oct 7 2011, 01:50 AM
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Junior Member
80 posts Joined: Jul 2008
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Seriously, i'm getting fed up playing PvT. Almost all of my ladder matches are against TERRANS.
Compare to last time, most of the matches I lost. Yes, I'm a Silver noob, but what the heck. All Terran gotta do is MMM or marine marauder tank. Once terran got 4-6 siege tanks and a ball of marine marauder. I totally cant do anything. Why? The tank damage is OP when they're own siege. All terran gotta do is just micro that ball of marine marauder. I tried ways to counter but fail. Zeal Stalker sentries. or even with colosus. Terran is owning. Sigh, my noob ranting. Really fed up with PvT games. Where the hell are Zergs and Protoss? |
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Oct 7 2011, 11:10 AM
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Senior Member
1,813 posts Joined: Apr 2007 From: Lower Perak
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u need strom , u need colossus .
omg wth i need T3 unit to counter T1-T2 terran unit . |
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Oct 7 2011, 12:24 PM
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Senior Member
579 posts Joined: Mar 2010
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QUOTE(BloodLust91 @ Oct 7 2011, 01:50 AM) Seriously, i'm getting fed up playing PvT. Almost all of my ladder matches are against TERRANS. You missed the point completely...Compare to last time, most of the matches I lost. Yes, I'm a Silver noob, but what the heck. All Terran gotta do is MMM or marine marauder tank. Once terran got 4-6 siege tanks and a ball of marine marauder. I totally cant do anything. Why? The tank damage is OP when they're own siege. All terran gotta do is just micro that ball of marine marauder. I tried ways to counter but fail. Zeal Stalker sentries. or even with colosus. Terran is owning. Sigh, my noob ranting. Really fed up with PvT games. Where the hell are Zergs and Protoss? You lose because its positional play. Remember tanks are useless if not seiged -> damn immobile. What is stop you sneaking a Wrap prism in the T base and cause some havoc. By the time the tanks unsiege or the MMM is back to the base you would have done a lot of damage. The wrap prism buff is so good its as good as a nydus. You can virtually resupply your harrassment unit non stop. Can you do that with a medivac? There is always an answer to each engagement. If you see MMT-> go Colo. If you see MMM -> chargelots and Archons. Dont engage in open space against 4-6 seiged up tanks....thats akin of FUUUU harakiri. Just because you keep losing you think its OP? It could be youre not doing something right. Back to track. Yes TVP is really one dimensionally. As a T you see what P is gettting you counter build. Which makes it boring as hell, just like TvT...its just damn predictable. As Jinro mentioned- there is no "creativity" for new builds. To me TvP is broken at the moment. That why Zerg is supremely OP at late game. They can tech switch in an instance. They can go ground, air, ground, air, back to ground just by clicking on larvas. P and T cant switch just like that. But ...the million dollar Q, can a Zerg survive until late game? That is why in 1v1, almost 99% there is no early agression from Z. They just turtle up and macro up....wait for mid and transition to end game. My 2 cents lo... |
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Oct 7 2011, 04:17 PM
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Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008
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zerg late game is a piece of crap.
ZvT terran just get like 10 ghost and mass snipe, counters ultra, BL, infestor. what else do zerg have -.- mech + ghost + maybe 1 or 2 raven enuf d. ZvP since infestor nerf, ZvP late game BL infestor deathball is so much weaker... |
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Oct 7 2011, 05:42 PM
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Senior Member
1,813 posts Joined: Apr 2007 From: Lower Perak
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go watch the lenoock and ganzi game . u will know how zerg in late games .
omg zerg so op . hehe |
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Oct 7 2011, 06:03 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(nagflar @ Oct 7 2011, 05:42 PM) go watch the lenoock and ganzi game . u will know how zerg in late games . go watch MVP vs July... go watch Bomber vs DRG... go watch MVP vs Nestea...omg zerg so op . hehe |
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Oct 7 2011, 08:55 PM
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Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008
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go watch how MVP and Bomber play TvZ......
as evo said, so disgusting. |
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Oct 7 2011, 11:13 PM
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Senior Member
1,035 posts Joined: Apr 2007 From: KL Malaysia la
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I just think its protoss to be blamed.. cuz they have not many strategy except to usually just go for a deathball :S sad to say
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Oct 7 2011, 11:19 PM
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Junior Member
304 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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go press find match~ more conventional than arguing in here
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