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 Silver as investment V2, Don't cry, buy now.

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taurusbull
post Oct 22 2011, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 22 2011, 04:14 PM)
What is a forum?
A roundtable discussion, sharing info, exchange opinion.

Sales can do via garage sales section or lynmart.

It is same with hardware section, you have hardware section to talk about hardware stuff, but not doing sales there.


Added on October 22, 2011, 4:16 pm
Forum here is not a place for trade.

We have specific trade section, if wish to trade.


Added on October 22, 2011, 4:19 pmPlease do not post sales or any kind of PM me stuff.

Thank you.
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Thank you for your clarification. You call the shot and we should follow the house rules if we want to be in this forum. That is life, making up mind takes 3 seconds, changing mind takes 3 years or maybe forever.
taurusbull
post Oct 23 2011, 07:14 PM

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QUOTE(Nidz @ Oct 23 2011, 05:54 PM)
dirham kelantan is much cheaper? really? how much is it per oz?
in what term it is safer than overseas silver?
pls clarify. notworthy.gif
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From www.dinarkel.com website:

According to Islamic Law...

The Islamic Dinar is a specific weight of 22k gold (917.) equivalent to 4.25 grams.

The Islamic Dirham is a specific weight of pure silver equivalent to 3.0 grams.

Umar Ibn al-Khattab established the known standard relationship between them based on their weights: "7 dinars must be equivalent to 10 dirhams."


From : Nubex.com.my
Kelantan 10 Dirham=29.75gm silver = RM250


Jutawan, here is your answer.

29.75 gm = RM250
1 ounce = 31.1035gm

Therefore buying Dirham 1 oz silver = RM261.37

From SLS, single 1oz bar, the most expensive 1 oz bar is RM140, and the lowest price 1 oz bar is RM130.

Meaning buying Dirham silver you must pay 100% premium over International Mint silver. People knows their Mathematics lah.

That is the reason, Lowyat Silver Group Member is smart to buy only 1 oz international mint silver bar, and not Dirham.

taurusbull
post Oct 23 2011, 10:42 PM

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QUOTE(smokymcpot @ Oct 23 2011, 10:03 PM)
Dirham not really for investment, more for using to buy stuff cause 1 Dirham is rm25. So yeah. They update the price every year I think. So buy on the month of December so next year hopefully can gain some profit. tongue.gif
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It makes sense for Dirham to be a currency as the intrinsic value is more than the value of the silver content, otherwise people will melt it for their metal content. American silver dollar was forced to be taken off from circulation in 1960s when the intrinsic value is lower than the value of silver content.

However to be a widespread currency, Dirham must exhibit fungibility like Ringgit Malaysia, accepted by all merchants, roughly 500,000 in Malaysia, and used by all 28.5 million popullation.
taurusbull
post Oct 24 2011, 10:03 AM

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QUOTE(smokymcpot @ Oct 23 2011, 11:24 PM)
Totally agree with you. I myself now also only buy silver bars compared to coins or coins with numismatic value like kookaburra and britannia and so on. smile.gif
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Two aspects of investment, no right or wrong.
Silver investor (quantitative investment)- Buy silver bars and silver rounds with the lowest premium.
Silver coin collector (qualitative investment) - Buy higher premium Silver Coins (ASE, Maple, Kook, Panda and others) and even higher premium Numismatic silver coins. Only the coin collector know how to appreciate the qualitative evaluation of the coin premium, different world and different price. Personal appreciation and enjoyment of looking and touching coins cost money, as nothing is free in this world.
taurusbull
post Oct 24 2011, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(kakiayam @ Oct 24 2011, 10:09 AM)
this is the email i receive from mike maloney's goldsilver.com, hope you guys learn something here.

The 5 Precious Metal Scams to Avoid

So perhaps you’ve decided to invest in gold and/or silver; but wait!

There are a few things you need to know before you begin your journey with precious metals.

At GoldSilver.com, we have spent years educating our customers on the virtues of investing in gold and silver, and we believe those who have made the choice to invest in precious metals, specifically silver and gold, are going to be on the winning side of a massive impending wealth transfer. But that doesn’t mean all precious metals investments are the same.

We personally invest in gold bullion and silver bullion right alongside our customers, so we have a vested interest in not only figuring out the optimal timing in the marketplace, but also figuring out the best vehicles in which to make an investment in precious metals.

Over the years, a vast number of precious metals-type investments have proliferated in the marketplace, but are they the real deal or are they dangerous to your long-term financial health? Many precious metals-type investments offer some benefits, but can also multiply your risk.

Rest assured, we at GoldSilver.com have done the research, we can help streamline your learning process and hopefully, help you to make the right investment choices the first time you commit to buy.

Before people invest in precious metals, they must understand their reasons for doing so. For most of us, the goals are wealth preservation and the chance for spectacular gains. There are easy, safe, and low-cost ways to accomplish those goals.

Shortly, we will tell you the best way to invest in precious metals, but first, it’s important you learn the worst possible silver and gold scams.  By knowing about potentially dangerous precious metals investments you will better understand the stakes and more easily make the right investment decisions for yourself and your family.


Added on October 24, 2011, 10:10 am1. Numismatics

A numismatic coin is a collector coin that has value in excess of its metal content because it is historical or rare. As a gold and silver bullion dealer, people often expect us to carry numismatics coins—but we don't. Why? Because collector coins are a different investment than gold and silver bullion. 

When you invest in a numismatic coin, you are taking a major risk because you are already deep in the hole as soon as you purchase the coin. If you don’t believe us, try buying and immediately selling a numismatic coin—you’re likely to lose anywhere between 20 and 50% of your purchase price right off the bat.

Consider this: when you buy a numismatic coin you pay three different layers of costs—1) the cost of the metal, 2) the dealer’s spread, and 3) the numismatic premium. The numismatic premium can range anywhere from a few bucks to a few hundred thousand bucks.

That means before you are “in the money,” the market price of your coin must have gone up more than enough to cover the numismatic premium. Until then, your collector coin will be a loser. 

Over the years, gold and silver dealers have build a mythos around numismatic coins—as if they offer some mystical advantage to plain gold and silver bullion. Those myths have been created, not because numismatic coins are good for the buyer, but because they are good for the seller.

The biggest myth about numismatic coins is that the government can never confiscate them.  The second biggest collector coin myth is that they do not have to be reported to the government. Less-than-scrupulous precious metals dealers have made a living selling “non-confiscatable” and “non-reportable coins” that come with a hefty numismatic premium and hefty price tag.

The “non-confiscatable” myth refers back to 1933, when U.S. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, in a misguided attempt to combat deflation and stabilize the U.S. dollar in the throes of the Great Depression, signed into law an Executive Order 6102 that banned U.S. citizens from owning any gold—if you didn’t exchange your gold for Federal Reserve notes, you could be sentenced for up to 10 years in prison.

The only exception under Roosevelt’s order was collectible gold coins (rare or unusual, having “a recognized special value” to the owner). That exception to the law spawned myths that persist to this day: it is simply untrue that gold coins minted prior to 1933 are "non-reportable" and “non-confiscatable.”

By describing these old coins as non-reportable and non-confiscatable, the dealer implies to the customer that coins minted after 1933 are “reportable” to the government and “confiscatable” by the government. Understandably, many customers are spooked by those prospects and are persuaded to purchase heavy premium pre-1933 collectible coins—usually earning the dealer a nice, hefty profit.

Our suggestion is that unless you are an expert in numismatic coins, avoid them—their fundamental drivers are different from those that drive bullion, and during a financial crisis, when we want our wealth to be most protected, numismatic coins may leave you high and dry.


Added on October 24, 2011, 10:10 am2. Pools & Certificates

When you buy into a bullion pool or certificate, you become a creditor of the bullion bank storing your precious metals. Just as when you deposit your currency at a bank, the bank doesn't keep your dollars separate from everyone else’s dollars; the bank simply tells you in your bank statements or online how much it owes you—essentially, your wealth is transmuted into digits in a computer.

Legally, however, when you buy into a gold pool or certificate program, the bank becomes the owner of your precious metals.

If the bullion bank gets into financial trouble, (gasp! Imagine that!) it can sell your gold to maintain its assets at a level where it won’t get shut down and where it will avoid a run on the bank.

In that instance, you won’t be paid back in gold, but rather in currency—less currency than the value of the gold the bank owed you—because logically a bank in trouble almost certainly would be forced to sell your assets at fire-sale prices. If you live in a country with some kind of bank deposit protection (such as the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation in the United States or Financial Services Compensation Scheme in the U.K.), your gold will not be covered. That’s because deposit insurance only applies to currency—meaning that, in the likely event of a bank crash, currency deposits are safer than unallocated gold. 

So why would anyone invest in one of these types of sketchy accounts? Simple. It’s cheap and easy... and everyone loves cheap and easy, right?

Purchasing gold or silver through pools or certificate programs is cheaper than purchasing a like amount of physical gold or silver, primarily because most pools or certificates hold the metals in unallocated storage—which means your metals are comingled with everyone else’s metal. What’s yours is not yours—and in the event that your bullion bank goes under—it’s theirs.

If you are going to store precious metals, take a look at our bonded and insured silver and gold vaulting options in Salt Lake City, Miami, Hong Kong, etc. These vault storage options are both segregated and allocated, which means that your metals are stored separately in your name and are owned by you alone. If we go under, your metals stay in your name, and you will never be beholden to a bank.


Added on October 24, 2011, 10:11 am3. Leverage Accounts

Leveraged investing is when you borrow currency in order to invest. In a traditional investment strategy, you might set aside a certain amount every month to be invested, so that the principal you had invested would grow over time, compounded by any earnings on the investment. With a leveraged investment, you would invest a large sum up-front, then make regular payments to pay back the amount you borrowed, plus the interest. The potential advantage of the leveraged investment is that there is a supposedly larger amount earning returns over a longer period of time. If the return on your investment is greater than the principal borrowed plus the interest, your leveraged investment has outperformed a traditional investment.

Leverage can dramatically increase your investment winnings, and leverage can be great for those who are educated in the proper techniques and are skilled in its use.

But if you don't know what you're doing (and sometimes even if you do), leverage can also magnify your losses to 100% and beyond. It's this simple: when you introduce leverage… you introduce risk.

Margin investment is borrowing money from your broker to buy a stock and using your investment as collateral. Margin generally enables the investor to own more stock without paying full price for it. The downside to margin is, if your investment loses money, your losses are exponentially greater. In the case of margin, you are going up against a mathematical formula and compounding fees that are engineered to work against the novice.

Leveraged investing is the realm of professionals who know no greed or fear; they just know the odds and the numbers, and they know how to eat the little guy for breakfast. You never know who's taking the other side of the bet. Many times you are going up against very "Deep Pocket" traders such as mutual funds and hedge funds. Either way, if you're not better than they are… you're dead.

4. Futures & Options

Futures and Options are contracts that can give precious metals investors leverage, which can magnify their gains, but also, magnify their losses.

If there were to be a default on the commodities exchanges during the coming gold and silver rush, we believe the exchanges could change the rules to allow liquidation orders only.

In that case, investors holding futures contracts for gold or silver would be forced to accept payment in cash (currency) instead of redeeming their shares for physical silver or gold, as their contracts entitle them to do. In an alternate scenario the exchanges might freeze prices on all open contracts, while prices on gold and silver for immediate delivery and off exchange silver (silver in private hands or silver in private vaults outside of the commodities exchanges) continue to shoot for the moon. It has happened before, and it will likely happen again.

5. Gold ETFs / Silver ETFs

When you invest in a gold or silver exchange-traded fund, you do not become the sole owner of actual gold or silver. For an ETF represented to be backed by gold or silver, the fund managers will contract with a custodian to hold the gold or silver in a vault. The custodian is usually a large, international bank, serving as a custodian for numerous customers. Most of the time, because the custodian is a huge multi-national corporation with thousands of accounts, when gold or silver is bought or sold, the metal never physically moves. Title to the bars of gold or silver is simply transferred from the seller to the buyer as a book entry in a massive computer network.

This is where problems can arise: If the custodian is allowed to appoint sub-custodians, and the sub-custodians are allowed to appoint sub-sub-custodians and so on, now the gold or silver is spread out over various geographic locations. The only way to prove these sub-custodians hold enough gold or silver at any given point in time to fully back the account is for the ETF to require the custodian and all sub-custodians to be audited, during non-trading hours, all on the same day. If the gold ETF or silver ETF does not regularly require this type of audit of its custodian and sub-custodians, chances are high that the same physical gold may be purchased or owned by the same entity or individual at the same time.

Many metals experts believe that silver ETFs and gold ETFs may hold less than the amount of precious metals they supposedly own or none at all.

For most of us precious metals investors, the essence of keeping your hard-earned wealth in precious metals is to own a physical asset that can weather any economic storm. When you put your wealth in ETFs, you simply become an unsecured creditor of a mega-bank that will happily gobble up your wealth if financial turmoil strikes.

As is true of any electronic or paper form of wealth, the investor can be denied access to the value of his or her gold ETF or silver ETF shares due to Acts of God, war, force majeure, confiscation, computer glitches, fraud, insolvency, lawsuits, liens, garnishment, etc. Given those caveats, coupled with the very real possibility that silver and gold ETFs are not backed by physical gold or silver, investing in real, physical gold or silver will always be the safer bet. The higher premiums investors pay for physical gold and silver stored either their home or in a segregated fully insured vault account seems a small price to pay in exchange for a safe and secure investment.

One final note on silver and gold ETFs, due to high annual ETF management fees, more often than not, it is much less expensive to store precious metals in a private, segregated, fully insured gold and silver vault as opposed to having your silver ETF or gold ETF shares diluted from exchange trade fund or ETF management fees.

For More On Why Physical Bullion Stored In A Private Segregated Vault Is A Much Wiser

In Closing…

At GoldSilver.com, we want our investors to be educated, so that they can make the best decisions for themselves and their families. We don’t sell or offer many types of products simply because we don’t believe in them—and we won’t invest in them ourselves. We offer secure vault storage and home delivery because that is how we store our own precious metals—in hand or in the hands of fully insured secure vault storage custodians we trust, outside of the banks and the failing financial system.

Even if you don’t purchase your precious metals from our company, we want you to be well informed to better deal with the gold and silver investment world out there—hopefully you are now more aware of the various gold scams, silver frauds, and potential pitfalls when making your silver and gold investment decisions.
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I agreed with the above article with the exception on one cerificate program that is worth investing.

Peter Schiff, CEO of Euro Pacific Precious Metals, the strongest critic of US greenback and strong advocate of precious metal has being recommending investors to invest in Perth Mint Certificate Program.

The reasons are as follows:
Insured by Lloyd Insurance, UK.
Guaranteed by Western Australia Government, the only in the world
Provide both allocated bullion (silver and gold) and unallocated bullion (only gold)
Perth Mint is not a bullion bank or EFT company.


I only recommend Malaysian to buy the Pert Mint Certificate Program if they don't wished to repatriate their money back to Malaysia, otherwise you will loose the forex transaction fee of about 3% each way, meaning you had lost 6% when you started. I had bought it because I need to pay my balance 20% downpayment for a Melbourne apartment due in 3 years time, I am actually hedging AUD vs MYR and Silver vs USD.
taurusbull
post Oct 24 2011, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(getsmart @ Oct 24 2011, 10:50 AM)
Where else can you get a silver coin for RM25 (2.975g)?
Is there a 1/10oz (3.11g) silver american eagle coin?
I'll buy only 1 dirham, coz it's low value and it's actually accepted by some shop.
Not sure how to sell back to KGT or what is the spread between buy and sell price.
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There are actually 1/10, 1/2 ounce American Silver Eagle Rounds. The mint charged mintage about USD0.50 per round, meaning the following:

10 pcs of 1/10 oz rounds (1 oz of silver) needs to pay USD0.50 x 10 = USD5 mintage for 1 oz of silver
2 pcs of 1/2 oz rounds (1 oz of silver) needs to pay USD0.50 x 2 = USD1 mintage for 1 oz of silver
1 pc of 1 oz round (1 oz of silver) nneds to pay only USD0.50 mintage for 1 oz of silver


Nobody in their right frame of mind that investing in silver bullion should buy lower than 1 oz of silver round or bar to pay the unnecessary mintage fee.
taurusbull
post Oct 24 2011, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(cruzzie73 @ Oct 24 2011, 12:24 PM)
Nice piece of information, Kakiayam. I think all silver and gold investors should read this and fully understand the message.

Taurusbull, thanks for the info. But the small denominations have slightly different purpose from just keeping value of the money, as they are good for medium of exchange (for small valued items) when there is a need. Small silver pieces may not be the best medium of exchange, but just in case situation requires, they may come in handy. Just my humble opinion.
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Sorry I am making assumption like others that we are in peaceful Malaysia with normal inflation, and not a hyperinflation like in Zimbabwe. In normal scenario, the discussion of currency of dirham vs MYR vs USD should not be here, as this forum is about silver investment.

In abnormal scenario of hyperinflation or we become refugee, considering the weight of silver, gold flakes or coins become more practical as used by Vietnamese refugee in 1970s. The following silver round/bar will be ideal without paying the extra premium, if small change is what you are talking about.

Stagecoach Silver
"For When You Have To Get Out of Dodge"
Protect and prepare for any oncoming crisis when you own “divisible” 1-oz. Stagecoach Silver bars and rounds from Northwest Territorial Mint. This portable and tradable silver bullion is perfect for when you need to get out of Dodge fast! Whether .999-fine silver bar or round, each is scored into four pieces, giving them the potential to be split up should the need arise. Stock up and be ready with this barter-friendly bullion today.


Attached ImageAttached ImageAttached ImageAttached Image
taurusbull
post Oct 24 2011, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 24 2011, 02:05 PM)
For example
these raw little babies were going for $1400 in 2009-Ultra High Relief Double Eagle gold coin
Now they are selling at $3000 at the bay! 

http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?_nkw=2009+u...6.c0.m270.l1311
user posted image

user posted image
rclxms.gif
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Good for Prophetjul, a qualitative investment of coins is akin to arts or antiques collection. You need high level of knowledge and time commitment to ascertain value of buy and sell. For those expert in this area, it is a good investment. For those that are not, advise to stay out.
taurusbull
post Oct 24 2011, 06:38 PM

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QUOTE(GoldChan @ Oct 24 2011, 06:11 PM)
well, stage coach silver bar is minted by Northwest Territorial Mint. The delay is approx 4 months upon full payment. Thus, difficult to sell lah if that the case.
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Good point, GoldChan. As a dealer, to maximise profit, you need to speed up "velocity of money", cash tied up 4 months is a no go.
taurusbull
post Oct 25 2011, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(chunyen2020 @ Sep 30 2011, 08:38 PM)
Well, this is the long awaiting V2. smile.gif

Will update the details once I gathered enough information.
Need to korek from previous thread.  tongue.gif

READ THIS BEFORE YOU BUY SILVER

http://www.thepreciousmetal.com/knowledge.html
http://www.silverbullionbars.org/
http://www.cashforgoldinsider.com/silver-bullion-bars/


Questions about tax imposing on physical silver

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Dear Silverian,
I am happy to attach the Quantitative Silver Investment Table Guide extracted from multiple delaers from the Web on 25th.October.2011. The main aim to allow reader to know how much they are paying in RM/Troy Oz for pure silver in the various form factors and weighing standards. Happy easy pure silver hunting.
Attached File  Quantitative_Silver_Investment.pdf ( 971.31k ) Number of downloads: 149



taurusbull
post Oct 25 2011, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(property101 @ Oct 25 2011, 05:04 PM)
Hi taurusbull, thanks for the diagram.
But I dont understand something, the price (in RM) is derived from what? Is that particular spot price or purely Dirham standard?
Does this diagram only applicable to Dirham?
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Hi Property,
In Malaysian market, physical silvers are sold in 3 diffrent weighing standards ( Gram, Dirham and Troy Ounce), and many investors are unaware the amount of actual silver (99.9%) in Troy Ounce they get for the piece of physical silver they purchased from dealers. What the table did is to normalise and converted all physical silver into Troy Ounce, and then show their actual pure silver price per Troy Ounce. That will create an "apple to apple comparison" for pure silver investment.

Good luck.


Added on October 25, 2011, 5:20 pm
QUOTE(taurusbull @ Oct 25 2011, 05:17 PM)
Hi Property,
In Malaysian market, physical silvers are sold in 3 diffrent weighing standards ( Gram, Dirham and Troy Ounce), and many investors are unaware the amount of actual silver (99.9%) in Troy Ounce they get for the piece of physical silver they purchased from dealers. What the table did is to normalise and converted all physical silver into Troy Ounce, and then show their actual pure silver price per Troy Ounce. That will create an "apple to apple comparison" for pure silver investment.

Good luck.
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The price was taken from 4 dealers' websites, and not fair to quote name or using one dealer pricing. This is only for comparative study and definitely everyone will buy at different prices but it should not deviate too much.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Oct 25 2011, 05:20 PM
taurusbull
post Oct 26 2011, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(Bill_muar @ Oct 26 2011, 05:35 AM)
Er anyone know the address, phone & e-mail of The Lone Ranger & Tonto?
Maybe THEY would like my 80% silver/20% copper allloy!?
"Hopeful" :-)
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Dear Bill,
Can you show images of your "Junk Silver, <90% silver content" for us to view? Thanks
taurusbull
post Oct 26 2011, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(property101 @ Oct 26 2011, 11:04 AM)
ah....my dream price of USD26 seems getting far far away....
looks like it floating around USD33 today
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Bro, look at Post #892 on timing. We are just human and not silver gods like JP Morgan and FED, and short term predictions is out of our reach. We are here because we know the long term silver fundamental, and we are quite sure 2 - 5 years will be our pay day. Maybe buying weekly or monthly with our disposable saving regardless of price, like the "unit trust EPF investment" will be a solution to our flaws short term price predictions?? Any other opinion please??????????????????
taurusbull
post Oct 26 2011, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(property101 @ Oct 26 2011, 01:43 PM)
too bad that i started late, i only started to read and listen to mike meloney from 2011 onwards
but i would say year 2011 is one of the most exciting year in silver recent history  rclxms.gif
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If the long term forecast is a conservative USD50 and the over stretch USD1,000, the best time is always now, like Nike's motto; JUST DO IT.

My own little story on precious metals: 3 years ago I was told to invest in gold at USD900, and as a trained engineer started researching on historical gold price, and found out the lowest price of gold over previous 10 years was USD200. I concluded I missed the boat. Same story at USD1,200 and USD1,400. Finally I bought a small pc of 50g gold when spot price was USD1,500, and start doing research on gold, but discover silver instead. I bought Perth Mint Certificate Program when silver was USD39 in middle September, 2011. One week later the price crashed to USD26 and closed at USD28 on September. 26th. I have being buying ever since from USD28 to USD 32. Last Thursday I stayed up to buy a shipment of physical silver, watching the screen for hours and decided to strike when spot price was USD30.80. Happy like hell when price move up to USD31.50 within one hour. Then two hours later, price went down to USD30, and I was getting pissed. Fortunately a few hours later it closed at USD30.80 again. The rest is all history, I hanged up my towel for short term price prediction, and I concluded I can't predict price even for 1 minute. I am planning to buy 2 or 3 times a month depending on my mood rather than on the spot price.

Good luck, Property.
taurusbull
post Oct 26 2011, 10:06 PM

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Just received my new 1 & 10 oz Walking Liberty Bars, with same emblem as American Silver Eagle Dollar.
Attached Image Attached Image
taurusbull
post Oct 27 2011, 12:53 AM

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10 different designs 1oz rounds and 2 designs 1/2 oz rounds. FYI only.
Attached File  Silver_rounds.pdf ( 337.91k ) Number of downloads: 58

taurusbull
post Nov 3 2011, 06:21 PM

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I bought AUD10k silver when spot is USD39 on 3rd week of September, and on 26th.September the spot price when down to USD26, and closed at USD30. That was my first purchase of silver, and I had bought many folds that amount ever since because it will be a good silver mistake worth repeating in a few years time.

Happy reading.

Cheers!

A GOLDEN MISTAKE WORTH REPEATING
by Jeff Clark of Casey Research


The following conversation took place between a friend's son and me. He's a bright but relatively young investor. He had purchased some gold based on some things I'd told his father. Shortly afterward, the price dropped hard. As you'll see, he was not very happy with my advice and said so in an email to me. So I called him...

I: Sounds like you're upset.

Friend: Yeah, that's putting it mildly. What the hell am I supposed to do now?

I: Because the gold price has dropped?

Friend: Yes! It's down 15% in a month! I thought you said this was going to be a good investment.

I: It is. And it will be. You might even consider buying more here if you have the funds.

Friend: I have some other money, but why would I put it in gold? It's losing money.

I: Because it's on sale. Because it's cheaper now than when you bought it. And especially because none of the reasons for buying it have gone away.

Friend: That doesn't mean it's going to go back up.

I: As I told your dad, there are no guarantees, but I think it will have to go higher. Either way, it will hold its purchasing power over time. We're holding it as an alternate currency, a more sound form of money that can't be debased.

Friend: Yeah, well, my money just got debased, big time. It needs to go up 20% for me just to get back to even.

I: Five years from now your dollars will have lost at least 10% of their value, based just on current trends. There's a good chance it will lose more than that. And gold will probably rise more than 10% a year.

Friend: [silence.]

I: Look, I know you're upset, but I'd hate to see you bail. This is one of the best investments we can make this decade.

Friend [relenting a little bit]: You really believe that.

I: I can't promise you anything, but yes, I do.

Friend: And that's because you think inflation is coming.

I: It's for a lot of reasons, and that's one of them. Inflation is virtually baked in the cake; the dollar's long-term problems will be impractical to resolve; and the global economy is on high alert. These are exactly the kind of circumstances gold is meant for.
Friend: Then why is it falling?

I: Institutions need cash and liquidity, and gold offers a bid. Besides, nothing goes up in a straight line, and gold had just run up 35%. It was time for a break.

Friend: So this big drop really doesn't worry you.

I: It doesn't. I'm buying. In fact, I'll prove it to you - send me your gold and I'll buy it from you.
Friend: [Silence.]

I: I know it doesn't feel good right now, and it may take some time for it to make another new high, but gold is too important not to own here. It's a long-term trade, so plan on holding it for a while. In fact, if it helps, just forget about the fact that you own it - go do something fun and have a beer at the pub.

Friend: [a little chuckle].

I: I don't think you made a mistake buying at the price you did, in spite of it being lower now. Odds are high you'll be happy in a few years.

Friend: [pause] All right...

I'm glad my son's friend decided to hold on, because that conversation took place in June, 2006! He'd bought gold at around $700 and watched a month later as the price fell to as low as $567.
Gold ended up declining a total of 21% in just five weeks before bottoming, after a run-up of 35% (sound familiar?). And yes, it took over a year before it hit a new high.
Yet, my son's friend - now older and wiser - wishes he could go back in time and make the same mistake again and buy gold at $700. His investment is sitting on more than a double, in spite of buying at a temporary peak.
I think that a few years from now we'll all wish we could go "back in time" and buy gold at $1,700. And I believe you'll still feel that way if gold falls to $1,500, as some writers are projecting.
I think this because circumstances now are worse - and hence more bullish for gold - than they were in 2006. Look at how much money we've printed (the monetary base now exceeds $2.6 trillion, a mind-boggling 200% increase since 2006). Look at the state of the global economy: highly vulnerable and propped up by governments. Consider the lingering and inescapable predicament of many European nations - how, exactly, will this be resolved in a healthy way? Ask yourself if the outlook for the US dollar is out of the woods (roughly 10% of federal revenue now goes solely to debt payments - a figure that is projected to triple). Explain how the reckless path of deficit spending will shift without causing some kind of major impact on the economy (history shows abject deficit spending leads to economic downfall, virtually without exception). Tell me how we avoid massive inflation, an outcome that seems so certain at this point that about the only way to avoid it would be a massive global meltdown - and even then, the Fed would surely print to oblivion.

Like I told my son's friend, nothing is guaranteed. But until real interest rates are positive again, government leaders instigate honest solutions to our debts and deficits, the global economy becomes an engine of growth, the sovereign debt issues in Europe are genuinely resolved, and global currencies - especially the US dollar - are strong again, I'm buying gold.

Yes, there will be volatility. And yes, a short-term "solution" to what seems like certain default in Greece, for example, would cause some investors to sell gold. But like in the spring of 2006, these are temporary, short-term fixes only. For the tumult that is most likely ahead, there simply isn't any better currency protection than gold and silver.
Join me in calling your favorite bullion dealer and making the mistake of buying gold at $1,700.

Jeff Clark is the editor of BIG GOLD, Casey Research's monthly advisory on gold, silver, and large-cap precious metals stocks. For more information and to subscribe, click here.
taurusbull
post Nov 5 2011, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(cruzzie73 @ Nov 5 2011, 12:43 AM)
Hi Desvaro,

1) There are a few ways you can liquidate your silver. One is to sell it yourself via internet, ie FB groups (there are a few FB groups for silver investors), forums, eBay, mudah.com, etc. This way you can get the most value out of your silver.

Another way is to sell to the dealer you bought your silver from. Be prepared for a spread of 10-15%. Spread % for silver is higher because of its relatively lower value as compared to gold. I'm sure there will be dealers/buyers who can absorb all your silver if you sell at spot price. 

2) If you read through from pages 1-58, there were several mentions about ETF and other paper products, very good insights about physical vs paper. The reason many of us go for physical is that we want to exchange our paper money with the real money, in other words, to get away from paper. Furthermore, with physical, we get to touch, hold, and appreciate the beauty of the real money.  That's why the dragons are such hot topics here recently  smile.gif
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Dear All,
After 5 weeks involvement in LY forum, I reckoned the best strategy is become Long Term Investor in Lowyat (Buy) and Short Term Trader (Sell) in SLS for quick cash. Forget about selling back to seller with 15% discount from market price.

More Silverian traders please! If you sell and make a profit, you will spread the silver story wide, and that will generate demand in Malaysia.

Good money hunting through silver.
taurusbull
post Nov 5 2011, 11:10 AM

Getting Started
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Junior Member
251 posts

Joined: Sep 2011
QUOTE(Nidz @ Nov 5 2011, 10:55 AM)
This is one of the strategies im applying. But the main point is to source for cheapest supplier so that u can offer competitive prices. That is the hard part.
Another difficult part is to sell. The SLS group now has alot of seller. The buyer-seller ratio is not so good for traders. Once ppl are familiar with u, then okay la..
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If everyone cooperate, we can make the trading eco-system works for everyone benefit. Importer can share their inventory for dealers in Lowyat. Importer can sell in SLS but not selling to every Tom, d*** and Harry the same price as in LY.

My next shipment posted in LY FB is to try to provide space for everyone. I am offering unit price 1oz bar at RM130. In LY I will offer 75+6, 15+1 and 8+0.5 packages. I SLS, I will offer only 1pc, 8+0.5 packages.

Let see how it work out. Muhsin requested it.
taurusbull
post Nov 6 2011, 12:04 PM

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Joined: Sep 2011
Dear Low Yat Folks,
Attached is an updated Conversion to Troy Ounce Retail Price Guide on Nov.6th.2011. I notice a trend. Can anyone care to comment why retail prices sold in troy ounce seems to be cheaper?


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Troy_Ounce_Conversion_Table.pdf ( 975.91k ) Number of downloads: 58

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