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 Silver as investment V2, Don't cry, buy now.

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taurusbull
post Dec 15 2011, 09:24 AM

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QUOTE(GoldChan @ Dec 15 2011, 08:34 AM)
according to many studies, use old small car is the best, the amount of energy needed to build a car will required a car to run for 100,000 miles b4 the energy investment is returned.
Hybrid car is net energy loss if you calculate the whole life-cycle of it unless U can get 250K km out of it.

Added on December 15, 2011, 8:40 amwell for a start U can dig a well (10cm wide) if U have a landed property such as corner house or banglo.
investment RM5k. manual pump water supply.
the rest of the things I wish is it so simply.
in the end it's about people U deal with and those whom stay nearby u.

Added on December 15, 2011, 8:42 amland for palm oil and durian is just for lazy investor.
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Toyota Prius/Lexus CT200h/Honda Insight is giving 8sen/km, 9sen/km and 11sen/km respectively. Kancil is getting around 13-15sen/km. Who is talking? I am saving RM800/month on my petrol alone by driving a Hybrid car.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Dec 15 2011, 09:25 AM
taurusbull
post Dec 15 2011, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(potenza10 @ Dec 15 2011, 12:31 PM)
I heard battery replacement for hybrid car is quite expensive..can share on that mr taurus since u are using hybrid car?
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No local battery life history, but based on USA's Toyota Prius history since 1997, the typical battery life is about 10years. The Toyota/Lexus Hybrid's battery cost is about RM10,000, meaning estimated battery cost is about RM1,000/year, or RM83/month. We have a BWM 318 and Mitisubishi Grandis family cars, and the saving of RM800/month is when we add another Lexus CT200h Hybrid car, and the total family's petrol bill drop from RM2,000/month to R1,200/month.

If based on my company car before retirement, Mercedes S300, the saving should be >RM2,000/month, and of course it will be a David and Goliath comparison, similar to people trying to compare fuel comsumption between a 1800cc car and 660cc car.

I hope that answer your queries regarding hybrid car, whcih is only a stop gap technology, as the world is moving to PHEV, Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle, and mass production expected the next 2 to 5 years when the charging stations infrastructure are ready country by country.
taurusbull
post Dec 16 2011, 10:16 PM

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A paragraph from Ted Butler's mid-week review:

"If there is an easy explanation for the price smash in gold (the deliberate rig below important moving averages), what about silver, which was already well below all its important moving averages before the selling commenced this week? The only thing I can offer is that silver is more illiquid and easier to manipulate than gold. No matter what the COT structure may be in silver, if gold suddenly falls $150 in a few days, it should result in a sharp sympathetic price decline in silver as well. And the commercials have such a strangle-hold on the smaller silver market, that I believe that silver was brought lower at times (like Sunday evening and earlier today) for the express purpose of pushing gold lower. The commercial crooks know just how to use one market to influence another. From any objective reading of the COT structure, silver is spectacularly bullish. Lower prices only re-enforce the bullish structure".

Hang-in there folks!!!!
taurusbull
post Dec 17 2011, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(property101 @ Dec 17 2011, 09:05 AM)
just curious, chinese panda is considered legal tender or not ?
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Every silver pieces, regardless of size, shape or weight, that indicates a nominal value of any currency is a legal tender, and classified as coin. Yesterday a custom officer in KLIA just reminded me that we have a square 1sen about 40-50 years ago.

I just paid >RM900 sales and import tax for my 1KG Silver Proof Ox, and I am happy I do my part to follow the law of the land.


Added on December 17, 2011, 11:08 am
QUOTE(taurusbull @ Dec 17 2011, 10:46 AM)
Every silver pieces, regardles of size, shape or weight, that indicates a nominal value of any currency is a legal tender, and classified as coin. Yesterday a custom officer in KLIA just reminded me that we have a square 1sen about 40-50 years ago.

I just paid >RM900 sales and import tax for my 1KG Silver Proof Ox, and I am happy I do my part to follow the law of the land.
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It is also my 3rd times importing silver rounds without tax. Again standing firm when the law is behind you, and don't be intimidated by authorities.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Dec 17 2011, 05:28 PM
taurusbull
post Dec 17 2011, 03:09 PM

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QUOTE(GoldChan @ Dec 16 2011, 02:26 PM)
my regrets are
1. i should have keep all my panda rather than selling it off cheaply last time.
2. Should have completed all the panda years when it is still cheap in 2008/2009.
just a bit stingy back then on numismatic.
Chef:
BMW X7 = Bring me women but the X 7 means
bring me women x (times) 7 times.  rclxms.gif

is it true arh!
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GoldChan,
What I talked about is we can do our part to protect the earth to consume less fuel and emitting less polution by using Hybrid car, and using less electricity by cutting unnecessary usage. What you are talking about is the energy comsumption preceding the production of goods. In that case, you should just settle down in an island and live the life of Robinson Cruzoe, all using natural and non-polluting resources. Too far backward iteration, beyond many people's comtemplation. Carbon credit and carbon debt will be in the back burner for many years to come given the developed countries currently engulfed in their respective economic crisis, and it will continue to be NATO (No Action Talk Only).

Never regret, life is a journey and not a destination. Mistakes or missed opportunities are lessons, if learned well, will propel you to your dream ideals. Your competitors are your best teachers, as they will point out your weaknesses most willingly.

The acronym for BMW is Boos Money and Women, boos referring to liquor drink. In BMW, there are 1 series, 3 series, 5 series , 6 series, and 7 series for sedan. For SUV they have X1, X3, X5 and X6, and BMW intend to launch X7 in 2014. I wondered how on earth someone had driven a BMW X7 when it is not even in production yet? Amazing sometime people talk ?, when they are supposed to have intellectual discourse.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Dec 17 2011, 05:56 PM
taurusbull
post Dec 18 2011, 12:37 AM

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QUOTE(chunyen2020 @ Dec 17 2011, 10:13 PM)
Taurusbull did some analysis about the dirham.
Read it up.
Dirham are not meant for investment purposes.
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Dirhams
Advantages:
1) Legal tender currency used in most Islamic countries.
2) Intrinsic Islamic and Commercial premium.
3) Legal tender in Malayisa of 1 Dirham=RM25.
4) Silver denominations of 1, 2, 5,10 and 20 Dirhams, easy for barter transactions and exchanges.
Disadvantages:
1) Silver price of RM261.27/troy oz is more than 100% premium over retail physical silver bar
2) 1/10 oz silver round is RM17/pc with 4.6% more silver than 1 Dirham (RM25/pc)
3) 1/2 oz silver round is RM68/pc with 4.6% more silver than 5 Dirham (RM125/pc)
4) 1 oz silver round is RM120/pc with 4.6% more silver than 10 Dirham (RM250/pc)

I had just sold off my first batch of Fractional Silver Survival Change Package (1pc of 1/2 oz ASE Round + 5pcs of 1/10 oz ASE Round + 1 plastic container packaging) at RM153/set in LSGG.
The next shipment (in 5 weeks time) of the above Fractional Silver Survival Change Package will be sold for RM158/set, similar to what I sold the last one set in SLS at RM158/set.


If you go for pure silver and you need small fractional change, go for my above set.

If you go for pure silver and you don't need fractional change, go for 1 oz bar/round for the lowest premium.

If you need commercial and islamic consideration, still go for Dirhams.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Dec 18 2011, 08:40 AM
taurusbull
post Dec 22 2011, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(RRR @ Dec 21 2011, 10:52 PM)
I know that's for Pearl Mint (sample only) but where to get similar box like that.
1oz got also but price high... gift for 1 person still OK but few relatives, pokai leh...
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Go to LSGG to see my home-made packing for Fractional Silver Survival Change package. The cointainer I used fit in nicely the size of 1/2oz silver.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Dec 22 2011, 10:14 AM
taurusbull
post Dec 27 2011, 12:34 AM

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QUOTE(chrischin @ Dec 26 2011, 11:36 AM)
Hey guys,

Finally i found a chart dating back some 600+ years for gold silver ratio. The chart shows that from 1344 to early 1800, the ratio is somewhat fixed at 15 : 1. It is until 1850 (there about) when the US (i believe) demonetized silver, that the ratio began to spiral up to the mid 40s to 1. and thereafter, the ratio has been fluctuation between that level and even as high as 153 in the year 1939.

http://goldinfo.net/silver-600.aspx

I always wondered why people like Mike Maloney always says that historically, the ratio was 15 to 1. Alas, i found the chart showing the ratio.
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From Wikipedia
Like most commodities, the price of silver is driven by speculation and supply and demand. Compared to gold, the silver price is notoriously volatile. This is because of lower market liquidity, and demand fluctuations between industrial and store of value uses. At times this can cause wide ranging valuations in the market, creating volatility.[3]

Silver often tracks the gold price due to store of value demands, although the ratio can vary. The gold/silver ratio is often analyzed by traders, investors and buyers.[4] In Roman times, the ratio was set at one to 12 or 12.5.[5] In 1792, the gold/silver ratio was fixed by law in the United States at 1:15,[6] which meant that one troy ounce of gold would buy 15 troy ounces of silver; a ratio of 1:15.5 was enacted in France in 1803.[7] The average gold/silver ratio during the 20th century, however, was 1:47.[8] The lower the ratio/number, the more expensive silver is compared to gold. Conversely the higher the ratio/number, the cheaper silver is compared to gold.

The most recent time when Gold Silver Ratio fell below 15 was in 1980 when the Hunter Brothers cornered the silver market.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Dec 27 2011, 12:35 AM
taurusbull
post Dec 30 2011, 08:53 PM

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QUOTE(pubmut @ Dec 29 2011, 12:14 AM)
Property101

Dr.Kong, I presume, is an academic and I reckon he:

1. does not want to reveal too much because you haven't paid him enough to do so or

2. does not know the answer because he does not have the werewithal to track and integrate world affairs, business and economics to make that call.

Mike has a team that looks into all of these aspects (he refers to it as a "basket of indicators") before he comes up with a call to exit.  Some of the indicators include:

1. Gold:Silver ratio (straightforward choose your number)
2. Amount of silver to buy a median sized house (tricky one for definitions)
3. Amount of gold to buy a share of the Dow

The simple solution to know this?

1. Buy from Goldsilver (win-win situation)
2. Subscribe to WealthCycles (cheapest at USD226 per year)

There are other premium newsletters but they cost a mint (RMxxxx.0).

I hope this helps.
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I enjoyed reading your postings. Keep it coming, and thanks
taurusbull
post Jan 26 2012, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(chef @ Jan 25 2012, 01:38 PM)
For investment, it's the best. for hedging against inflation and to retain value of money, bullion bars are the best.

I think we should all be clear, so this is my summary, different point of view from different people, no right or wrong o.k?

- Silver bars and rounds : To be purchased as a form of savings, not to be used for trading, to retain your value of your currency.
- Silver coins with numistic value : To be purchased when you are into collecting beautiful design and are willing to pay a little more when money is not an issue. These are usually used for trading with people who are looking for trading and making profit during good times.

As long as the world is still in normal operation and not scrambling for resources like food or oil, going into war with each other, people will pay extra money for nice coins. This I would call investment and looking for return.

If the world financial collapse or war happen, 1oz of silver is 1oz of silver, in whatever shapes and design it does not matter, if there are people who wants silver in exchange for rice or food or oil, 1oz is 1oz. These are not investment, but savings which will be used later for trading.

chef

PS Anyone feel free to add any comment.
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I concurred with Chef's comments above. Numismatic coins require indepth research on coins of respective countries, and normally the premium are higher in the country of the coin's origin. Meaning Malaysian coins have higher premium in Malaysia, and USA coins have higher premium in USA. Examples are Morgan Dollar or Peace Dollar coins fetch very high premium in USA, but not many takers willing to pay high premium in Malaysia. However Perth Mint numismatic coin is one exception with many keen followers in Malaysia, reason maybe due to herd mentality propagated by SLS online members.
taurusbull
post Feb 5 2012, 08:45 AM

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QUOTE(pubmut @ Feb 4 2012, 10:05 AM)
I find this to be misleading. You should qualify your statement in detail so as not to mislead the uninitiated.

Regards
PM
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You are right. Investment is about a portfolio of assets. Every year one asset class outperform others, and the following year the fortune may reverse. Attached is a summary of asset class return over a 15 years period in the US, and you will realise that Precious Metals only come up 2nd best return after Real Estate, even after the 2007/2008 real estate bubble crashed. Investment return of Precious Metals only give 'longkang' return prior to 2002.

We are now in the 10th year of Precious Metals bull run, of course there are quite a few price pullbacks during this period. Precious Metals becoming an important asset in your portfolio, maybe 10-20% ideally, as they are another 10 good years to run. It is fine if you started your investment in precious metals and have 90% of your asset in it, but remember to par down when opportunity comes for diversification in longer term basis.

Anytime is a good time to buy property, provided you get the right kind of property that generate revenue stream like rental. Everyone here seems to quote Robert Kiyosaki a lot, without realising that he had much more real estate asset than Precious Metals, should be more than 10 times at least.

Investment is about shifting your asset classes in a different ratio given the prevailing time and place, and is not that one asset is far more superior than the other.

Bullion coin is a great investment even with USD2 premium over low cost premium bar for most markets outside Malaysia. In Malaysia, bullion coin is a very poor investment as you have only two choices.
1) Pay 10% sales tax and 5% import tax, and that will bump up your premium over bar by USD2 + 15.5% tax. If Malaysia government introduce GST with 4% rate, they will abolish sales tax of 10%, and you will be down 6% automatically. When we buy precious metals, beside hoping for price appreciation, we are also preparing for worst scenario of hyperinflation. In that situation, 1oz of silver is worth 1oz of silver; regardles 1oz of bar, 1oz of bullion coin or 1oz of Numismatics coin.
2) Buy cheap bullion coin, guaranteed didn't pay government tax, meaning you are in possession of smuggled good. You may said, no worry, it is the seller's problem. Try to buy car that way. We are dealing with precious metals, a form of financial exchange medium, and I am sure we are not far away from authority's eyes. My advice is you maybe investing your life saving into Pecious Metals, put your money into every other Precious Metals except silver coins. Don't listen to those smugglers out to earn your money without caring for your financial safety.

By the way, you may opt to buy 1 or 2 pcs of each bullion coin to enjoy it for the beauty and as your collecton, buying beyond that is not a very good financial investment.

I hope I can save a few souls here from listening to some really poor advices posted here. I rest my case.


PS: Update on my experiences on importation:
Gold Coins and bars: No tax
Silver bar: no tax
Silver Round: 1st 5 times no tax, 6th. time levied 15.5% tax, 7th time no tax again.
Silver Coin: 15.5% tax

There is missing decimal in the table, the 15 years average annual return for Real Estate should be 13.04%.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Feb 5 2012, 09:16 AM


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Periodic_Table_of_Investment.pdf ( 234.03k ) Number of downloads: 44
taurusbull
post Feb 5 2012, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(pubmut @ Feb 5 2012, 09:40 AM)
Thanks to property101 and taurusbull for the clarifications. It does help the newbies and pros figure out what to do.

Cycles do exist for each asset class and we need to be good history/cycle students to understand these cycles and profit from it.

My exception to your statement, property101, was with your general assumption that properties will all rise in value over time. In the very long term (>15 years) it _may_ be correct, and I say "may" as it is also dependent upon type of property, location, infrastsructure, time of entry, loan rates and all associated factors.

I will emphasise the understanding of property cycles and time of entry as I, too, have experienced the negatives of all items mentioned above. Therefore, your general statement does not apply to me, despite the fact that currently we are in a property boom/bubble. I am only thankful that I have more than enough earning power to get through it.

Taurusbull, the historic cycles of asset classes need to go back further than 15 years in order to get a good feel of the trends, but I believe you know that.

Thank you again for your clarifications, as I do believe all will profit from it.

Regards
PM
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Agreed. Highly articulate.
taurusbull
post Feb 8 2012, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 7 2012, 09:18 AM)
The Five Myths Of Silver Investing
Ryan Jordan
Oftentimes perception, and not reality, rules the day with the thousands or millions of speculators placing short term bets with assets like silver. These perceptions are particularly strong given that paper players in the silver market often control the price in the short term (6-8 months), since there is so much more paper silver than physical metal out there. As I write this, we are seeing the unwinding of quite a bit of speculative, paper activity at the COMEX, with open interest numbers (meaning the number of players in the casino) lowering to levels just above where they were in the fall of 2008 (when silver was below 10 dollars). The price of silver has fallen, but as far as I'm concerned, there is no fundamental reason for silver to be so cheap. Instead silver fundamentals are badly overshadowed by misconceptions (or outright lies) about silver. Here are five common myths about silver that I bet many speculators still believe are true:


http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.11/myths.html
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Good article.
taurusbull
post Mar 9 2012, 04:10 AM

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QUOTE(pubmut @ Mar 8 2012, 09:39 PM)
The local authors are cashing in on the public domain information gleaned from other books.

Is there anything really new about this?
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You are right. Cut and paste author, with a bit of summary. Not worth the time and money, and oh yes the waste of tree.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Mar 9 2012, 04:11 AM

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