hi,

im noob and im playing as a tank.

normally in a game i will get the most die. its okay, as long as the team r winning i'll be happy. but i found it is quite frustating when im only able to kill <100 minions per game. is this bcoz i concentrate too much on defense item?

will this effect my IP and EXP? currently in lvl 10.

Initiate first and reposition back and going in again for stray kills

sure. i will be happy with gettin an assist

I got this from LOL NA forum. Yes its true, Riot can't balance game hahaha. About Irelia posted by Ralik098

Quite a few people keep saying this and it just isn't really true. So I decided to go back and do a summary of the game and focus on Irelia during the game. In this summary I will compare Irelia to Swain at 5 minute intervals to determine how she got back in the game.

I assume the game people are talking about was game one of the semi-finals between M5 and CLG since this was the only game with CLG where people could have possibly perceived Irelia to have made a comeback.

M5 VS CLG

Top lane
HotshotGG- Swain
Darien- Irelia

The game starts out with team farming peacefully.

Just before the 5 min mark, Saintvicious comes top and lane pulls off a successful gank on Irelia.

CS Count- Hotshot is up roughly 300 gold
Irelia- 20-0/1/0
Swain-24-1/0/0

The 2nd gank comes in at about the 7 min mark and is successful.

At 10 mins into the game-CS Count-Hotshot is up about 600 gold
Irelia- 53-0/2/0
Swain-57-2/0/0
Vayne-72 Doublelift has the highest cs at this point

Note that Darien has still managed to keep the cs about even with HotShot

At 10:40 Saint comes top again to gank, but this time Diamondez is there for the counter gank. The result is a 2-for-1 trade in favor of CLG.

CLG picks up the first dragon of the game just before the 15 min mark.

At 15 mins- Swain is probably up around 700-800 gold, quite a big lead
Irelia- 84-0/3/1
Swain-87-2/1/2 - 1 dragon
Ryze- 116- Alex Ich on Ryze is the highest cs in the game at this point

But, note that the CS in top lane is still about even

At this point, Genja really starts to take over bottom lane and punish double lift on vayne. This will have an effect on Irelia's comeback into the game later.

At 17:50, Hotshot wins an exchange with Irelia and forces her out of the lane, he take this opportunity to take down the first tower of the game in top lane. It is at this point that Irelia really begins her comeback into the game. It is also at roughly this point that Genja's lead in bottom lane has grown to 30 cs. CLG makes the decision to swap Hotshot and Doublelift.

However, Irelia has done a better job of last hitting that Swain and has worked up a bit of a lead and even gets several minuets of free farm after Hotshot takes the tower.

Just before the 20 min mark, Jiji ports top and saint comes in as well to gank Irelia. They are unsuccessful and she gets away just fine taking only slight damage.

At the 20 min mark- lane phase is still going- Swain up roughly 400 gold
Irelia- 138-0/3/1
Swain-111-2/1/2 - 1 Tower- 1 Drag
TF- 163-0/2/2 Jiji on Twisted Fate now has the CS lead

HotShot has fallen behind by nearly 30 cs, negating his early kill advantadge. His only lead is now coming from the one assist and the global gold that he is up.

At 21 mins into the game, CLG gives M5 a free dragon, this closes the gap even more. After coming down for dragon, Irelia returns top where doublelift has shoved the lane and proceeds to free farm for the next several minuets.

CLG leaves Irelia to free farm for so long that she shoves the lane and take a free top tower, this evens up the global gold between the two teams. At this point, HotShot returns top and quickly shoves the lane and leaves letting Irelia free farm some more.

CS Count 25 mins- Teams are still laning- Gold is probably about even
Irelia- 184-0/3/1 - 1 dragon - 1 tower
Swain-146-2/1/2 - 1 dragon - 1 tower
TF- 217 CS leader

So the comeback is now complete due to CLG letting up the pressure and allowing Irelia quite a bit of free farm. Also, Darien was able to keep up with Hotshot in cs even through all those ganks. Overall, very good job by Darien to stay close to Hotshot.

Also note that there has not been a team fight up to this point. So even though Irelia was behind early, CLG couldn't take advantadge of this. Mid has been roughly even but bot lane has been dominated by Urgot and he is now up 50 cs and a kill over Vayne.

Shortly after the 25 min mark, M5 takes the mid tower, they now have the lead in global gold and they are ahead in team gold.

M5 begins to force baron at about 26:20 and this catches CLG unprepared. The first team fight ensues and saint drop almost immediately after a good urgot swap into the entire team. M5 wins this fight 4-for-2 with Irelia picking up two of the kills. M5 outplayed CLG during this team fight and goes back to pick up baron afterwards.

Looking at the items in the inventories of Swain and Irelia for the first team fight, they have

Irelia- Phage, Sheen, Wit's End, Doran's Shield, Dagger, and Merc Treads =6,670g
Swain- Sorc Boots, Rod of Ages, Doran's Ring, and a Negatron Cloak =5,350g

So Irelia picks up two kills in this fight that CLG was outplayed in and she even had more gold's worth in items on her that her lane opponent did at the time.

I won't go over the rest of the game as it was just an easy win for M5 at that point and isn't relevant to what I wanted to discuss.

If you take a look at the endgame screen here (replay is here as well):

http://iemhanover.*******************...al-2-m5-vs-clg

You can see that Genja and Alex Ich carried this game on Urgot and Ryze. Diamondez did quite well also. Irelia finished third in gold behind Urgot and Ryze and finished with a score of 2/4/8. She did not dominate this game but she wasn't totally useless either and her only two kills came mid game in that first team fight. Darien also managed to finish with the 2nd highest cs total in the game even with the early setbacks.

In conclusion, yes she was set back a bit early on, but through great play by Darien, he was able to keep up in cs. CLG let up the pressure due to bot lane losing so hard and allowed him quite a long time of free farming and he got back in the game. There were no team fights to take advantage of the early lead that CLG had and by the time that they did team fight, Irelia was actually over 1,000 gold ahead of Swain in terms of items in their inventory at the time and M5 had a gold lead on CLG as a team.

It is really unfair for people to say things like you can gank her over and over and she is still good and point to this game as an example why. It simply isn't true because Darien played great and they let her back in and by the time they actually did team fight, he was ahead.

This post has been edited by archonixm: Mar 26 2012, 05:52 AM

^ Sounds like too much farming yo.

Hey again all,

Its nice to see good discussions about tanks. It's like creating an awareness programme for ppl that dont fancy tanks.

True to the fact that statikinetic mentioned true tanks are a thing of the past. A tank must still be a threat in the thick of it all. As righly put by statikinetic, Amumu and Ram excels at that. I would like to add that skillfull Naut and Singed can have the same devastating effect in a team fight.

Not so sure about Leona as I dont find her quite a threat after she engages and ultis enemy team.

One more thing. Dont get mixed up between tanks with bruisers or tanky dps. A tank should be able to have hard CC and the ability to effect the positioning of the enemy.

I think these days I enjoy tanking more often then playing an AD or AP carry. Right now Singed is doing great for me. I have not lost a single top tower as Singed and ppl just keep on raging that he's a cheap champ that just runs around.

This post has been edited by Hive: Mar 26 2012, 10:23 AM

Then ppl will QQ about this hard CC hahahah

then again the difference given are not that clear enuff. I mean LS ulti and Q and Udyr Bear Stance are an example of make-or-break the game CC or gap closer and yet not all play pure tanky char except Irelia ofcoz

I would think that Irelia becomes tanky because of her item build. He natural stats doesnt really give her that tankyness. In addition, she doesnt really have the capability to remove an enemy thats beating on your own carries.

Now if we follow that same argument, I suppose Voli actually fits that role as well, however, his early game is weak with his low hp and weak escape mechs. I think heal would be a good summoner spell for voli. In fact, next char im gonna try and master is voli.

Agreed on Irelia's tankiness coming from her item build. I remember the first time I played irelia and couldn't for the life of me figure out why people were calling her tanky when she isn't. Irelia is normally built tanky is because she doesn't lose her damage potential with a defensive build. Her True Damage and TriForce procs are sufficient to deal out....wait for it...TONNES OF DAMAGE! She's not a tank because of her inability to peel off enemies that dive onto your carries. That said, good luck trying to peel off Irelia with her passive and Merc Boots.

Lovely discussion on tanks going on here.

Leona, her kit needs a buff. There are several great threads on the NA forums on how she needs to maintain that threat level after she initiates. I loved the suggestion that successful Sunlight procs also reduce her CD. Makes for better synergy and keeps the threat there. One of the more fun tanks IMO and my fav. Voli is a bit different thank most tanks as he lacks hard CC. He is a bruiser/tank. His threat level comes from the damage output he brings and to achieve this he is rather item dependent. Without damage output, he faces the problem of 'Ignore Volibear'. His passive is great bait though. Pair it with Heal and troll away to tower.

Lee Sin and Udyr are more tanky DPS than tanks. I guess another part of what makes a tank is their initation skills. Leona's Zenith Blade, Amumu's Bandage Toss, Rammus' Powerball, Singe's chase and toss.


@moodswingfella,

Don't worry if you have bad KDA ratio as a tank, it doesn't affect your IP or EXP gain. I think.
As a tank, it's okay to die. In fact, you are expected to die first. Something is wrong if you're in a teamfight with full HP and everyone is ignoring you. Knowing your team position and when to initiate is perhaps one of the most important tank-playing skills you will require. Your initiation timing is everything.


Advice to the newer players :

"Don't chase Singed"

Voli - run Exhaust and Heal spell = ezpz chase and tower diving

This post has been edited by wairai: Mar 26 2012, 02:37 PM

Had a funny game last nite. Me top as Singed, Ryze Mid, Naut Jungle, Ashe and Voli Bot.

In team fights = Ashe Ulti...stuns 1-2 dudes...I fling to the back. Voli flings again. Naut pulls and Ryze stuns.

LOL.

Can work in so many combos. Anyone of us could pull. Any enemy out of position is a confirmed dead.

This post has been edited by Hive: Mar 27 2012, 11:28 AM

Speaking of Ryze, been playing him for about a week. Played him when I first started playing and was underwhelmed by him and his close to uesless ultimate. Never picked him again.

But now, oh my. Put him in the right hands with enough farm to cover the early game weakness....and later in the game he comes this walking blue god. What a difference some playing experience makes. Because of him I've started playing AP mid rather than solo tops.

Have got to agree with you on that. Building tanky items on him + a deathcap should be sufficient !

Come to think of it, Ryze bot might be good as well if ure gonna rush frozen heart. Nullifies the enemy AD carry

About AP mid Ryze, Cass (becoming popular now) and Brand can easily shut him down.

What are your other fav AP mids ? I use to remember a time when AD carry was mid.

Ryze scales off mana so he is one of the few AP heroes I don't go Deathcap. Early Tear is absolutely necessary, core items would be BV and Frozen Heart. Round it off with Void Staff and WotA (WOTA + the ultimate is OP!).

Agree that Cass and Brand shuts him down early game. But Ryze's early game is his weakest and it's best to be passive until you've farmed up your core items. Cass is seriously good, but has a high skillcap to play. Ahri too. If you want to play AP casters with high skillcaps that are borderline OP, Cass and Ahri says hi.

My other fav AP Mid is Kennen. Devastating in teamfights. And whoever he lanes against, he may not win but he definitely won't lose either. As for AD range mid, I think Caitlyn can be seen going mid in some games as her range allows her to farm and harass most AP casters.

thanks for the advise bro
btw, what do u mean by 'Don't chased Singed'?

Do not chase Singed when he fart the purple gas

I dont get it o.O ?

If you play with Singed then you will get what I mean

Purple Fart of Death!

oh ok

Because Singed kills heroes usual a poison trail behind him. It's an embarrassing way to die. Usual scenario :

1. Newbie sees Singed at half HP and chases him.
2. Singed runs off with his poison trail on.
3. After chasing awhile, newbie notices his HP has gone from full to less than half.
4. Newbie turns back. Singed activates MS boost and chases newbie.
5. Newbie gets tossed by Singed.
6. An ally has been slain.
7. Newbie's teammates starts to question newbie's sexual orientation and parents' marital status.