The A77 is more of a mirrorless version of DSLR right? or SLT.

They're not going for a direct replacement for A700? Fully concentrating on SLT?

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Added on August 24, 2011, 3:54 pmNEX-7 price is crazy...


This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 24 2011, 03:54 PM

Hm... I did not say he's debating, or saying which DSLR is better; In fact, in my previous posting, I said it depends on individual and if there is a good feature that others doesn't have, I would prefer to have it rather than pretend or protect the brand, which will just do worst than good.

The "Canon VS Nikon" is just a statement as usually these two brands are compared, but the statement actually refers to the menu system (also the design, egornomics, button layout, etc). As said, there is no which is better, it's more like suits who. A person who prefers Canon design, will argue Nikon's design not good, and vice versa. So, the same applies when you bring Sony into picture; which if you read, he mentioned something about beginner friendly for Sony, then CY replies the opposite, which then I further add on to CY's point.

Basically, like what CY mention and I also mentioned before previously, the Custom WB can be set without going through the menu.

On your second video, the green/magenta shift, I think we can't do that for Custom WB without going through the menu on the D7000, not sure about higher end models. But for preset WB, I think we can adjust with limited options on the D7000.

From your video:
I guess the main reason is because the top LCD in D7000 is small, compared with Sony, which implement on the BACK LCD instead; This give much more room and more intuitive UI (colour screen), also means more can be done.

Actually, for the D7000 and also other models, you can press the INFO button to access a set of available controls for quick access, which is using the BACK LCD.

Then again, I guess it's sort of different implementation? Usually people talking about quick controls is without having to access the BACK LCD; If we refer to the back LCD, I think many things can be done, such as what I mentioned for the "INFO" button to bring up Nikon's interactive UI? For higher end models, this UI provides more controls.

Nonetheless, I'd like to see Nikon implement adjusting the green/magenta shift onto the top LCD. Does higher end models have this (since D7000 top LCD is smaller)?

The Sony is not access from top LCD, it's from back LCD.

Not sure, the TOP LCD is different with the Back LCD, the TOP LCD have limitation due to the hardware. Not sure how to explain, they may still be able to implement it, but it is not as easy as doing it at the Back LCD, which can easily be done through firmware update.

In fact, actually, using the "INFO" button is roughly the same as Sony implementation, which is more interactive and controls can be easily access from there, this one they can easily done through firmware update.

I'm not sure the "shortcut" in the Back LCD after pressing INFO twice can be customize or not, they should allow it as the current "shortcut" may not suit everyone.
By pressing INFO button once, you can also access the WB directly by pressing the WB button. Perhaps they can add option like using the Back LCD Info instead of the Top LCD in the menu settings, or use BOTH. All this are easily done through firmware update. Just a matter of whether they want to do it or not.

Then again, for Nikon users, I'm not sure how many users here use the INFO button to alter settings from the back LCD? I still prefer the top LCD somehow for quick adjustment.

The TOP LCD hardware design have limitation; It's not the same as back LCD hardware, the top LCD is like our digital watch (e.g. G-Shock, there is predetermine location and what character or icon it can fit and it's sort of fixed. I didn't go into each details of the Top LCD, there may be a location suitable for it, if yes, then it should be able to do through some button combination or some sort;

But still having that said, the top LCD cannot be compared with back LCD, which is more interactive...
With the back LCD, you can use the directional buttons and so on, you can use the "?" to get help, and so much more. So, I don't think it's fair to compare between back LCD with front LCD;
If using back LCD, we can get through by the "INFO" button (provided it have WB shortcut), Or adding items to "My Menu" as shortcut.

Anyway, as I remember now, what Nikon lacks off previously compared to Canon was the User Settings (e.g. U1, U2), which is now implemented on D7000.

Actually that's because of the lack of top LCD; Everything needs to be implemented and presented in the back LCD, just like Nikon entry levels; Having that said, higher end model users prefers the Top LCD and less meddling with the back LCD.

Nonetheless, as I mentioned in one of the post previously, it'll be nice to have options in the settings where, user can choose to display the settings in back LCD, then from there, more things can be done as the UI can be more interactive.

When you use focus re-compose, with big apertures, and close-up shot, the DOF will be thin and you will have more chance of shifting the focal plane.

If you're not shooting close up, the chances are lower but depends on how you focus and re-compose; Did you move front or back slightly? The distance should be about the same; You can try re-compose slowly if it's not a rush; But if you're in a event when things happen fast, focus and re-compose with big aperture is quite risky, especially if the person is moving.

By the way, sometimes I notice the focus did not lock on correctly, but the focus indicator shows it's lock, thus when you shoot, it can be slightly front or back focus. Happens more frequent when what you're trying to focus is not enough contrast it seems.

U1 and U2 are Custom User Settings, which Canon have it for long time.

This one will store your shooting settings, e.g. which mode you choose (PSAM?), picture control, and several other settings.
So, just dial in U1 or U2 for your custom settings, instead of the usual PSAM.

As my previous explanation, there're chances that the focus lock on incorrectly. The problem is, it's hard to determine from the viewfinder.

Yea, but they were in the menu and it was not very well implemented. With the dedicated U1 and U2, it's better implemented and settings better preserved. We might see this button implemented in higher end models later?

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Added on August 25, 2011, 9:36 amI think the discussion is good, it makes different brand users understand each brand better, the limitation, usage, etc. Plus, it let's users explore into the features and play around, and for readers to learn as well; Plus, videos also produced with step by step! That's awesome.
I don't see it as something bad, I see it more of healthy discussion and information/opinion sharing; See it positively, if we see it negatively, it will end up people don't want to discuss and talk about it, thus there'll be no such information sharing. When people are young (e.g. kids), they tend to discuss freely and less problems, when people grow older (e.g. adults), more mixed feelings comes in, and people tend to not share and be afraid to voice their opinion or ask question, mainly due to how the will be treated or regarded or being mis-understood.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 25 2011, 09:37 AM

Why not? I think most D7000 are using U1 or U2 settings?
I don't use PSAM modes anymore, or maybe hardly.
You can dial in either P or S or A or M, then adjust whatever settings you want, then save it in U1 or U2; When you dial in U1 or U2 next time, it will be the settings you have configured.
So, it's like a CUSTOMIZED "P" or "S" or "A" or "M" modes.

MINOR Example of what else you can do:
Some people set U1 with Focus Indicator Beam ON, and U2 with Focus Indicator Beam OFF;

There can be many more adjustments, above just a very minor difference. Previously there was a thread sharing U1 and U2 settings in photomalaysia.com I think, and if you google you might find discussion about it.

Point is, it's something "nice to have", and will probably be implemented in high end models later.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 25 2011, 09:45 AM

use smaller aperture if you want MORE depth of field and don't shoot too close. If you're shooting indoor or tight space, you might get close, which will cause more shallow depth of field.

Your kit lens @ 50mm, the aperture is f/5.6
If you're using your 50mm f/1.8G, in aperture priority mode, you might have set it to f/1.8? OR if using auto, when camera detect low light, it might use wider aperture.

Try set the aperture to f/3.5 ~ f/5.6 in Aperture Priority mode ("A")?

NOTE:
Smaller f number = bigger aperture
Bigger f number = smaller aperture


I think he meant he want to get more DOF, and less bokeh (even tough he love bokeh).

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 25 2011, 10:05 AM

I think it depends on individual, and maybe need to really use it to know. Switching the dial is faster and easier than going through the back LCD; I seldom use the back LCD unless to view photo or do some adjustment; most of the time, I use the top LCD and quick access. So, having the U1 and U2 is a nice feature.

As for the back LCD via "INFO" button, that should be easily implemented, just whether the maker (this case, Nikon), wants to provide it for lower end bodies; I guess they tried to limit and differentiate category bodies, which is not so nice for consumer who understand softwares, which means, it is not it cannot have, but the manufacturer choose not to give.

The top LC needs to be able to show the information for the additional changes (e.g. green/magenta shift); The TOP LCD is those old technology which has limitation of what it can only show (like a digital watch).
As current D7000 smaller TOP LCD, when you tune to Custom WB, the top "numbering" part is taken over by temperature values. I'm not sure if there is other area which they can show the green/magenta shift.

Even with preset WB, the green/magenta shift is not shown in proper values like the Sony? It's more of a fix value for your to choose.
The Sony that shown in the video, is using the back LCD, which is totally different with top LCD.
With the back LCD, we can even use the navigational button.
Thus, I think it's not fair to compare the TOP LCD functionality vs the BACK LCD; The reason Top LCD exist is for quick access without having to go through the back LCD?

For Nikon, maybe they can add options in settings like when user press the "WB", it triggers the back LCD for adjustment e.g. directly to the WB menu), just like Sony, then you get to adjust everything easily.
Another way, they can allow user to customize the "shortcut" in menu when user press the "INFO" button. As of now, the 'shortcut' menu for D7000, most of the shortcut may not be use (depends on individual). Is there a way to customize this? What about higher end models?

What I mean is, the location to display the green/magenta shift. Not sure about D700; On D7000, when you tune in Custom WB (Temperature), the b1 to b6 / a1 to a6 location is taken over the temperature values.
Not sure if there is other place which can display the "b1 to b6 / a1 to a6"? The TOP LCD (or display) is not same like back LCD, which is a real LCD.
So, we need a place to show the "b1 to b6 / a1 to a6" on the top display for Custom WB; If there is no place to show this, then it is limited by hardware.

Not sure, Canon 5D MkII have the C1, C2 dials? It means, it's a nice to have, but may not suit everyone.

Um... just a statement comparing with what lwliam showed in his A700 video; I'm trying to explain the limitation on the TOP DISPLAY, which cannot do something interactive like the back LCD, which is a real LCD, and it can be very interactive UI. Thus, comparing the top display with the back LCD is not really fair;

We can compare the Nikon's back LCD configuration for proper comparison, the different is probably there is no quick access like "1" button access to it, but actually do-able if ikon provide the options in the settings for user to configure.

For now, options available for quick access?
1. Add WB item to MyMenu for shortcut access.

Currently, the Information Display via "INFO" button, the shortcuts there seems is fixed? If Nikon allows user to customize it, then it'll be great. I know for higher end models, there is more shortcuts available? Is it possible to customize these shortcuts?

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 25 2011, 12:56 PM

The A-77 is now a DSLT, the performance is amazing.... 12FPS @ full resolution, crazy machine gun... claimed the only camera can do this at the moment. Saw a demo video, the video is using the frames captured... those moving objects like horse running.... seems like all is in focus when shooting continuous @ 12FPS....
Saw the promo video as well, super cool

Basically, U1 and U2 are your customized modes from other modes. Not sure how to explain, in default PSAM modes, many settings are actually shared in difference modes.
But for User mode, define your settings, and these settings doesn't affect the normal modes. If you made adjustment to other modes, SAVE or NOT SAVE, the settings doesn't affect your User mode.

I think it was not a dedicated thread, it was discussed in D7000 thread in PM:
http://www.photomalaysia.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1835716
P/S: Some of the members there were actually members here.

Anyway, to find out more of what other people customized, you can google it and maybe you might be interested in their setttings.


YES, I said that, and also for PRESET white balance (e.g. tungsten, cloudy, etc)

What I'm saying is for Custom WB, where you adjust the temperature; If you notice the TOP display, the temperature is shown on same location as "A6 - A1 and B1 - B6". So, in order to have this adjustment for Custom WB, the TOP display must have location for it. If it has, it means, it can be implemented through firmware update. If not, it will be hardware limitation, even if there's control for it, but there's no way to show the information on the TOP display, especially the D7000 which has smaller TOP display, thus we need to have things like "Easy ISO" and those things.

As for the Sony, there's no TOP display, therefore, it's using back LCD; To properly compare this, we should also compare with Nikon back LCD, it's just that Nikon models with TOP display doesn't activate the back LCD when you change settings. With the back LCD, it's more interactive as it's a totally different thing from the top display.

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Added on August 26, 2011, 11:05 amDo you know what is the kit lens for A77?

16-50mm f/2.8!!! Constant aperture!!!

Time to wake up Canon and Nikon!
Did you read recent update in Nikon rumor on Nikon response to mirrorless? I don't know, I find the response "arrogant" instead of trying to make a difference.

Hopefully we will see something good after this.


This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 26 2011, 11:07 AM

Body only: USD1399
Body + Kit: USD1999

The 16-50mm f/2.8 is around USD600; which is around RM2K.

Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 with OS will cost over RM2.4K (for official set)?

If any case, hope to see Nikon & Canon will counter this, which will benefit the DX users.

Yes, SLT gives advantage for fast auto-focus and continuous auto-focus; I saw the video merged using burst rate, the horse running, etc. everything seems to be in focus. Even previous DigitalRev preview on the older SLT model, the auto-focus and continuous auto-focus is the key advantage.

I watch one video, the guy tested the OLED viewfinder and claim it's response/refresh it as good as optical viewfinder, he claimed, some people might not be able to tell the difference; Not sure, maybe for normal consumer? Or it's that good? We'll have to test and see it ourself.

Then again, SLT and SLR are quite different is certain way, as someone pointed out, there're different type of users with different preference, also they're those that like both or can go with either.

If you're trying to merge them as HDR, then recommended to use tripod and remote trigger or timer, and you would want to shoot landscape or static object only.
Actually, the camera can do HDR processing but not like D5100 as a dedicated function. There is one feature in the camera (sort of hidden), which is called "multiple exposure" I think. It's like AEB, but after you take the X number of shots specified, it will merged for you, just like HDR.


12FPS @ Full Resolution; Claimed by the Sony people, WORLD FIRST camera to be able to do that at FULL RESOLUTION.