New Toyota Camry 2012, is Really coming now!
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 Jun 13 2012, 02:26 AM
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#41
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I have had ABS kick in several times, although mostly in slippery conditions (like snow and ice). Admittedly that's not so often the case in Malaysia. Yet.
 Anyway dares is right, of course you won't need it all the time, unless you are driving a car with way too much hp. But it CAN happen. And it's better to be prepared. It's not a nice feeling to have lost control over your car. I once did, when it would simply slid into the car in front, and there was absolutely nothing that I could do to prevent it. |
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Jun 13 2012, 08:49 PM
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#42
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QUOTE(sleepy @ Jun 13 2012, 08:04 AM) So whatever technology they put in the brochure of your car, they can only safe you to a certain extent. Most fatal accidents happens at speeds that even airbag wont be enough to safe you. I know NCAP and stuff are always featured in brochures, but then those are simulated under controlled environment. In real world, crashes probably happen at speeds way above those test speeds and the outcome would've been very different I tend to disagree. The death rate is as high on German roads as it is in the neighboring countries (that drive the same cars). However Germans are driving at higher speeds.So drive safe people   Malaysians drive at slower speeds, yet the death rate is much, much, much higher. I think around 5 times as high? It's somewhere on Wikipedia. The vehicle you drive makes a difference, and fatal accidents seem to happen at sane speeds too, where a proper car would have protected everyone in the car. ABS helps you achieve the best possible braking performance, if you are braking too hard. But other than that, no, shouldn't kick in from what I know. Brake assistants etc. yes, they kick in more frequently and help you. But ABS not so much. Just for not sliding and not blocking up the tyres (losing braking performance?). @cybermaster: I had ABS kick in when braking gently. It always depends on how much grip the car has. On ice it kicks in pretty often. (Of course that won't happen often here). In terms of FC I achieved around 7-8L/100 km (more towards 7) driving 160-180. Ford Galaxy 1.6 TDCI (big MPV, I guess around Estima size?). 3 passengers and around 110 kg or so of luggage. Diesels are awesome. IIRC the ANCAP should follow EuroNCAP quite closely? ASEAN NCAP should be similar too... when they finally publish test results. Also keep in mind the US Camry is much better equipped. If we actually get a real 4 star car in Malaysia that is already good, at least almost all of the Japanese cars are downgraded to be less safe. Europeans tend to be fully spec'ed (not all though). Koreans so-so, some are, some aren't. IIRC Kia has got themselves the VW head designer  The one who oversaw all VW brands.Of course we have lots of surprises in Malaysia. I usually drive more alert here than in Germany, despite lower speeds. There is always someone not looking into his rear mirror when he pulls out to overtake! And for lower temperatures they have winter tyres They lose grip at higher temperatures, but at low temperatures they perform well. On the other hand we have rain here that by far exceeds what they have, and rain can make roads very slippery too.And btw., I made my driving license in Germany. The closest thing to handling in emergency situations that I had to do was braking as hard as possible (and that was only because the driving teacher wasn't also the owner of the car, if I had been driving with the boss he wouldn't have done it). Yes, the training is good, much better than what I heard we have in Malaysia, but understeer and oversteer is not a part of the curriculum (in theory perhaps, not sure). Of course there are driving courses for those sort of situations, but they are not mandatory. and cost a bit. Many don't take them (I meant to, but somehow I never got around to it). What is emphasized is to constantly observe the traffic. Always know what is going on around you. If you don't do that during the test, you will fail (and that's not cheap). If you want to test ESP, don't do it with ANYTHING in the way. Find an empty car park for example. |
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Jun 14 2012, 01:06 AM
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#43
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Of course a 5 star A segment car will not perform as good when crashing into a 5 star D segment car. However when you watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY it gets clear that a good rating is helpful nevertheless.
The safer the car, the better your chance of survival/being unharmed. So you'll try to get the best car within the desired price range and size range, and for that the star system helps a lot. |
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Jun 14 2012, 10:57 PM
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#44
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 14 2012, 02:06 AM) Ure wrong. The Autobahn does have speed limits. There are only certain stretches of road which have no speed limits. Many of the areas especially when approaching towns have got limits. I know cuz i spent 5 days driving from Frankfurt to Munich recently. Actually AFAIK EuroNCAP goes out and buys their cars themselves from any dealer in Europe. So the manufacturers have no clue which car is going to be crashed, and thus can't prepare.Added on June 14, 2012, 2:10 am Bro, do u actually think the evaluators at NHTSA and NCAP Europe are fools? DO u really think they wouldnt know if a car manufacturer has actually beefed up their cars before testing? Do u know that many of these cars have the inner mouldings taken out and refitted in the test centres under the watchful eyes of the testers before the evaluation is carried out? These cars have to be sent to the centre about 2 weeks before the actual tests are done. And no reputable car manufacturer is gonna risk trying to cheat and get blacklisted by these powerful agencies. So no i doubt any of them would actually beef up their cars before testing. Added on June 14, 2012, 2:22 am Bro, do u even understand the meaning of the crash tests? Im sure many ppl would know that crashing a smaller car against a bigger vehicle surely isnt how crash test ratings should be looked at. Its common sense knowledge of momentum taking mass into the equation. Hopefully, this article clears some of your doubt regarding crash tests. http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/what-cra...cores-mean.html About 50% of the highway has no speed limit, the rest has, including normal roads. Although I took them as a rough guideline only.  I really really really hope they don't add more speed limits. It's not for safety reasons (I think it's at least just as dangerous in countries with speed limit, as people will then drive accordingly and the road will be a chaotic mess), just for environmental reasons. But new cars perform rather well, even at high speeds, with low FC.The Volvo 940 got 0 stars la, that was before EuroNCAP. I do think a 4 star SUV will perform better than a 5 star A segment car. But 2 or 3 vs 5 stars... might have to consider. Hard to tell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKSPxQjPOm0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHiYSAenanM&feature=relmfu (this doesn't look good for the Vios driver...) Haiya, how can they advertise with 5 star rating? These cars in Malaysia are probably downgraded badly. Happy if they can get 3 or 4 stars. Oh, and I don't think they change EuroNCAP every year. Every few years, they mention it somewhere. This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jun 14 2012, 11:04 PM |
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Jun 16 2012, 02:56 AM
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#45
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QUOTE(pds_disi @ Jun 14 2012, 11:03 PM) your question only about crash, nothing about car type, usage, price or whatever. so the choice is clear. the safer car get my vote. safety is rated base on result of crash ^damage on occupant, nothing to do with car type. what makes you think tat different car type with lower rating can survive crash batter then another car type with higher rating? magic? if your question on crash but actually mean something else, well, i am allergic to illogic Actually the ratings are only comparable within the same type/class of car, the test simulates an offset crash between 2 cars of the same type.  , maybe i didn't answered your actual question.Well, I save a lot of money in the first place by not buying a Camry, if I put that on a bank account and withdraw when I sell the car, I have more in the end. Anyway, if I don't care about the car, then... why not buy something cheap and simple? Old Saga. Great resale value. You buy one for 5k, in 5 years you'll sell it for 3 or 4k. Reliable, cause old tech. Great availability of spare parts. But IF I spend 180k it better be worth it. I don't have any money to throw away. Funny. We bought the Kangoo for entirely practical reasons (father needs a wheel chair, we want a safe car within the budget, ...), but I really quite like it and am happy with the choice. Love on first sight is not necessary. Like you slowly start to appreciate someone, then only fall in love. I can always install a DVD player into a car. Even into a Kancil. Features that I can't get otherwise are more interesting. Air/hydropneumatic suspension. Many airbags and a well thought out design in terms of safety. ESP, TC. Night vision. Radar guided cruise control and emergency stop feature. Lane departure warning. Voice control. Modern gearbox (or better yet manual). Bodykits, nice rims and a DVD player can always come later. |
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Jun 16 2012, 09:32 PM
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#46
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QUOTE(sonyman @ Jun 16 2012, 07:52 PM) So you genting one? I m sure the camry is impressive, at that price i believe nothing comes close to its comfort Of course there are cars that can compete. For 190k you can get a Citroen C5. Same sort of suspension Rolls Royce used in some of their cars (until BMW took over... of course then they couldn't buy their suspension from Citroen anymore). If that's not comfortable then I don't know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn7G8KiYV-4 Also since it is an active suspension it will still corner well, the suspension adapts to the road conditions and can also be raised or lowered. You can also set if you want a soft or a firmer suspension. To get something similar you will have to buy a Merc S class or Audi A8. And tick a very expensive option.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcXshzPlWHk&feature=related For more infos, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2q03XZugwg&feature=related for even more. If you want comfort there is no competition. Except for the C6, which is the same thing in form of a big presidents limousine. Oh yes, and it is safe too and has good NVH. |
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Jun 16 2012, 10:29 PM
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#47
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No, the difference in comfort is rather big. At least comparing XM with old Camry. Also the seats in the XM were amazing. Our leather sofa can't compete. I expect new Citroens to be the same, some of the best seats I have sat on are the ones in our Xsara. Very comfortable, also suitable for long distance journeys.
The spheres aren't that difficult, but you do need someone who is familiar with this stuff. They can also be refurbished as far as I know. Anyway, when you can spend 180k on a car you shouldn't be so poor that FC is a big issue, or the price of spare parts. If it is, you are buying above what you can afford. The Passat and funky? http://www.passat.co.uk/wp-content/uploads...ssat-2011-1.jpg Not really, no. I'd argue it looks even more uncle than the Camry. The C5 is also a rather elegant car, nothing flashy. http://photos.autoexpress.co.uk/images/fro...to_244017_7.jpg I think it is gorgeous (the interior a bit boring and outdated, but still ok). |
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Jun 17 2012, 11:50 AM
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#48
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Not having many problems with our Citroen, only wear and tear. But yes, driving a Citroen in Malaysia is a bit risky.
The way I see it: Why pay 150k for a Camry, when I can get better cars for less? Much less. If FC etc. is a concern, then just get a cheaper car, that will offset the higher FC. I don't feel any pain at the petrol station or when it comes to getting spare parts (though of course I don't want to spend too much), also because I don't have to spend all my money on an expensive loan. How much defensive driving helps you has been shown twice in Singapore recently. Someone smashes in your side, and you die. No matter how defensive you drive. With a car that properly protects you you may have survived. In any case, the last new car we bought was 20 years ago, and that was also the last time we had a lot of hassles with a car (it was fine after it reached the age of 2). Been driving second hand cars ever since, and been happy with them, while spending much less than they would have cost new. |
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Jun 17 2012, 09:54 PM
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#49
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 17 2012, 05:32 PM) Our petrol is so cheap? What are u comparing against? Our fuel is AMONG THE MOST EXPENSIVE IN THE WORLD if u compare dollar to dollar. We export our good quality fuel while we use the crap quality locally polluting our environment and endangering our lives more. They don't earn that much In Germany for instance, i was shocked to see diesel costing about E$1.40 while petrol (Euro 5) costs about E$1.60. If ure living there and earning in euros, thats quite cheap. An engineer earning 3000 Euro will, after taxes, health insurance etc. have 1500-2000. Then they need to pay for rent... usually around 500 or more, food is MUCH more expensive (unless you cook yourself, but if you are working you may not have the time for that), but then comes insurance, telephone/internet, phone... in the end there's not much left.Can you imagine Malaysians driving with total strangers so that they can share the fuel? I can't. Yet that's quite common in Germany, since fuel is that expensive. I have done it frequently too, driving others as well as a passenger. Of course cars here are way too expensive. There's no doubt about that, and even if they aren't really overpriced (Fiesta sedan for example is similarly priced as in Germany) it does seem like the government is artificially keeping the price up. I imagine the government is saying Fiesta won't get AP unless it is priced at 70-80k, while elsewhere it starts at 40k or so. Of course with a smaller engine and rather empty, but at least the option exists. Malaysians are able to afford expensive cars due to the very long loans they can get. I can't imagine a bank offering a 9 year loan in Germany for a car. I think 3 years is pretty much the maximum, perhaps here and there 5 years, but that's it (and that won't be cheap then). The Ferrari driver was drunk and way too fast, of course nothing could save him. I don't think he even braked. Of course VSC etc. won't help if he didn't even get to brake (although some cars might have automatically slowed him down once they noticed there was going to be a crash). |
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Jun 18 2012, 10:13 PM
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#50
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QUOTE(Flyguy1970 @ Jun 17 2012, 11:49 PM) Compare to Toyota Altis 1.8G spec, I think the "ALL NEW 2012" Toyota Camry 2.0G spec is way too LOW spec, OUTDATED engine and UNSAFE on less-ideal road!! Well, please see the below comparisons for the spec [pls note that despite these 2 cars is on different segment, but I'm pointing the comparison on the spec, rather on segment of the car]: Interesting. But in terms of comfort the Camry will be probably better.Toyota Altis 1.8G spec     VS    Toyota Camry 2.0G spec 1) Dual VVT-i with ACIS   VS   DOHC with VVT-i  (New engine)          VS   (Old & Outdated engine)  (More power & torque)   VS   (Less power & torque)  (Consume less fuel)     VS   (Consume more fuel) 2) Super CVT-i with 7-Speed  VS  Super ECT with 4-speed   (better fuel efficiency)     VS  (less fuel efficiency)   (Advance gear box)      VS  (Old gear box) 3) Safety on less-ideal conditions (such as on rainy day, slippery road & uneven surface road)   - with VSC & TRC     VS   - without VSC & TRC   (MORE SAFE!)        VS   (UNSAFE!)Hope God will bless you then!                                   MY PERSONAL CONCLUSION: Driving a Toyota Altis 1.8G is seems to be MORE SAFE on the road than driving a New Toyota Camry 2.0G!! Yet, you need fork-out additional RM35,000 for a LOW spec, OUTDATED engine and UNSAFE "ALL NEW 2012" Toyota Camry 2.0G!! UMW TOYOTA is very "BRILLIANT" on "hiding" the above spec comparison when come to promoting this New Camry! You don't see info of VSC & TRC in 2.5V (indeed 2.5V equipped with VSC & TRC, but not for 2.0G or 2.0E). No "comparison" info means less awareness to the potential buyer, especially those Uncles!! Despite Camry is much better on exterior looks, but the spec of Camry 2.0G shall deserve more or less the same as Altis 1.8G since both cars is same G spec, especially the extra SAFETY feature, such as VSC & TRC that equipped in Altis 1.8G! This VSC & TRC extra safety feature might able to save you and your passengers when you are driving on less-Ideal road conditions and on emergency situations, such as on rainy day, slippery road & uneven surface road. Is UMW TOYOTA trying to IGNORE extra safety of the driver and the passengers of new Camry 2.0G !? while put EXTRA ATTENTION of extra VSC & TRC safety on the driver and the passenger of Altis 1.8G instead!? The price of VSC & TRC is just mere few thousand Ringgit only! Of course, the rationale behind by not equip VSC & TRC on Camry 2.0G is make EXTRA profit on D-Segment car for UMW TOYOTA lah!! more UNTUNG lah!! Well, I'm also a Toyota car owner at the moment. But to upgrade to this New Camry, I would put on hold until UMW TOYOTA upgrade the spec of this Camry or look for some other cars. Simply Not worth buying this New Camry at these kind of LOW spec and OVER-PROFIT by UMW TOYOTA! In fact, couples of days ago, one Toyota salesman told me that there was quite number of cancellation of booking order for this Camry 2.0G or 2.0E. Simply b'cos the potential buyer disappointed with this LOW spec Camry. To buy 2.5V with HIGHER spec is overpriced at RM181K! Today I drove a Cross Touran all day, quite nice. Love the 7 speed DSG, very smooth, fast, paddle shift is nice, gear changes are frequent, but you won't notice them. Revs never go high unless you kick down or downshift manually. So much better than a 4 speed. Oh yeah, and I did manage to get the TC to cut in, and the car wasn't even standing when I kicked down (+ the car drives on pretty fat tyres, so there is quite a bit of power there). Btw., compared to the TDI there's even more low end torque (or at least it feels that way, car can easily be driven below 1500 rpm. The 1.6 TDI Touran (115 hp) needed more rpm, and the turbo kicked in harder.) As to why that is relevant here (hopefully): The Passat is probably all of that, just in a more comfortable package. Now I feel even worse having to drive a 4 speed @stix: A Myvi will cost you around 10k Euro IIRC (last time I checked), though the official price is higher. The entry level one should have 6 airbags IIRC and is made in Japan. So the price is more or less similar, but the car is spec'ed better. However a Fiesta sedan (as it has 7 airbags) is equipped rather decent here, if you try to spec a Fiesta (hatch) the same way (not entirely possible, there is no DSG for example) you'll arrive at a rather similar price, despite the higher taxes here. However you do usually get around 15% or so discount with some bargaining at the dealer, so it will be cheaper (colder cars will get more discount, hot ones less). I wholeheartedly agree, you should be able to pay off a car in 3-5 years (I prefer paying it immediately, which is possible to us with second hand ones). Btw. I just noticed, the front of the Camry bodykit looks a bit like the sport one of the F30 BMW 3 series, just oversized and stretched. RM12 in the Philippines? What are they putting into their cars? Printer ink? Geez, that's expensive compared to Europe! (Germany < RM 7 for 95). Yes, 5000 Euro (if it is after all the taxes etc. are deducted) makes for a rather comfortable living. I lived on around 400 Euro a month, including rent for the dorm and food etc. (no car though). It was a pretty cheap town though, in other places such a tiny room would have cost 500 Euro or more. Fuel quality... no clue. I know that my fuel consumption here is much higher than with a similar engine in Europe, driving style being rather similar. But the car here has a 4 speed auto instead of a 5 speed manual, and I rarely use the aircon in Europe. If you want a Passat with more space, get the Skoda Superb. It's more refined, using the same tech as found in Passats etc., and it is bigger. I'd say the Passat is an A4, 3 series and C class converter in a bit less premium, while the Superb is the same, but against A6, 5 series and E class. For 200k that is very good value for money. It also looks rather executive like to me. Hill assist is not necessary on the Camry, since it has a torque converter. Cars with DSG tend to roll back because they use a clutch that wears out. This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jun 18 2012, 10:23 PM |
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Jun 18 2012, 10:49 PM
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#51
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Btw. cybermaster, what car did you get in Germany in the end? How was it?
Oh, nice. Diesel 508s... I think the Peugeot/Citroen diesel are considered to be rather decent. And then even the station wagon. How nice is that? A bit expensive though, for a 508. Not really worth it, isn't it? "Peugeot Smart Beam Assistance, which comprises of a camera that analyses light conditions on the road and adjusts the headlamp beams accordingly" Nice. Camry... premium? And what is missing on the 508 standard? |
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Jun 18 2012, 11:27 PM
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#52
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You could (almost) just as well pay off a Passat. Resale value... maybe not 100% as good as the Camry, but I thought VW is picking up steam. I see more and more Tourans on the road, lots of Polo, Jetta and a few Passat. I think for a Conti it is doing quite well.
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Jun 19 2012, 12:19 AM
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#53
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Hm. After having had fewer problems with second hand cars than with new ones (Suzuki Alto (in the 80s) was a catastrophe, problems without end, Renault 19 had some serious issues when new, after it was 2 years old everything was fine until we sold it when it was 12, and it could probably have gone on for many more years) I'm more open to second hand ones (preferably very young second hand ones, i.e. 1-2 year old).
Not sure if I'd give up all the advantages of a Passat just to save a few bucks (better car, better safety, service only every 15k km, longer warranty). Would you rather pay 200k to get a nice house in a nice area with guards and all or pay 180k to get a tiny condo in a dangerous neighborhood? You'd save 20k, but give up so much that it may not be worth it. |
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Jun 21 2012, 10:27 PM
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#54
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QUOTE(zweimmk @ Jun 21 2012, 05:53 PM) You may be right. But looking at the Camry, I already feel ripped off. If I buy that, I may end up hating the car itself. And even worse, UMW Toyota is just going to continue offering lame specs at ridiculous prices because the demand is still there. Well, you want the high tech, but you don't want anything high tech cause that can fail. Uhm... Damned if I do, and damned if I don't  It also explains the popularity of the Camry. People think... good, nothing modern was used in the car, so it will be reliable. I must say I quite like the DSG in the Touran. Makes the most out of the engine, smooth, fast, ... Oh yeah, the warranty is good. At least the SC I went to seems friendly and professional (and very bored. Brought the car there, and few minutes later half the SC was standing there looking at the car, what is wrong with it etc. ;D ). If Camry, get an older one. Last gen for example. Same car as the new one, but lower price. Otherwise: If you want a Passat, you might as well go for a 2006 or 2007 Skoda Superb. It's a Passat from that era, but with a longer wheel base. Good car without the fancy gearbox. Price is very low, so easy to stomach. Can buy a new car later. Or the new Superb, if a Passat just doesn't have enough class and space and you want to enter the executive saloon segment/feel like a boss. It's a bit more though. This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jun 21 2012, 10:28 PM |
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Jun 23 2012, 02:22 AM
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#55
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QUOTE(IluvProton @ Jun 22 2012, 09:50 AM)  i also buy car and sell around 2-3 years. if car i like then i keep. dun like then i sell. 12 years i working been change 7 car liao my marney gone but I r happy cause I like to drove new car By not caring about the resale value I can get a car that I will like in the first place. Granted I have to drive it longer, but since I like it I do not mind. Also if you are rich enough to throw away 60k or so within 3 years, then why not top up a bit and get something really good? That you won't want to sell? Example: You can go for a Galaxy S3 or something like that, and keep it for 3 years. Or you can buy a cheapo Android every year. Galaxy Mini or so. You will have a great phone, for all the 3 years, even when it is old the screen is great and the performance should be ok, or you will have a new but slow device all the time, with a bad screen etc. Even in 3 years the latest cheap Android will be rubbish. But you will have spent the same amount as the one who got the right device in the first place. What is the point of new if new is crap? I'd rather have something that is old and good. Renault is also sharing engines with Proton, if you drive a Kangoo it should be possible to drop in either the Savvy engine or the Waja 1.8X engine (which makes it go fast Handling wise it can easily do 170+, just the darn engine can't do it).If your car is in good condition, what's the point in selling it? Unless the car you want is a big improvement. For a Passat or Mondeo, yes, I can see that. Camry... not so much. |
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Jun 23 2012, 03:02 PM
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#56
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I find it hard to believe too. 6,3l/100 km is possible for D segment cars (usually diesel though), but you'd need a gearbox that makes sure you can travel at low rpm. With a 4 speed that is kind of hard (but not impossible, I guess).
In any case I used to do around 7-8l/100 km in the C segment Xsara, driving around 130-140. Bigger car, but driven slower... yeah, might be possible. |
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Jun 23 2012, 03:23 PM
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#57
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Those Koreans, can't count...
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Jun 27 2012, 06:03 PM
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#58
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 27 2012, 08:42 AM) Yes a figure of 8.xkm/L seems quite logical for a 2.4L car in 100% city driving. I dont really see how you can get better than that. The advantage of the extra gear on the 6 speed auto wont really matter since you wouldnt get into 6th gear that often in normal city driving conditions. Sure? Usually the 5th or 6th gear is meant for 50 km/h if it is a 5 or 6 speed. Even with a Porsche you should be able to drive in the highest gear at 50. So far I haven't experienced a car that can't do it (usually around 1200-1400 rpm?). Uphill it may be different, then you need to downshift, but otherwise...Or maybe the Toyota torque converters are different, I didn't drive many auto cars, mostly manual. Disengaging ESP in snow? Especially in snow it is very useful... you don't want the rear to get lose etc. (normally). Spirited drivers may want to turn it off on a race track, because it's just more fun without (if you can actually control drifts). @kepalapening: Uhm... and when would that be? Also unless you are a race driver I don't think you have the skills to control a car that way. Anyway, the car will try its best to go exactly the direction you are steering it towards. This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jun 27 2012, 06:06 PM |
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Jun 27 2012, 08:07 PM
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#59
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QUOTE(kcng @ Jun 27 2012, 06:20 PM) of all the references... wikipedia But it is true. TC makes your car go forward without smoking tyres... useful with snow, ice and ps monsters. otherwise not really important. Only helps you not look like a fool over here. ESP is what helps you avoid crashing by stopping under and oversteer. |
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Jun 28 2012, 03:32 AM
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#60
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QUOTE(Oldskolboyz @ Jun 28 2012, 12:20 AM) Based on 350z, TC for normal road car only work for/when tyre losing grip & not to prevent tyre spin (F1 TC)... When the car tyre losing grip, TC will activate & hold the car from accelerate even push the pedal to the floor, car won't respond & accelerate until tyre grip return.. Isn't that the same? When I kick down in the Cross Touran the TC light shortly flashes, and there is no squeaking sound... |
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