If it's not even real leather... I have had leather textured plastic in other cars too.

Why set such low standards? Good enough in Malaysia? You can get better cars at a similar price. Why take good enough when you can get better? Also Malaysians pay a lot for the Camry. In the US the 2.5 with a 6 speed auto gearbox and 10 airbags is 22k USD. 70k RM. In Malaysia the 2 airbag one with a 2 liter engine and a 4 speed gearbox is 150k RM. The Camry that is even slightly comparable costs 180k (still only 4 airbags). So our taxes are high, yes. But adding almost 160% tax to the car? Nope. The tax rates are much lower. So... why is that so? Great margins for UMW and Toyota. That's it. A price of 130k would be much more realistic for a 10 airbag Camry 2.5, maybe a bit more cause the baseline one doesn't have HID. But no way should it cost 180k.

What are you looking for? Budget? The Skoda Superb is superb, rare, huge. Above D segment, but still D segment price tag (and VW tech).

Passat is a competent car, so is the Mondeo. 508 too, but I'd be a bit scared in terms of reliability (Peugeot + Naza). Teana is kind of nice looking. Second hand Volvos etc.? If second hand, then anything with poor resale value basically. For example the above mentioned Skoda, IF you can even find one (if no one has bought it, no one can sell it second hand). Ford Mondeo too.

Mh... current Camry owners should test the new Camry? So that they don't feel so bad about driving the old one? How nice of them!

Current gen 2.4 is ok, just as good as the new one. But low depreciation, so I would avoid it. No use buying second hand.

http://www.mudah.my/li?fs=1&ca=9_s&th=1&q=...ps=&pe=&rs=&re=

Only 50-60k. It's a long wheelbase Passat, basically (just look at the rear lights, exactly the same shape as the B5 GP http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...=20090611170115 ).

2011 Mondeo less than 130k.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIYs7oBUO3w&feature=related This is the new Superb. A close rival to the Mercedes E class.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: May 31 2012, 01:03 AM

So I get more car for less money. And that is a bad thing? How?

So you compare the K5 to a Ferrari. I think I need a K5. Like Ferrari...

True, Toyota get better second hand value. As I drive cars until they fall apart I care about... not at all. I'd rather have a good car in the first place, or get a second hand car with poor resale value. Let someone else suffer through the depreciation.

K5 isn't a Jap, so the Teana still is the best looking D segment car It seems classy, though the silhouette is a bit odd...

Although, wouldn't the Nissan Skyline/Infiniti G35 and G37 count as D segment car? I've seen a G35 coupe today, Malaysian plate. God is it gorgeous!

To me changing a car every 5 years hasn't been necessary. Better spend it on a good car in the first place and drive it longer (of course not everyone can afford, I can understand that).

Where is this one all new?

To me the Toyota to get is either the Prius C or the Prius. Both come with 7 airbags and VSC, and image? I mean one half of Hollywood is driving in Priuses. Both cars are cheaper than the Camry too. FC is lower as well, all for the small price of getting a smaller car. But both are much much safer than the Camry.

Anyway, it's not that ugly. Outdated, yes, but that's to be expected from a D segment car. That's what the buyers are usually looking for... those that can actually afford them.

I personally would go for the Skoda Superb. A bit more expensive, yes, but also above D segment. That's the one to get. Also a brand that I kind of like. Good cars, good price, and underdogs (at least here).

Seriously? wow. But well, is it needed in Malaysia anyway? Most kids I see in cars seem to be not restraint at all. First to die in a crash. Never seen a child seat before here, so no need for ISOFIX too. Toyota can save a few bucks there.

Well, if they'd sell it for the price they could sell it for, who would buy their other cars? The Prius C and Prius are already quite a problem... the C is only 20k more than the Vios, but so much better and safer. It's even (in certain areas, such as safety) better than the Camry, though much cheaper.

Tell him about the Skoda Superb. Same sort of car as the C class (even competing with the E class), but only 200k. It's a VW, so it's quite good. Look up the reviews. People generally like it.

Why does T introduce the Camry at Sepang? Easy... make Uncles feel young that they drive such a sporty car.

4 speed and legendary? 4 speed was fine 30 years ago. The times have changed, 6 is the absolute minimum nowadays, some cars have 8.

There are simply better options than the Camry, that's all.

I'm driving a 4 speed gearbox... and it's bloody awful. Absolutely inacceptable in a 150k car. In that price range I expect DSG or an 8 speed auto gearbox.

Could I afford a D segment car... well, I'm also driving a C segment car, and if I really want to I could probably get something from the D segment (second hand easily). Although we never do hire purchases, so it is slightly steep. But doable. Not so interested in buying a D segment car though, more interested in the Volvo C30.

@Thruster: No need for surprises with a D segment car. The audience doesn't expect or want it, usually. At least in Asia. Western tastes are very different.

If you are referring to someone saying Vios > Camry... well, I think that guy is just being sarcastic. However I do think the Prius C is >>> Camry. At least in terms of safety. 5 star rating the way you can buy it here, 7 airbags and VSC.

Ps: C63 AMG vs S300? I'll take the C class, thanks. A Clio V6 is > Laguna 1.4 (at least it is much more expensive, although if it is space for more than 2 passengers or even luggage that you want the Laguna wins hands down...).

Toyota Avensis has ISOFIX. At least since 2003. http://www.euroncap.com/tests/toyota_avensis_2003/172.aspx But then again that car has 7 airbags in 2003. (Same segment as Camry).

I think it is reasonable to tell potential Camry buyers that there are reasons why they should consider other cars.

Me personally, I would get the Skoda Superb, but it can't be compared to the Camry. Higher segment.

Well, why should Toyota care about safety? They offer 2 cars with a very high safety standard, Prius C and Prius. And those are the really unpopular Toyotas here, while the unsafe ones are very popular. Go figure... Oh and Toyota enjoys huge margins, that's for sure. They could offer a vastly better car for the price (they have all the designs, all the features), but why would they. If I were Toyota I would do the same.

The US Camry has 10 airbags btw.

What you mean, Japanese not into turbochargers? Skyline GT-R anyone? But yeah, not so often, and not so much for everyday cars, mostly only for high performance ones. They seem to prefer to optimize efficiency by adding electric motors, rather than turbos. In Europe road tax is often 100% connected to cc and how clean the engine is, so smaller cc makes a lot of sense, especially since fuel is extremely expensive (almost RM 7 per liter in Germany...). Low FC is very, very important.

I fully agree there. In 5 years even Malaysians will expect more out of a D segment car. By then there are more SC for other brands, more spare parts, ... what then? Why buy Camry, which looks extremely outdated by then?

Funny, Camry drivers only driving 110? Well, it's better that way. But then they always block me... and there's always someone hogging the right lane.

Btw. daytime running lights are mandatory since 2011 in Germany (on newly released cars only, but still).

If other brands constantly fail, and Toyota never does, then yes, reliability is a selling point. But all cars are rather good nowadays, the differences are rather small (and Toyota breaks down too). Then I'd rather look after my life.

That Sonata was quite rubbish, wasn't it? Koreans can be considered when it was released within the past few years, before that I wouldn't touch them.

Btw., funny how the Camry is the top of the line car for Toyota, when the budget brand Skoda has a car that sits well above the Camry (yes, I know there is Lexus, and those can compete with Skoda, but that's their luxury brand.).

Spare parts? But I thought the car is so reliable? Surely won't need spare parts, right?

Comfort... haven't been in a Camry in a long time, and it was an older one (2000?), but yes, not too bad, but then again no competition at all to the big Citroens.

But to those who are looking at resale value and cheap spare parts: You are getting a car that should cost around 110k to 140k (as the competitors for that amount are simply ahead and better equipped), but pay 150-180k for it, and then you say "but when I sell it second hand" I get more for it. Yes. You will, a bit. But will it balance out the premium you paid in the first place? Will the spare parts of other cars be so expensive that you'll spend 40k more, just in spare parts?

Fair enough stix, I think the problem are those customers who just buy without thinking. If you decide to buy a Camry, after having driven all the options, and thus having decided that you like the way a Camry rides most, and that your life isn't worth much, then fine. But just buying it without considering the other cars is... well, not smart.

In any case, if sales of the Camry would stop, and UMWs marketing research team finds out it is because of a lack of safety, we would have a Camry 2.0 with VSC and 10 airbags within a few months. Instead however people aren't buying the Prius C, although that one has 7 airbags and VSC. In a B segment car! (Which is how it should be.)

I think the only car that allows video while driving is the Land Rover... or something like that. And that's only because the screen can show video to the passenger and satnav to the driver. The driver won't get to see a video. And that's good! It wouldn't have surprised me if Toyota would let drivers watch videos in the Camry, after all Toyota doesn't care about safety in Malaysia.

It depends on what is luxury, I think. In terms of a soft ride the Camry should do well, probably also noise isolation will be decent. If luxury for you means an electric panorama sun roof, everything automatic, car parks itself, warns you if you depart the lane, listens to commands (like Siri), is very refined, high end audio system (think Bang & Olufsen in Audis), has an umbrella in the rear door (Skoda Superb and Rolls Royce have that feature), then no, the Camry isn't particularly good. And well, in terms of ride quality of course big Citroens are better too, and they are better at cornering as well.

Ps: If I can spend 150k on a car, I should be able to spend a bit more on fuel, no? Especially with the fuel prices in Malaysia (I mean... 1,90? Really? I couldn't care less if my car needs 7 liter or 12 liter, only thing that bothers me is that I need to fill up more often. I'm used to paying so much more...) Otherwise may I suggest the BMW F30 320d. Probably uses less fuel than a Kancil

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jun 12 2012, 09:14 PM

None, but since the Camry is equipped far worse than all other D segment cars, also those costing 140-150k, it should be priced cheaper than those.

Well, I'll buy a second hand conti over the Camry any day. Probably the Skoda Superb I for around 60-70k. The rest I can invest into maintaining the car, having the car checked throughoutly regularly (so that I can get hold of spare parts early enough), and maybe having a backup car. Though I don't think that will be necessary. A Superb I also isn't terribly modern, but it should be able to hold up to the Camry easily. Unfortunately there are literally no Superb II available, it seems.

Yes, high performance cars do let you turn off that feature. However there is a video of some guy driving his Aston Martin Rapide (just picked it up from the dealer), he drove without, and while driving a corner he crashes it. Easily. VSC/ESP stops the car from spinning. When you drive a very powerful rear wheel drive car on a race track and you know what you are doing it's more fun without, because you can get the tail to kick out in a controlled manner (well, if you can), and apparently that's a lot of fun (I've only managed to do that with the handbrake, on snow/ice, but yes, it's a weird but fun sensation). However you REALLY don't want that to happen out of nowhere, because usually that means you are going to crash into something.
VSC/ESP will also let you corner at higher speeds than usual... not that you should make use of it, but you never know if it may ever become necessary (and it could). With all the rain that we have here it's not too unlikely that the car will break out and spin, or you lose control.

Haha, well, couldn't it be the other way too? I'll make fun of and nag any relative driving a Vios, Avanza or Camry. Vios there are none (thank god! Citroen (even 2, plus our own Citroen), P1, P2, BMW, VW, Nissan, yes. Toyota, nope. I like my family ). Avanza one, but that doesn't belongs to her boyfriend. Camry there was one, but the Uncle switched to an X-Trail and apparently doesn't miss the Camry. I remember them preparing "see I told you so" remarks when I announced we were going to buy a Renault. So far I haven't heard any. Only "what's the price of a Kangoo nowadays? We need a new car...".

Btw., there's a popular saying (in relation to a really awful "newspaper") in German. "Eat shit. Millions of flies can't be wrong."

Fiesta sedan, Prius C and Prius, Forte 2.0 should also have I think, and of course the bigger ones from Europe, like Citroen C4 probably, C5 surely have, and probably also all VW except for the Polo sedan. Preve CFE also got I think. Toyota Avensis has VSC.

(Kangoo II also got, though optional I believe ).

Also more than 2 airbags would be fine.

(I think those numbers are a bit high though... hm).

Yeah I've seen what it does, unfortunately both of our cars don't have it (the Xsara would have, if we had bought the 1.6 instead of the 1.4, but alas we found a <1 year old one with a minor damage that was already fully repaired, yet the value of the car was much lower, so we decided to be cheap).

Of course if I spend 70+k I demand VSC/ESP. Anyway I'm the one who thinks a B segment car should have a minimum of 6 airbags and VSC, and yes, I draw the line at 60-70k. At least cars that cost more than that should have it, and ALL MPVs should.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcZBNJbu3aQ
This is what happens to tall cars without ESP when you have to turn hard left and then right (or vice versa), which can happen in emergency situations.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jun 12 2012, 11:58 PM