there's one thing i noticed about this musicians subforum, there isnt a topic on music theory!! or maybe i just didnt notice.or maybe there isnt any coz of our big ego. i do admit sometimes i feel very shy or scared to ask music theory questions.

so here's a thread just to ask questions on music theory, for all musicians!!

i wana ask if anyone has the scanned copy of a lesson by satriani on visualizing different modes on the entire guitar neck. saw it somewhere before but forgot where. isnt the usual box shaped things. he uses a different approach. feel like reading it again.

Poor fella... nobody replying to you lol... anyway I do not have that copy of lesson, sorry, can't help you.

Since this's a theory topic, I'ill ask something then. What's the chord progression for a standard 12-bar blues in... say, E???

Dumb question I know, but I'm stuck at the turnaround. T_T

Honestly, I can't even read notes.
Well, at least I can't remember how to read notes.
I was learning piano when I was like, 10 years old. Stopped when I was doing my UPSR (which was when I was 12 btw).
I'm beginning to pick up notes again with my guitar lessons, but can't get to grips with it.

Same story lol... only thing different is that I started when I was like, 6? Heh...

http://www.musictheory.net/index.html

i like this site the most because its :

- free
- clean ad-less interface
- contains trainers for brass (trumpet,french horn,tombone, tuba & euphonium) , guitar & keyboard .. mcm mcm lagi la trainer ade kat sana..
- contains an offline version for the entire musictheory.net website http://www.musictheory.net/downloads/offline.zip (4.7MB)



This post has been edited by fendii: Aug 31 2005, 12:48 AM

i just dont get melody..and cord progression...and alot of advance stuff...readin notes can just count lol..

Leap Freak, in 12 bars... you can blues something like this:
E / E / E / E
A / A / E / E
B / B / A / A
E / E / B / B
(E = E major or E7)
(A = A major or A7)
(B = B minor, Bm7, B major or B7)
(or you can even put all of them in minor...)

Learning various chord progressions allow a quick and easy background for improvisation...

Blacktrix, it's not about learning how to read the notes learning the scales, the modes and the chords structure... i'm sure you know a lot already in theory, you just don't want to admit it to preserve this "BLS" attitude.

EBP, aiyo... it reminds me something. Isn't it the PITCH AXIS THEORY ? In this case you should be able to find it on a guitar mag website, with a lot of archives of all "pros" lessons. Otherwise, I'm sure Slayer has something about it somewhere.
by satch himself : http://www.foreverjoe.com (in guitar lessons... then you have choices between different lessons, incl. pitch axis)
or mirror site : http://satriani27.tripod.com/id14.html

other writers:
http://satriani.worldsgreatestguitarist.co...ies/pitch-axis/
http://www.guitar9.com/columnist286.html

and to see how it is outside:
http://www.guitar.com/discuss/readmsg.asp?...=5273733&page=1
(people are actually using their brains to play music !?!)

Gee thanks a lot, time to see what I can improvise with that progression.

ill post up a blues e-book later...
talk bout 12 bars blues..... common scales for blues and some very nice licks

I didn't know you *could analyse all those in soooo detailed. LOL!
*Edit


FFS WTF!!!!

This post has been edited by led_zep_freak: Aug 31 2005, 04:53 PM

BLS Attitude?
You should hear Zakk go on and on and on about Guitar Theory.
I mean, he REALLY knows his S**T.

And I only know whatever is thought to me by my guitar instructor now. I only know basic scales and stuff like that..... but nothing too amazing.

LOL of topic


is this G# or Am(maj7) or Bush phailed at G major chord???

I think DIATONIC, means "is using only notes from the same scale"
basically, he's saying thazt in jazz, the chords do not all belong to one specific scale, so the musician has to find the "best" scale, to fit most of the chords notes... which is not really true in my opinion, but whatever ==> the solo is supposed to FIT the chords, and sound good. To do so, you may need to use different scales over diferrent chords. Not only ONE scale.


Blacktrix > at this level of technic, he definitely knows more about theory that one can imagine... but the BLS attitude is different : try learning scales when surrounded by gals, beers, leathers, funny cigarettes and long-bearded men ? too hard for most of us
anyway, i'm just kidding... how are your lessons going ? you jsut started them, haven't you ?

ruffstuff ... hehehe ... I suppose he's used to shorter d***s... err .... necks, sorry... mmmmm....

Good Mode mixes

Blues + mixolydian
natural minor + spanish phrygian

What else do you guys like mixing?

http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=39VFGDLRMXYQM0PQZRHW4V88N1

essential blues guitar lesson (no soundclips)

ssslayerrr , here is a good mix : vodka + gin + rhum + apple juice...

otherwise, I usually simply add extra-notes to a scale, without thinking that those extra notes actually belong to another scale. Am I too lazy ?
Hey, for instance, the E myxolydian + E blues = (in the form of a compact tab)
-0------3--4---------
-0---2--3------------
-0-1-2-3------------
-0---2----------------
-0---2----------------
-0------3--4---------

isn't it ? that sounds super good... especially the two high strings !!

ive just got more confused then ever after reading this site
http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory4.htm

[quote]
2
1 two beats in the bar
O the beat is a semibreve (whole note)
||O|| a bar contains 2 times 1/1 (semibreve=a whole note) [quote/]

doesnt 2 beats = crotchet...and is only 1 minim..which is not even a semibreve?

and 1 more

4
4 common time, also marked with a large C <- or is it 2/2

This post has been edited by tytons: Feb 4 2006, 12:26 PM

i dun really got what you mean...
2 beats = 4 crotchets

\about the "C", sorry but I dunno that writing...

semibreve = 4 beats
minims = 2 beats
crochets = 1 beat
quavers = 1/2 beats
semiquavers = 1/4 beats
demiquavers = 1/8 beats

so...the site says tat 2/1 time signature = a semibreve which is 2 beats...how can it be 2 beats when its semibreve..the example he game in the bottom is not supporting his point...im not sure if its a mistake or not but its really confusing me

tytons, ok i understand your point now. but i can't answer it... i'm going ot the beach, later ;aybe i'll try to read the site further... interesting anyway. Quite a brain bugger !

well i think he made a mistake....will search for someting to post later...to clear the prob

Hmmm .... go and check if you copy and paste the wrong thing

coz it doesn't make any sense, how can it be 2 beats when its semibreve (4 beats)

Maybe the site is wrong gua .... ? ?

This post has been edited by TheWhacker: Feb 5 2006, 08:18 AM

well i didnt copy n paste wrong..u can go see the site..i did post the link as well...tats the thing i was pening about..how on earth a semibreve is 2 beats...n the time signature is 2/1 dont make sense..but below he shows a 4/4 er...small composition n a semibreve is used...weird...i duno if its a typo or not...tat dude is a Dr. somemore..hehe.

well, you can always send him an email, i'm sure he would appreciate it !

I always start with pentatonic (minor or major) then go off into dunno wat weird altered lydian modes and doric modes and some altered dominant major scales.

The problem with not knowing what you're playing is that you easily get lost. Which i do. But if i get lost, then i just fall back on pentatonic again.

I guess this works for people who dont know crap about scales but still wanna solo. Like me tak tau malu..hahaha Very limited though, cuz most of the time i'll be playing pentatonic and a few standard riffs and progressions.

If the book ure looking is Joe Satriani - Guitar secrets, then heres the link for it http://rapidshare.de/files/12357787/Joe_Sa...ecrets.pdf.html


i got a little problem about harmonization here.. as for major scale the chords are I ii iii IV V vi vii(dim) ... can someone tell me chords for other scale(major & minor pentatonic, etc) ?

Dont use british name, instead use american name... it make so much easier for u to see the time signiture...

crotchets - quarter note
quavers - eighth note
semiquavers - sixteenth note
demiquavers - thirtysecond note

and so on...

.

can someone explaing to me what jaco pastorius (in one of his 1000 videos) is talking about when he says practicing in 3rds, 5ths, 6ths, etc....does it mean the intervals of scales?

its interval ( i think)
if he say go up in minor 3rd , u go up 3 frets
major 3rd , 4 frets
perfect fourth , 5 frets
perfect fifth, 7 frets

and so on

i might be wrong (and i think i am, haha)

well at least it's an explanation.
No harm in practicing it too...hahah practice is always good.

it's the good explanation, you're spot-on Keen !

can someone tell me the chords for other key & modes too (refer my previous post)... i know how to figure it out but its too leceh im not really good at it...

playing all 7 scales on a key up and down the frets what is the different when they all have same notes? anyone can explain?

it's not playing 7 scales...its playing 7 modes of the same scale (eg C-dorian C-lydian C-mixolydian...etc). And if i am correct, every mode is a different major scale, just beginning with the C-note....... If that makes sense....

ur question is not very clear, but if ur talkin about modes, then there are 7 modes in every diatonic scale(8 note sale)

This is C major scale(hopefully u know this one)
C..D..E..F..G..A..B..C

if u play the C major scale starting with a diffrent note ull get a diffrent mode

C..D..E..F..G..A..B..C this is C ionian
....D..E..F..G..A..B..C..D this is D dorian
........E..F..G..A..B..C..D..E this is E phrygian
............F..G..A..B..C..D..E..F this is F lydian
................G..A..B..C..D..E..F..G this is G mixolydian
....................A..B..C..D..E..F..G..A this is A aeolian
........................B..C..D..E..F..G..A..B this is B this is B locrian
............................C..D..E..F..G..A..B..C this is C ionian again

U dont have to play all this modes in order... u just have to know tthe unqiue sound of each scale and put emphasis on those notes... every mode has diffrent formula to build it .

hopefully this is clear enough.. if not just askk or u can also download this, "Frank Gambale - Modes, No More Mysteries"
from http://pianosheets.org/details.php?id=4299 This is where i learn my modes

This post has been edited by CommanderKeen: Jun 10 2006, 06:54 AM

Wow commanderkeen your theory knowledge is impressive!!! I don't think you really need lessons at this pointlar, since you're pretty disciplined and that probably helped much more than lessons.

Anyway I'm not sure about bass, but over here in the guitar world, the dorian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian and of course, ionian are the more popular modes used. I'm still struggling with mixolydian mode as I just can't visualize the damn mode on the fretboard, maybe I should start memorizing the notes?

I dont even know how to apply any of those to bass. But since i rarely solo on bass it's ok.

Solo or not I think learning some modes can help spice up your bass riffs heh. Especially when your guitarist is playing some jazzy 7th chords etc...

If your guitarist sticks to major/minor and powerchords I guess it's ok to stick to root/5th but of course, variety is the spice of life.

if your guitarist starts playing some jazzy chords, just whack him with your bass.

i normally use a lot of blues scales and minor pentatonics. THe main 7 modes i hardly touch. And my theory is still not up to that level where i can start jazzing around. So if my guitarist starts playing weird jazzy chords, then i will go with everdyings advice...

learn to play scales about anywhere on the neck starting from diff postitions and strings. just spend a week or so doin that everyday and before u know it u're free to go. the next step would be being creative after u already know how to play scales around the neck

easier said than done...
been trying for years

Yeah, I have done some but it's hard to visualize you know? Let's say you're improvising, you wanna switch from... say... A Mixolydian to C Mixolydian as the chord changes... it's gonna take more than a year's practice I reckon!

cmon, not years lah. when someone first told u to know/memorize all the notes across the entire guitar neck u mustve thought it was crazy too but i bet now if i tell you to play C when ur hand is in the 12th fret position i am sure u wouldnt have to think much to find out where is it. am i right???

same thing here. one u know the shape of a certain scale/mode, all u have to do is change ur position so the root note of that scale/mode starts where u want it to be and start playing. of course, u need to know all the notes on the guitar neck. this isnt like piano or keyboard. on the guitar ur fingering for a certain scale will be the same, you just have to change positions and root notes. eg: a minor penatonic box shape fingering style. play it starting from the 5th fret of the lowest string and u get a A minor pentatonic, start on the 3rd u get a G.

note: sorry if i sound kinda blur but i cant really think well now.....must get more sleep...watching worldcup...gtg to sleep

I'm still convinced it will take years...Cuz i havent got it yet ...

Hmmm, that make sense... Even though your explanation was pretty blurry (World Cup fever ) but I got your point... I'ill give it a try next time I practise me scales...

i dun get it....regardless of where i start, it's still A minor pentatonic rite? but the question was changing scales....if i play a C-major scale it is easy to move it around the fretboard. But changing scales is a different thing. eg changing between mixolyd and lyd modes of the C scale at different positions...thats hard....

fyi, every scale cover up the whole fretboard... its not that hard to change a scale to another u can even do it without changing ur left hand position..

i cant...hahaha

Didn't see this thread on page one anymore.... Forgot all about it.
free free kena flame....rosak reputation.... hahaha

so: copy/paste from thread

So just to spark of a discussion

-How are music and theory related?
-And how can one apply theory to being musically creative?
-How can I put into my music what i have practiced?

For example if i practice chromatics all day long sequentially (up and down the fretboard), putting that into my solo will sound rather...stupid, because its melodically incorrect with the tune..... If you get what i mean....

I've seen many people saying "practice this practice that...do this dont do that". But none of them says " these notes fit together, and these dont". And that is in my opinion the biggest problem facing many young aspiring musicians such as myself.

Opinions?

This post has been edited by Bassix: Jun 21 2006, 06:49 PM

actually i would like to know how much theory helps in the overall mastery of guitar. Would playing songs via tabs suffice over years or at some point we'd have to stoop down and study theory in order to progress?

it all depends on whether or not you are the type who see success in music as playing other peoples songs/riffs/solos perfectly without mistakes. Or you are the type who, like me get bored after awhile and looks for something new. I guess then theory is important....my problem is applying the technique (either playing technique or notes & composing) to my music. Improvising if you would prefer to call it.

I mean, everyone can play C major scale. Everybody says practicing scales helps. I personally dont see how. Well, it did a little bit in terms of speed training. But other than that, it didn't do very much. Or maybe i just don't know how to apply what i learn technically to what i do musically....

It actually depends on what you are heading for in the end. Usually a musician's goal if to achieve pure expression, in the sense that you could play what you hear in your head without relying heavily on theory knowledge. Tabs are pretty much shortcuts to play a song, and it does help in training your ears.
But imo, knowing how to play without theory knowledge is like having an ability to speak a language but not being able to write it. Theory helps you understand what you're playing & with a strong foundation, the music you hear would make sense to you. You won't be just hearing a 'group' of notes, you would be able to make sense of the melody, chord progression etc.
Whether it's important or not to improve your playing, I don't know. But imo, never treat theory as a boring thing, think about the things that you would learn from it, the more you know, the more exciting music is to your ears.

Theory is really great and everything...but it still doesn't help me in being creative. So is creativity linked to theory at all? Or is it natural inborn talent?

What i'm saying is...ya great i can play all the seven modes of a scale...woohoo...now what? It's frustrating to spend so much time practicing the scales and not being able to apply them in the music without them sounding like scales. I listened to Pix's blues improvisation. It was good. I know he used a few modes in there but it didn't sound like a scale. How?

I think its something similar to learning English, where you learn what word to use and when to use and how to use. Its something where everyone knows, but there's some folks who can express their sentence or vocabulary to some degree

Learning basic theory is important for pianist or reed/brass players. These players have to start young coz there's lots to learn if you're serious about learning them. Its not like us guitarist .... get a cheap Rm600 eletric guitar and brag to everyone .... "I can play a G chord!!!!"

so the more you speak english and the more you read it the better you express yourself?

Guess that seperates the "artist" from the "musicians". I'll stick to my G-chord for now...

Yup

So the more you use those Theory stuff you learned the better your guitar playing aka "expressing yourself"

Sometimes you can mix and match, like this XYZ scale can match with ABC scale to form a 123 riff

It's like English .... there's alot of those words where you never heard of or never come across before ... and then when you use it, people like "what's the meaning of that word"

i practised scales a lot, especially the blues, dorian, aeolian and ionian scales. Basically, everytime i pick up my guitar I spend the whole time playing improvisation and scales... So for me it is totally related : I started playing scales a lot, and I end up improvising all the time. Most of it is crap but it's a superb exercise to work out on your 'music skills' (listening to yourself, try to create melodies, etc...).

The second thing is that scales will open doors to new sounds, new melodies, new chords that would otherwise not be familiar to your ears. Therefore, without knowing those scales, you can't even think about an
original melody. It's like another dimension you're not aware of.
You'll always mess around with the pentatonic minor scale because 90% of radio music and 90% of the music you listened to when you were younger is based on that 5-notes scale. Learning new scales open new doors.

well just my 2 cents...

thanks bassix for the comments

Very insightful. and i'd like to know, to reconfirm, scales are of the same pattern even from different starting positions? pardon me, i've only just started to delve into scale playing and it seems pretty dry up till now.

join the club...hahaha

what do you mean exactly by same pattern?

If you bring the pattern up the fretboard u are changing the key. If you want to play the same scale (same key) higher up the fretboard, then the pattern has to change (also depending on which strings you choose to play on).

ah, i meant to change the key, from the same beginning string to a higher/lower fret, i'd be using the same pattern right? as opposed to shifting it to a diff string, which would require further transposing?

change key ya...you just move up the fretboard with the same pattern. Although further transposing by playing other strings can't do any harm i guess....No harm practicing extra.

oh okay, duly noted, thanks for the tip-off. haha.

Nobody layan in the bass forum
So i post here. It's more about switching between modes and i'm sure you guitarists and pianist out there know how to do it well.

Here's the post from the bassist forum

then dont play the Ab, fill it in with a note played twice like the C, B or A.
or leave a space, or mess with the rhythm.
or come in on the F# to G.
whatever you bassists do

This post has been edited by Everdying: Oct 16 2006, 06:12 PM

juz wanna ask
is anyone have all the details of "family of chord"???

thx & regards

now why didnt i think of the F# G thing....that's perfect

Quick question, anybody has a good explanation of what is playing in cut time?

easy one, does any one has a fretboard theory lesson online? wanna go through abit n learn more.

is fretboard lesson useful for tuning different setups?