hello,

just want to ask something, my friend and i have a arguement,

he said diving is not cheating, its part of the game.. (referring to barca vs real games)

but i said diving is cheating, if u tackled or fouled, then off balance and drop to the ground, thats not diving right?
i believe diving is ppl who drops to the ground without any contact, and they are call diver, and thats cheating right?

but he said diving is parts of the game and not cheating? lol..?
he ask me to go ask some 'pro' ppl with high knowledge of football explain to me, then come back to him again with an aswer..

so i want to ask u guys, is diving cheating or not??
i'll link this to him to let him read this..
sorry bad english, hope some1 can explain better for me..

thanks..

cheating when the players get caught diving...heheheheh

to me, it's cheating. which part of fair play and beautiful game considers diving with em?

Modern football, dive at right place & right time you'll get your team a free kick or a penalty.

This post has been edited by torreto: May 10 2011, 01:14 AM

this one ah.....seen this argument many times b4...lazy to write tldr comment now, so just to answer ur question, imo yes

cheating is actually in a lot of sport.. like elbow-ing ur opponent before going for a rebound in basketball, cheap shot below belt level in tae kwon do sparring.. and diving in football..

it is cheating.. but at the same time.. it is part of the game..

its not that diving is part of the game..
is that, cheating is part of the game..

cheating/diving is not applicable to barca..tat 1 call acting

get ur facts right

This post has been edited by tzxsean: May 10 2011, 01:36 AM

It's definitely part of the game now, but it's not a legal aspect of the game. And yes it's cheating and you're only punished for this if you do it poorly. That's the sad truth.
Like the game between RM and Barca, both teams have fantastic divers and marvelous play actors.

This post has been edited by themanguydude2: May 10 2011, 03:41 AM

Diving cause opponent team get red card...

So consider it diving is cheating...

You have to make it clear.
Diving is cheating.
But cheating is a part of football.

Cheating is part of the game but it doesn't mean you're allowed to do that.

If diving is not wrong, then why a player will get a card if caught diving?

Diving is still part of the game

And IMO, diving is cheating, but cheating is still part of our life in everything

yes and it spoils the game. football ain't no swimming.

I think every club got the bad side and Barcelona one of them...

Barcelona players acting and diving in Champions League totally disgrace.

cynical/proffesional/taking it for the team foul to stop counter attacks are also cheating....

and yellow cards are no deterent from doing that... its more like a license that allow players to do it at least once...

i think FIFA should consider sin-bin punishment for such offence. if you do it, your team will be playing with less players for 5-10 minutes on top of the yellow card. now that is the actual taking-it-for-the-team...

This post has been edited by aressandro10: May 10 2011, 09:15 AM

Sometimes you just have to dive. Because if you don't, the referee might not award a free kick thats rightfully yours.

It is retarded, but the rules in football is quite inconsistent.

well diving is of coarse a cheat and unethical as it is against sportsmenship, else they wont even give yellow cards for that.

The origin of diving starts when players are encourage to go down to attract referee's attention. You know that there are 22 players on the field and the referee cannot be looking out for everyone. Players are taught to go down when they feel there is any pain where they need treatments, that is the only way to attract referee's attention to stop the play so you can receive treatment. Hypothetically speaking, if you are hurt and you still stand, the referee wont think that you're injured and needs treatment. Thats why our coach also taught us to lie down even tho the injury doesnt really hurt much.

but some players abused this part of football, they go down with the intention of getting a penalty or getting someone sent off, not because they are seeking for treatments. Thats where diving beings.

The difference between barca and other teams is.. Barca dives, acts and pressure the referees to sent players off.. while the others dives to win free kicks or penalties.

Just my Point of view =D

nah, i think the difference is they over-did it

Simple - Diving is always cheating. Diving is never part of a football game. Obviously, it's not sporting for a footballer to dive to get a penalty or free kick. Other than that, diving looks really stupid. Now modern football many divers, you ask your friend he practice to dive since he say is part of the game.

In my opinion, any attempt to gain an advantage over your opponent to gain an unfair advantage is cheating so yes, diving is cheating. If diving weren't illegal, why is it a yellow card offence? Just ask your friend that. If is were "part of the game" like shielding the ball or a shoulder check, you won't get booked if you get caught will you?

yes... diving is cheating.... christiano ronaldo is the best diver ever... he's a freaking cheater.... top of the list. Nuff said.

You should see how marscherano, busquets and pedro drama acting combinations.. thats how you dive and act... compare to ronaldo its childs play to them

This post has been edited by projectnew: May 10 2011, 12:10 PM

the problem with Barcelona is they are really not that skilled in diving .. but still want to do it... which turned out comical most of the time..

Ohhh, a great place for 'unbiased' neutrals to throw in their biased opinion.

To answer the thread, I think yes, diving is cheating, but still, it's also a part of the game. Most players, with very very few exception, will look for advantage whenever they can get one.

To dive and get fouls/penalty is still somewhat acceptable as this is to blame the referee situation.

But to dive and then roll around like u got shot by a sniper and gets opponent send off i utter disgrace.

second it. Some times, the player knows if he didnt jump/avoid the tackle, its gonna be a massive blow to him. who want to get hurt n spend time in physio room most of the time? Its a normal reflex when player avoid the tackle, but in most cases now days, the player do a lot more than that by taking some acting classes

can say really.... marscherano, busquests and pedro doesn't do it all the time. Christiano Ronaldo on the other hand dives in every match.... Such a disgrace to the name Ronaldo... no offence to CR7's fan... but he's a cheater.

i dont agree with u bro,... this season, Ange de "diving" Maria has win a penalty for Madrid around 13 times.. n most of it comes from diving...

as for me, diving is not cheating.. referee cannot be at the right place at a right time.. he has only 2 legs, 2 eyes and he has to observed 22 players on the pitch... somemore, if team are on the counter attack, (eg- ronaldo run with the ball) did u imagine how the ref to run n follow ronaldo foot steps?

yes, there is a linesman, but, how far is it normally???

-just my opinion-

so you condone the over agressive tackles and kicks and stomps that might actually be a threat to a player's physical condition?

its funny how mourinho can get into ppl's heads. for that i do salute him. Christiano has been diving for most of his career despite his physical strength while the 3 guys u mentioned, with the exception of busquets, do not even dive half as often. or even a quarter. Only in the match against real where desperate times require desperate measures, which i as a barca fan am not proud of. But to say "compare to ronaldo its childs play to them" is basically just flawed.

if youre cheating,make sure only you that knows what happen. dont make it tooooo clear for ppl to see it

part of the game

everybody dives

Diving and earn the team a penalty is still not consider cheating? Then I do not know what to say. This is like using your hand to score a goal and escape the referee's view. The way I see it, FIFA should incorporate the video review. For Christ's sake, the technology is now HD and 3D. why can't we use video review to review back... it only takes a minute to review back a crucial decision. Referees are humans, they tend to make mistakes... FIFA, please learn from NBA. If not, ban the player 3 matches for diving, if they are caught after the game. These diving and hand ball destroy the whole "beautiful game" concept. Wake up FIFA!

The barca and real match was very convincing of their diving talents. As long as you dive, you are a cheater. So every football players are cheaters?

There is a levels of cheating in football from my current perspective. You dive to earn free kicks and penalties is already a normal thing you see in football... thats what cristiano ronaldo always do. Its so normal and kind of became part of the game.. that most referee will go lenient with it. If they were to punish every person that dives, you won't see anyone playing on the pitch in the spanish league maybe just the keeper. Sarcasm.

Barca on the other hand is another level of cheating. They dive, rolling on the floor, cover their faces, over react and getting the referees attention. After that, all the players including the keeper surrounds the referee giving pressure to him show card. Success rate super high.

Dani Alves and pepe incident, Ok from the match point of view pepe deserve the red card for that harsh challenge. Alves went down, screaming in pain of his broken leg. He then went out with a stretcher. I convinced me that he is really injured. A few minutes later he came back in fit as a fiddle. I was like WTefff... the physio awesome as hell... after seeing that video that pepe tackle didn't even touch alves leg at all... I am truly disgusted the way alves acted.

Not to mention Marscherano.. I am really surprise how much he changed after he left liverpool.. He learned a new skill, dive bomb. Use to respect him because he always gets the job done at liverpool with his superb vision and tackling skills..

Pedro and busquets. Very talented players. Over react too much that its not even funny anymore. Lost respect here again.. Messi Xavi and iniesta are not as innocent as you think, they do dive sometimes.

Most top players do dive... rooney nani torres drogba gerrard and so on.

WELL I'm KINDA SICK WITH THIS!!!

KTHXBAI

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Added on May 10, 2011, 3:42 pmAgreed..

This post has been edited by projectnew: May 10 2011, 03:42 PM

nmpak sgt butthurt fan real kalah ngn barca..

This post has been edited by solidsnake_84: May 10 2011, 03:46 PM

btol2...kalah is kalah... menang is menang...

the question now is diving cheating... non related to the Real Barca game. The Real Barca game had turn to another level which you don't normally see on their standards. To me, diving to earn a penalty is cheating

Just because the referee cannot possibly spot every single dive attempt doesn't mean it's not cheating. What you're saying is as long as the player does it brilliantly then it's not cheating.

exactly!!!

Doing it once or doing it on a consistent basis, both cases are still considered diving. Just because you don't do it as often as others, it doesn't make you a non-cheater.

Christian Vieri is the man that never dive or condone play-acting and diving doesn't he? I vaguely remember he said something like that.

Ya... I don't recall him doing anything like that. So does Roberto Baggio, Zinedine Zidane and Ronaldo...

Those are real footballers, rely on strength, pace and technique to outmuscle and get pass opponent. Hope there are more footballers have the balls like them. Nowadays too much diving and fake injury. I can barely defend this sport when some red-neck Americans label it as 'ladies game'.

Berbatov said the samething too, he said he is a saint when he first joined man utd.

I've been watching the clip for like 13 times now and still don't quite get what are you trying to imply.

lol... He salutes what you said just now...

If wan to call diving cheat, why not evrything else?

Why angkat tangan when the ball is out and you know you the one that put it out?
Why you must move 10 yards from original place when throw-in/ free kick?
And many else i too lazy to write

Becos these acts that you are referring to is so small that they don't change the game that much. Diving to get a penalty is different case. 80% of the penalty will be converted into a goal. When your team is a goal down, the momentum swings the other way... that causes team to lose... it affects the game. angkat tangan to win a throw in is not so significant as winning a penalty by diving.

so its not a cheating?

This post has been edited by fifthtouch: May 10 2011, 04:36 PM

corner kick is not 80% guarantee goal...

If diving isn't cheating, why do you get a yellow card if you get caught?

ya not 80%. 66.6 % only in bolton vs arsenal game

why you keep on editing ur reply?

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Added on May 10, 2011, 4:39 pmbased on how many games? you take one game as a stats... wise guy

This post has been edited by hakka_jin: May 10 2011, 04:39 PM

haha i think what write is retarded so i quickly change. nvr know someone quote me..


nah.. about 55% chance if against arsenal . dunno bout otehr team

This post has been edited by fifthtouch: May 10 2011, 04:41 PM

The world is the stage and we are all its actors..

hmm, its the truth alright
i just hope the superiority of football displayed by your team will not delude u from whats cheating or not

back to main topic:
such topic, this in particular...very difficult to put sense into it
i think i just discussed it with my fellow gooners not to long ago,

neways, i support "start diving or u will only get left behind"

as no action will be taken on u, yellow card? fine? ban one match? mehh whats that compared to getting your team through
it is cheating alright, but no big measures have been taken by the footy govern bodies on this issue
u dive today, tmr everything is forgotten

look at the past 2-3 weeks of footy El Classico match, i guess theres no need to mentioned who and how
and now look at today, the only thing people remember today is that Barcelona is in the finals now, doesnt matter what fuk happened on the pitch againts real
suarez handball against ghana, if i nv mentioned it.. i doubt its even in our footy minds at all

simple as that, its the dark side of footy
one fine day if your team is in the final, and your team got knocked out by a controvesy dive penalty
you can rant all you want, i would as well,
but the only thing people will remember and appear at the back of the paper is the team that lifts up the trophy, sad but true, thats part and parcel of footy now

lots more to discuss in this topic, especially those faking fouls that led to player getting sent off
difficult to dwell on this issue

This is one of an example why diving is cheating



Once an opponent lost his man, they tends to act violent and almost lose control their emotional....

I can't understand people condolence of diver just can't....

I think it depends on how you define dive.

What you said about the yellow card, to me is more of "play acting" rather than a "dive".

Last time I remember when Hasselbaink was in Chelsea, he did a 2-footed challenged on someone. The guy jumped and dived to prevent being hit by Jimmy. Its very obvious that Jimmy didn't touch him but everyone knows that its Jimmy's fault, even he acknowledged it and apologized. Hasselbaink got the yellow card and the other guy wasn't punished for his "dive".

Diving is a bookable offense. It's in the rules, not something I made up. If you go down when there's no contact, you can receive a yellow. Players often go down easy, at the slightest hint of contact but there was at least contact.

I get what you mean and it is sometimes subject to the referees discretion. In your example, Hasselbaink committed and offense first by going in two footed. Jumping over him was merely and act of self defense.

That is why I think football rules are very inconsistent.

The guy didn't jump over or anything, he made it look like he got hit which he didn't. The ref knew that he didn't get hit but still gave Jimmy a yellow.

If Jimmy were to actually hit the guy, and the ref saw it then it would definitely be a red.

I'm not very sure about diving being a bookable offense, since I've never read the rule book before. But I'm sure that simulation will get you booked.

Then again like I said it depends on how you define the word dive. Since a lot of players do that while celebrating a goal

can't blame them. Its the truth actually.

lol football is the game that uses brain, not solely on physical. You need to use ur intelligence to allocate your physical ability so that you can exploit what is allowed in the rule to the maximum.

Its not like some kind of sport where you just ram into anything knowing that you are outnumbered. thats just brainless. Its not about being the biggest guy with the biggest balls, but its about being the smartest guy who scavenges everything possible.

my coach once asked "name me another sport that is played with feet and feet only". There was no answer to this question, the answer is obvious, only football. The closest one is futsal, but futsal is just football, i mean, u know what i mean, because no other sport is played with the foot and its actually easier for us to control with our fingers than using our foot.

And also the same reason why football is the most popular sport on the planet.

i think theres a fine line between falling when theres slight contact, and falling when theres no contact at all.

If you fall from the slightest of touch, yes maybe u arent being sportsmanlike. coz you probably can continue running. But this doesnt change the fact that the defender who tackled the player and not the ball, has caused a foul coz there is a CONTACT. Some players chose to make the most of this foul, by falling coz if he doesnt fall ref wont give a foul. In all technicality, everything is right. Just as mentioned in the beginning, not sportsmanlike.

Falling when theres no contact at all, now i consider that as cheating. when you fall without contact, you arent making the most out of something (coz there isnt anything there to begin with!). You are trying to TRICK referee into THINKING it is a foul.

so in short, scenario 1 is more towards convincing referee, while scenario 2 is saying it is a foul when theres no contact, basically cheat. When in play ref only got a split decision to determine which is which. So dont really blame ref for getting a decision wrong. T

Then again this is just my definition of what is a dive as compared to falling-from-the-slightest-touch. you may have different opinion.

if diving is cheating then... the ref not give a freekick and penalty for a clear contact also unfair to the players...

This post has been edited by Ichighost: May 10 2011, 10:45 PM

It's cheating alright.. the difference is whether U get caught doing it. If U've played long enuff U will know lotsa tricks of the trade... especially from ppl playing at the state or social leagues.. how to deceive the referees, how to break Ur opponent's legs & escape with just a warning.. how to make Ur opponent sent off... how to tug Ur opponent's shirt when he tries to runaway from U... I played in KL League for just a year.. & I've seen enuff..

Yeah it's highly subjective and really up to the referee to interpret in a split second. Players these days go looking for contact especially when they are in the box and sometimes go down in anticipation of it. They end up looking really stupid though when it doesn't come but when it does, they get a pen. Ideally, I'd like for players to continue to play until they are stopped absolutely but it's wishful thinking more than anything.

And yes, diving is a bookable offence.

+1 this

Making up rules and suitable punishment for each rule is one thing, interpreting the offence is another. "Was a player clear on goal? Was he in a goalscoring position? Was there contact? Was the foul intentional?". There is little point in the FA sitting around coming up with a list of infringements and then devising deterents when the interpretation of the offence is unclear. Referees have to make these decisions on the spot without the benefit of replays and this is still to me, the biggest issue. We have the benefit of watching 3-4 replays in slow motion and still, we argue over it.

Meh, football is turning into a non contact sport.

I'm pretty sure this thread is about 'cheating', not about 'body-contact'. Football still have plenty of tackles, its just that players tend to look for the decision that benefit his team the best. It creates a trend like Quick mentioned, you don't do it, you get left behind.

I admit that things have got worse lately. But can you really blame the footballers? Football today is all about result, the final scoreline. To hell with all those flicks, or dribbles, or passes, or intelligent turns that may fool everybody, none of them win you matches. Its the score that matters. So that leave you with 2 main tasks on the pitch; don't let opponents score, or score goals yourselves.

Now, I think everybody will agree with me that footballers today have significantly lower level of technical ability compared to players in early 2000s. Which current crop of players have similar level to Scholes, Seedorf, Totti, Rivaldo, Nedved or even Valeron? Let alone Zidane and Ronaldinho.

So this hinders the ability of current teams to attack as fluently as teams back in early 2000s. Consequently, goals may be hard to come by especially against strong teams. As a result, while managers still have attacking plans in their mind, defensive plans is the priority these days. Every team were set up with overcautious mentality. Even some teams were set up not just for not leaving anything behind, but also concentrated on breaking up opponents play, and towards some extreme extend, fouling opponents to provoke. Because of this occasionally extreme approach, I believe, that lead to the increase of dives and cheating in big matches. Y'know, the more fouls received, the more chances to deceive the referee. And the players may think "Why not?".

Don't say that the likes of Zidane and Totti used to tore even the most negative of defense back then. Just watch UCL final match, Real Madrid vs Leverkusen, did Leverkusen play defensively? AFAIR European football night seldom get so damn boring like today.

This is what I observe, by comparing today's football, and early 2000s/late 1990s. So I think the main cause of this trend can actually be traced back to the idea brought by current coaches. I wish for more ideas used to be carried by Ottmar Hitzfeld, Marcelo Lippi, Ancelotti, and of course Alex Ferguson. I think Guardiola is the current flag bearer, but where is everybody else?

My 2 cent

Diving is part of the job pal.. It's call, professionalism.

i have no problem when Shawcross break Ramsey's leg due to honest mis-timed tackle... thats what contact sport is all about..

but it get on my nerves when a players strategically break rules of the games to gain an unfair advantage due to their inferiority to beat the opponent fairly...

@ matyrze

If every other player is prone to dive and guling guling at the slightest of contacts, who will even want to make a tackle? Hence, no contact sport. Somemore nowadays kena body check also can guling guling while clutching face.

The coaches must be in on this! If you reprimand your players for cheating, then surely they will stop doing it?

This post has been edited by madmoz: May 11 2011, 02:09 PM

i try to think of something that would work at all football matches at all level. Not just professional ones. Even here in Malaysia, not all Super League matches have video facility. Let alone school level match in some remote African country..

whats beautiful about football is the universality of it. When you start to make some deviation to the rule that only apply to certain type of match (in one MSL matchday, only 1 match have multiple angle camera facility while the others dont), you are further taking it away from normal human level. it is already going further due to money as it is.

one thing i expect to change once video technology is applied is playing to the whistle is no longer applied as even the referee whistle can be overruled by video evidence...

This post has been edited by aressandro10: May 11 2011, 02:10 PM

I don't know what you're talkin about madmoz, as I don't think players have stopped tackling now. But I think attacking players nowadays get provoked a lot more than it used to be. Tackles is part and parcel of the game. It is the aggression and the provocation on these attacking players causing the dives.

I think I should rephrase my question in previous post: did Leverkusen resort to this provoking tactics on Real players? Like hard high tackling whenever possible, cynical fouls, even elbowing opponents out of referee's eye sight? These are the reality of today's football.

I am talking about extremes, yes. If diving is not stomped out (and it isn't, judging by the way barcelona got away with it, nothing to do with you being a barca fan) now, there will come a time when making a tackle is too risky. Tackle jer, opponent jatuh, free kick.

Then why tackle at all?

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Added on May 11, 2011, 2:25 pmInstead of playing rough and tumble basketball, let us all play netball instead then, where contact is at a minimal.

This post has been edited by madmoz: May 11 2011, 02:25 PM

of coz la diving is a cheat. ppl make simple and smart tackle or just a minimal contact but u dive just to let them get red card or to get penalty/free kick. it should not be in football because we can see usually this beautifull game got spoiled just because of 1 ppl dive and get penalty and win 1-0. its just too unfair.

@madmoz,

Then any provocation and cynical/professional fouls should be stomped out as well. Sure in big games its hard to tell for referees, like Duke said. So if it is so difficult to curb this problem through rules and referees, then how?

I think the responsibility lie on the managers. Start playing fair in defense, and you will get your fair game.

Agree, no need to play football just play chess or swimming where there is diving contest.

I'm curious into why professional fouls are brought into this topic of cheating.

So people, do you judge this as cheating?

That is why FIFA still uncertain to use video technology, the official will lose their authority to make decision.

i am quite receptive about goal line technology though.. as it does not bring too much difference in direct play by play decision making on the part of officials and players between venue who have the technology and venue who don't..

If there's touch, it's OK I guess although if the fall is so obvious, memang cheat lah. But the players don't have to roll over like Eboue-moving-the-grass style or holding their face like they've been b**** slapped when the challenge was nothing at all. If you want to fall down, fall if there's a touch, but don't fake injuries. Bunch of gays. *hint Barca/Real/La Liga/Serie A..

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Added on May 11, 2011, 5:20 pm+ Nani. You're not the king of pop! Just get back up if the injuries are nothing you softie!

This post has been edited by Wan: May 11 2011, 05:20 PM

this case almost same as suarez infamous goal line handle the ball but different is that 1 is shot on target while for ole case, the opponent might not score from the 1 on 1.

That's a tactical foul me guess. Taking one for the team. Although it should not be condoned, we see it everyday in football. Stopping quick counterattacks in the halfway line, intentional shirt tugging in a set piece, repeated fouling on a target player to rile him up etc. We've seen it all happen before. I might be biased, but seeing Ole do what he did made my love for him grow even more.

yess... total cheat.. and a daylight robber as well.. the team is inferior to stop the attack within the rules so they have to resort to unfair way to gain advantage.. how is it any different from Basquet rolling to get a player sent off...

the fact that he is willingly doing it and even applauded by the fans and teammates means the deterrant is still not severe enough compare to the gain...

This post has been edited by aressandro10: May 11 2011, 09:18 PM

unrelated to replying to the thread.. go to youtube and watch it instead of watching it embedded.
the most liked comment is funneh.

That's so untrue.... watch NBA and you'll know how good is video technology. I know you can't equip video technology to every single league in this world. But at least the World Cup they can incorporate it. WC and other big football venues are equipped with multiple cameras? Why not use them? So, next time if we see another "hand of god" goal that was not spotted by the referee, you still say it is part of the game? No wonder the American call this "the ladies game"

but i think its all these wrong decisions by the ref that makes the game controversial and well..exciting!!

The difference is that bUsquets is trying to con the referee into thinking the opposition made a horrible tackle on him while solskjaer on the other hand is back tackling(illegally) the opposition.
Busquets = Trying to get the opposition sent off with play acting AND attempting to get away with it(which he did)
Solskjear = Tackling the opposition even knowing full will that he will get a red card for it with no attempt to get away with it.

Both are doing something that are not within the rules, but one tried to cheat the referee(and succeeded) while the other didn't and receive his punishment with no complaints.
Busquets got no punishments for his play acting + diving while solsjaer receives a red card.

This post has been edited by themanguydude2: May 13 2011, 02:28 PM

well the method and end result is different.. but the aim is still to unfairly give advantage to your team ahead of the opponents which both succeeded.... it annoys me that one is applauded but the other is abhorred...

for me Busquets also taking it for the team because he could easily be caught by the ref and given a yellow card for simulation if that effort not succeed...

Solskjear and Man U players did not attempt to con and influence the ref because the tackle was too bloody obvious. If there is a hint of a doubt they can argue about, united players would have surrounded the ref already eventhough they knew he was at fault..... there is no honest martyrdom here... if Solskjear or Suarez can hide their cheat like Vidic did against Arsenal, they will also buat bodoh and walk away also... in both cases any attempt to influence the ref would have been futile from the start so they do not even bother..

This post has been edited by aressandro10: May 13 2011, 03:25 PM

Regarding to the applause i think it is related to fanbase and slightly bias view by some EPL fans. Else, i agree with you. Their aim is still same, no one should applaud any form of unfair play.

Don't get me wrong there, I am fully aware that both incident doesn't deserve an applause by the fans. It's just busquets is trying to escape punishment(and get an opposition sent off) while solskjaer didn't.

That's true too, referee did the best he can and correct too when he sent Solksjaer off. As for Busquets, he might be lucky for the most time. But he can't do that all the time in his young career, it is same as C. Ronaldo. Referee not buying him anymore because of his infamous dive in the past, although some tackle that he received are legitimate.

Most team gets punished for cheating.. barcelona doesn't.. how many times you see barcelona players get sent off? Don't gimme bullshyt that barcelona are innocent and shyt...when they dive and over react they never get cards or sent off. In fact it is the opposite, when the dive the opponent team gets carded and sent off.

Sounds familiar?

This post has been edited by projectnew: May 13 2011, 03:36 PM

Key sentence. Cheating is an attempt to deceive, giving yourself or your team an advantage. If I punched another player intentionally, there is no deception at all. I know what I'm going to do is wrong, and I'm willing to accept the consequences. When you go down like you've been tagged by a sniper when contact was minimal, you are attempting to deceive the referee into believing it's more than it was.

-typos-

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 13 2011, 03:46 PM

Well said, pretty much sums up my gripe on why professional fouls are categorized under cheating here ...

Like many english words, cheat also have many meaning. To deceive would be an appropriate meaning for cheat in real live.

But in a scope of competition, any attempt to violate rules deliberately is also called a cheat. regardless if he is caught or not. Vidic did what solskjaer did and escaped many times. Both of them are cheats because they break the rules so that their team gain advantage from it.

When we agree to enter a contest, we are in bind to respect the rules and limitations of the game because the rules make the game fun. Whats the use of an opponent accepting to play with you when you do not respect the bind and manipulate loop-hole in the weak punishment in the rules to gain advantage.

The way teams deliberately fouling Barca players as the only way to stop them, its no suprise Bosquect also deliberately mis-influence the referee to stop those deliberate fouls. Cheats versus cheats.

The problem here is the weak punishment that make attempts of the foul profitable to the team even after the punishment. Such a blatant break of rules that Solskjaer did that effect greatly the turnout of the game should be punished by Manchester United's disqualification and a direct 3-0 win for the opponent to justify and deter the offense.

the key word here is deliberate. Offense that is visibly deliberate beyond reasonable doubt should be punished heavily on the part of the team (not just the player is sent off or suspended), compare to offense that is non-deliberate.

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Added on May 13, 2011, 5:46 pmdepends on the scope of the action. If you intentionally go out to knock Lionel Messi out so that your team have a glimmer of hope to win against Barcelona, than you cheats..

This post has been edited by aressandro10: May 13 2011, 06:48 PM