Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

7 Pages  1 2 3 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

> Guide - Filters for your camera lenses

views
     
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:27 AM, updated 3y ago

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
i notice many people repeating ask about filters, so i will come out with the guide here.

english is not my native language, i started to learn english only 3 years ago, pls feel free to correct my english if i said anything wrong. thank you smile.gif

Work in Progress, others may contribute if you have thing to add smile.gif credit will be given.

i will fill it up with photos later, i prefer to use my (or yours) photo then picking up from the internet. of coz, if you have photo to share? please let me know too!


photo i am looking for, basically is polarizer set, with and without. wink.gif
long exposure for ND post.

sample photo look of Cokin and Tian Ya holder/complete set.

This post has been edited by ieR: Apr 16 2011, 01:58 PM
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:27 AM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
Filters, what are the uses of filter?

Today's filter uses are quiet different from the old film days. the film was sensitive to UV, hence people uses UV filter for their film camera. Today, filters are commonly used to protect your lens. Filter are something i always advise my friend who buys a new lens, to buy filter together, since you have just brought a lens, surely you can haggle more with the shop for the filter. or haggle for free filter~ (that way, you dont have to come to lowyat.net a week later and ask where or which filter is best to get.... or skim on finding the cheapest filter in penang when u stay at johor...and get back fired. sorry for my sarcasm.)

Digital sensor today will not benefit what-so-ever from an UV filter, because today's Digital Camera comes with a Low Pass (Anti Aliasing) filter, that have UV and IR filtering behavior so that the digital sensor wont pick up any UV/IR spectrum/color. So its noticeable that, china made/imitation/cheap filter would simply print "UV" filter and market it as its use for filtering UV. oppose to Branded filter who spend money in research a proper coating, will sell their filter as Multi Coating *MC filters (which will have UV coating to protect ur eye from seeing through the OVF. some will brand it as UV-MC.) to Enhance the color for digital sensor pickup, and reduction of color aberration, Flare and Ghosting effect

*add-on, was told that UV filter will reduce CA in photo, confirmed, but, higher end camera (crop flagship and FF series) has built in "CA" reduction in the AI-CHIP (digic/expeed/bionz) base on their original lens profile.

Attached Image
Now, Why do we need a Filter?
to me, my answer is simple, i shoot in a dirty environment, dust, oil, water, wine, ice cream gets on my lens, then i would use any available cloth and wipe it. (i bet u wont use lenspen to wipe icecream off the lens!) so, i would risking getting my expensive lens first/front optic/element to scratches!. so what happens is, i get a filter, put it in front, if it get dirty, just wipe it, if it get scratch badly, i just change a new filter, anyway, the filter is around fraction of the lens price. so basically it prevent risking your lens's optic from scratch during cleaning/wiping.

it is cheaper to replace a filter then to replace a lens.

so, if you are the careless, or working in environment that dirt/moist get to ur lens often, get a filter so you can just wipe it off without worry you would damage the lens's coating.

*was told canon L lens require a filter to complete the Weather Sealing, need confirmation on this.

so, What are the differences between the price range the filters offer?
filter can range from rm30, to rm500+
each penny spend on them, is each penny of quality. although this said, be really careful and do some research on the filters before you become a victim of Conned by the shop, how they mark up a china filter to rm450*. *will add a price list bottom of this post.

like i mention that i wipe my filter with any cloth available, a rm50 filter get scratch easily, and i would need to replace it one years later when it get badly scratch, so 5 years, 5 filter, 5 x rm50 = rm250. the scratch might not be physical glass scratch, it would be coating (i wonder rm50 filter really has any coating or not, or just glass?) being reduce*
so i buy only good quality branded one, those with claims of very tough scratch resistant, and after 3 years of using, hardly any scratch.

another thing is, people like to go to the beach and shoot, or islands, the sea water will corrode "eat"(please help me get a better word) the coating due to the acidic or something

difference between filter offer by the same brand? why with so many different pricing?
Some brand will release several 'model/series' of their filter, mainly to widen their market. let learn to see the few main difference on those filter
for example, a major brand, the B+W, has a cheaper F-Pro series, then the slightly more expensive XS-PRO (XS as Xtra Slim).... the XS-Pro CPL series is really scary slim and be used with UWA (which i dont get it since UWA doesnt work well with CPL in first place, missed-marketing?) but the MRC filters will work perfectly UWA

......Filter Size
This is very important, do not end up buying a filter and realize it do not fit your lens when you got home. You can check the size of your lens filter thread from the lens itself, look for the Ø logo. Ø55 means 55mm, Ø67 means 67mm. Get the right filter size thread for your lens.
[img][/img] image no longer available

......Filter Thickness
the common one are the 4-5mm thickness ring, which has double thread, which mean, u can screw one another filter in front of it.

then there is the 2.5-3mm thickness ring, which either has single thread or double thread, which are slimmer, and mainly use for ultra wide angle lens to prevent vignetting. and these slim filter are usually more expensive (no idea why when less material is used)

so if its for a tele-lens, the normal 4-5mm filter will do, because it will not cause vignetting on tele lenses.

Price Listing, the pricelist mostly are taken from shashinki or yamiya (average pricing, not the cheapest). some people may lower offer somewhere else, but the price listed here will be the average, so if you get price ranging 'near' it, just get it, because even the shop has rental to pay, a family to feed. smile.gif

(imcomplete)

B+W F-Pro 62mm=RM223, 67mm=RM265, 77mm=RM, 77mmCPL=RM
B+W XS-Pro 62mm=RM268, 67mm=RM318, 77mm=RM328, 77mmCPL=RM
Hoya Pro1 62mm=RM158, 67mm=RM175, 77mm=RM215, 77mmCPL=RM348
Hoya HD 62mm=RM208, 67mm=RM225, 77mm=RM275, 77mmCPL= RM378
Kenko

This post has been edited by ieR: Dec 19 2014, 10:33 PM
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:28 AM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
post3: brands/quality of filter, and value of it for your lenses.


after a while of thinking, thought for food. initially i plan to close this post, as i afraid will spike a 'fanboy/brand' war among filters. i know there are a lot Big Loyal Die Hard Hoya/B+W/tiffen/kenko fans. (i dislike kenko tongue.gif). But, this is still very important to help some new user to understand more about Good Filter vs Cheaper Filter.

As i mention earlier, the Filter is merely for 'protection' it doesnt requires a expensive Bullet Proof Filter, but just a filter to protect the front element/lens glass from expose to icecream, wine, sand or snow. But....

good filter make a big differences, yes. less talk, picture moarrrr.....

Attached Image
this is the reason i switched to B+W
*if you see the picture closely, u see reflection of the light above on the opposite side of the picture, the 'light' was bounce inside the lens between the lens and filter that causes it. those who shoot lenscape usually will get city light appear on top of the sky, the reason is because of that cheap filter.

if someone willing to borrow me a 55mm Hoya HD filter, i would redo the comparison VS B+W Fpro.

Careful with Marketing

recently, i saw over 5 unknown branding, claiming that they are Pro1D coating, aka, re-badge from kenko who manufacture them. they are really a lot cheaper (rm50 for 67mm!, super slim 3mm filter). but the worst fear is always there, i had a friend complain how terrible a XXXXX brand lens QC is so bad, but after some test, i took out his filter and found out that filter causes the lens to frontfocus by a whole 15mm! so becareful with cheapo claimed good filter.

(even octopus germany(which is from china) is terrible filter! and kenko to me, is losing its ground as proper filter manufacturer.


so, if one ask, 'is it worth to invest on $$$ filter on a XXX lens?'

this is a very personal opinion,

if your lens is less then rm500, skip the filter, rm50 filter will make it worst.
if your lens is over 500 to 1k, its even harder to decide. if you can afford a good filter, why not? else dont bother with cheaper alternative, it will worsen the IQ.
BUT if you are not a pixel peeper, and since u are shooting under 10mp (or set to medium size), Hoya Pro1D is best choice.
but if your lens is over 1k, just grab a HoyaHD or B+W if u can afford.

This post has been edited by ieR: Aug 15 2011, 08:46 PM
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:30 AM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
Polarizer Filter

time to time, i meet friendly new photography came to me and ask, "i heard CPL is good, i wanted to get one, which is good?" then i asked back, "do you even know what CPL it?" "Nope" he answered "i just know that its good, everyone is talking bout it."

i find this scenario is true for a lot of people. they do not know what are they getting, just because other photographer said its good. they will be wasting their money buying a CPL (they arent cheap) and do not know the use of it! like a close friend of mine brought one, to shoot long exposure because the boss of the shop said that filter will slow down the shutter. its was half right, CPL will slow down your shutter speed, but not enough to recommend it as long exposure uses (refer to ND filter).

alright, now, What is Polarizer Filter?

its a optic filter that will filter out a certain color(wavelength) by the angle of the filter (rotate-able).

usually people use them for reduce or eliminate reflection. water, window, etc. indirectly, it can help darken the sky because it remove reflection from the vapour/clouds/haze in the sky, it also will help boost the saturation naturally, also by removing unwanted reflection.
so its good for shooting at beach(clearer view of bikini in water), landscape(better balance sky to ground eV), and black&white shooter as boosted saturation mean more contrast-y photo. vegetation (plants) also gain so much green and livelier look.

it wont do much good if used indoor, except for eliminate reflection. because polarizer is known to cut out certain amount of light too, causing it to have slower shutter then usual (it takes up 1-2 stop of light). so be careful when using polarizer indoor.

SAMPLE
Cutting off reflection off water surface.
Attached Image

how do they really work?
well, i am kinda lazy and not a scientist to explain there, but You can read it up bout "Brewster's Angel" in wiki.

How do i use them?
simple, just screw on to your lens filter thread, then seeing through the OVF, turn the filter (yes, they are rotate-able), turn it until your desired result, snap.

so, are there many diff types of Polarizer filter?

there are MANY types mostly use in medical or physic labs, but in photography (and videography) we only have 2.

the Linear polarizer
they are slightly cheaper, but i wont recommend them, because camera AF will not able to function under linear polarizer due to they way it work. but it work perfectly fine with MF because it was design/made during the MF film era!. under some situation, newer DSLR with powerful AF module might struggle to be 'able' to AF but its all out of focus.

* Linear Polarizer will work with Ultra wide angle lenses without problem, aka 16-24mm in FF, or 10-16 in crop.

the Circular polarizer
Circular is the one you should buy, it allow AF to work normally.
but the CPL will have some unpolarized effect on the left hand top corner due to how it works on UWA lenses.


so, it reduce the light into the sensor, but by how much?
i cant really say, it is difference from brand to brand of filters. it also depend of the polarizing angle, vari from half stop to two stop

so, Polarizer works on all lens?
it should work, but due to the nature of how polarizer works, when use CPL on UWA lens (wider then 24mm in FF, and 16mm in APS-C or 12mm in M43rd) will result the left side top corner will not be polarized. so if u shoot a photo with a whole sky, u get darken blue sky with nice cloud except the top left corner will be bright... but this will not happen to (non circular)PL filters.
* some lens design will cause the whole photo un-evenly polarized, google "Ultra Wide Angle Polarizer Effect" and u can get lots of sample photo

so its depend on your say if the photo turn out topleft corner is not polarized, if the photo is acceptable or not.

but a warning for UWA shooting, CPL filter will not be fully effective/working.

This post has been edited by ieR: Dec 19 2014, 10:38 PM
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:31 AM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
post5: type of filter
ND / GND and the FADER ND.

now, we all know, but setting small enough the aperture (large F/# number) by chance, u get very small light going into your sensor, to gain long shutter speed. but, what if, i wanted to shoot F1.4 are board daylight? or strobe a photo with 1/250ss sync limit?

we grab ND filters.

what are ND filters?
ND filter are a 'dark' piece of filter that cuts down light evenly. Neutral Density, like the name, will reduce light of all color, equally, without changing the saturation/hue of the color rendition. so, No, it will not end up with a more 'red'er color cast photo, unless, its a cheap made in china coated ND filter.

so, what are the uses?
its is subjective base on what you need it for? since there are so many 'level' of ND available for different application.

i) you can use it to do a long shutter on daytime, depending on application, say, a dream effect of waterfall.
Attached Image
(6stop) ND8+4+2 (cokin)filter was used with a GND4 to cut off the top part. that why the tree looks darker

ii) you wanted to get the shallow DOF out of F1.4 under the sun, but turn out overexposed, use ND to cut down the amount of light going into the sensor.

how do we scale ND filters? *chart taken from wikipedia
link removed.

How about GND? *coming really soon.
GND is a little diff by its application and look. the ND is apply gradient-ly over the filter. top to bottom. what it uses is to reduce light on one side of the frame. usually used to reduce the strong bright sky.

This post has been edited by ieR: Apr 23 2016, 06:46 PM
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:34 AM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
post6: type of rarely used filter - some of then are used in films, because they do not have photoshop to adjust the colors, or edit.

IR filter
IR filters. the hardest topic, try google IR photo, there are plenty around, they are special effect, tree leaves are white like covered in snows, ground is weird yellow in color like in autumns...

there are many IR filter in the market, they are sold base on the light cutoff range. the common one we see are the 720nm

650nm - retain a number of yellow, hence some skintone color can be retain
720nm - yellow is cut off, mostly red, and hint of blue
860nm - yellow and blue are cut off, very red... dark red
920nm - mostly black and white, most visible colors are cut off.

there are some problem with IR photography, due to our sensor has a build in IR filter, the sensor will requires longer time to gather the IR light, hence IR photography(with lens filter) requires long exposure, some up to a minute... hence this style is not very popular...

another IR photography is modding the camera but not sure if i wanted to write infra red modification information here, because there are many conman mod-artist trying to make money out of IR modification, if i release all the information, i will put them out of business

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


effect filter, star filter, soft filter.




WB correction filter. i have a red filter at home, given by my grandfather, its used during the film era, where the films are stuck with one WB until u swap the film out. so to fix the WB issue, we attach color filter to contra the WB environment.

Red filter is used to contra Florescent lighting
Blur filter is used to contra Tungsten Lighting

but since we are entering digital age, i bet even some photographer today doesnt even know what is film is like.... the Digital Era Camera has Auto WB build in, and with powerful tools, 2-3 click and repair any whitebalance photo.


color cast filter i admit i have weak knowledge on this, but this is a topic any serious Black and White shooter must at least read once online.
there are still many hardcore B&W shooter still uses color filter to enchance their b&w images....


but again, since digital era, there are many way to do this. this is a BAD video i did not long ago to answer and assist some new b&w shooter (for the recent FB craze B+W 5 day challenge)



This post has been edited by ieR: Dec 19 2014, 11:32 PM
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:36 AM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
there is another type of filter that uses a holder, that hold on 'square' filter, some professional prefer these filter over the screw on filter because they only have to make a 1 time investment and able to use it on any of their lenses (provided it meet the condition).

one of the common branded brand is the Cokin from France. and Expensive Lee Filters from England, or Rosco from USA. and our asia best friend, China with TianYa filters

Please visit their website for more detailed information if you are seriously planning to buy.

My Guide here is just a brief explanation of what are Holder-type Filter, base on Cokin system.

Why Do Professional pick Holder type filters?
it is simple, because
i) buying a good ND8 for each of your lens with different filter thread is expensive. with holder, u just need 1 set
ii) you cant adjust the height of GND filter with screw type. holder type can.
iii) its easy to detact and attach back to allow focusing to work (having a 10 stop filter in front cutting off all light will make focus impossible)

from Cokin, they have 4-series.

A-series - mainly for compact camera
P-series - mainly for APS-C and FullFrame camera (up to 82mm filter thread, so bigma can use too)
Z-series - mainly for Medium format camera, it also allow a limited use for UWA on FF.
X-series - mainly for Large format, or those "movie" production camera.

the common used are the P-series, so, China, PRO in imitation, replicate the P-series by a company named Tian Ya which are sold at 1/2 of the price.
the Pseries by cokin, has 2 type of holder, the normal one, and the extra slim* one which allow slighter wider shooting angle. the difference is that, the normal one can hold up to 4 filter, while the slim one up to 2**

if you are on DSLR, you can ignore the A-series, they are meant for compact camera.
and you can safely ignore the Z/X series if you are not Wide Angle shooter, and the Z/X series cost twice to triple the amount of investment compare to P series.

*not sure if they still produce the slim holder.
**cant recall was it 2 or 1 only. will check it out again tonight.

i have sold my cokin and upgraded to Lee Filters, (yea they nearly cost me an arm) under spoiler for more info
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


the Holder design consist of 3 component.

i) Adapter Ring - the cheapest accessories, this is the one that screw onto the lens's filter thread
ii) Filter Holder - a little braket that holds the filter, and clipped on the adapter ring. it can be turned too
iii) Filter(s) - all the ND, GND, PL, CPL, Star filters... just slot into the filter holder.
user posted image
first one show the adapter ring, then the holder, the last one is 2 type of filter, rotate-able or adjustable plate.

so when you have several different lens thread size, all you need is to get the adapter ring with the right size.

so, how many filter are there to choose from?
rewrite:
it is divided to the size of the filter
Cokin P, Tian Ya, uses the same size filter 80mm, so can easily use them with the same holder.

Lee filter are in the 100mm size filter. so u can find other 100mm filters and use on them... like Singh-Ray RGND is famous and used on Lee system often.

here is my Lee filter + RGND in action...
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


another thing they have in Lee is the Big Stopper, stopping 10 stop of lights...
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



so, how much are them?
please refer to www.shashinki.com or any other local online store. i'm not from KL, so i am not so sure which shop to suggest to visit, if you guys has any suggestion, throw them at me, so i can list them here.

Another person you can refer to is LiewWK, he is a professional Landscapist (landscape artist)... he bulk order and sell the Lee filters system. you can easily google his name, and just say edpaul introduced you.

FAQ for Holder System:
1) can i have a screw filter on my lens, then only with the Adapter Ring later on the screw filter?
Yes, it doesn't matter. but it might reduce the widest angle you can shoot by 1-2mm. (eg: 24mm to 26mm)
2) there is a GAP between the lens and filters, so dust easily drop on it, will it affect the IQ of the image?
as long as u are not shooting with F46, focusing on 20cm, those dust wont show up. simple answer, it wont affect the image much.
3)
4)
5)

This post has been edited by ieR: Dec 19 2014, 11:39 PM
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:37 AM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
post8: FAQ.


This post has been edited by ieR: Apr 15 2011, 11:40 AM
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:38 AM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
post9: reserved
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:39 AM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
post 10: reserved.
Irbean
post Apr 15 2011, 11:19 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
141 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


nice..waiting for additional info's..
0168257061
post Apr 15 2011, 11:22 PM

EimiFukada
********
All Stars
14,223 posts

Joined: Jul 2007
From: JAVABUS



im sceptical about few "branded filters" like zeiss compared to b+w and hoya hd biggrin.gif
TSieR
post Apr 15 2011, 11:39 PM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
QUOTE(0168257061 @ Apr 15 2011, 11:22 PM)
im sceptical about few "branded filters" like zeiss compared to b+w and hoya hd biggrin.gif
*
you win some, you lose some.

zeiss coating is not that high scratch resistance. boohoo sad.gif

but it is VERY clear compare to HD and B+W (i was shock when i saw the test result!)

provided it is very clear, the coating boost natural contrast of the picture, and a little saturation, which confuse me how it able to be so clear in the first place.
the contrast is merely several % (no way i can say how much) but a theory said that, the phase detect system detect base on contrast, having the filter boosting the contrast, it helps the AF. i myself also damn skeptic bout this! hahaha

but the T* coating is amazing. even national geography L shooter several has switch to zeiss lenses (for the T* coating)

again, you win some, you lose some....

HD claimed to be knock proof(break proof) while B+W isnt.

i have not tested B+W vs HD clearness, will buy a HD filter soon to test it out.

i personally prefer B+W, no reason why, just... preferred it. (b+w use brass ring, it doesnt bind with ur lens filter aluminum thread)
0168257061
post Apr 16 2011, 12:28 AM

EimiFukada
********
All Stars
14,223 posts

Joined: Jul 2007
From: JAVABUS



who dare to test B+W filter as shown in the hoya hd test video ? tongue.gif
TSieR
post Apr 16 2011, 12:30 AM

~Cursed Member~
Group Icon
Elite
3,928 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Incheon, Korea.. currently in Miri, Soviet Sarawak
hahaha, u pay half, i pay half, i dare! lol

and i will video it down....

This post has been edited by ieR: Apr 16 2011, 12:30 AM
MPIK
post Apr 16 2011, 05:29 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,746 posts

Joined: Dec 2007

Nice Thread.. thanks TS for the efforts.

I think if somebody could post some info on what is the difference between original vs fake filters and how do you identify them?
iXora.ix
post Apr 16 2011, 09:17 PM

scoot scoot
******
Senior Member
1,407 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: Pandan Jaya



QUOTE(0168257061 @ Apr 16 2011, 12:28 AM)
who dare to test B+W filter as shown in the hoya hd test video ? tongue.gif
*
just wait until my b+w went scratch XD

but why I love the hoya hd? although I already had b+w, heehee
xtrasher_kingx
post May 29 2011, 02:44 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
183 posts

Joined: May 2010
really good thread TS.. thanks for the effort
Jeffrey1987
post May 29 2011, 02:47 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,661 posts

Joined: Apr 2009


I'm aiming for CPL filter. Any recommendations? smile.gif
elainor
post May 29 2011, 03:59 PM

Snap snap snap
******
Senior Member
1,090 posts

Joined: Apr 2010
From: Oggie Oggie Oggie!!!
anticipating the gnd filter section! kudos TS!

7 Pages  1 2 3 > » Top
 

Switch to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0628sec    2.18    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 21st February 2020 - 10:05 PM