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Spanish Clubs FC Barcelona, Messi won UEFA Best Player Award!

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TSmatyrze
post Feb 18 2011, 08:55 PM, updated 15y ago

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History

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This post has been edited by matyrze: Aug 26 2011, 02:03 AM
TSmatyrze
post Feb 18 2011, 08:56 PM

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The Crest

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TSmatyrze
post Feb 18 2011, 08:57 PM

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The Stadium



CampNou

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Architects:Francesc Mitjans Mir? and Josep Soteras Mauri

Collaboration: Lorenzo Garc?a Barb?n

Constructed :1954-1957

Official name :Estadi del FC Barcelona

Height :48 metres

Capacity:120,000(biggest stadium in Europe)

Surface area:55,000 square metres (250 metres long and 220 metres wide)

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Miniestadi


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Inauguration date: 23 September 1982

Capacity: 15,276 espectators

Pitch dimensions: 103 x 65 m.

Complementary Instalations: two training pitches

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Barca Territory

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TSmatyrze
post Feb 18 2011, 08:58 PM

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Player

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Manager: Josep "Pep" Guardiola i Sala

Assistant manager: Tito Vilanova

Goalkeeping coach: Carles Busquets

Fitness coach: Lorenzo Buenaventura / Paco Seirul•lo / Aureli Altamira / Francesc Cos

Doctors: Ricard Pruna / Daniel Medina

Representative: Carles Naval

Podiatrist: Martín Rueda

Physiotherapists: Roger Gironès / Jaume Munill / Emili Ricart / Juanjo Brau

Scouting and Tactical Analysis: Domènec Torrent, Carles Planchart and Jordi Roura

Kit Managers: Chema Corbella / José Antonio Ibarz / Gabriel Galan

Player Liaison: Pepe Costa



Kit

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TSmatyrze
post Feb 18 2011, 08:59 PM

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The date of the game cannot be considered definite until the kick off time (GMT+1) is given.

The date and time of games will be decided approximately ten days before.



August

SSC        Sat 14 Aug          3:1 Sevilla FC v FC Barcelona (20' Ibrahimovic)

SSC        Sat 21 Aug          4:0 FC Barcelona  v Sevilla FC (12' og Konko, 24' 42' 91' Messi)

LFP        Sun 29 Aug          0:3  Racing v FC Barcelona (2' Messi, 31' A.Iniesta, 61' David Villa)



September

LFP        Sun 12 Sep          0:2        FC Barcelona    v            Hercules           

UCL        Tue 14 Sep          5:1                  FC Barcelona    -            Panathinaikos (22' 45' Messi, 33' David Villa, 78' Pedro, 93' Dani Alves) 

LFP        Sun 19 Sep          1:2                  At.Madrid          -            FC Barcelona (13' Messi, 32' Pique)       

LFP        Wed 22 Sep          1:0 FC Barcelona - Sporting Gijón (48' David Villa)

LFP        Sun 26 Sep        1:3  Athletic Club - FC Barcelona                (55' Keita, 74' Xavi, 92' S.Busquets )

UCL        Wed 29 Sep      1:1 Rubin Kazan - FC Barcelona (60'p David Villa)



October

LFP        Sun 03 Oct          1:1  FC Barcelona - RCD Mallorca (21' Messi)

LFP        Sun 17 Oct          2:1 FC Barcelona - Valencia CF                (47' A.Iniesta, 63' Puyol)

UCL        Wed 20 Oct        2:0 FC Barcelona -    Kobenhavn (19' 92' Messi)         

LFP        Sun 24 Oct          0:2  Zaragoza            -            FC Barcelona (42' 66' Messi)           

CDR        Tue 27 Oct          0:2          Cueta  -            FC Barcelona (16' Maxwell, 25' Pedro)

LFP        Sun 31 Oct          5:0  FC Barcelona    -            Sevilla FC (4' 64' Messi, 24' 90' David Villa , 52' Dani Alves)



November

UCL        Tue 02 Nov        1:1                      Kobenhavn        -            FC Barcelona (31' Messi) 

LFP        Sun 07 Nov        1:3  Getafe CF          -            FC Barcelona (23' Messi, 35' David Villa , 65' Pedro) 

CDR        Tue 11 Nov        5:1          FC Barcelona - Cueta    (2' Nolito, 7' Bartra, 50' Pedro, 63' Bojan, 68' Messi)

LFP        Sun 14 Nov        3:1  FC Barcelona    -            Villarreal CF (22' David Villa, 58' 83' Messi)       

LFP        Sun 21 Nov        0:8  UD Almería        -            FC Barcelona (17' 37' 67' Messi,  19' Iniesta, 27'og Acasiete, 35' Pedro, 62' 73' Bojan) 

UCL        Wed 24 Nov      0:3                  Panathinaikos  -            FC Barcelona (27' 69' Pedro, 62' Messi)               

LFP        Sun 28 Nov        5:0  FC Barcelona    -            Real Madrid (10' Xavi, 18' Pedro, 55' 58' David Villa, 91' Jeffren)



December

LFP        Sun 05 Dec        0:3  Osasuna              -            FC Barcelona (26' Pedro, 65' 83'p Messi)             

UCL        Tue 07 Dec        2:0                  FC Barcelona    -            Rubin Kazan (51' Fontas, 82' Vazquez)

LFP        Sun 12 Dec        5:0  FC Barcelona    -            R.Sociedad (9' David Villa, 33' Iniesta, 47' 87' 90' Bojan)     

LFP        Sat 18 Dec        1:5 RCD Espanyol          -            FC Barcelona (19' 60' Pedro, 30' Xavi, 76' 84'David Villa)

CDR        Tue 21 Dec        0:0  FC Barcelona - Athletic Bilbao



January

LFP        Sun 02 Jan          2:1      FC Barcelona    -            Levante UD (47' 59' Pedro)         

CDR        Wed 05 Jan          1:1 Athletic Bilbao - FC Barcelona (75' Abidal) 

LFP        Sun 09 Jan          0:4      Deportivo          -            FC Barcelona (26' David Villa, 52' Messi, 80' A.Iniesta, 81' Pedro)

CDR        Wed 12 Jan          5:0 FC Barcelona              - R.Betis (44' 62' 73' Messi, 76' Pedro, 83'Keita)

LFP        Sun 16 Jan          4:1  FC Barcelona    -            Málaga CF          (8' A.Iniesta, 18' 74' David Villa, 36'Pedro)

CDR      Wed 19 Jan          1:3 R.Betis - FC Barcelona (38'Messi)

LFP        Sun 23 Jan          3:0    FC Barcelona    -            Racing (2' Pedro, 33'p Messi, 56' A.Iniesta)   

CDR        Wed 26 Jan          5:0    FC Barcelona    -            UD Almeria (9' 16' Messi, 11' David Villa, 30' Pedro, 88' Keita) 

LFP        Sun 30 Jan          0:3 Hercules            -            FC Barcelona (43' Pedro (87', 89' Messi



February

LFP        Sun 06 Feb        3:0 FC Barcelona    -            At.Madrid (17', 28', 79' Messi)         

LFP        Sun 13 Feb        1:1 Sporting Gijón  -            FC Barcelona (80' David Villa)

UCL        Thu 17 Feb          2:1 Arsenal  -            FC Barcelona (26' David Villa)

LFP        Sun 20 Feb        2:1FC Barcelona    -            Athletic Club    (4' David Villa 78' Messi) 

LFP        Sun 27 Feb        0:3 RCD Mallorca    -            FC Barcelona (38' Messi 57' David Villa 66' Pedro)



March

LFP        Wed 02 Mar      0:1 Valencia CF        -            FC Barcelona (76' Messi)

UCL        Thu 17 Feb        3:1 Barcelona - Arsenal (45+3', 71' Messi  69 Xavi)

LFP        Sun 06 Mar        1:0 FC Barcelona    -            Zaragoza (43' Keita)           

LFP        Sun 13 Mar        1:1 Sevilla FC            -            FC Barcelona (30' Bojan) 

LFP        Sun 20 Mar        2:1 FC Barcelona    -            Getafe CF (16' Dani Alves 49' Bojan)



April

LFP        Sun 03 Apr        --:--      Villarreal CF      -            FC Barcelona   

LFP        Sun 10 Apr        --:--      FC Barcelona    -            UD Almería     

LFP        Sun 17 Apr        --:--      Real Madrid      -            FC Barcelona   

LFP        Sun 24 Apr        --:--      FC Barcelona    -            Osasuna



May

LFP        Sun 01 May        --:--      R.Sociedad        -            FC Barcelona   

LFP        Sun 08 May        --:--      FC Barcelona    -            RCD Espanyol 

LFP        Wed 11 May      --:--      Levante UD      -            FC Barcelona   

LFP        Sun 15 May        --:--      FC Barcelona    -            Deportivo         

LFP        Sun 22 May        --:--      Málaga CF          -            FC Barcelona



The Scorer



Champions League

8 Messi

3 Pedro

3 David Villa

1 Dani Alves

1 Xavi

1 Fontas

1 Vazquez



La Liga

27 Messi

17 David Villa

13 Pedro

7 Iniesta

5 Bojan

3 Xavi

2 Dani Alves

2 Keita

1 Pique

1 Jeffren

1 Busquets

1 Puyol



Copa Del Rey

7 Messi

4 Pedro

2 Keita

1 Bojan

1 Nolito

1 Bartra

1 David Villa

1 Maxwell

1 Abidal



Overall

45 Messi

21 David Villa

20 Pedro

7 Iniesta

6 Bojan

4 Xavi

4 Keita

3 Dani Alves

1 Afellay

1 Adriano

1 Thiago

1 Pique

1 Jeffren

1 Busquets

1 Puyol

1 Maxwell

1 Fontas

1 Milito

1 Vazquez

1 Abidal

1 Nolito

1 Bartra

This post has been edited by matyrze: Mar 25 2011, 08:15 PM
TSmatyrze
post Feb 18 2011, 09:00 PM

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Honour



3 Champions League

1991-92, 2005-06, 2008-09



4 European Cup Winners Cup


1978-79, 1981-82, 1988-89, 1996-97



3 Fair Play Cup

1957-58, 1959-60, 1965-66



3 European Super Cup


1992-93, 1997-98, 2009-10



20 Spanish League Championship

1928-29, 1944-45, 1947-48, 1948-49, 1951-52, 1952-53, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1973-74, 1984-85, 1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1993-94,1997-98, 1998-99, 2004-05, 2005-06, 2008-09, 2009-10



25 Copa del Rey

1909-10, 1911-12, 1912-13, 1919-20, 1921-22, 1924-25, 1925-26, 1927-28, 1941-42, 1950-51, 1951-52, 1952-53, 1956-57, 1958-59, 1962-63, 1967-68, 1970-71, 1977-78, 1980-81, 1982-83, 1987-88, 1989-90, 1996-97, 1997-98, 2008-09



9 Supercopa d'Espanya

1983-84, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1994-95, 1996-97, 2005-06, 2006-07, 2009-10, 2010-11



2 Copa Llatina

1982-83, 1985-86



2 Copa de la Liga

1948-49, 1951-52



22 Campionat de Catalunya

1901-1902, 1904-05, 1908-09, 1909-10, 1910-11, 1912-13, 1915-16, 1918-19, 1919-20, 1920-21, 1921-22, 1923-24, 1924-25, 1925-26, 1926-27, 1927-28, 1929-30, 1930-31, 1931-32, 1934-35, 1935-36, 1937-38



6 Copa Catalunya

1990-91, 1992-93, 1999-00, 2003-04, 2004-05, 2006-07



Record



Record attendance at the Camp Nou 120,000

120,000
people for FC Barcelona v Juventus, first leg of the European Cup quarter final (5/03/1986).



Only team to have appeared in every year of European competition

Since they first started in 1955.



Team with most Cup Winners Cup titles

4
1979, 1982, 1989 and 1997.



Team with most Fairs Cup titles

3
1958, 1960 and 1966. Also won the Grand Final in 1971 to decide who should keep the trophy outright.



Team with most Spanish Cup titles

24




Consecutive League titles

4
1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93 and 1993-94.



League with most goals scored

102
1996-97 102 goals in 42 matches.



League with fewest goals scored

32
1939-40 32 goals in 22 matches.



League with fewest goals conceded

18
1968-69 18 goals in 30 matches.



League with most goals conceded

66
1941-42 66 goals in 26 matches.



Biggest win in any competition

0-18
Macaya Cup: Tarragona 0 - FC Barcelona 18 (17-3-1901).



Biggest win a friendly match

1-20
Smilde (Holland) 1 - FC Barcelona 20 (6-8-1992)



Heaviest defeat

12-1
Athletic Club Bilbao 12 - FC Barcelona 1 (8-2-1931), in the 1930-31 Spanish league season.



Longest unbeaten run in official matches

27
games in the 1973-74 season (26 in the League and one in the UEFA Cup), from 3-10-1973 to 21-4-1974.



Longest unbeaten run in League matches

26
games, from the 6th (7-10-1973) to the 31st (21-4-1974) match in the 1973-74 season.



Longest unbeaten run at home in league matches

67
matches, From the 25th match of the 72-73 season (4-3-1973) to the 21st of the 76-77 season (20-2-1977), a total of 66 matches, of which 55 were won and 12 drawn, scoring 155 goals and conceding 37.



Longest winning run in the League

14
games, from the 8th match (22-10-2005) to the 21st (29-1-2006) in the 2005-06 Spanish league season.



Longest winning run in the League (home)

39
games, from the 22nd of the 1957-58 season (16-2-1958) to the 8th of the 1960-61 season (6-11-1960).



Longest scoring run in the League

36
games, from the ninth of the 1942-43 season (21-11-1942) to the 18th of the 1943-44 season (6-2-1944).



Longest scoring run in the League (home)

88
games, from the 22nd of the 1951-52 season (10-2-1952) to the 18th of the 57-58 season (19-1-1958).



Biggest League win (home)

10-1
FC Barcelona 10 - Gimnàstic Tarragona 1 (11/09/1949).



Biggest League win (away)

0-8
Las Palmas 0 - FC Barcelona 8 (25/10/1959).



Biggest wins in European competitions (home)

8-0
FC Barcelona 8 - 0 Apollon Limassol (Cyprus) (Cup Winners Cup. 15/09/1982); FC Barcelona 8 – Matador Púchov 0 (Slovakia) (UEFA Cup. 15/10/2003).



Biggest win in European competitions (away)

0-7
Hapoel Beer Sheva (Israel) 0 - FC Barcelona 7 (UEFA Cup. 12/09/1995).



Most consecutive wins in the European Cup/Champions League

11
In the 2002/03 season.



Longest winning run in official matches

19
games in the 2005-06 season (13 League, 3 Champions League, 2 Copa de Rey and one in the Catalan Cup) between 22-10-2005 and 22-1-2006
TSmatyrze
post Feb 18 2011, 09:00 PM

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Fanlist

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Userbar



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Wallpaper



Download your hero wallpaper, Barca Best Moment and Barca Toon here



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TSmatyrze
post Feb 18 2011, 09:02 PM

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~RESERVED FOR FUTURE USE~
TSmatyrze
post Feb 18 2011, 09:08 PM

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OK guys, you may start posting.

Good luck to Faris21 in his training rclxms.gif rclxms.gif He's been a great TS all these years thumbup.gif thumbup.gif
TSmatyrze
post Feb 18 2011, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(faris21 @ Feb 18 2011, 09:14 PM)
no need to put my name la on tittle, really shy2 cat
so sad i will miss Barca match for 9 month, but the good news is after training i will got couple week rest before start working, since i will get everything free (food, house, uniform) during training for the whole 9 month, i decide to use my 9 month salary to visit Noucamp this December, any member want to join?
*
LOL you must already be familiar with the attention la.

Going to Camp Nou, you maybe can ask myhotgary to accompany you. And make sure both of you post your pics thumbup.gif I miskin liao... cry.gif
TSmatyrze
post Feb 20 2011, 12:21 AM

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QUOTE(uzary @ Feb 19 2011, 08:54 PM)
btw ts, why i dint c affelay name as player n scorer? he did scored against almeria on copa dey ray match right.
*
Thx for reminding wink.gif Actually the fixtures & results are not updated yet. Later I will.



laugh.gif

This post has been edited by matyrze: Feb 20 2011, 12:21 AM
TSmatyrze
post Feb 20 2011, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(myhotgary2 @ Feb 20 2011, 09:00 AM)
bro matyr sure must be thinking : why the hell when faris did it, nobody pointed out the mistakes while when i do exactly the same, people start pointing them out... tongue.gif kidding

btw, good luck bro faris. Look forward to having an inspektor in our thread 9 months later.
*
Because faris is the taiko maa..if we critic him he will call Boixos Nois gangsters and beat us up..

me just noob only cry.gif cry.gif

QUOTE(fwhoam @ Feb 20 2011, 01:49 AM)
Longest winning run in the League

14 games, from the 8th match (22-10-2005) to the 21st (29-1-2006) in the 2005-06 Spanish league season.

I think u should edit this.
It 16 the new record. Spanish league record sumore. rclxm9.gif
*
thumbup.gif thumbup.gif I'm going to do a lot of editing in record section as long as Pep continues as the coach. This team is breaking records into finely shredded pieces notworthy.gif

QUOTE(azerroes @ Feb 20 2011, 09:15 AM)
btw, good luck for the next match against arsenal on next month wink.gif hopefully the proceeding match will regain back the confidence and strike them back in camp nou flex.gif laugh.gif
*
Keeping our players at their highest level of concentration is exactly Pep's specialty. I'm sure we'll bounce back. Furthermore, Puyol is set to return for 2nd leg.

This post has been edited by matyrze: Feb 20 2011, 09:53 AM
TSmatyrze
post Feb 21 2011, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(neohardcore @ Feb 20 2011, 07:33 PM)
is it confirm our capitan, puyol is available for 2nd leg?by the way,TS,update la game pg ni pukul brape..(put more pressure for our new TS.hahahaha)
*
I can't stand pressure bro. Don't pressure2 me mega_shok.gif mega_shok.gif

QUOTE(uzary @ Feb 21 2011, 06:08 AM)
now it seems more n more teams playing parking the bus against us.. really annoying..
*
At this rate, if our team fail to beat teams that play like that, I don't really know whether to say our team was playing bad or not.

Like against Athletic, I think we played really well. It was just that the opponents are so negative, that it is very not football.

If we drew, you'll see the match poll in footytube showing more than half of voters would have voted rubbish/average for Barca, while Messi would have got hundreds of thumbdowns if his rating is more than 6.5. But I really believe we played well.

The same accusation were thrown to La Furia Roja being boring during WC. I think they played well, but each opponent they faced were very negative, either with bus-parking tactics or used some kungfu kicks. It is really annoying indeed.
TSmatyrze
post Feb 22 2011, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(barca96 @ Feb 21 2011, 11:36 PM)
I really don't like the new rumors regarding Wilshere.
I dont know who started it but its going to give us a bad name once again in ENgland.
Im sure it was the press who kick started it.
Last summer, a lot of FAKE news and interviews came out from England.
We dont need anymore bad publicity.
I know that sometimes bad publicity is good but this is definitely not a good one.


The number of their supposedly quotes attributed to Barca players about Cesc make you wonder, how the hell those English press could gain such access to our players? The Sun, Daily Star, etc etc. Xavi in recent interview with Sid Lowe said that he had hardly said anything back then! Sure he said it once or twice, but not THAT frequently.

Just as I thought smile.gif

QUOTE
Jon Miquel Toral will join Arsenal in the summer. Barcelona will receive a transfer fee of 350.000 euros. He is 16 years old.
Good thing is that there is actually a deal with the club.
And the better part is that a more promising youngster whom I've watched a few times on Barca TV already, Sergi Samper, rejected Arsenal.
*
And The Sun reported (exclusively of course laugh.gif ) that Rosell have confronted Arsenal chairmen during recent visit. Yeah, IIRC it was Rosell who Laporta entrusted to handle contract renewal in 2003, coincidentally at the same time when Cesc left. So maybe Rosell has already been hurt since then? laugh.gif

This time Arsenal had to pay us though. Because after Cesc left, we started practicing some kinda agreement with our youngster. I don't know what the agreement is all about, but that agreement forced Arsenal to pay us in millions for Merida case. So yeah I think we should have no problem with this deal.
TSmatyrze
post Feb 22 2011, 08:09 PM

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QUOTE(minority @ Feb 22 2011, 07:10 PM)
The Sun is a shite publication, of course. I won't even wipe my arse with it.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/the-sun-get-t...-starlet/84717/


I found the story about Rosell confronting Arsenal people in The Sun website. When I looked at Toral's pics, I was like.....Isn't that SERGI SAMPER!! Really failed journalism laugh.gif

QUOTE
As for the Merida case, it wasn't Arsenal that was hit with the bill, but Merida. In moving, Merida was considered to be in breach of his personal agreement but not the buying club. The agreements some Barca players sign are effectively binding contracts without pay, so they're not professional yet but are tied down with obligations. This, in a sense, is a legal workaround from the professional contract minimum age which means that Barca can circumvent those restrictions.


Thanks for sharing. Yes in a way this is the measure to protect our interest. Too bad we didn't do it with Cesc and Pique.

Hmm, how the hell did Arsenal scouts miss out on Messi? hmm.gif

QUOTE
http://younggunsblog.co.uk/2011/02/arsenal...rcelonas-toral/

There is a claim that the money for Toral Harper is training allowance, but if I'm honest, unless the clubs themselves put up an official press release, I won't want to speculate as to what the deal actually was and I doubt we will ever really know (unless he turns out to be a massive superstar as well, after which we'll get a torrent of speculation to sift through).
*
To be honest, I haven't heard much of this Toral kid too. In Cadete A team (Toral's batch) the most outstanding names are Pol Ballesté and Sergi Samper. So if one day Toral becomes world class, and Barca fans create noises like what we are doing now, you can accuse us for not seeing his potential earlier. Moreover if Arsenal really pay 350K Euros.

But no, Toral's story is not the same like Cesc case. Not at all.

I just found a Arsenal blog which covered the Cesc situation back in 2003. It didn't provide full story, but at least it provided quotes from El Pais and one of Cesc' national youth coach and some of Barca's efforts to stop Arsenal. I'll compile it later smile.gif
TSmatyrze
post Feb 23 2011, 11:14 AM

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I found a rotting Arsenal-related blog called Arseweb. Apparently the last update was in the middle of 2007. So this is my collection:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


So what can we conclude from this set of articles. I'll make mine, based on my interpretation smile.gif (remember these texts were dated back in 2003).

1) Barca did value Cesc. It was just that at the age of 16 all Barca could offer was sweet talks. Nothing more. He was too young to be thrown into Lion's den (Camp Nou). But Barca did try to find loopholes that favours them to halt the transfer. We had intended to keep him.

2) Did Cesc make his name in Arsenal? As a world class footballer, yes. But as a hugely potential kid? No, it was with Barca. Did Arsenal really made him a playmeker like bro Nos pointed out? No, he has already been seen as another Guardiola-esque player even while training with Barca. And as Melendez pointed out, he had this maturity that belied his age. Was that Arsenal's, or Barca's work?

3) This Barca DNA thingy has started waaay before Laporta's endless rants. Again, these texts are in 2003 smile.gif

What these articles can't proof:

1) There's no guarantee that Barca could groom him into world class player...

but...

there's no way to indicate Barca couldn't make Cesc a great player either. Sure with Arsenal Cesc at 18 he has got many games under his belt. But is that the only way to make a youngster better? Xavi played regularly when Guardiola was hit by injury nightmare. He was 19. Iniesta played integral part in the first team when he turned 20. Pedro and Busquets rose to fame when they're past 20. Cesc could become great player by following similar path too.

-------------------------------------------------

QUOTE(minority @ Feb 22 2011, 09:09 PM)
Check out my first link above as well, with quotes from Carles Rexach who talked about the brick wall blocking junior players that Cesc would've seen at the time. When Arsenal was promising a lot of first team appearances, it's hard to compete. I doubt Cesc would have had played nearly as many games as he did in Arsenal when he was 18.
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Charly Rexach only pointed out fears of our youngsters, but not our commitment to groom them. AFAIR, we promoted youngsters nearly every single season. These Dutch people he was talking about, Rijkaard promoted Messi, Oleguer and Thiago Motta, Van Gaal promoted Gabri Garcia, Xavi, and Puyol. Another foreigner, Radomir Antic, promoted Oscar Lopez and Valdes, the latter was given plenty of chance, although he was very wobbly and nervous. So actually where was this brick wall exactly?

So it makes you wonder, did The Mail fabricated the interview too? laugh.gif OK, maybe I'm not playing fair here tongue.gif
TSmatyrze
post Feb 23 2011, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(barca96 @ Feb 23 2011, 11:27 AM)
You should post those excerpts on the Arsenal thread.haha
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Oh thx. rclxms.gif Nah I'd just keep this in here. I don't want to be accused of trolling. Its a sin here in the internet.


Added on February 23, 2011, 12:07 pmOh and to minority, I would like to add. If you're going to stand by your argument that Barca didn't do enough, just by judging the final outcome, you have to know that you are oversimplifying the situation. You just take the easiest route for your case, but in actuality you couldn't even give any evidence showing 'Barca didn't do enough'.

This post has been edited by matyrze: Feb 23 2011, 12:07 PM
TSmatyrze
post Feb 23 2011, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(minority @ Feb 23 2011, 06:55 PM)
I agree. I've never said otherwise. Barca wanted to keep him (but how much they wanted to keep him is another matter).


You can never prove this can you?

You have to show what options Barca had, and which options Barca didn't take.

QUOTE
Oversimplified. Every year, I read up on dozens upon dozens of hugely potential kids. Some of these names are now in the Football League or Segunda Division.

If you follow youth development long enough you would realise that no matter how big the potential, every year of a player's life is vital for his development. Slip up for even one year and you would end up a mediocre player at best, a non-pro at worst (the vast majority don't turn pro, instead going into other careers). The years (nearly 7 years now) spent at Arsenal are just as important as the years spent at Arsenal.


You meant "The years spent at Arsenal are just as important as the years spent at Barcelona"?

I didn't deny this. I just said that with Barca, Cesc already showed his potential, and his potential hardly went unnoticed.

QUOTE
You might argue that, seeing as that he would not have gotten as much game time at Barcelona than he would at Arsenal, Cesc Fabregas would not be good as he is today if he had stayed in Barcelona.


Now how can you be bold enough to say that? I couldn't see, by debuting with the first team late, we would slow down his progress. Our experience with our youngster have been contrary to this popular believe. Grooming a young player is not all about promoting him early.

QUOTE
Never cared about this 'DNA' arbitrary bullshit.


Well for that line I replied to your believe that we just create the noise after Cesc found his fame.

QUOTE
Agreed. Never said otherwise.

But Cesc obviously thought that getting vastly more gametime was a good thing for him.
I agree again, but when you're 16 and you're driven, you want every opportunity you can get. World-class players who become a first-teamer fully only in the 20s are very rare. Would you take the gamble and pray that despite not getting much game time before you turn 20, you could eventually bloom in your 20s? That's a big risk to take. I would rather get my developmental opportunities in my teens, rather than take the risk and hoping I get game time in my 20s.
How many players come through La Masia every year? How many get lots of runs out?

It's not whether any players are promoted or not, is what are the chances of getting promoted. The statistics are simple, let me explain:

Say Barca promotes 5 youth players, but in their batch there were 40 players. That's a 5/40 (12.5%) chance

Say Arsenal promotes 3 youth players, but in their batch there were 10 players. That's a 3/10 (30%) chance.

And that was pretty much the situation as Cesc saw it. Wenger practically guaranteed him first-team opportunities and fulfilled that by making him a first-team player by 18. He saw much, much less chances in Barca.


All this prove that we had no capacity to groom Cesc? All this prove we have no intention as big as Arsene?

Cesc was definitely on top of the pile, in our youth system. That's obvious. If we think its the right time to promote somebody from La Masia, it would be him, since he was on top of the pile.

On the bold part, well I've given examples of Barca's experience with our playmaker. Iniesta and Xavi made it a bit later than Cesc did. They are world class, no? To add, Guardiola also was active in Cruyff's Dream Team when he was 20.

QUOTE
Take into account more lenient Spanish laws that allow Barca to hoard more youth players and thus increasing competition and you can begin to understand where they're coming from.

Commitment must be followed by actions and the fact is, at the time, there was a ceiling that was quite hard to penetrate due to massive competition.


How could we give a debut to 16 year old kid? How could we show our act, when Arsenal poached him away so much earlier than we intended? The moment we thought of promoting him, he's gone.

QUOTE
No. Even The Sun has a degree of journalistic integrity. Journalism in the West is vastly different. Viewpoints may be skewed, but faking quotes would result in legal action or sanctions from the ombudsman.
I don't wish to be pedantic, but Cesc not staying in Barcelona IS evidence that "enough" wasn't done.

Ponder on this statement:

"Barcelona did enough to convince Cesc to stay. Cesc did not stay"

Are those two sentences not contradictory? Of course they are, because if Barce did enough, Cesc would stay.

Put it this way, if I get enough points in my exam, I will get an A, if I don't get enough points, I won't get an A. Barca didn't do enough to convince Cesc, he didn't stay. That is the evidence.

You can keep arguing that Barca did "enough", but Cesc left.
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Arsenal offered the professional contract, while we couldn't.

We can promise him first team football, but that was just sweet promise. In reality he had to wait more than a year for his first professional contract.

We encountered the dead end mate. And Arsenal exploited it.

Oh, I think you said it in one of your posts that Arsenal have good relationship with the French about this poaching issue, I got this from the first post of Arseweb:

QUOTE
It's a loophole which Arsenal have certainly been accused of over-exploiting in the past (especially by French clubs).


You know, this is in 2003. I think you've missed more than you'd probably realized smile.gif


Added on February 23, 2011, 11:12 pmTotalbarca have translated an article in light of Toral's transfer. The highlight of the article:

QUOTE
The only way to avoid the migration of a canterano is by offering him a sum of money to offset any offer, but the amounts put up by many English clubs are just preposterous that the club is just not prepared to match. Barca canteranos earns a small €250 per year allowance, and the first [non-binding youth] contract they sign when they reach 16 entitles them the customary €10,000 per year salary, some 25 to 35 times lower than what they would get at Arsenal. In cases such as these, Barca chooses to try to plead with them to think of their connection with the club or they just have to let the boy leave.

Read more: http://www.totalbarca.com/2011/analysis/an.../#ixzz1EnLwwRUE
The English offered to much money that Barca couldn't compete. Not because barca is stingy or anything, but because Barca only could offer youth scholarship, while Arsenal offered professional contract. Wage structure comed in mind.

This is an advantage for English side.

This post has been edited by matyrze: Feb 23 2011, 11:12 PM
TSmatyrze
post Feb 25 2011, 12:41 PM

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LOL this is getting tiresome. sweat.gif

OK minority, I was just trying to point out that Barca actually did value Cesc highly, contrary to your believe that we didn't. The question whether we were able to give him first team experience is ridiculous and pointless, since there's no way to prove it either way. I also showed that we had tried to keep him, contrary to Arsenal fans believed that we just let him walked away. I think I've proven my case, with aid by a Arsenal blog no less.

I don't know how to counter your argument about Barca didn't try 'hard enough', because I'm sure that you don't even know what options Barca had, and which options Barca didn't take. But we all can see that Toral and Samper scenarios represented different outcome to our efforts. In Samper case, because we presented our sporting plans for him, he pledged to stay with us and rejected Arsenal's more lucrative contract. Toral on the other hand rejected us, because he thought English style suits him better. But BOTH situations showed what Barca can ultimately do, although the outcome depends on how the kids think. In other word, Barca could try as hard as possible, but the outcome also depend on the kid's mentality. Back to Cesc's case, Arsenal even offered his father job and house, so in Cesc' case, family matter may have made Cesc's decision smoother. Barca couldn't do anything.

--------------------------------------------

Now that Cesc has left us, we think Arsenal should pay us, as you guys kindly did for Merida and Toral transfers.

And then you guys point out that we also could pluck youngsters from all around the world for free, but I'm not sure you guys, know which kid, apart from Messi, we poached, at least from outside of Spain.

I've told you about our dealing with Mataro for Cesc.

I can't prove my case for Pedro and Jeffren case though, because the article I read about them seems lost. But actually, other Spanish clubs also 'poached' from us. Miquel, who you guys plucked from Cornella iinm, was also plucked from La Masia. But we didn't mind, because of the level playing field I have suggested. We could always resigned him back, and pay some compensation if we should. Same goes to Jeffren. When we signed him, Tenerife could always resigned him back. This thing among Spanish clubs can go the other way around, because the level playing field the Spanish law permitted them.

Now about Messi. I picked up a line from your post in previous thread:

QUOTE
But Newell could have done something (like go ahead and pay his cost), like Barca could have guaranteed Cesc more first-team chances. Newell did not want to throw Messi away, just like Barca did not want to throw Cesc away.


Come on, where did you get this? Another assumption of yours? The fact is Newell's thought Messi medical bill was astronomical, and they were no longer interested to pay it. Messi's family even forced to make do without the support for several months while looking for a new club, as Newell's cut off the fund. If you want evidence, I will try looking for Messi documentary in youtube. I couldn't find it just now.
TSmatyrze
post Feb 25 2011, 07:53 PM

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QUOTE(lowyatter @ Feb 25 2011, 02:05 PM)
Why should Arsenal pay anything to Barcelona for Cesc NOW? They already paid 2.8m pounds in 03/04 season.

http://transfermarkt.co.uk/en/cesc-f%C3%A0...ieler_8806.html
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Do you have news piece confirming this deal and the amount?

Its hard to look for evidence for transfer 8 years ago, and I was lucky to found the Arseweb blog. So, neither Arseweb blog nor UEFA confirmed of any payment made. I don't know if its available in Arsenal website.

QUOTE(Corrupted Spirits @ Feb 25 2011, 03:58 PM)
I'm not sure about these but I read it at one of the blogs,
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I can't find the names in the list of our youth players.

Check out here.

As we can see in the list, it didn't mentioned the nationality of the kids. So I'm not sure which list your 'source' had glanced through.

Yes there're some Cameroonian kids, brought over by Eto'o's program. I heard Barca also have a Greek kid. But mostly our youth setup are consisting players from Catalonia/Spain.

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