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 Bigger sport rim, lower power?, Should I change to 18 inch?

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acbc
post Feb 9 2011, 09:27 AM

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Yesterday, I finally threw away the cat box and did a 2.5" straight pipe from turbo... and wow, truck feels lighter and accelerate easily now. Will be burning tires later to office. The cost? RM 350, 5 hours at the workshop and 2 teh tarik.


Added on February 9, 2011, 6:08 pmFulamak... after decat, truck can accelerate up to 190kph easily and engine feels lighter. Need to find better brake pads now.

This post has been edited by acbc: Feb 9 2011, 06:08 PM
victor87
post Feb 10 2011, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(Lineage @ Feb 8 2011, 05:59 PM)
How does it look like? install at which part?

Sorry for asking noob question, but I really dont know it  wink.gif
*
Depends on what tuning kit, got alot of type. From low-end to high end models. Tuning Kit = Piggyback wink.gif

The most common and value-for-power tuning kit plug into the common-rail injector sensor, so the tuning box can took control on the common-rail system. (basic tuning kit)

Some mid end kit needs to plug into the common-rail injector, MAF sensor... To control the common-rail and air flow. (Mid end tuning kit)

High end did everyting above, with boost cut, involves alot of sensor like TPS, MAP to calculate more accurate common-rail spraying.. Best is they can be tune by laptop. (High end piggyback)

Depends on what you need eventually. If you're looking for extra 15~30% of power from stock, a common-rail tuning kit will do the job, just fine !

If you're looking for heavy mods, plenty of cash to throw in for bigger turbochargers, bigger intercooler, exhaust & intake system, go for those high end piggyback, easily double the horsepower from stock*)

*Depends on what model.

I just fitted one unit of Vector Tuning Kit last night for one of the client.
Feedback i got from him after testing the 2.5 Hilux with him is :
"Gear 1 and Gear 2 like rocket, doesn't feel like my car anymore"
"Throttle was alot smoother and feels so much lighter to rev, it now revs more like a petrol engine."
"Gear 4 on 60kph and the torque is still pushing, totally different driving style"

Ahhhh, he's one of the forummer here too. He was recommend the Vector Tuning Kit by his friend, and he came to me on this forum.. laugh.gif

PM him and ask for his feedback, his nickname is ELM0

QUOTE(acbc @ Feb 9 2011, 09:27 AM)
Yesterday, I finally threw away the cat box and did a 2.5" straight pipe from turbo... and wow, truck feels lighter and accelerate easily now. Will be burning tires later to office. The cost? RM 350, 5 hours at the workshop and 2 teh tarik.


Added on February 9, 2011, 6:08 pmFulamak... after decat, truck can accelerate up to 190kph easily and engine feels lighter. Need to find better brake pads now.
*
On what truck bro??? Triton ?? laugh.gif It is always the cat restricting all the true power of a turbo-diesel.... brows.gif

Where did you do the decatting? Workmanship ok bro?

This post has been edited by victor87: Feb 10 2011, 12:46 PM
acbc
post Feb 10 2011, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(victor87 @ Feb 10 2011, 12:44 PM)
On what truck bro??? Triton ??  laugh.gif It is always the cat restricting all the true power of a turbo-diesel....  brows.gif

Where did you do the decatting? Workmanship ok bro?
*
Triton 2.5 A/T. Got it done at the exhaust workshop nearby my office in Subang Bestari. RM 350 to replace down pipe behind turbo till cat box. I also opt for additional RM 150 to replace the pipe after the cat with full stainless steel. Workmanship is superb.

The clogged cat box.
Attached Image

The heat shields, will be using some back.
Attached Image

Stock down pipe and cat box removed.
Attached Image

Prepping the stainless steel pipes.
Attached Image

Almost done, just need to weld the down pipe. Stock pipe after cat is 2" only. I replaced with 2.5" from turbo to all the way back. Good enough for A/T.
Attached Image

This is a complete replacement, over 3' in length. Minimize the joins. Cost is around RM 500.
Attached Image

TIG welding in progress.
Attached Image

Next project is full stainless steel I/C pipes.

netmatrix2
post Feb 10 2011, 01:10 PM

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Hi. I am in the mist to change from a 16inch rim to a 18inch rim for a Mitsubishi Triton 2.5. I heard from a rim dealer telling me that:

1. Once I changed to 18inch (tyre 285/60/18), my 4wd triton will not feel as powerful as when it is with the original 16inch (tyre 245/70/16) is this true!

A: Partially true. Because the width of the tire contact patch has increased and u have rolling resistance. But if u have lighter wheel and tire combo, the difference would be very little. The only drawback of light wheels is cost.

2. 285/60/18 tyre will make tyre pop out, making the car look slightly ugly (not align with the body frame)

B: Not true. Of course u have to buy wheels with correct offset. The extended wheels over body would only happen if u buy negative offset wheels. If u buy positive offset wheels, that would not happen. But in the end, if u could buy wheels with same offset with original wheels, then u would have have brake or body clearance issues.

Pls share your opinion as I am undecided on the choices. I like ganas rim, but not if it's at the expense of sacrificing power..



acbc
post Feb 10 2011, 01:10 PM

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Here are the pics below the truck and inside the engine bay... I prefer my mods to be stealthy.

Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image

This post has been edited by acbc: Feb 10 2011, 01:24 PM
acbc
post Feb 10 2011, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(netmatrix2 @ Feb 10 2011, 01:10 PM)
Hi. I am in the mist to change from a 16inch rim to a 18inch rim for a Mitsubishi Triton 2.5. I heard from a rim dealer telling me that:

1. Once I changed to 18inch (tyre 285/60/18), my 4wd triton will not feel as powerful as when it is with the original 16inch (tyre 245/70/16) is this true!

A: Partially true. Because the width of the tire contact patch has increased and u have rolling resistance. But if u have lighter wheel and tire combo, the difference would be very little. The only drawback of light wheels is cost.

2. 285/60/18 tyre will make tyre pop out, making the car look slightly ugly (not align with the body frame)

B: Not true. Of course u have to buy wheels with correct offset. The extended wheels over body would only happen if u buy negative offset wheels. If u buy positive offset wheels, that would not happen. But in the end, if u could buy wheels with same offset with original wheels, then u would have have brake or body clearance issues.

Pls share your opinion as I am undecided on the choices. I like ganas rim, but not if it's at the expense of sacrificing power..
*
Better u trade in stock 16" rims for something more ganas but 16" also. Saw some around RM 1.5k but much lighter than stock. I borrowed my bro's Titan Racing negative offset rims with Falken S/TZ 265/16/70 tires. Truck look more fierce but I hate the rim design. Will spray it later.

Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image

This post has been edited by acbc: Feb 10 2011, 01:22 PM
ELM0
post Feb 10 2011, 07:23 PM

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erm bro any idea how much it will cost to do a full set 3" exhaust system??

acbc:
you recycle any parts of your OEM exhaust ?? or all totally new 3" to 2.5" until rear tip??

wonder why H-performance sell the 3" exhaust set so expensive = ="
acbc
post Feb 10 2011, 08:31 PM

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QUOTE(ELM0 @ Feb 10 2011, 07:23 PM)
erm bro any idea how much it will cost to do a full set 3" exhaust system??

acbc:
you recycle any parts of your OEM exhaust ?? or all totally new 3" to 2.5" until rear tip??

wonder why H-performance sell the 3" exhaust set so expensive = ="
*
Yes. I prefer the OEM mount because it is a perfect fit since Day 1. Better to recycle it since I have no use for the original cat and pipes anyway. For auto, best to keep 2.5" from turbo to rear muffler. If manual, u can opt for 3".

In the OEM fitting, it is consisted of 3 parts.

1. Down pipe
2. Cat
3. Extension pipe

Now, for RM 350, it will replace item 1 to 2. For additional RM 150, u will replace item 1 to 3. I went for the latter to reduce multiple joins.
ELM0
post Feb 10 2011, 10:05 PM

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btw where is that shop located ??maybe i go pay a visit inquire for hilux T_T
btw what stainless steel that shop using?? grade 304??

This post has been edited by ELM0: Feb 10 2011, 10:06 PM
acbc
post Feb 10 2011, 10:09 PM

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It is in Subang Bestari somewhere in U5 Shah Alam. If u are coming from Subang airport, just drive all the way straight till u need a Caltex on your left. In front is a traffic light. After traffic, keep left and u will pass 2 left turns. Turn left at the 2nd turn and the shop is on your right. Shop name is Din Exhauz.

Price is cheap because this not some Sunway workshop but owner is very helpful. He himself experiment on his Frontier.
noprob
post Feb 11 2011, 10:46 AM

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Poodlepaddly,
whats the total damage like ?
TSPoodlepaddly
post Feb 11 2011, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(netmatrix2 @ Feb 10 2011, 01:10 PM)
1. Once I changed to 18inch (tyre 285/60/18), my 4wd triton will not feel as powerful as when it is with the original 16inch (tyre 245/70/16) is this true!

A: Partially true. Because the width of the tire contact patch has increased and u have rolling resistance. But if u have lighter wheel and tire combo, the difference would be very little. The only drawback of light wheels is cost.

2. 285/60/18 tyre will make tyre pop out, making the car look slightly ugly (not align with the body frame)

B: Not true. Of course u have to buy wheels with correct offset. The extended wheels over body would only happen if u buy negative offset wheels. If u buy positive offset wheels, that would not happen. But in the end, if u could buy wheels with same offset with original wheels, then u would have have brake or body clearance issues.
*
Thanks bro for the info! thumbup.gif Did some survey before purchasing the 18 inch rim. So far i do feel the difference. But i guess i can live with it. (thinking of vector kit now whistling.gif )

QUOTE(acbc @ Feb 10 2011, 01:22 PM)
Better u trade in stock 16" rims for something more ganas but 16" also. Saw some around RM 1.5k but much lighter than stock. I borrowed my bro's Titan Racing negative offset rims with Falken S/TZ 265/16/70 tires. Truck look more fierce but I hate the rim design. Will spray it later.

Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image
*
Yes, my friend recommended 16 inch to 16 inch too. But one tyre dealer told me this and it changed my mind.. "Once a 20 inch rim truck pass by you, you sure cannot tahan one looking at the same 16 inch one." lol... sweat.gif And then one day while i was washing my triton i saw one 20 inch rim Triton. He told me he changed from 16 to 16, then to 18, and now 20.. << mush be a sport rim fan sweat.gif So i decided to take up the 18 inch sport rim as the final decision. laugh.gif

QUOTE(noprob @ Feb 11 2011, 10:46 AM)
Poodlepaddly,
whats the total damage like ?
*
Damage involved? Need to but a new wallet because the old one gotten a big hole inside + a bit higher blood pressure. About RM2500 for the rim, RM680 X 4 for each roadstone tyres. Alignment and balancing FOC. Total cost RM5220 but i further nego lower slightly tongue.gif I traded in my old tyre for 800 but i kept my stock rims....

This post has been edited by Poodlepaddly: Feb 11 2011, 01:46 PM
acbc
post Feb 11 2011, 11:39 PM

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End of the day... it depends on what u want... my truck is heavily abused because it is a work truck. I sometimes have to drive fast to jump over a pothole or speed bump. The landing is rough but satisfying because u can leave a bunch of Wiralution Ah Bengs behind u (when they try to over take).

I rather take 15" -44 offset if possible. Unfortunately, since budget do not permit, had to live with the borrowed rims for a while.
Wilson13B
post Feb 11 2011, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(victor87 @ Jan 28 2011, 02:03 AM)
Bro, i am not joking. We all know diesel engine runs with Air Filter. Huge difference bro? Why not u get over my workshop and i show u the difference between K&N filter with my stock filter with my stock MAF sensor?

Huge difference? Like how? faster acceleration like 1-2 sec off the stock? For me, huge difference, NO. Better air flow = Yes, but useless if your MAF still allowing the same air flow setup to be flowed in.

Before fitting an K&N filter, power delivery was smooth and eagerly to rev until redline.

After fitting K&N, power delivery was so poor. 800rpm > 2k = no pull at all, and it consume more time to reach 2k rpm for my turbo to boost, once it reach 2k rpm, the boost came and it will hit the redline like normal did ! I was like you back then, refuse to believe. Tried resetting the ECU by disconnecting the battery for 15 minutes (but i left it for a few hours). Clean the stock MAF sensor.. And all what i've did is futile, it's still the same until i remove the K&N and replace back with my stock filter.

Most of the diesel nowadays runs on strict MAF sensors from vary manufacturer like Bosch,Pierburgh,Hitachi and etc.. so putting a high flow or free flow won't work much because it's the MAF sensor controlling the air flow. It's all the same on all commonrail diesel that runs on MAF. But mine run like this, still don't believe? Get over here and test drive mine and i'll prove you so wrong ! I even sent an complain to K&N, guess what they don't even dare to reply my mail at all after a second reply from me !

Try taking off the MAF sensor from any commonrail diesel engine, and see if the engine will rev.

I, myself of course know that diesel engine run on high compression, that is why diesel tends to have better FC than petrol engines, and lower redline compare to petrol engines.

Yes, air is important in diesel engine, but fuel is important too ! But since commonrail engine has enough pressure in injecting fuel to the engine, what those tuner need is trick the commonrail sensor to inject more fuel.

Thus that's why tuning kit / tuning box is introduce to nowadays commonrail engine, what they did is override the ECU reading on the MAF sensors and Commonrail sensor. They trick on them to suck more air and inject more fuel, hence faster acceleration, more torque and more smoke.

Black smoke coming out from diesel = tuner problem? Depends actually, if tuning is done right and no damage on the injector, PCV valves and turbo, IT SHOULD SMOKE more than stock. That's indicating sufficient of air and fuel.

Black smoke on turbodiesel may be symptoms of having clogged PCV valve, faulty MAF sensor, faulty injector and faulty turbo actuator/wastegate. These are the major problem. Also, not replacing the diesel filter for long time will cause black smoke on your diesels too !

All of my tuned turbodiesel smoke and they smoke ALOT if you did an hard acceleration from standstill !

p/s: not everyone will go and tune their stock ecu to run rich / lean... There's no need to ! It's completely different with petrol engine, so stop comparing ! On diesel engine, it's all air and fuel matters !!

Commonrail diesel nowadays run on EGR. Exhaust gas > EGR > Turbo > Engine. (Not happening on your Pajero since you don't run on EGR)

I understand the working concept of wastegate / actuator, hence i don't need to waste my time explaining here.

Diesel cars with extractor? Bro, i'm not joking and i found non of them in my Rover 75 CDTi, ISUZU DMAX 3.0 Ddi ITEQ, Rexton RX290 and my previous Isuzu Rodeo.
It's call exhaust manifold if you're talking about diesel engines, not extractor which u find on petrol engines. Dieselhead mod their manifold probably due to upgrading their turbo !

In case you don't catch my words, here's the pic for your ref:
user posted image

Extractor on petrol engine:
user posted image

If i'm not a diesel-head, i wouldn't have 3 commonrail in my car pouch right now.

So far one of my commonrail is up to 75% mod. Air intake mod to allow more air to flow in easily, tuning kit, replace stock Bosch MAF with Pierburgh, replace uprated PCV valve, decatted exhaust, EGR removed and installed a Bypass, uprated o-rings for the intercooler, aftermarket Jetex high flow air filter (order along with new MAF sensor and tuning kit). I did it all myself. It's a commonrail anyway wink.gif
I'm not proving i'm a pro or anything, as i'm still learning from all the sifus oversea. Talking about modern commonrail diesel?  laugh.gif 
I noticed u owned a old mechanical fuel pump Pajero, which is not commonrail.  If that's the case, you might be right in certain point, because i'm speaking of commonrail engine here.. Commonrail vs not commonrail, now that's huge difference as they are completely different technology.. Like those diesel forklift we did, difference is they don't have turbo.
*
Agree with u,K&N tend to let the engine suck more air thus made the air moving slower then the stock system so the boost will came later than with the stock system wink.gif

Pajero does have EGR "Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve" but for Diesel most of tuner just blank this off as this will recirculate exhaust gas back to combustion chamber and make it dirty and not so efficient,the function just to lower the C02 and NoX value in the exhaust gas wink.gif

Extractor or Manifold they are same thing bro.....just different place they call it different name like in America they call accelerator as gas pedal and England called it as Accelerator....allthrough it's the same thing wink.gif

AND don't forget that Diesel does have NA version too wink.gif

Yes u are right,i owned a Pajero 2.8 Turbo diesel AND another NEW Toyota Hilux 2.5 ....Bro,i wanna ask u.... Hilux engine is a Commonrail or not ar?
victor87
post Feb 12 2011, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(Wilson13B @ Feb 11 2011, 11:52 PM)
Agree with u,K&N tend to let the engine suck more air thus made the air moving slower then the stock system so the boost will came later than with the stock system  wink.gif

Pajero does have EGR "Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve" but for Diesel most of tuner just blank this off as this will recirculate exhaust gas back to combustion chamber and make it dirty and not so efficient,the function just to lower the C02 and NoX value in the exhaust gas  wink.gif

Extractor or Manifold they are same thing bro.....just different place they call it different name like in America they call accelerator as gas pedal and England called it as Accelerator....allthrough it's the same thing  wink.gif

AND don't forget that Diesel does have NA version too  wink.gif

Yes u are right,i owned a Pajero 2.8 Turbo diesel AND another NEW Toyota Hilux 2.5 ....Bro,i wanna ask u.... Hilux engine is a Commonrail or not ar?
*
Yes, it's a commonrail engine.
I removed my EGR and install a bypass, better low end power since that.. Cleaning them is useless, after 1 week, they turn blackish and sticky again doh.gif
Diesel engine used in some vehicle and forklift is NA, overhauling a few now in my workshop...

People called it manifold in diesel, because when u tell them Extractor they will show u shocking.gif this kind of face.

Cheers !
SpikeTwo
post Feb 12 2011, 12:44 PM

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nice wheels bro acbc.
i always liked negative offset wheels on 4x4. looks mean and offroad style.

ELM0
post Feb 12 2011, 02:05 PM

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hmm guys like the ride to look mean and offroad style but when u ask ur gf or girl friends is it nice? they will tell u ...looks ugly T_T

"K&N tend to let the engine suck more air thus made the air moving slower then the stock system so the boost will came later than with the stock system "
( erm then whats the point of changing stock air filter to K&N??)

wonder how much does it take the rock the commonrail to gain G force pulling power

This post has been edited by ELM0: Feb 12 2011, 02:06 PM
victor87
post Feb 12 2011, 05:56 PM

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QUOTE(ELM0 @ Feb 12 2011, 02:05 PM)
hmm guys like the ride to look mean and offroad style but when u ask ur gf or girl friends is it nice? they will tell u ...looks ugly T_T

"K&N tend to let the engine suck more air thus made the air moving slower then the stock system so the boost will came later than with the stock system "
( erm then whats the point of changing stock air filter to K&N??)

wonder how much does it take the rock the commonrail to gain G force pulling power
*
Get a 3.0 XD

Not true about that k&n statement made by him. It's all about the sensitivity of the maf sensors. bosch ones can be very sensitive..
SpikeTwo
post Feb 12 2011, 06:17 PM

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QUOTE(ELM0 @ Feb 12 2011, 02:05 PM)
hmm guys like the ride to look mean and offroad style but when u ask ur gf or girl friends is it nice? they will tell u ...looks ugly T_T

"K&N tend to let the engine suck more air thus made the air moving slower then the stock system so the boost will came later than with the stock system "
( erm then whats the point of changing stock air filter to K&N??)

wonder how much does it take the rock the commonrail to gain G force pulling power
*
real men don't care about girls opinion in cars. laugh.gif
i will mod my triton like a monster truck. still thinking which model to get while saving up some dough. hehe...
ELM0
post Feb 14 2011, 08:10 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeTwo @ Feb 12 2011, 06:17 PM)
real men don't care about girls opinion in cars.  laugh.gif
i will mod my triton like a monster truck. still thinking which model to get while saving up some dough. hehe...
*
well....pretty girl will end up not sitting your monster ride haha
maybe your side the girls dont mind , but my side the girls mind very much
some of them went crazy and scared of riding my previous ride so got to change to hilux haha




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