Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed
6 Pages  1 2 3 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 The Worst Crime a Footballer can Commit?, Punished for expressing a POV?

views
     
TSCityBluePrint
post Jan 14 2011, 02:49 PM, updated 15y ago

New Member
*
Junior Member
29 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
I thought this is a great thread to discuss & I think is timely to address it in every football forum.


QUOTE
Why the worst crime a player can commit is not cheating or injuring another pro, but rather expressing a point of view?




The fans, football pundits & every Jackass, Dicks & Ah Kows are allowed to expressed their POVs. Why can't the Players?

Here is an article for your reference

By Darren Lewis

Published 12:19 12/01/11

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/co...icle671271.html

QUOTE
It seems that, in this industry, it is better to lie, dive and prosper than to be honest and be vilified.
It seems also that football is hell-bent on its most important commodity, the players, knowing their place and not having a voice.
When they do speak, it has to be cliches and sanitised nonsense, which is why so many people are surprised when a player actually has an articulate, intelligent view on any given subject.
There are far more astute footballers out there than people would care to realise or accept. The trouble is, for some reason it suits our purposes to believe players are thick.
And it seems we prefer it to remain that way.
Which is why Clark Carlisle is regarded as Clark Kent, just because he speaks well on a variety of issues and does okay on Countdown.

Arsenal's Theo Walcott knew exactly what he was doing when he admitted to diving the other day against Leeds. He was putting his hands up to something that has been the scourge of football for years and was basically trying to be honest.
And yet he was mullered by fans and pundits - some of whom called for the FA to charge him with cheating, for goodness' sake.

Walcott didn't get anything out of his dive, so he didn't benefit from it. But that wasn't enough for the critics, who demanded he was hung, drawn and quartered.

And yet 24 hours later, Dimitar Berbatov, who went down in instalments under challenge from Danny Agger, insisted afterwards: "It wasn't a dive. I'm not like that."
And that was seemingly that.

What's more, ITV slammed Berbatov for going down too easily and yet still awarded him the Man of the Match award at the end of the game. Go figure.

The dysfunctional family of football likes what it knows. It can cope with that.
Anything else and it gets its knickers in a twist.
Which is why there has been such a furore over Twitter.

Ryan Babel retweeted a quite funny mocked-up picture of referee Howard Webb in a United shirt after feeling aggrieved at the penalty decision that cost Liverpool their place in the FA Cup.
The howls of protest and condemnation went on long into Sunday night with, again, fans and pundits calling for Babel to be gutted like a fish.
And yet what had he really done wrong? Was what he did worse than Neil Warnock calling El Hadji Diouf a 'sewer rat' in a post match interview?

Was it worse than Clint Hill appearing to threaten Diouf by saying in a tweet: "That c*** will get what's coming to him"?
Or keeper Paddy Kenny tweeting: "That **** Diouf will get it one day"?
You know and I know that Diouf was bang out of order with his treatment of Jamie Mackie, who had broken his leg in QPR's FA Cup defeat to Blackburn last weekend.
But there was something far more sinister about the thoughts committed to Twitter by the Rangers players than about anything Babel had done.

And just on Babel, why have the FA charged him for what he has tweeted but not Manchester United's Darren Fletcher, who chased and pushed Webb in the game between United and Arsenal last month?
The reason? Because football seems not to want players to have a point of view.

Pundits have them, presenters have them, fans have them, Uncle Tom Cobley can have them. But the most important people in the game, the players, don't. Or can't. And that cannot be the case.

What would you, as a fan, rather have - dull pronouncements on the pass for the goal and how any given player just wants to take one game at a time? Comments put through the PR department that emerge as pure as the driven snow? Or anger, frustration and alternative views within the boundaries of what is acceptable?



Or am I too simplistic about the politics of football?
I'll start first
Players, no matter how thick or dense they are, are in most instances able to give 'first witness account'.
If Walcott says he dove, can an 'incompetent' referee or FA official states otherwise?
OTH Berba denied but then would you believe him?

OK Your turn to discuss next.

Please keep it civil & as usual follow forum rules!

This post has been edited by CityBluePrint: Jan 14 2011, 02:51 PM
Sheep319
post Jan 14 2011, 02:50 PM

how do i post
*******
Senior Member
6,364 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Soviet Sarawak



that Ryan Babel incident was the first time the FA charged on such thing. to be honest though, that kind of punishment to Ryan Babel wasn't really necessary and this shows how the FA is really bad at handling such situation.


SGSuser
post Jan 14 2011, 02:59 PM

In your way
*******
Senior Member
2,449 posts

Joined: Jul 2010
From: 4.2105° N, 101.9758° E


FA usually let normal criticisms slide, like the one babel tweet about webb before the photo should be ok...then he go post the photo pulak...footballers or managers cant really say any ref is taking sides(in this case was webb), becoz it indirectly means FA is choosing sides too as it was the FA who appointed the webb for the match

This post has been edited by SGSuser: Jan 14 2011, 02:59 PM
Zer0 c00L
post Jan 14 2011, 03:14 PM

i haz hammer!
*******
Senior Member
3,510 posts

Joined: Feb 2005


In all honesty, I'm disgusted that the FA takes such a serious stance into small matters like this (at least to me it is),granted Babel is also guilty for this but isn't incidents like this small matter compared to for example letting a certain Nigel de Jong go around breaking people's legs and injuring fellow professionals and walk away Scot-free?

or maybe I'm just bitter...
nando
post Jan 14 2011, 03:19 PM

Was Nando Morientes, Nando Torres, now is Nandos Chicken
******
Senior Member
1,650 posts

Joined: Mar 2005


Worst crime is planning to go out to a match to hurt your opponent...

a high profiled case previously....when the victim was down, the fella even shouted at him and voiced his pleasuure......some more it came out in his autobiography..
Duke Red
post Jan 14 2011, 03:24 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
6,112 posts

Joined: Sep 2006
From: Earth


The article makes a whole lot of sense. I think that authorities in general are facing issues dealing with social media, simply because they have no control over what's said. If you take in consideration that by and large, you have "Freedom of Expression" (Article 10), then expressing ones thoughts over social media isn't wrong. If the picture was published in the media, then you could sue for defamation but its up to the court to decide where the burden of proof lies. Either way I'm not sure if there is actually a law that governs social media on this. You do get your usual, "your internet posts can get you sued" comments flying about but I can't validate them. All things said and done, I see nothing wrong in making passing statements. In the case of Babel, it isn't as though he made vicious insinuations accompanied by suggestive evidence and like the article says, players and managers have made far more suggesting allegations to the mass media.

If someone stands in the middle of 1 Utama and shouts, "my girlfriend is a whore!", can he get sued for defamation? I think not. Social media is basically someone shouting his thoughts out in the middle of 1 Utama albeit with the aid of a powerful sound wave enchancer.
TSCityBluePrint
post Jan 14 2011, 03:37 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
29 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
Let me be more succinct

Berba is known to dive. Yes he was booked before for diving.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...shois-yard.html

So IMO he is a serial diver. I have posted that in MU thread and have been warned that action will be taken against me if I say anymore negative things about MU players in their thread doh.gif

Anyways most of us (non MU fans) agree that it shouldn't have been a penalty. That includes Liverpool players who are first account witnesses!

My point is that why and that of BABEL (our main protagonist in this thread) too does MU always get the rub of the green i.e. Howard Webb apparently and without hesitation always give MU the ADVANTAGE (in this case a penalty & a Goal as a result) ?
And especially at OT. No?

pyroboy1911
post Jan 14 2011, 03:44 PM

A Great Achievement
*****
Senior Member
950 posts

Joined: Nov 2006
to be fair Babel posted the picture as a Liverpool supporter who is emotional after the match, and not as a player through means of live media or interview, unlike SAF who criticizes the ref and was rightly punished. The issue is very personal and not done under the name of Liverpool Football Club at all. I dont think twitter is under the FA's jurisdiction anyway, and i think the media is partly to blame for this spotlight on the issue. I mean if they dont report it in news, i dont think FA will know what Twitter is in the first place!

If FA starts to intervene with players/managers criticism outside of official matters which FA is directly governing, then they will start installing webcams and microphones in every person's home/dressing room/car etc.
chcher
post Jan 14 2011, 03:45 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
557 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: Kuala Lumpur


On the contrary, shouting that gf comment in public may lead to defamation unless it is VERY clear that it is a joke, (ie the gf was there when it was shouted and laughed etc), since it is a public place and a place where peopl who know the bf and the gf would appear, and that statement would give these friends or public a negative impression of the person defamed and her status in eyes of friends and society would be tarnished and hence suffered damage to her reputation.

Anyway back to Babel's case, its really a tough situation not just with the FA but with alot of other bodies, ie this social media phenomena. It cannot be denied that the social media reaches out to so much more audience - tens of thousands to millions of readers - and the impact can be disastrous if not handled well. The FA have their disciplinary board and rules and one of it is nothing disrespectful or diminishing the image of the referees / FAs should be published in public. One of the factors considered (rightfully or wrongfully) would have been the need to prevent mass flooding of similar messages by others. So sadly Ryan was made a scapegoat in that sense. But on the other hand if nothing was done, and that act is deemed condoned, imagine how many such tweets will appear on players or manager's blog on a weekly or even daily basis. Imagine the pressure on the referees whose faces are on blogs everywhere with not-so-well-received comments and how can they even stand out to the pitch that weekend to officiate a match?

my 2 cents


pyroboy1911
post Jan 14 2011, 03:48 PM

A Great Achievement
*****
Senior Member
950 posts

Joined: Nov 2006
QUOTE(CityBluePrint @ Jan 14 2011, 03:37 PM)
Let me be more succinct

Berba is known to dive. Yes he was booked before for diving.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...shois-yard.html

So IMO he is  a serial diver. I have posted that in MU thread and have been warned that action will be taken against me if I say anymore negative things about MU players in their thread  doh.gif

Anyways most of us (non MU fans) agree that it shouldn't have been a penalty. That includes Liverpool players who are first account witnesses!

My point is that why and that of BABEL (our main protagonist in this thread) too  does MU always get the rub of the green i.e. Howard Webb apparently and without hesitation always give MU the ADVANTAGE (in this case a penalty & a Goal as a result) ?
And especially at OT. No?

*
yes yes he is a serial diver. is that what u want the posters here to say? thats why you create this thread, instead of discussing FA's inconsistent with their decision, including the Babel incident and even Diouf's issue with QPR?

yes he is a serial diver then. End of story on that. Can we go back on the discussion of FA's issue now? rolleyes.gif


Added on January 14, 2011, 3:54 pm
QUOTE(chcher @ Jan 14 2011, 03:45 PM)
On the contrary, shouting that gf comment in public may lead to defamation unless it is VERY clear that it is a joke, (ie the gf was there when it was shouted and laughed etc), since it is a public place and a place where peopl who know the bf and the gf would appear, and that statement would give these friends or public a negative impression of the person defamed and her status in eyes of friends and society would be tarnished and hence suffered damage to her reputation.

Anyway back to Babel's case, its really a tough situation not just with the FA but with alot of other bodies, ie this social media phenomena. It cannot be denied that the social media reaches out to so much more audience - tens of thousands to millions of readers - and the impact can be disastrous if not handled well. The FA have their disciplinary board and rules and one of it is nothing disrespectful or diminishing the image of the referees / FAs should be published in public. One of the factors considered (rightfully or wrongfully) would have been the need to prevent mass flooding of similar messages by others. So sadly Ryan was made a scapegoat in that sense. But on the other hand if nothing was done, and that act is deemed condoned, imagine how many such tweets will appear on players or manager's blog on a weekly or even daily basis. Imagine the pressure on the referees whose faces are on blogs everywhere with not-so-well-received comments and how can they even stand out to the pitch that weekend to officiate a match?

my 2 cents
*
hhmm u got a point. and after all u are in the business of the law, u would have known more about this laugh.gif i guess it is a measure of preventing a pandora box being opened. But does this mean players are denied of their rights as a supporter who are emotional in the net? for example if one of the players are a member of this thread and joined in the banter with other fans, and the FA found that out, then they are in a position to charge that player?

or maybe when they sign a contract with their clubs, there will be FA related clauses which states they are under the law of the FA and as such, have to be toned down with their comments, even on unofficial sources such as twitter and facebook hmm.gif

This post has been edited by pyroboy1911: Jan 14 2011, 03:54 PM
TSCityBluePrint
post Jan 14 2011, 03:57 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
29 posts

Joined: Sep 2009


This post has been edited by CityBluePrint: Jan 14 2011, 04:00 PM
leongtat
post Jan 14 2011, 04:03 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
950 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
hahaha i appreciate what TS try to discuss...but in the end he was so bias with his own thought...

Whether berba dive or not is already a past what we want to discuss here as you had decided to open this thread is about the comment from the player itself...
TSCityBluePrint
post Jan 14 2011, 04:03 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
29 posts

Joined: Sep 2009



Added on January 14, 2011, 4:07 pmFairness & Justice dicatates that not only should I & every football fans should support the exoneration of Babel from the FA charge but that Babel & his fellow footballers should have the freedom to express their POVs.





This post has been edited by CityBluePrint: Jan 14 2011, 04:07 PM
air_mood
post Jan 14 2011, 04:07 PM

Randy Marsh, Guitar Queer-O
*******
Senior Member
4,150 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(pyroboy1911 @ Jan 14 2011, 03:48 PM)
yes yes he is a serial diver. is that what u want the posters here to say? thats why you create this thread, instead of discussing FA's inconsistent with their decision, including the Babel incident and even Diouf's issue with QPR?

yes he is a serial diver then. End of story on that. Can we go back on the discussion of FA's issue now? 
*
Drogba, Ronaldo, Nani , Iniesta, Gerrard, Chamakh are serial divers. Berba is not. TS managed to dig what, one evidence so how does that make it serial? The fact that the peno last week has plenty of opinions split says it all really. It was not as clear cut as it's supposedly is.
Sheep319
post Jan 14 2011, 04:13 PM

how do i post
*******
Senior Member
6,364 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Soviet Sarawak



QUOTE(CityBluePrint @ Jan 14 2011, 04:03 PM)

Added on January 14, 2011, 4:07 pmFairness & Justice dicatates that not only should I & every football fans should support the exoneration of Babel from the FA charge but  that Babel & his fellow footballers should have the freedom to express their POVs.
*
They should. Tell that to the FA.
pyroboy1911
post Jan 14 2011, 04:15 PM

A Great Achievement
*****
Senior Member
950 posts

Joined: Nov 2006
QUOTE(air_mood @ Jan 14 2011, 04:07 PM)
Drogba, Ronaldo, Nani , Iniesta, Gerrard, Chamakh are serial divers. Berba is not. TS managed to dig what, one evidence so how does that make it serial? The fact that the peno last week has plenty of opinions split says it all really. It was not as clear cut as it's supposedly is.
*
Nvm, let TS get what he wants to hear, then we can continue discussing the issue here.
TSCityBluePrint
post Jan 14 2011, 04:17 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
29 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(leongtat @ Jan 14 2011, 04:03 PM)
hahaha i appreciate what TS try to discuss...but in the end he was so bias with his own thought...

Whether berba dive or not is already a past what we want to discuss here as you had decided to open this thread is about the comment from the player itself...
*
au contraire my friend my discussion is why Babel is not allowed to express his POV regarding Webb's ruling. Would it be fair of me to say that there is a bias or selective ruling for and against certain clubs or individuals. Whether its Berba or Nani or Scholes etc. the ruling is up to the FA official. If he is biased or prejudice in his ruling then shouldn't he be singled out when there is a preponderance amount of evidence indicating so

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8...6648615,00.html



Most of you miss or neglect to discuss the 'sinister' twitterings of Neil Warnock & his players. Why no action against them? Yes Diouf is guilty of all thats being said.


Added on January 14, 2011, 4:21 pmLet me be clear I'm in the minority of City fans who think that de Jong is a thug. Thats my solid viewpoint after watching US-Holland friendly

I have discussed that here in this forum & elsewhere. And who was the referee in the de Jong bruce lee kick against Alonso?

This post has been edited by CityBluePrint: Jan 14 2011, 04:21 PM
Duke Red
post Jan 14 2011, 04:22 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
6,112 posts

Joined: Sep 2006
From: Earth


QUOTE(chcher @ Jan 14 2011, 03:45 PM)
On the contrary, shouting that gf comment in public may lead to defamation unless it is VERY clear that it is a joke, (ie the gf was there when it was shouted and laughed etc), since it is a public place and a place where peopl who know the bf and the gf would appear, and that statement would give these friends or public a negative impression of the person defamed and her status in eyes of friends and society would be tarnished and hence suffered damage to her reputation.

Anyway back to Babel's case, its really a tough situation not just with the FA but with alot of other bodies, ie this social media phenomena. It cannot be denied that the social media reaches out to so much more audience - tens of thousands to millions of readers - and the impact can be disastrous if not handled well. The FA have their disciplinary board and rules and one of it is nothing disrespectful or diminishing the image of the referees / FAs should be published in public. One of the factors considered (rightfully or wrongfully) would have been the need to prevent mass flooding of similar messages by others. So sadly Ryan was made a scapegoat in that sense. But on the other hand if nothing was done, and that act is deemed condoned, imagine how many such tweets will appear on players or manager's blog on a weekly or even daily basis. Imagine the pressure on the referees whose faces are on blogs everywhere with not-so-well-received comments and how can they even stand out to the pitch that weekend to officiate a match?

my 2 cents
*
Where does one draw the line between voicing and opinion and making an accusation though?

Rather than taking action, I'd rather they look at prevention. Accusations that a ref is biased usually surface after fans watch replays and the ref was clearly wrong. This in turn can be attributed to FIFAs reluctance to introduce video replays. I'll stop here before I stray any further but you get the gist of it.

For the sake of sticking to the thread title, I'll try to keep this discussion in the context of this incident. If I read you right, you are suggesting that the FA has clamp down on this to set and example. As it is they have been rather inconsistent in dealing with comments or accusations made verbally to the press. This in itself has led to accusations of favouratism practiced by the FA. If they do decide to make an example of Babel, they need to ensure that it is a blanket rule and that they punish any offender, regardless of reputation or status. Or, they can take this as a one-off and deal with each issue as it arises.
air_mood
post Jan 14 2011, 04:24 PM

Randy Marsh, Guitar Queer-O
*******
Senior Member
4,150 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(pyroboy1911 @ Jan 14 2011, 04:15 PM)
Nvm, let TS get what he wants to hear, then we can continue discussing the issue here.
*
Yeah. Because I'm sure that's why the TS is advocating the "free Ryan Babel movement. Because he believes in the freedom of expression. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with Babel being pulled up for expressing an opiniOn about United. No, surely it has nothing to do with that.
pyroboy1911
post Jan 14 2011, 04:32 PM

A Great Achievement
*****
Senior Member
950 posts

Joined: Nov 2006
In regards to Berba's case, the incident is viewed by referee and is deemed a penalty which resulted in a goal, and under the law whatever incident mentioned by the referee in his match report will not he brought up for discussion. Another similar example is England's "goal" against Germany. Referee saw the incident, reported it as a non-goal and is written as such in the match report. Since it is reported, case closed and no overturned can be done, even though the whole world sees it as a goal through video. If the football governing body can step in to overturn decisions by the referee, they are deemed to undermine the authority of the ref.

So I don't see how Babel's incident, which is considered as "defaming officials" (whether FA have such power is another issue), have anything to do with on-field incidents that have been ever present in football for how many decades. If u are saying why FA doesn't investigate the Berba incident but investigate Babel's, I already explained above. If u are not satisfied with such law, write a letter to FA coz bringing it up in LYN won't change a thing.

So What's the real discussion here? If it's about FA's inconsistency for footballing sake, then I am in for discussion. If it's about how MU gets favorism (don't have to hide it anymore, everyone knows that's your agenda here TS), then I will leave coz no unbiased discussion will results from that topic.

6 Pages  1 2 3 > » Top
Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0212sec    1.27    5 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 20th December 2025 - 04:10 PM