I'm currently looking for a reputable responsible breeder for miniature schnauzer in Klang Valley area, if there isnt any, then do help to recommend from out of State. Thanks!

This post is to help reduce puppy mills and unscrupulous breeders out there. Feel free to add breeders name whom you've bought your puppy from and you think he / she is a responsible breeder. This will help others in getting a good puppy of their own and not get cheated by money-minded businessman!

Responsible Breeder :
1) Linggene Kennel : www.linggenekennel.com : Miniature Schnauzer / Toy Poodle / Goldie / Shih Tzu / Pekingese /

i think your topic of your scope can widen to other type of pets breeder as well, eversince u didnt specified in "Reputable Responsible Breeder, List of reputable responsible Breeder". ^^

just my two cents.

errr... you are looking for one, but yet you suggested one... so how did you find out that they are a responsible breeder? and if they are, you have already solved your problem... no?

err....mayb he/she is trying to get a list of good breeder for the people so that other can get the puppies from the good breeders instead of from puppy mill or petshop?

Actually this is really an interesting topic... what determines good?

puppy mills? breeders? responsible breeders?

personally i bought my dog from a pet store out of ignorance (not knowing they were from mills) and the way she bahaved in my arms... totally captures my heart...

but yes while i am ignorant, what determines a breeder (mills and whoever) and a good breeder...

for me, a breeder (regardless of how responsible they are), are just breeders... all of them are in for the money... all of them forced their dogs to breed so that they could sell their offsprings... all of them have no regards to the offspings' parents!

if you truly loved your dogs, could you ever, ever want to separate them from their kids? have you ever imagine your kid being taken away from you after 9 months of carriage and the pain of labor?

i said forced to breed is that (even if you say the pregnancy is unwarranted) when you have a female dog in heat, if you put your male do accessible to the female, you are just encouraging breeding... that in itself is irresponsible family planning unless you already have in mind to sell the offsprings...

lastly if you really really have unwanted pregnancies and can't afford the puppies, why sell them? why not just give them away...

i may be harsh, but i think it is hypocritical to say that one is a resposible breeder if they themselves are in for the money... it is just another way to say, hey i am better than a mill, buy it from me so that i would continue breeding them (probably even opening a pet store when the money is to good to ignore)... and price wise, aren't they just about the same (some reputable breeders charges about 2k for a maltese pup as with some pet stores...)? puppies will continue to capture our hearts and if you say, supporting them is just the lesser of two evils, maybe?... but the sin is the same... anyway it is up to you guys to make that choice...

anyway i really really do not fault anyone buying from anywhere... so if you insist on promoting some breeders, please do continue...

hi, any1 can list out breeder from jb? got no idea where to find..

price is normally a factor when general people look at when getting a pet.
Good genetic line don't come cheap.

Good responsible breeder are hard to come by as most breeders are going for profits and minimizing operating costs.

Passionate hobby breeders who cares for breed standard, genetics and breeding female's health over profits is an even rarer thing in Malaysia,.....

not sure if this is directed to me, but if it is, yes i do agree that good genes doesnt come cheap currently... and yes they might be hobby breeders but what i am going at is the act (of breeding your pets (already bad "forcing" them to breed) and sells them (worse still forcing the offsprings to be taken away from your pets [the parents]) ) and not the after effects...

if they really are hobby breeders, would they ever ever gonna give away their furkids instead of selling them? give chance to others to own a pet with good genes for free (or probably just minimal fee to cover med)?

if they are not willing, what difference are they from money minded millers? it is just some so call self righteousness and if things go their way, would they be the same and be a miller themselves (earning big big bucks if they are not already)? look at some breeders online, they probably sell about 5 - 10 pups a month... go figure... the pet turnaround is probably faster than some pet shops too...

As promoting a preferred breed, yes.
A good hobby breeder would sell/give away pups, request for visitation rights and be open for future enquires on the furkids health .
But i never heard of this happening in Malaysia.

Passionate hobby breeders is not a day job.
Humans without greed exists.

This post has been edited by mecharojak: Nov 22 2010, 03:42 PM

hmm... even if it were to happen, how often can they visit? if you have given just 10 pups, could you guarantee that each of them would be visited every two months?
i don't deny that humans without greed exists... But again... why breed when you are not going to keep... just messing the life of the poor parents (breeder's pets / breeding animals) just for their pure passion / enjoyment...

Hi,
I have a boy from Linggene and I'm looking for a girl to be his companion. Cos of that I need to get a different line from my boy's and thus another breeder is preferred. Do you know of any?

Thanks!

PE

What a fantastic topic. Have been hoping something like this would come up sometime .

@mavericksam - With the practices of most breeders in Malaysia I totally understand your scepticism and negativity towards breeders.
Firstly I am 100% against irresponsible breeding, back yard breeders, puppy mills or anything similar.
However there is such a thing as a responsible breeder and i shall describe to you exactly how they work:
For informational purpose: Pregnancy in dogs last 9 weeks, not 9 months. Once the puppies reach around 1 month old the mother will start to force them to become more independent. By the time they are 2mmonths old, the mother will barely be phased if they leave the 'nest' as relationships between dogs don't work the same way ours do with our children. Once the puppy is fully independent from the mother the relationship changes to that of 'friends'/'pack member' rather than 'parent/child'.

On to the definition of a responsible breeder:
REASON FOR BREEDING: A responsible breeders primary reason for breeding is to improve their 'breeding line' to conform as closely as possible to breed standards and thus improve and maintain the quality of the breed as a whole. The most common secondary reason for breeding is wanting to ensure people who want dogs get the best experiences possible.

PREPARATION: A responsible breeder will be extremely knowledgeable in their chosen breed before considering breeding. They will often have experience showing or working with the breed for many years before starting to breed. They will also be extremely well versed in the breeding process and fully capable of dealing with any and all possible complications during pregnancy and whelping from breech births to retained placentas and Eclampsia.
A male and female will be picked for suitability (sometimes a stud dog is used from another kennel in order to 'dilute' the genes within the line and introduce/strengthen desirable traits in the subsequent litters). A responsible breeder will often only take a stud dog from a kennel they know well as they will want to have knowledge of the ancestors of their chosen stud.
Most often (where possible, especially in small breeds where there is no difference between standard male and female sizes)the chosen stud will be smaller than the female to prevent puppies that are too big for the female to deliver naturally.
Most commonly both male and female involved in the breeding will be show to champion before being mated. If the blood line is exceptional and there are multiple BOB/BIS within the heritage, showing might be saved until after, however standard practice is to show first.
Both male and female will be given full health checkups well within 6months before mating. This will include a general health check (to ensure the male will not pass anything nasty to the female and that the female is in the best physical and mental health possible). This check up will also include tests for common genetic problems to ensure the puppies do not inherit a predisposition to hip-dysplacia, cataracts, etc.
If either dog has any health issues or fails a genetics test, the mating will not proceed.
A responsible breeder will also have a waiting lists of potential owners who have all been screened for suitability and could expect to wait 2 years (sometimes longer) for a puppy from the mating of their choice (more about new owners later).

BREEDING ITSELF: A responsible breeder will breed one female at most every other heat (more often once every 2 years), starting no earlier than the 3rd heat cycle and stopping by the age of 5-8. If either dog is unwilling to mate (either the male is not interested or the female becomes nervous and a potential danger to herself or the male) artificial insemination can be used instead (artificial insemination is also used if the stud and female are in different countries, semen can be harvested, flash frozen and transported to the female).
Once the breeding has taken place the breeder will take the female to a vet at 26 days to see if the mating has 'taken'. The female will be placed on a very nutritional diet and be closely monitored for the duration of the pregnancy. The female will be given regular exercise (as she always is) until very late on in the pregnancy to ensure she is fit for delivery.
Subsequent vet trips will be taken throughout the pregnancy to ensure everything runs smoothly. At 8weeks into the pregnancy a final ultrasound and sometimes 1 x-ray will be taken to determine how many puppies are expected. At this point the females temperature will be taken twice a day to ensure the breeder has warning that the puppies are coming (a females temperature drops by about 1degree around 12 hours before whelping begins).
When whelping (delivery) begins the breeder will sit with the female throughout the process to ensure everything runs smoothly, to help when needed and to properly record puppy delivery times/weights/sizes and check for any problems.
Within 24 hours of the last puppy being delivered the female and her puppies will be taken to the vet for a checkup. If not all the puppies expected were delivered or their was a retained placenta the vet trip will be much sooner.
After delivery the breeder will inform potential owners that their long awaited puppy could be with them soon.

POST NATAL CARE: The breeder will stay with the mother and puppies 24hours a day for the first few days after birth to ensure the mother is coping with her puppies and everything is as it should be. In the case of premature puppies or a mother who doesn't know how to care for them, the breeder may spend more than 2 weeks giving 24hour care (of course with help) to ensure puppy and mother and safe and grow/recover correctly.
As the puppies grow older and the mother starts to detach herself from them, the breeder will socialize them and prepare them for life in the human world as well as wean them onto solid food.
Puppies will be de-wormed every 2 weeks and will stay quarantined until they have had at least 1 vaccination (at this point they may be allowed to see other dogs from the same household). They will receive their first vaccination between 4-6weeks old.
At this point chosen potential owners will be allowed to view the puppies although strict sanitary precautions are taken and visits are kept short.
Usually, puppies will be released to their new homes at 8weeks of age. However if a puppy is extra small or had any kind of health scares, the breeder may hold onto them until they are a more appropriate size and get a clean bill of health.

CHOOSING POTENTIAL OWNERS: A responsible breeder views all puppies delivered by their dogs as if they were their own. Therefore they are very picky about who is allowed to take one (no amount of money will persuade them to give you a puppy if they have deemed you unsuitable for any reason). They will often have a huge list of often quite personal questions for you to answer including how many children you have, what kind of house you have, your experience with dogs (more specifically the breed in question) as well as your household income (to ensure you have the means to take proper care of the dog). A responsible breeder will also expect you to have done your research and be able to discuss the temperament and looks of the breed as well as the reason why you want this breed in particular.
A responsible breeder will often come to visit you in your house before allowing you into theirs and will expect you to be honest with them at all times.
A responsible breeder will divide their puppies into 'potential show dogs' and 'purely pets'. A pet dog will come with a spay/neuter contract that ensures you will never breed the dog and will have him/her desexed by the age of 1year old (sometimes 6months to ensure breeding is pretty much impossible). Puppies are allocated as pet dogs if they are not seen to be an exceptional example of the breed and therefore not suitable for show (perhaps a Poodle has a parti-coat or a Shih-Tzu is slightly out of proportion). If a puppy is deemed suitable for show (if they are an exceptional example of the breed and have potential to do well at conformation) they will be sold without a spay/neuter contract but at a higher price. A potential owner for a 'show puppy' will usually be grilled even more severely than a potential 'pet' owner to ensure the puppy does not fall into the hands of a BYB or Puppymill.
Both pet and show puppies will come with a contract containing a number of stipulations for the care of the puppy and a condition that if at any time the puppy cannot be cared for by the approved owner of if any of the clauses in the contract are broken, the puppy will be released back to the breeder without any compensation to the owner.
On the flip side, the contract will contain a health guarantee which protects against contagious illnesses in the short term (usually 1week-10days) and genetic problems in longer term (usually 1 year), for show puppies this also includes anything that would compromise their show career (of course, unless caused by the new owner). If any relative problems are found within the time period the breeder gives a number of options for resolution (the most common include, replacement of the puppy or paying for medical expenses up to the price of the puppy).
A responsible breeder will also be available to help the new owner with anything, anytime. They will want you to stay in touch, be happy to answer any questions or concerns during the puppy’s life and probably bug you for news and pictures if they don’t hear from you in a while.

PRICING: A responsible breeder charges money for their puppies. However unless they have a truly exceptional line and their puppies are in very high demand all over the world, they will not make any kind of profit from their puppies.
One of the main reasons a responsible breeder charges money for their puppies is because someone is much more likely to treasure something and care for it properly if they had to pay money for it (especially if they had to pay a lot of money).
A breeder will also charge to recover some of the costs of breeding. Although they will never recover the cost of raising the parents, the vet trips and care of puppies, they will not lose as much as they would otherwise. However this is not always the case, I know of a couple of wealthy breeders (they made their money from business, not breeding) who donate all the funds they make from their puppies to animal related charities.

This is the description of a responsible breeder in the international setting. I think it is unlikely that there is as yet a breeder who takes ALL of these precautions in Malaysia, however any breeder who strives for this and comes as close as possible given the situation in Malaysia can be considered responsible for now (as long as they continue to strive to meet these expectations).

Oh yes also. A responsible breeder would NEVER put their puppies in a pet shop, their own or otherwise and a responsible breeder will not have more than 1 litter at a time (in case intensive care is needed) and will usually breed maybe 3 times a year.

p.s- apologies for the length but this is just the raw steps and stages a responsible breeder takes and says nothing of the fun fluffy care stuff .

This post has been edited by Divas: Nov 22 2010, 10:05 PM

i think this topic should be pinned up, especially Divas' reply....

finally the more-than-often, disguised, so-called home breeders (i don't mean all) can be distinguished from the truly responsible breeders.

another point to note is that, most of the time (if not all) responsible breeders only specialise in one breed (as in breed 1 type, but may have many other breeds as pets), to ensure that no accidental cross breeding (no matter how much precaution is practised)
and also by specialising into 1 breed, the breeder can spend all the available time and resources to improve that particular breed, as learning about a breed is not an easy task, it takes years of practical experience....

@mavericksam : besides, if there is no breeding (of course should be from responsible breeders), then the different breeds that exist now would be extinct and others who wish to own a certain breed would not be able to own them....

@ CyaNide27.
Thanks for adding in there. I knew i would forget to mention some things and you covered them nicely .

@pewong.
Did you really open up a thread on responsible breeding in order to find a new dog as a breeding partner for your current dog??
I really hope you have done your research and preparation...

on a side note since it is related to issues regarding breeding....

dogs are not like humans, they DO NOT need gratification/pleasure through sex. they mate to pass on their genes and continue the species ONLY.

there are many (ignorant, sorry to say) pet owners out there (and in LYN) who think that their dogs deserve to do it at least once. But have they done full research about breeding? I doubt. They would have just randomly pick out 2 dogs and leave them to mate.

So if the dog do it once, then what will happen to the mother? Doesn't she need extra care during prenatal and postnatal? Then what happens to the puppies? Sell them for an extra buck? What if they inherited diseases from their parents? Wouldn't that cause another generation of suffering (to the puppies involved)? Ok, some would argue that they want to keep the puppies, what if the litter is large, like say 4-5 puppies? can you afford to keep all including the parents up till their ripe old age?

please do not mate your dogs just for the fun of it or just to let him/her do it once! and of course NOT for money!

You're giving me the impression you're planning to breed your dog? I hope I'm wrong, and please correct me if I'm wrong. But if you are, I cant see any responsible ethical breeder willing to sell a puppy to you.

Want to keep this thread active for a while so am going to be adding in some extra info every now and then.

First up: QUESTIONS TO ASK A BREEDER

A responsible breeder should be very knowledgeable (even if they have just started breeding). They should be able to give lots of information about their chosen breed as well as caring for dogs in general.

When you visit a breeder you should ask them a few key questions, partly to determine if they are in fact a responsible breeder but also so you know how best to take care of the puppy and whether or not the particular breed is suitable for you.

This is a list of key questions (as well as the reason and desired answer) you should ask every breeder you visit. You can also add your own questions about the breed and care of a puppy/dog if there is anything you are unsure of. A responsible breeder will be happy to sit and go through all your questions and concerns (as long as you let them know you are coming to visit so they can make the time).

KEY THINGS YOU SHOULD ASK A BREEDER.
Why did you choose [Insert breed] to breed?
- A responsible breeder will probably have had experience with the breed (either in conformation show, grooming, training, growing up, though a mentor breeder, agility shows etc.). They may also have specific preference due to looks, function or temperament.
- At this stage the breeder will probably explain all the things they love about the breed and give you an idea of the fun things to expect.
What are the negative points of a [Insert breed]?
- A responsible breeder will be able to critically analyse the breed and tell you the down sides (some breeds are prone to certain illnesses, some are generally hyperactive, others stubborn etc.).
- A responsible breeder will make sure you clearly understand the negative sides to the breed as they don’t want any surprises when you get the puppy home.

How much experience do you have with dogs in general?
- This is a good thing to ask a breeder as a responsible breeder will most likely have been involved with dogs in one way or another long before they started breeding.

How long have you been breeding?
- Although not necessarily an indication of how responsible a breeder is (someone breeding their first litter could have gone about it in a much more ethical way than someone who has been breeding for 20 years), it is still useful to know.

Do you breed any other breeds?
- A responsible breeder will usually focus on 1 or 2 breeds. If they are a very experienced breeder they may have bred one breed previously and now moved onto another.
- Being a responsible breeder involves understanding your chosen breed in depth, including their breed standards, common problems and what types of family suit such a breed. It takes years to learn and fully understand just one breed so a breeder who has 5 litters from 5 different breeds has very little chance of truly understanding them all (and therefore little chance of choosing suitable breeding pairs to produce good quality puppies).
What health tests were performed on the sire and dame (the parents)?
- A responsible breeder will ensure necessary genetic health tests are performed on a regular basis on their entire breeding stock. These tests will look for certain common genetic problems including hip dysplasia (especially in large breeds) and cataracts (there are some diseases that only affect specific breeds, such as Collie eye, so only those breeds will be tested for it). The breeder will have record of the test results that they can show you.
-A responsible breeder will never breed a dog that has failed any genetic health test.

What is the care level of the puppy?
- A responsible breeder will want you to know what you are in for. They can tell you if the breed will require a lot of exercise (such as Huskys, Beagles etc.) or a lot of grooming (such as Poodles, Shih-tzus etc).
- From a responsible breeder the answer to this question will never be “They don’t need any special care and are very easy to look after”. Even for a breed that is very low maintainance (Boston Terrier, Pug etc.), a breeder will ask you to give them some exercise, good training, regular basic grooming and lots of attention.

What socialization have you done with the puppy?
- A responsible breeder will have started socializing the puppies long before they are ready to go home. They will have exposed them to things such as TV's, Hoovers, a whole range of people and usually other animals. It is important for puppies to get used to new things and places at an early age to ensure they grow up stable and happy. An unsocialized puppy = a neurotic and fearful adult dog.

Can i see the Sire and Dame?
- A responsible breeder will always be happy to let you view the mother if it is safe to do so. If the mother is close to her delivery date, experiencing any complications or if the puppies are born, but very young, the breeder might delay the meeting until the mother and puppies are safe to have visitors (high stress situations such as meeting a stranger can cause complications during late stages of pregnancy and young puppies are very susceptible to diseases and illnesses.
- If the breeder owns the Sire, they will be happy for you to meet him as well. If they have used a stud dog from another kennel, the breeder should at least have a picture and photo copy of the sire’s Pedigree Certificate (MKA) and health test results.

When can I pick up my puppy?
- A responsible breeder will never let you take a puppy home before he/she is 8 weeks old. Before 8 weeks old puppies aren’t ready to leave the mother, although they are fully weaned, there are vital life lessons that they need to learn from their mother. Also young puppies are quite fragile and can easily catch diseases of fall ill due to stress.
-A responsible breeder will want to make sure the puppy is healthy and developing well before handing him/her over to a new home. If your chosen puppy is unusually small, the breeder may hold onto him/her for a little while longer to ensure the puppy is a safe size and isn’t going to easily be injured or overly stressed with the move.

What will the puppy come with (paperwork etc.)?
- A responsible breeder will ensure the puppy’s first vaccination (against dangerous diseases such as Parvo Virus and Distemper) are administered between 6-7weeks old. You should receive a vaccination record with proof of vaccination (as well as an official vet stamp) and a note on when the next vaccination is due.
- A responsible breeder will deworm the puppy every 2 weeks from the age of 2 weeks old. As they will most likely do this themselves, there will not necessarily be any record for you to take home, however your breeder should let you know when the puppy was last dewormed and when the next deworming is due.
- A responsible breeder will only breed dogs that are registered with the local dog association (so a locally bred dog will be registered with MKA). The mating will have been declared as well as the Whelping date. Each puppy will be entitled to a Pedigree Certificate from MKA proving that they are a Pure Breed.

NOTE: Although many people seem to feel MKA certification is not necessary and prefer to pay less for the dog, remember that that piece of paper (along with the accompanying micro-chip) are the only proof you have that your dog is in fact Pure Bred. If there is even dispute over ownership (for example; if your dog escapes your compound and someone ‘adopts’ him and is unwilling to return him to you, it can serve as supporting evidence of rightful ownership (as long as you remember to transfer ownership using the form attached to the certificate).
If you are planning to ever consider breeding your dog, show at confirmation, or travel overseas with him/her, a MKA certificate is vital.
- Some responsible breeders will require you to sign a contract, detailing certain limitations on the care of the puppy. This is to ensure the puppy is cared for properly in any circumstance or eventuality. If this is the case you will be given a copy of the contract for your own reference.
- Some responsible breeders also prepare a ‘puppy kit’ for you to take home with you. This usually contains an information sheet on important things such as when to next deworm the puppy, how much to feed them over the next few months (as well as a couple of days worth of the food they are currently eating), any commands they already know. It may also contain a piece of towel or toy with the puppy’s littermates and mothers scent on it, this will help ease the transition to your house (If the breeder doesn’t send a ‘scent patch’ along with the puppy you can always give them a towel or soft toy to put with the litter for a few days before your puppy comes home).

You can also ask the breeder to describe the temperaments of each individual puppy (a responsible breeder will have spent a lot of time with the puppies and will be able to describe their individual characters), how many litters they have a year (3 or 4 is ok, if they have more than that, be slightly wary), what are their long term goals with breeding (a responsible breeder's goal will be to improve their bloodline).

Divas, maybe you could pm the admin for this forum requesting to pin up this thread as it is useful for every pet lovers, pet owners and newbies....

@Divas.... WOW!! Great JOB!! I totally support what you have written and I myself do not support puppy mills!!! I have done my research too and what you wrote are just exactly as what I have researched but in a more structured way...

A lot of ppl do not know what is backyard puppy mills. Maybe a link or two about backyard puppy mills can educate few of us here.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/note.php?no...115584295149749

check this out...this is how a puppy mill look like

Thanks for the kind words, its nice to know all my typing is appreciated and actually read .
Yeowa, that's a good idea about 'what a mill and BYB is'. I'll start typing it up. Hoping to get a few more bits and pieces written up for this over Christmas, things are quite hectic at the moment.

For now just a short one, the flip side of what to ask a breeder...

QUESTIONS A RESPONSIBLE BREEDER WILL ASK YOU?

A responsible breeder will screen all potential puppy owners very carefully. They will ask you as many questions as you ask them to ensure their puppy will be going to a good home. Some breeders will even insist on coming to visit you before you visit them in order to get a better idea of the environment their puppy will be going to.

Some questions you should expect from your breeder;

What experience do you have with dogs (and [Insert Breed] specifically)?
Why do you want a dog?
What are you looking for in a dog?
What interests you in this breed?
What do you know about the breed?
What type of house do you live in?
Who lives with you (how many children? what age? how many adults?)?
[If appropriate] Are you planning on having children (if so, when)?
What is your average family income?
What are your working hours like?
Who will be the primary carer for the dog?
Have you had any other pets (if so what, and for how long)?
Do you currently have any other pets (if so what, and for how long)?

There are many other questions a breeder might ask, in general they will want to find out as much as possible about your experience with dogs, your living situation (and any foreseeable changes), you reasons for wanting a dog (and the specific breed) and your understanding of care for dogs (and the specific breed).

They will want to ensure that you have done some research before choosing a puppy and understand the care (training, grooming, expenses, average age, health issues etc.) which will be required as well as be in a situation to provide that care.

Don’t be offended with the questions a breeder asks you, they simply want to get a good idea of whether their breed is suitable to your lifestyle and family, if you are prepared to take care of them (both time wise and financially) and if you will ensure their puppy grows up safe and well looked after.
If a breeder doesn't care what kind of life their puppy is going to have with you, do you really think they care enough about the puppy to breed it correctly, or care for it correctly while it is with them?

I am currently looking for a mini schnauzer. any one has any idea of a good breeder for mini schnauzer?

Done some search on lowyat for responsible breeders but I couldn't find many threads talking about this.
This one does however it is an old thread.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1648058/all, and the thread starter talked about Linggene Kennel, http://www.linggenekennel.com/Index.html

They carry 3-4 breeds of puppies at one time, eg shih tzu, mini schnauzer, toy poodle....
and they seem to be okay.

But I am still new and will be searching the forum for as much information as possible that I need to know before buying a puppy, and of course how to choose a responsible breeder.

advice would be much appreciated. thanks

This post has been edited by jjjia: Oct 28 2012, 06:59 AM

I would suggest that you look for breeders that only specialised in 1 breed, as they would have spent most of their extra time and know very well about that particular breed....

Most importantly, you must know how to identify a responsible breeder from a backyard breeder.... Are their breeding dogs showed in championships and certified to be within breed standards as written by American Kennel Club (ie with a Mal CH prefix in their registered name)? Do they have too many litters in a year by the same dog? Are they willing to let you into their house and let you see how their dogs live?

However do note that champion parents and champion bloodline have 2 very different meanings! Champion bloodline just means that somewhere in the ancestry line has a champion dog, but this does not mean it's offspring possess qualities within the breed standards....

Ask alot of questions regarding the breed and general dog health care, grooming etc, a truly dedicated breeder will be knowledgable to answer you....

Another suggestion is to make time and visit the championship shows organised by MKA (info here : http://www.dogsmalaysia.my/?node=event/home ) to get to know breeders who spend their time on a particular breed, so that you will know who to look for when looking for a puppy....

One important thing to know about breed standards http://www.akc.org/breeds/miniature_schnauzer/index.cfm is to avoid being scammed by irresponsible breeders.... Especially in breeds with many colours.... for example, white schnauzers are actually 'defects' in their genes, white colour is not a recognised colour in dog associations.... Which logically, should be sold at lower price.... But due to demand and being hyped up by irresponsible breeders, they end up being sold at higher prices than standard colours.... This is just 1 of the example, there are many more off-standard qualities which irresponsible breeders hype up to sell them at higher price... Most famous being 'teacup' dogs.... But thats a whole issue altogether which you can search on the internet about....

Thanks for the reply cyanide, the info are really useful. I do agree that it is difficult to tell a responsible breeder from a backyard breeder (BYB).

If a person carries 3 different breeds, but the dogs are all in good shape and taken care of properly does that make him/her a responsible breeder for taking care the dogs properly? Or does it make the person a BYB because he/she is having too many dogs at the same time for commercial purposes? or does it all depends on how the person selects the dam and sire of the puppies?

After a couple days of search I find most of the sellers on petfinder with puppies for sales do not seem to be responsible breeders as they have a lot of puppies for sale all year round, which I will stay away from.

Another thing I am not clear about is the MKA certificate. What does it signify? I checked the registration form from MKA, it shows the name of the sire and dam. does it mean that there would be no inbreeding? What should I pay attention to when I ask for MKA certificate from the breeder? should I insist on getting the MKA cert when I bring the puppy home from the breeder? because there seem to be some buyers who were still waiting for the cert after a few months of getting the puppies and later found out that they got scammed

Sorry I have so many questions but I just want to make sure what is right and I do not want to support irresponsible breeder and pet mills.

This post has been edited by jjjia: Oct 29 2012, 05:36 AM

The dogs may look well taken care of physically or just in pictures, but are they well taken care of mentally and emotionally? Are they kept in cages or allowed all around the house? If they say they only cage their dogs when there are visitors, what does that imply? Is it because their dogs are not trained on how to behave when visitors are around? Or was that statement just a lie? More so when the visitor is a potential customer, there shouldnt be a problem of 'visitors might be afraid of dogs' excuse right? Sometimes they only show you the pup that you are interested in without letting you into their house.... Is there something to hide that you are not allowed to view the parents' living condition?

A responsible breeder goes through all that trouble to study and expand their knowledge on a particular breed, brings their dogs for competitions to certify that the dog is of quality and meets the breed standards.... They provide their dogs with good quality food, supplements and care.... They do this out of passion and as a hobby, outside their main income job (be it a professional job, grooming business etc) which sustains their hobby.... With so much time, money and effort placed into just 1 breed, do you think it is possible for a responsible breeder to be selling different types of breed? For a responsible breeder, the cost of breeding will never be recovered just by selling puppies (yes, even at high prices )

Even in selection of the mating pairs are done with careful decision making, weighing the possibilities of producing good quality puppies in terms of structure, personality, coat etc.... Obtaining a show dog itself costs at least a 5 figure sum.... But of course, not necessary that 2 champion dogs will produce champion puppies as this is genetics.... But by choosing a quality dog, it increases the chances of producing quality offsprings which would contribute to the improvement of the breed.... However, a pet quality pup from champion parents will naturally still be of better quality in terms of personality, structure etc than pups from just taking 2 dogs and allowing them to mate without much considerations....

Also do note that champion parents are not the same meaning as champion lineage.... Champion lineage simply means that somewhere in the pup's ancestry has a dog who has obtained its champion title.... However as i mentioned above, not all their offsprings will turn out to meet the breed standards.... This is where irresponsible breeders come in and use these dogs to breed and sell their pups as champion lineage to fetch a higher price, without considering the fact that the dog does not meet the standards of the breed....

for commercial breeders, their aim is to spend as little and earn as much money as possible from a single female, thus they have litters almost all the time.... Therefore the more puppies they have, the more money they make.... Let me just give u a scenario.... Dog A has 4 pups, dog B has 3 pups, dog C has 3 pups, all mated and give birth around the same time, how much care can each pregnant dog receive? And how much care can each pup and its mother receive? This is another reason why responsible breeders dont have many litters at the same time.... This is different from large dogs with large litter as there is only one mother to be taken care of....

Now you may wonder, if responsible breeders are in this for passion, why do they charge so much for a pup.... A simple question to answer that.... Wont you spend more effort to take care of something you spent alot of money on? If someone can spend so much on gadgets, why not on a life which will stay with you for a long time, right?

As for MKA cert, it simply shows the pedigree of the pup.... From the cert, u can see a few generations of ancestry of the pup to make sure there is no inbreeding.... Also to apply for the cert, both the pup's parents must have certs themselves and the pup must have a microchip inserted....
However, some irresponsible breeders will go to the extend of forging the parents cert just to register the pups with MKA as they can fetch a better price....
Normally when you can bring your pup home, the cert is not ready on MKA's side, so your breeder will inform you once the cert has arrived, normally should be before the pup's 1 year old birthday if there is no delays.... But if you purchased from a responsible breeder, then you wouldnt need to be afraid of being scamed, right?

This post has been edited by CyaNide27: Oct 30 2012, 01:15 AM