1 thing i don't understand bout 43 system,they are supposed to be able to produce cheaper lens from it substantially smaller sensor format,but they don't,their lens cost a bomb!!! their 25mm f1.4 cost enough for me to buy a 550d+50mm f1.8 with spare change even

and another thing..with portrait photography so common among user,they don't produce any real lens for portrait,instead come out with really freak focal length like 20mm(neither normal or wide angle),or 45-200(starting length already too tele for most use)

and other thing is...with their sensor format already being smaller than SLR,even with the same aperture rating the bokeh is very much lesser than SLR system,and yet they still produce lens with relatively narrow aperture,like 45mm F2.8,14mm F2.8....making matter worse,what is their designer thinking when designing the system,no real photographer in this world would ever neglect this factor when chosing a system,but the designer of 43 system make me think they are not bunch of photographer at all,maybe just some nerd engineer in lab testing MTF and vignetting only

i don't understand the whole point of the 4/3 system,its smaller format than APS-C but cost more to buy,supposed to meant to pros but miss out the real point of what the pros really wanted,and even though starting with few lens they elected to produce weird focal length lens first,require adapter for most of the better 4/3 lens to work on m4/3,but won't able to AF on some lens,and the adapter cost like a bomb

i really wanted this system to work as i really into the CDAF system of ILC,but other than that can anybody tell me y i should go 4/3,i'm favouring towards the new G3 but still asking y

This post has been edited by Valentino46: May 21 2011, 12:42 AM

yes,i fully aware that its a new system,and its a gem waiting to be mature,but i need a camera right now,i need reasonably shallow depth of field to suit my type of photography,and i can't live with the focus error on SLR phase detection system,i sold my 7D system upon detecting unsolveable focus error on all my lens(even the micro adjustment and sending back to canon couldn't solve it entirely)

the nearest would be nex system and samsung nx,samsung is nono for sure....nex appear like design for ladies or yankies,supposed to be pro for offering aps-c sensor,but not even offering a hot shoe and many pros feature in the name of being compact,for me,pros and compact doesn't bode very well,and what for offering such compact body where almost all the practical lens won't work in your pockets anyway,it looks like the engineer forgotten that ppl not using it with pancake lens only but zoom lens most of the time

the market status is such that there's no obvious choice for me from any manufacturer,or maybe i should go back to my old slr gear?arghh....

This post has been edited by Valentino46: May 21 2011, 01:27 AM

actually i do use my 50mm f1.4 and 135mm f2.0 most of the time though through my tenure with canon dslr,and 15-85mm was in my dry box for much of the time except if i go for long travel.

yeah i'm keen on full frame bokeh,but i had develope phobia towards phase detection focus error,you fix the front focus at 15mm,then it back focus at 50mm,you fix the 50mm,then it front focus at 85mm,tired of it.CDAF has no room for focus error as it directly uses the sensor for focusing

anyway...no obvious choice for me right now if CDAF is the only choice,DSLR CDAF is too slow for any good

i still couldn't figure why canon and nikon could develope significantly cheaper lens for their smaller aps-c format but pana and olym cost a bomb to make their even smaller 4/3 format lenses

yea i think thats more acceptable point of view,but pity the loyal m4/3 user here

anyway did you have experience using m4/3,for your experience is the bokeh produce by these lens and sensor format good enough to isolate subjects in traditional portrait photography?i'm looking into the 20 f1.7(only good for wider scene portrait i guess) and 14-140 (using the longest zoom at wide open to produce enough bokeh),look..the key word is "is it enough",just enough will do

thats some nice bokeh there,do you have any picture with normal portrait composition,with subject face far enough to eliminate distortion,by this distance the bokeh should be lesser,but i suspect should be enough

is this being shot with f1.7? the bokeh doesn't look that substantial at all considering the distance of that background from subject is soooooo far,is this being shot with f2.8 or higher?

i do know the theory,but i'm little dissappointed with the outcome,i was expecting too much from the lens i think
until they release a proper portrait lens to go with their system i think i will not touch m4/3 in anytime soon

for the meanwhile the market trend is such that there are too many compromise for the any of these system,even if i have fair amount of $$ i couldn't get a really decent system in evil category

m4/3 keep rolling out stupid lens and and forgetting their smaller sensor format is already a compromise,they need some good lens with good focal length and aperture to let user upgrading from compact to appreciate the benefits of larger sensor,not to mentioned their crazy price for their accessories,panasonic will take every opportunity to stick the leica brand on their lens to make u pay more,beside that,no remote flash,no IR remote control even for their most expensive model,and their battery life is just simply pathetic(yea yea....because you wanna reduce the size so no large battery),in short,way too much compromise

sony nex system was the most screwed up system on earth i think,what for keep downsizing to such extend you can't even have proper flash and image stabilizer just to keep the body slim,where anything beyond the ultra wide pancake lens would make it unpocketable anyway,u'll even need a stupidly expensive flash adapter to make the flash stands higher to work with the longer zoom lens,and again their decision on the lens spec won't let users to appreciate the benefits of larger sensor anyway,but they do have IR remote at least

samsung still plague by bad sensors and while they looks ambitious,their product doesn't hide from the facts they don't have much experience in photography,but its the most balance system of all i think

for those who long for more depth of field control like me,i think xz-1 could offer around the same for much cheaper price,at least compare to current crop of lenses offer by these system at the meanwhile,for example a shot below with f/4 at 85mm (which could easily stop down even lower to f/2.2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexlotl/5644953706/

This post has been edited by Valentino46: Jun 8 2011, 06:48 PM

ok,tats interesting....you meant the kits lens could produce some better bokeh(i assume at 42mm f5.6) than xz-1 at 115mm(24mm) f2.5?
i'm interested in that because i almost getting myself a xz-1 soon

lolz,i like that sentence,look like slr,feel like slr,big like slr,cost like a serious slr(60d level),u gonna pay more for sensor "real estate"
the only thing is the accuracy of contrast detection which i really long for

i guess like highwind point out,its just the matter of time before the system mature enough to rival DSLR,but i not seeing that happen in really near future,for the meanwhile i think i just stick with xz-1,gonna get it this weekend

pana,olym sony,please~~~you are not making a handphone or netbook now~~~give us something more sensible

weirdly our full blown dslr 600d has shutter lag worse than a xz-1,although its too small to call it a different
G3 manages 4.5fps,not bad.....but i suspect if follow panasonic tradition the buffer depth will be very shallow unlike dslr

alrite will update you once i tested the camera
i'm concerned about the over zealous noisy reduction algorithm though,but i planned to restrict myself to use 100-400(though too bad the auto iso will vary from 100-800 range,i gotta find someway to avoid 800 if i were to use auto iso),and 800 for emergency only,considering the very encouraging maximum aperture of this cam and the fact that the ISO value is actually understated as pointed out in dpreview,i think should be workable

This post has been edited by Valentino46: Jun 9 2011, 05:38 PM

what lens body combo are u using for the shot above?

with this trend going on,i think by 3 years time the body will be so small that the whole system looks like just a lens mount on an lcd

lolz,coming coming~~!!

i guess it'll be better than you expected,here we have bunch of photo from real life user for your reference,prepare to scroll through the pages though,the sample picture is really plentiful
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=541&t=1984346&p=1

i'm looking to buy with the fl-36r(as now got some nice promotion with olympus product it seems),now waiting for fellow forumers yushin to input me regarding the function of the flash focus illuminator,zoom head and TTL with xz-1,if its work yay!!!

This post has been edited by Valentino46: Jun 15 2011, 04:56 PM

bear in mind the picture posted in the forum is automatically compressed to the server size,its much better than that,pay attention to those which attach the picture via flickr or photobucket,there are not as heavily compressed

i think we're now have good idea of how the new pen going to be like,the only piece of the puzzle is the sensor,whether they still use the old 12mp sensor or the new 16mp or maybe olympus own new sensor,if its the new sensor and couple with the olympus noise reduction algorithm(which is always better than panasonic),then i think i would seriously contemplate to get maybe the e-p3 as my second camera for shallower dof photography(45mm f1.8 in mind)

i sold off my 550d duh,now very likely to give up the 7d as well to accommodate the new pen,but i'm still anticipating the new pen specs,if its any good i would like it to couple with xz-1 and being able to share accessories(evf,flash) is a boon

This post has been edited by Valentino46: Jun 21 2011, 05:46 PM

olympus looks to deliver some very interesting bits for us this coming weekend,precisely on my birthday too,wat a nice gift,really looking forward to it