No samples online that I know of. To be honest there are various types of S&Ps as the clauses are different according to the scenario. It's dangerous to compare with others.

I would suggest just reading it and if there's any clause which you don't understand, just ask your solicitor to explain. He has a duty to do so. But don't ask him to explain each and every clause la

Trust your lawyer that he would've put in all the relevant clauses,bro, and leave the rest to him.

Cheers.

I've posted something on leasehold property at page 2 of this thread. Can you take a look first, and if you still have something on your mind, do come back and ask.

Cheers.

1) For some leasehold properties, the duration is longer as consent from the State Authority is required. Most of the time, 3 months is given to the vendor to obtain consent to transfer, so the 3 + 1 period only starts to run from the date consent is obtained. So, you're looking at 6 months at the longest. But that is just the general position. Sometimes, consent can be obtained in about 2-3 weeks as well. See how lucky you are, I guess.

2) Excellent question. In actual fact, there shouldn't be any difference between leasehold and freehold property as both are liable to acquisition by the government. Freehold land does not mean that the govt can't acquire it, and leasehold land doesn't mean that the govt can't extend the lease for another 99 years - or even convert it to freehold.

So there's actually nothing to worry when it comes to leasehold - but in reality, for some reason, there are 'stories' that banks are hesitant to offer loans for leasehold property. I do not know how much that rings true.

Perhaps some people are just saying that because their loan got rejected due to financial instability on their part and yet they find it convenient to blame the leasehold status as a reason for their loan being rejected! Get it?

I think that it shouldn't be the case, as I've explained above. Both types ought to be treated alike.

Some say that it is because leasehold land does not appreciate well enough in value. I think that appreciation is irrelevant to the bank as the property is valued at the time of purchase, and it's speculative value is not a basis in considering whether to award a loan or otherwise.

I wouldn't advise people who want to purchase leasehold property to refrain from doing so. I believe there is no way the govt will refuse to renew the lease when it's expiration is approaching. That would be what we call political suicide.

Don't worry - if the property's valuation is up to the mark, and your financial gearing is alright, there is no reason why the bank ought not offer you a loan to purchase a leasehold property.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 17 2010, 10:35 PM

Manufreak07,

To be honest, you would have to copy and paste the whole itemised invoice here for us to take a look and advise you. This is too general.

However, the RM500 for consultation is ridiculous. The scaled fees for preparing the loan documentation includes consultation and advice rendered to client.

At least you did the smart thing by getting a second quotation. That is what I would advise others as well - don't stick to just one quotation. Try a few and compare. Be a smart customer.

With regard to a complaint, you can do so but at the end of the day, you decided not engage them at all, so essentially you did not suffer any loss. It was a mere quotation and since you did not act on it, you have no contractual relationship with them anyway.

So any complaint you make will not go that far, unless you want to bring this matter to Bar Council's attention as a matter of public interest.

It's up to you.

If what PM said in the Budget can be trusted, all SPAs signed 1st Jan 2011 onwards will be eligible

---

Added on December 21, 2010, 2:45 pmTake some time to read the earlier posts in this thread. This issue has been dealt with previously.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 21 2010, 02:45 PM

No sarcasm,bro, don't get me wrong. It's just that I've not heard of any official announcement by way of circular,etc on this matter, so that's why so far all that has been announced is still unofficial. If I do hear anything official, I'll definitely post it here for everyone's benefit.

If anyone else has a copy of a circular on this, do post it here.

More details please - did you execute the tenancy agreement? what are the terms of the agreement in relation to payment of rent?

Are you sure it's not the other way round? As in final title is known as Geran No: ___________ and previous title was known as HSD or HSM - Hakmilik Sementara Daerah/Mukim.

Please check

Xsean and bOOn,

Both of you put up interesting questions which I'll have to give detailed answers.

Will be busy for X'mas (getting ready to go for Mass now), so if you guys don't mind, I'll get back to you both on Monday ya!

Merry Christmas to everyone.

---

Added on December 28, 2010, 11:08 ambOOn:


The final 5% is held by the stakeholder, usually the developer's lawyer, and shall be released to the developer as follows:
a) 2.5% to be released 6 months from the date of handing over of vacant possession (VP);
B) 2.5% to be released 18 months from the date of handing over of VP [end of defect liability period (DLP)].

In cases where there are complaints on defects, the 2.5% sum would be withheld by the lawyer until the said defects are rectified by the developer to your satisfaction.

There should be a clause like this in your agreement:

(1) Any defect, shrinkage or other faults in the said Building which shall become apparent within a period of eighteen (18) calendar months after the date the
Purchaser takes vacant possession of the said Building to which water and electricity supply are ready for connection to the said Building, and which are due to defective
workmanship or materials or the said Building not having been constructed in accordance with the plans and description as specified in the Second and Fourth
Schedule as approved or amended by the Appropriate Authority ,shall be repaired and made good by the Vendor at its own cost and expenses within thirty (30) days of its
having received written notice thereof from the Purchaser and if the said defect, shrinkage or other faults in the said Building have not been made good by the Vendor,
the Purchaser shall be entitled to recover from the Vendor the costs of repairing and making good the same and the Purchaser may deduct such costs from any sum which
has been held by the Vendor's solicitors as stakeholder for the Vendor and subject to subclause (2), the Vendor’s solicitors shall release such costs from such sum to the
Purchaser within fourteen (14) days after receipt by the Vendor’s solicitors of the Purchaser’s written demand.

(2) The Purchaser shall, at any time after the expiry of the said period of thirty (30) days, notify the Vendor of the cost of repairing and making good the said
defects, shrinkage or other faults before the commencement of the works and shall give the Vendor an opportunity to carry out the works himself within fourteen (14) days from
the date the Purchaser has notified the Vendor of his intention to carry out the said works.


What you do is this:

1) List down all your complaints in writing;
2) Send it by hand to the developer and get an acknowledgement from them. CC it to the lawyer as well.
3) After a week, just get a contractor to give you a free quotation on the repair works;
4) Give a copy of the quotation to the developer and get an acknowledgement from them. CC it to the lawyer as well.
5) 30 days after you've given notice to them via step (2), go ahead and get the contractor to do the repair works at your own cost first;
6) Once that is done, send a copy of the receipt to the lawyer requesting for the sum or a portion of the sum to be released to you being reimbursement of the expenses incurred. CC this to the developer;
7) Within 14 days, the lawyers MUST release the sum which you claimed to you.

Always get an acknowledgement from the developer and the lawyer and keep everything in black and white. Even if you make a phone call and something is mentioned or promised to you, follow it up with a letter confirming the teleconversation and what was discussed - send it out and get it acknowledged. All this is to back you up when you make the demand to the lawyer for the sum to be released to you.

Hope the above helps

---

Added on December 28, 2010, 11:36 amxSean:


HSD and HSM are temporary titles - Hakmilik Sementara Daerah and Mukim, respectively. It is an individual title issued pending the final marking of boundaries and submission of the final plan to the Jabatan Ukur, following which, upon approval - a new and final number will be issued.

And it will be called Geran No ____________, or Pajakan Mukim No: ______________ for leasehold land office title - to give another example.

When it is still under HSD or HSM, you can't apply for division of boundaries (pecah sempadan) or subdivision (pecah bahagi). You can only do so when it has been changed to a final title.

---

Added on December 28, 2010, 12:15 pmmanufreak07:


Ask the lawyer how the legal fees of RM350 for DOA and POA is calculated.

Stamping of letter of offer - ought to be RM10
Bankruptcy search - ought to be RM12/pax
Dev confirmation - ought to be RM50
Consultation - cannot be charged. It is covered by legal fees itself. Disbursements are for expenses actually incurred
Security documents - would normally range from RM100-150. Check with the Bank.




This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 28 2010, 12:15 PM

It's dariofoo,my friend

What you can do is get your lawyer to email you a scanned copy of the search which they did on the master title. You can see the latest status of the title there.

stay_cool:


Your agreement should contain the following clause:

If the Purchaser is desirous of obtaining a loan to finance the payment of the purchase price of the said Property the Purchaser shall, within fourteen (14) days
after receipt of a stamped copy of the Agreement, make a written application for such loan to the Vendor who shall use its best endeavours to obtain for the Purchaser from a
bank, finance company, building society or a financial institution (hereinafter called “the Financier”) a loan (hereinafter called “the Loan”) and if the Loan is obtained the
Purchaser shall, within a reasonable time, execute all necessary forms and documents and pay all fees, legal costs and stamp duty in respect thereof.

(2) The Purchaser shall utilise the whole of the Loan towards the payment of the purchase price of the said Property at the time and in the manner set out in the Third
Schedule hereto.

(3) If the Purchaser fails to obtain the Loan due to his ineligibility of income and has produced proof of such ineligibility to the Vendor, the Purchaser shall then be
liable to pay to the Vendor only one per centum (1%) of the purchase price and this Agreement shall subsequently be terminated. In such an event, the Vendor shall, within
twenty-one (21) days of the date of the termination, refund the Purchaser the balance of the amount paid by the Purchaser.

In this case, you can only back out of the agreement if you fail to obtain the loan due to ineligibility of income. Are you sure that it was rejected due to valuation? I doubt so, as it would be affect the other purchasers as well. Perhaps you can bring this to the attention of the developer who will then assist you to apply for a loan with a bank that can match the property price and offer you a 90% loan.

samlhc:


Here's my advice (assuming that you want vacant possession as soon as possible):

1) Don't waste time and money to enter into an agreement with him;
2) Immediately appoint a lawyer and instruct your lawyer to serve him an eviction notice;
3) Obviously he will ignore as he will stay there until Feb 2011;
4) Instruct your lawyer to file an application to obtain a court order to compel the occupant to vacate the premises;
5) It will take around 2 months at the earliest (very rough estimate) for the lawyer to obtain a hearing date, get the order before the Judge, file the draft order, extract it and file the faired order, and extract the sealed order.
6) Once all that has been done, wait and see if the occupant has vacated the premises or otherwise. If he has not (which he most probably will), then instruct your lawyer to file a distress application in Court - the Court bailiff will escort your lawyer (you may be present as well) and compel the occupant to vacate the premises. The occupant will definitely surrender vacant posession to you by this time.

If you do enter into an agreement as you said, you would have to wait until Feb 2011 to see if he vacates the premises or otherwise. If he doesn't, you have to start steps 2-6 from Feb 2011, and by the time all is done, another few more months would've lapsed.

It all depends as to how fast you want vacant possession. If you don't mind waiting, just wait until Feb 2011 until you start step 2 above. Essentially, any agreement which you enter with him now would not have any basis or relevance come Feb 2011, because you are still obliged to serve him with an eviction notice.

PS: If you want to find out about other purchasers who have bought properties under auction and experienced a similar predicament, may I humbly suggest that you open your own thread in the forum and ask there.

Xforged:


Merry Christmas to you as well,bro. Good to see you back here. Hope you've been reading up the other posts and gain some knowledge as well?

This RM1000 which is requested by the purchaser's solicitors - is there a letter in writing for this? Am sure there is none.

What you do is this - ask them to issue you an official letter stating that 'the RM1000 is payable to the land office as cost of transfer of title' [am just quoting from what you said in your post] or for any other reason they say it is.

Just say that the letter is for your record purposes. Don't back down if they say that they won't give it to you. Any request for any document/payment from you must be in writing. Tell them that.

See whether they will still demand for that sum from you or otherwise. Keep us posted.

With regard to your other questions, it appears that you've answered it yourself when you said, it all depends on how fast the processing can take place

So there you go!

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 31 2010, 12:57 PM

I know the answer but I want to see what the solicitor explains to you when you meet him, or when you request for a letter demanding for the RM1,000.
Keep me updated on this as this is very interesting.

With regard to your instalment, you would normally stop paying once the cheque for the redemption sum has been paid out to your financier, thus clearing the loan.


This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jan 1 2011, 06:22 PM

LameCouple:


Legal fees are alright. Only thing is that bankruptcy search ought to be RM12/pax, and stamping of letter of offer is just RM10. Title search is quite pricey at RM120. Perhaps there's two titles?

---

Added on January 5, 2011, 1:45 pmme_hu:


Wow you're really being taken on a long ride down Bullsh*t Avenue by these bunch of rogue lawyers. Utterly ridiculous charges. Only Discharge of Charge, Application for Consent and RPGT at RM300 each is proper. Perhaps another RM150 for disbursements, and nothing more. Do the right thing and get a second opinion.

It's quite a hassle to do it on your own as you would have to fill up the forms and follow up on your own and it would be a waste of money.

---

Added on January 5, 2011, 1:51 pmA charge is a security created over the property in favour of the bank. When you have fully settled all payments to the bank, the bank would have no reason to maintain the charge, and thus, the procedure to remove the charge is called Discharge of Charge.

Once the charge has been discharged, the bank will return the original title, original S&P (if they are keeping it), and the duplicate charge to you for your safekeeping.

Most of the time, one only discharges the charge when one subsequently sells the property. In such scenario, one can authorise the purchaser's solicitors to do the Discharge of Charge documentation. The legal fees are RM300, excluding disbursements.

However, if you want to do it right now, there's nothing wrong with that too. Appoint a lawyer to do it. Same legal fees applies.

Cheers.

---

Added on January 5, 2011, 2:11 pmFirstly, you're in the right thread. Welcome.

It's only been two months, so it might be a bit too early to set the alarms ringing. Perhaps he would usually be able to pay on time but due to unforseen circumstances, he was unable to do so. Perhaps he's going through a rough patch.

With regard to rent, bearing the above in mind, you can tolerate the delays for the time being. Give it a few more days time, then you better pay him a visit and address with him the issues of late payment of rental and unpaid utility bills, as the latter may accumulate and burgeon into one huge load on you later on. The way he reacts can tell whether he's gonna improve things or otherwise.

However, if you smell a rat and you want to cut him off while it's still early and forfeit the deposit, this is what you have to do:

1.Do you have a tenancy agreement?
2.There ought to be a clause stating that in the event the tenant fails to pay monthly rent by X date, the landlord can terminate the agreement. You may have to give one month's notice in advance.
3. Once he defaults after X date, send him a letter terminating the tenancy.
4. Forfeit the deposit as it is to cover the one month rent which is still outstanding as well as rent for the one month notice period - make sure that he settles the utilities, or else, use the money from the half-month deposit to clear the bills.
5. Once the 1 month period is up, tell him to vacate the premises.

What happens after that is hard to guess. On one end, he might be graceful and leave without kicking up a fuss. On the other end of the spectrum, he might damage your house and leave in a huff and without any trace.

I know of such tenant who filled up the landlord's toilets with faeces, clogged it with bottles, and then kept on flushing it until the whole toilet was flooded. The end result? I leave to your imagination ya.

So weigh your options carefully first before deciding.

---

Added on January 5, 2011, 2:18 pmIf you subsequently sue him for unpaid rental and you get a court order in your favour, you can send it to CTOS for them to enter into their database. Any judgments where there is a monetary sum involved would be welcomed by CTOS. If it is just to humiliate or embarass him just because he did not pay you rent now or if you evict him, CTOS is not the right avenue.

Eviction would be the last resort. Cross that bridge when you reach it.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jan 5 2011, 02:18 PM

Search is only RM12, not RM15. Tell her ok but you want to see receipt. See whether she goes like this ->

Search ought to be around RM30-60. Depends on the land office. RM120 is high. Did you check with the lawyer?

Lawyers can only bill you for disbursements actually incurred, i.e for exact sum of expenses incurred. If they mark it up even a bit that is wrong. Some people may think it's just a bit but when you add it all up, it can make a difference.

Up to you.

Yes you can ask for receipts. They have to give a copy to you. It's just like purchasing groceries, you need to see the receipt to check if you're paying the right price right? If they overcharge you for disbursements, they ought to issue you a refund at the end of the transaction. Unused portion of disbursements must be refunded to you.

Payment of legal fees is upon signing of the S&P or loan documentation, as the case may be. It's common practice.

Some firms accept part payment, but you must settle before the end of the transaction.

Lawyers also scared clients 'cabut' mah

Then they sit in the office the whole day going like this ->

Why must state inside? Did the lawyer say why?

No need, in my humble opinion.

Unless you got some arrangement whereby the vendor allows the purchaser an extension of time to pay the balance 8% deposit only after withdrawal of fund from the purchaser's EPF (as you can only make your application to withdraw EPF funds after you execute the S&P).

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jan 5 2011, 03:44 PM

Shall answer all outstanding queries tmr morn. Had a busy day! Cheers

---

Added on January 7, 2011, 11:41 amYou can appoint a lawyer. It doesn't cost much - 25% of monthly rent or RM300, whichever is lower. Disbursements won't cost beyond RM200. You can draft your own tenancy agreement as well. I think the agent can do one for you as well. It would be valid as long as it is duly signed by the parties, witnessed and stamped. No issues there.

---

Added on January 7, 2011, 11:43 amOne month is a long time. Too long

I would say between 1-2 weeks, the lawyer should call you. Better call the bank/agent to find out more, as time is running and your completion date will creep up on you fast. As purchaser, you must chase time

---

Added on January 7, 2011, 11:46 amHave yet to receive any circular on this matter. Shall try to get more info and update you all on this.

@Jalsrix - you would not be applicable as you're not a first time buyer, irregardless whether the S&P is stamped in 2011 or 2010.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jan 7 2011, 11:46 AM