cngi:



Sorry la boss, better you ask your lawyer about all this 'discount' issues. I'm in no position to advise you in all that.

You can still insist for the invoice as the sum of RM5029 is quoted to you based on what the lawyer gave to the Bank.

Get it from your agent/bank and post it here for us to comment on the disbursements/expenses charged to you. Legal fees and stamp duty on facilities agreement is fixed.

When you say 'some reason' - are you saying default by purchaser or vendor?

If default by purchaser, the contract would be deemed to have been breached by the purchaser, and the vendor is entitled to forfeit the 10% deposit as agreed liquidated damages. Other sums collected by the vendor, i.e. differential sum (if any) shall be refunded to the purchaser.

In practice, there are situations where the vendor condones the delay and accepts the late penalty interest as compensation, as it would be quite a hassle to start all over again with a new purchaser, etc.

PablePicasso:


1) When it comes to properties sold subject to the fulfilment of a certain condition , the usual time period of 3+1 to complete the transaction would not apply. Look at your S&P again. When does time start to run?

From the information provided i gather than the property is of the following nature (correct me if i'm wrong):
a) Leasehold;
b) Situation within Selangor; and
c) Individual title not out yet.

In such cases, in an ordinary agreement, time would run from the date of receipt of the LETTER OF CONFIRMATION from the developer (that is what we call the doc you're referring to).

As such, your 3+1 would run from Sept 2010.

With regard to the delay by the Vendor, there's a few issues to be addressed:
a) Who is applying for the redemption statement? The vendor himself or your solicitor (on his behalf)?
b) What is the time frame given to the vendor to obtain the redemption statement? Check your agreement.

* normally, 14 days would be given to the vendor - calculated from the date of request by your solicitor/ financier's solicitor

If it exceeds 14 days, there would be an extension of time given to you to complete the transaction, i.e. it goes beyond the 3-month period stipulated in the agreement - wherein you would not be required to pay late penalty interest even though it exceeds 3 months.

* once again, look for this clause in your agreement. It should be there.

As such, you need not worry about the completion date. You are well protected there.

With regard to your current tenancy, you would have to sort it out with the landlord personally, as you had personally committed yourself to surrender vacant possession to him within the 4-5 months' period. Try to get another extension of time. You may have to pay extra rent out of your own pocket.

Hope the above helps. Do ask if you have any further queries.

PabloPicasso:


How can both parties apply? Either the vendor does it on his own, or he authorises your solicitor to do it on his behalf. Your solicitor can call up the vendor's bank to follow up as well. There's no harm in that. Just need a bit of initiative on his side.

If the time period for completion of the transaction is up and it is due to the default of the vendor, you have two options:

* once again, check if this is provided for in your agreement

a) Go to Court for an order for specific performance to compel the vendor to sell the property to you;
b) Give the vendor notice of termination of the contract, wherein the deposit and all other sums paid by you will be refunded to you PLUS a sum equivalent to the deposit shall be paid to you as agreed liquidated damages.

With regard to the tenancy, even if it expires, you can continue staying there provided you pay monthly rent and the owner accepts the said rent without protest. This is what we call a monthly tenancy. It can be terminated with one month's notice. So you can buy yourself a bit of time there as well.

Good luck

1) If delay by vendor, the completion date is EXTENDED, as I explained to you earlier. Of course it is more beneficial to you in some sense as you need not pay any late penalty interest for the time being. So, there's no new SPA and no new legal fees;

2) There is no late charges by the vendor, as you are purchasing the property from him. He doesn't pay you anything. His loss is that he doesn't receive the balance purchase price.

3) Letter can be valid as long as the bank accepts it. If they demand a fresh one, just get the dev to reprint it with a new date. After all, the details should be the same.

Sorry for the late reply. I was doing some research on it first before giving you a reply.

Basically by Stamp Duty (Remission ) (No.7) Order 2002 [P.U.(A)434/2002] - a donor who transfers the property by way of a gift will be entitled to a 50% discount on STAMP DUTY payable.

* donors in this case only covers parent-child, child - parent. With regard to husband-wife or wife - husband - it is a 100% exemption (there's an Order issued in 2007 regarding this)

In your SIL's case, she will receive a 50% discount on the stamp duty as she is transferring it to your MIL by way of a gift, without any consideration (money,etc).

With regard to legal fees, the scaled fees would be 1% of the value of the property [as the half-share is worth RM30,000.00] - so it would be RM300 (which is actually the minimum fees stated in the Solicitors' Remuneration Order).

The rest of the fees would be RM300 being CKHT2A and RM200 for CKHT 1A (both forms to be filed at the Inland Revenue Department), and disbursements (travelling, photocopy, papers, stationery, etc).

..Plus the stamp duty as stated above.

Nanalolu:


1) You are only entitled to the 50% rebate if it is a transfer by way of gift from parent to child. In this case the child (you) is only receiving half-share of the property, you will be entitled to 25% discount only. Your solicitor has to make this clear when sending the MOT for adjudication.

I must add another thing - since the property is unencumbered - you do not need to execute an SPA since the consideration is love and affection (gift). You just need to execute a MOT to transfer it to both you and you.

With regard to legal fees, you will be charged according to the market value of the property.

Once it is transferred to you and your wife, you can both charge it to a financial institution as security for a loan.

This process is easier, rather than executing an SPA - unless your parents are SELLING it to you for some consideration (money).


2) You can post your invoice/note of charges here for us to take a look. The figure you posted is too general.

3) As stated by Seremban_2, it would take a max of 3 months. Anyway that is the time frame allocated. If all goes smoothly, it may even take only a month, as there would only be one advise for drawdown [this is assuming that you execute an SPA,etc]

4)

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Added on December 3, 2010, 9:23 amHave you watched The Dark Knight? I'm just like him.

Only that I don't have a cool car/bike, and I can't stand that tight costume.

Not suited to our local weather

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Added on December 3, 2010, 9:29 amIf you read the first post of this thread, you will notice at the end that there is a warning to all lawyers that no touting is allowed here. Generally speaking, as it is, lawyers are not allowed to advertise, so the 'listing' you've requested is also not allowed here.

I'm sure some 'cari makan' lawyers (or 'lawyers') will PM you to solicit their services. Go ahead if you feel comfortable.

Personally, I would ask family and close friends to recommend a law firm whose services they have personally engaged AND was satisfied with the service rendered.

Read our earlier posts to learn more about selecting lawyers, and also to answer your query on whether it is advisable to use a bank panel lawyer.

If you need any more clarification, come back here and ask.

Cheers.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 3 2010, 09:29 AM

Hanalolu:



When you speak of the rebate, it has to be a transfer by way of a gift. When it is a gift, there is no exchange of money involved. As such, there is no need for a S&P. However, you will still be billed based on the market value of the property, so there is no difference when it comes to scaled fees for the solicitor. Whether you prepare an S&P or otherwise, the fees will be based on the market value, as there is no purchase price to base on.

Ok?

Cheaper in the sense that there would be less disbursements involved if you go for option (1). In fact, it should make sense that you're going for option (1).

If your lawyer still insist on option (2), then...............

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Added on December 3, 2010, 1:20 pmKochin:



Why are there 2 loan facilities? Are you using the same lawyer? In that case, some disbursements are claimed twice - like title search, bankruptcy search, company search. Stamping of SD is only RM10, not RM50. Ask your lawyer if the searches must be done twice and seek clarification why, if they say yes.

Sorry, I don't entertain questions about discounts. I'm sure you know that lawyers are prohibited from giving discounts/rebates/refunds,etc. It is between you and your lawyer to sort it out personally and privately.

PS: How do you know that they are offering good service?

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Added on December 3, 2010, 1:36 pmHappyday9959:




You have to complete full payment of the purchase price first before you are deemed to be the owner and you can take vacant possession of the premises. So wait til your lawyer gives you the green light to take vacant possession. Perhaps in the meantime you can start applying for water and electricity?

'As is where is' would mean that it is sold in the condition that it is with whatever which is in the house. It is mostly inserted to cover the chargee (the bank) - as in most auctioned property, the condition is not guaranteed. It may be damaged and destroyed by the occupants before they leave the property, so you buy it at your own risk.

With regard to permanent fixtures in the property, yes it would belong to you. With regard to movable items, in particular, the furniture you are talking about, I would suggest that you do this to protect yourself:

1) Prepare an inventory of the items left behind;
2) Go lodge a police report listing down the items - stating that if it is not claimed by the previous occupants within 2 weeks, you will dispose off it;
3) Store the items for 2 weeks [realistically, I don't think the occupant will come back to claim it!];
4) After that, I would recommend that you dispose off or sell the items.

Are you sure you want to use the furniture left behind by the previous occupants, even though it is in good condition? Creepy, if you ask me

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 3 2010, 01:36 PM

Happyday9959:

No prob. Do come back and share your experience once all is settled. I think it would be useful for followers of this thread to find out how you personally dealt with this situation. Cheers.

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Added on December 3, 2010, 11:33 pmfazlittc:


You can get it within a week, by right. Call your lawyer and find out. Has both parties executed it? Perhaps a clerk forgot to buzz you to attend to collect it.

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Added on December 3, 2010, 11:38 pmKiddo:



No prob. Can't blame you for being excited. First purchase, I assume?

Apart from the fact that 'change of ownership' can be done on your own, there is absolutely no prob with the quotation. It is very fair.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 3 2010, 11:40 PM

The current position is that stamp duty for purchase of a residential property not exceeding RM250,000 is given a stamp duty exemption of 50%. The exemption is effective for S&Ps executed from 8 September 2007 to 31 December 2010.

Yes, the stamp duty calculated by your lawyer is inclusive of the rebate.

With regard to the RM100 for the change of ownership, looking at your reasons, I'd do the same thing as well - spend RM100 to have that peace of mind. Don't be pennywise, poundfoolish

All the best

Rastaf:


Look at your S&P - when does time start to run? It may not necessarily be 3 + 1 from the date of signing the S&P.

If it is after the 3+1 period, the contract is deemed to be null and void and of no effect. The vendor has to return the 10% deposit to you PLUS another sum equivalent to the 10% being compensation (agreed liquidated damages).

The tenant has no duty to settle the maintenance fees. It is the landlord who has the duty to do so, unless it is specifically agreed otherwise.

I do not understand what you mean by the developer already issue the consent/MOT to land office and some how this vendor does not apply/ register ealier . How come the vendor has to apply? It is the developer who applies for individual title, not the vendor.

And how come a direct transfer to you was not done instead (if it was possible)?

Furnish us with more details and I'll advise you further.

When you say 'to get the name changed' are you implying 'consent to transfer ownership by State Authority' or 'transfer of ownership by way of memorandum of transfer' ?

In the event the property is subject to a condition, i.e. State Authority's consent must be obtained, then the 3+1 period will only start to run from the date of obtaining the said consent.

If you are asking about transfer of ownership by way of memorandum of transfer - please note that for the property to be registered in your name, it has nothing to do with the timeframe period. The most important thing is for the memorandum of transfer (MOT) to be PRESENTED for registration and the fees for it to be duly paid, and receipt issued.

For your bank this receipt for proof of presentation of the MOT, coupled with receipt for proof of presentation of the charge in favour of the bank, is sufficient documentation for them to release the balance loan sum to the vendor, thus completing the S&P.

When the duly registered title is issued, the original will be kept by the bank and a photocopy should be handed to you for record purposes.

Hope the above helps

There was a thread not long ago on whether one can pay legal fees by credit card (CC) as opposed to cash or cheque. Needless to say, no one gave a proper answer.

So, I took the liberty to do some research and this is what I came up with:

 Payment_of_Legal_Fees_by_Credit_Card.pdf ( 129.16k ) Number of downloads: 132


Basically, law firms are allowed to accept payment by way of CC, so you CAN pay legal fees by CC

Would be better if you could put the whole invoice here for us to take a look. And the advise will be as to whether the disbursements are reasonable or otherwise. Legal fees are fixed according to scale and therefore the question of rebate does not arise.

Kochin, it looks alright to me

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Added on December 11, 2010, 5:10 pmcutealex:



Since it's not free, then you would have to appoint a solicitor to prepare a S&P whereby cousin sells his half-share to you. Following that, you need to approach the Bank and find out as to the position of the facility agreement and Deed of Assignment (i'm assuming that strata title has not been issued yet, as will be the likely case) in light of the sale of the half-share.

The Bank can prepare a supplementary agreement whereby you undertake to make the necessary monthly repayments towards settling the total loan sum on your own accord. This is of course, subject to the Bank's discretion, and also subject to your gearing. Will you be able to afford to bear the loan on your own accord? If they are satisfied that you can, they may well make an exception for you.

The question which you have to ask yourself is - is there really a need to go through all that? Is there any difference in the monthly repayment? Are you the only one making the payment, or are you both sharing?

If you're worried about executing documents in the future if he is not around, he can always execute a Power of Attorney to authorise you to execute any documentation on his behalf.

So maybe maintaining status quo may not be a bad idea after all. Weigh all your options first.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 11 2010, 05:10 PM

This is Lawyer's Corner to share legal knowledge and to ask legal questions. Please proceed to Cari Makan Corner or Touts Corner.

If you're hungry you can drop by Devi's Corner @ Bangsar.

A photocopy would do. Sometimes instead of doing a title search the bank can just have sight of the vendor's S&P to check particulars of the property as well as ownership details. Of course once the offer letter is out and signed, your loan solicitor would have to do a proper search.

The original S&P ought to be retained by the seller. It's best that you return it.

No problem as long as there's instruction in writing by the vendor's solicitor to your solicitor. Or perhaps it is stated so in the agreement.

That is between the vendor and his lawyer, so you don't have to worry.

bukanmain:


The 6 month duration could be a rough figure as the property in question may have been a leasehold property of which the transfer to the purchaser is subject to the State Authority's consent.

Coming to your case in hand, the procedure would be like this:

* assuming that property is freehold, has strata title, that the vendor is represented by a solicitor and that vendor has an existing loan, hence the property is still encumbered (charged to the bank):

1) Upon signing the SPA - pay 10% to the vendor's solicitor - after that your solicitor will lodge a caveat upon the title to protect your interest;
2) Since you're buying cash, you would need to deposit the balance 90% in your solicitor's client's account;

* This is important as you are not obtaining a loan, and as such, the 90% balance would be the balance purchase price.

3) The vendor's solicitor would obtain a redemption statement from the vendor's existing financier to find out the sum needed to redeem (loosely speaking, 'to settle') the loan;
4) Once the redemption statement is out, it will be given to your solicitor, and your solicitor would forward a cheque to the vendor's solicitor to make the necessary payment to redeem the loan using the money which you had deposited in the client's account;

5) Once that is done, the vendor's solicitor will forward to existing financier the said cheque together with a discharge of charge to be executed by the financier;

6) Once the cheque is cleared, the financier would return the original security documents and the duly executed discharge of charge back to the vendor's solicitor, who would then forward it all, together with the fees for registration of the discharge of charge to your solicitor;

7) Your solicitor would then proceed to withdraw the caveat, discharge the charge and present the memorandum of transfer (MOT) to register the title in your favour;

8) Once the MOT has been duly presented for registration, it would be safe for your solicitor to pay the balance purchase price (less redemption sum already paid earlier) to the vendor, and you can collect your keys to your new home.

Quite straightforward,right? For such SPAs, the completion date will be 3 months from the date of signing, and a further 1 month extended completion date upon expiration of the said 3 months. During the extended completion date, you would have to pay 8% of the balance purchase price being late penalty interest. This is normally called '3+1'

But you would have to bank in 90% immediately after signing the SPA. This is avoid any complications in the future, eg if you only pay 60% and then an emergency occurs and the balance you had in hand need to be pumped in to solve the problem. A prudent solicitor would demand for 90% to be banked in before proceeding further in cases of a cash purchaser.

Hope the above helps