Hi kly,

Thanks for dropping by.
Refinance Loan Amount= RM 234,000.00

Legal Fee
=========
1 Facility Agreement 2,088.00
2 Memorandum of Charge 208.80
3 Entry & Withdrawal of Private Caveat 350.00
Government Tax : 5.00% On Legal Fees 132.34
========
2,779.14
Legal fees are quite standard and looks alright.

Disbursement
============
1 Stamp Duty - Facility Agreement (original) 1,170.00
2 Stamp Duty - Facility Agreement (copy) 20.00
3 Stamp Duty on the Memorandum of Charge 40.00
4 Stamp Duty - SD for own occupation & bankruptcy 20.00
* There is no need for 2 SDs on this. It can be incorporated into 1 and it'll only cost RM10.

5 Stamp Duty - Letter of Offer 30.00
* This should only cost RM10 as only the original is stamped

6 Reg fee-Memorandum of Charge 50.00
7 Reg Fees-Entry & Withdrawal of Private Caveat 480.00
8 Affirmation fee on the Statutory Declaration 50.00
9 Land Search Fee (CTC Title @ RM 50/- per title) 150.00
* How many titles are there? How come there's 3 titles?

10 Bankruptcy Search 50.00
* This should only cost around RM30 for 2 pax

11 Security Documents 200.00
12 Miscellaneous 50.00
13 Postage, Courier and Photocopying Charges 100.00
14 Telephone, Fascimile Charges 50.00
15 Travelling Charges 150.00

* Items 12-15 are general disbursements, and in total, RM350 is quite high. Maybe you can ask them to make it RM200-250.

=======
2,610.00

=======
Bill Total: 5,389.14
=======
Other than that, it seems alright.

Your savings would not really be much, but if you ask me, it's still money right?

If you're gonna ask the solicitor to review it, let us know the results.

Good luck

Titann16,

How much is the legal fees for the S&P which they are quoting you now? What is the price of the property?

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 15 2010, 11:16 AM

I say, now we've come back to those 'freedom fighter' purchasers' story again? Thought we've heard the last of them

So now if the developer has financial problems - the project might be abandoned, is it? Is that what their fears are?

Now, if the project is abandoned/uncompleted, what would be the point of having a title for an abandoned/uncompleted property?

Who's going to grant them a subsequent loan with a charge created over that abandoned/uncompleted property?

You get my point here, bro?

So at the end of day, like you said, they "get to keep their respective titles under their beds" la. And sleep over it!

Even if they want to sell it off, who wants to buy a half-complete house with no CF?

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Added on November 15, 2010, 3:16 pmThey didn't quote you stamp duty on the MOT?

Anyway, with reference to your earlier question, I noted that you mentioned that you only saw it in a banner - and it was not stated in the agreement. Now, a statement made in an advertisement (eg this banner) serves only as an invitation to treat to you, and not an offer. It is not binding on the developer.

Unless you can locate any side agreement or letter which states that the dev will foot the bill for the legal costs.

If you can't then you can't compel them to pay for the legal fees.

In any event, the sum is not much, as they have agreed to pay half of it. The MOT and disbursements would have to be borne by you in any event.

I would advise you to not make a meal out of it, and just proceed. At least you can rest assured that you can have your individual title out soon

Cheerios

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Added on November 15, 2010, 3:42 pm1) There's no time period stipulated by the land office once the notice is out to the developer. Yes there are legal costs and stamp duty involved.

2) There's one instance where a purchaser may want to deliberately 'delay' executing the MOT - where the purchaser is an investor (or speculator) who merely purchased it with a view to sell it off when the price is right. Now, these kind of purchasers would not want to execute the MOT as they have to bear the extra charges stated above, especially the stamp duty, which runs into thousands. They would prefer that the developer executes a direct transfer to the new purchaser, so that they can save money





This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 15 2010, 03:42 PM

Calculate your legal fees here:
http://www.elawyer.com.my/legal_calculator_info.php

..and your Stamp Duty here:
http://www.iproperty.com.my/financing/calc...calculator.aspx

Cheers

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Added on November 17, 2010, 1:24 amGood! Be a smart consumer! Don't be ransomed by lawyers and their fees if you feel it's exorbitant. Just ask around and get a recommendation for another lawyer and get another quote, and another until you're fully satisfied. Yes it's a small amount but I would try to save as much as I can as well - at least it can be used to buy some stuff for the new house,no?

Fees are paid in full upon execution of SPA. It is the general practice in most, if not all firms.

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Added on November 17, 2010, 1:34 am[quote=Xforged,Nov 15 2010, 11:35 PM]
Hello sifus,

I'm seriously a noob when i comes to property especially matters concerning legal. I'm currently letting go of my house (sub-sale) for rm275k.
We are all noobs, varying only in degrees


The issue that we (myself and the buyer) have now is that we need to find a lawyer to draft/issue out the sub-sale agreement. The loan however, as usual, will be drafted by bank's panel lawyers. Some say that the bank's panel lawyer could also render assistance in issuing the sub-sale agreement but of course with different cost/price.
True. Sometimes, the solicitor handling the S&P can also prepare the loan doc. Either they happen to be in the full panel, or the banks allow them to do it on an ad hoc basis. It would make things faster if there's only 1 or 2 firms handling all the transactions, instead of a full house of 3 firms.


Roughly how much should the buyer fork out and what are the standard items/services which are being paid for? As a seller, what should I be aware off before signing the agreement?
You can calculate the legal fees on behalf of the buyer here:
http://www.elawyer.com.my/legal_calculator_info.php

With regard to disbursements, I suggest that you check the earlier posts in this thread to get a fair idea of the types of disbursements normally billed by solicitors. Any specific enquiries, feel free to come back again and ask

Also as a seller, what are my other obligations? I know that RPGT is mandatory and I suddenly realized that I need to pay a 3% penalty fee to the current financier, Alliance Bank, due to early redemption for my loan. Will this lawyer (for the sub-sale agreement) advise me on these obligations?
In one of the earlier posts, I explained in length the options of a vendor in an S&P and the obligations therein. Please feel free to browse in this thread, and do ask if you need clarification.

If you appoint your own solicitor, for which you have to pay full scaled fees, then that solicitor will explain the peruse the draft S&P for you. Otherwise, you're on your own.

RPGT is mandatory, but there are exemptions available. It is not a 5% flat rate tax.

Another issue I looked at is MRTA-I've selhtf-financed my MRTA for the entire tenure of my loan. In view of the sub-sale, would I even get some sort of a refund from the insurer upon settlement/transfer of title to the new owner? Or is it considered gone? probably there are some info I missed out which were not clear and/or requires further clarification by sifus here. Hope you guys could help me figure out.

With regard to this, please read through the relevant agreement/policy, or get your insurer to explain it to you. It's not really a legal issue, but more on the policy/regulations of your insurer.

Good luck

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 19 2010, 01:47 AM

[quote=Xforged,Nov 18 2010, 07:52 PM]
Appreciate your advise Dario. Some of the earlier posts may related to some of the answers I seek. Interestingly, in one of your previous post, you have mentioned that the seller may “Authorise the purchaser's solicitor to act on you behalf ONLY in respect of assisting you in discharging the charge, and obtain the unencumbered original title from the bank for onward transmission to the purchaser's financier's solicitor (let's assume the purchaser will be taking a loan). They will also assist you by filling up the CKHT1A (and CKHT3) and proceed to file same at LHDN. You will not be charged full scaled fees, but the fees for Discharge of Charge : RM300 and CKHT 1A: RM300 are fixed and is normally charged in this kind of situations.”

Yes, you've spotted the one which I intended for you to read. Good job. This is what they call appointing a common solicitor.

Should this turn out as such, it’ll be great and Yes, I may save on Solicitor’s full scaled fees. But I guess its upon discretion of the said solicitor – he/she may reject my offer for this service, no? Will there be a need to issue a separate agreement for this ‘authorization’?

Yes, you save on scaled fees, but you must understand that you would have to peruse the agreement and check it yourself. Don't worry, the purchaser's solicitor will definitely OFFER to assist you with the discharge of charge,etc. It will also make their work easier as there's only 1 firm involved in the S&P as opposed to 2 if you appoint your own solicitor.There will be a letter of authorisation which the solicitor will prepare to be executed by you. It's quite a straightforward letter.

Fyi, the buyer has just initiate the loan application and we have principally agreed to use 1 lawyer to oversee the s&p and loan agreement. Will wait and see. Will definitely post more queries prior to appointment of solicitors.

So, your whole transaction will only involve 1 firm. In a way, that's good, as things will move faster (provided all is in order and there's no unforseen problems).
RPGT is 2% flat – is it a typo error? I thought its 5% flat rate? Govt reduced the rate? As for MRTA, agreed that this is not a legal issue, I’ll take it up separately.



Sorry, it ought to read 5% and not 2. I've edited it. The 2% comes into play as the purchaser's solicitor must retain 2% of the purchase price in contemplation of paying RPGT on your behalf if you don't take the option of applying for exemption. I would advise you to apply for exemption, unless you have another property of higher value which you plan to dispose off in the near future.

Good luck

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Added on November 19, 2010, 1:59 am[quote=Jade Rabbit,Nov 18 2010, 09:01 PM]
Hi, may I know how is the legal fees for a loan agreement computed? Is there a fixed scale based on the loan amount? Is it true that some lawyers may offer some discount on that?I understand that it can also be absorbed into the loan amount. Please advise.

[/quote]

You can calculate the amount here:
http://www.fiscal-wise.com.my/FinancialToo...ost.aspx?link=1

Yes, banks do allow for it to be absorbed into the loan but for more details, do ask the officer handling your loan application.

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Added on November 19, 2010, 2:08 am[quote=zogun,Nov 18 2010, 11:54 PM]
hi, can u help me a bit about the stamp duty

may i know when is the 50% exemption on stamp duty being use? because i bought an apartment back in 2008 (signed S&P in july 2008 ), then this year im buying another house but then i didnt know if i have use that 50% exemption. how do i check the status besides calling my old lawyer?
thanks

[/quote]

How much was the price of your previous property? The current position is that stamp duty for purchase of a residential property not exceeding RM250,000 is given a stamp duty exemption of 50%. The exemption is effective for S&Ps executed from 8 September 2007 to 31 December 2010.

What was proposed in the 2011 Budget speech by the PM was:
-50% stamp duty exemption will be given on S&Ps for residential properties with a price not exceeding RM350,000
-The exemption is granted on the first residential property purchased by Malaysian citizen and eligible to be claimed only ONCE within the exemption period.
-Eligible for S&Ps executed from 1 January 2011 to 31 December 2012.

If you were eligible, the Stamp Duty exemption for the 2008 apartment would've been calculated automatically when your previous solicitor sent the documentation for adjudication.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 19 2010, 02:18 AM

Xforged:




You can read a previous post of mine regarding RPGT and it's calculation here:http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1612349/+20

If you don't understand, ask again. No worries.

Since ure applying for exemption, the purchaser's solicitors will not retain the 2%, and you will receive the balance deposit as usual. So don't worry.

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Added on November 19, 2010, 10:45 am
Raist:




Note the double claim on these:
Official Assignee Search & Winding Up Search = RM 60
Land Searches = RM 60
Developer's Confirmation = RM 50

If you are using the same solicitor, it is not reasonable for him to charge you RM200 X 2 for travelling.

Other than that, it looks alright.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 19 2010, 10:49 AM

Yes, you would've been entitled to it automatically, and since you're no longer a first time purchaser, the new ruling would not apply to you.

You can check this with your previous solicitor.

Discuss with your lawyer also la bro. Ask him whether he's gonna do the searches TWICE. There's no need for it to be done twice actually. See what he says.

Francis_gf,

Interesting question. At first glance I might say that you've actually no ground to complaint against the failure of the buyer, but i'm trying to look at it from another angle.

If you insist that the S&P has lapsed after the 120 days period (3+1), then it would follow that it is of no legal effect whatsoever.

In that case, the bank would have to put the property up for auction again - and you would have to bear the costs of the earlier auction, as well as the first one.

What remedy are you seeking against the bank? Negligence? Breach of contract?

You must bear in mind also that the Bank still has the right to claim from you any shortfall from the proceeds from the auction - less legal fees, auction fees, interest, etc.

Let me do a bit of research on this and i'll get back to you in due course.

That instance may be likely, but very rare, in my humble opinion. Most banks would accept bankruptcy/land searches conducted up to 3 months back.

You have not provided us with much facts. However, I'm guessing that when the S&P was executed. the developer was in the process of getting the strata title issued in the name of the initial purchaser (now the vendor) - am I right?

Honestly, I don't think the issue of subdivision of the master title [from developer to owner] is a default which can nullify the agreement.

If the strata title is issued in the name of the initial owner (now the vendor), the vendor would surely have executed an undertaking to subsequently transfer ownership of the property to the subsequent purchaser. There is no issue there, really. The transaction can still be completed. The solicitor would have obtained the developer's letter of confirmation, where all details pertaining to application of the strata title would be stated therein.

So, to answer your question, there is no occurence of a default which would nullify the agreement.

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Added on November 22, 2010, 11:06 amGood point about PURPOSE of a land search and bankruptcy search.

Land search:

- initial search to determine if the vendor is indeed the REGISTERED PROPRIETOR of the propert;
- to determine if the property is free from encumbrances
- to determine if there are any other claims against the property - via caveats,etc
- to determine if there are any restrictions on the property with regard to transfer
- to determine if there are any restrictions as to the use of the property

In some cases, one land search would suffice. It is conducted by the purchaser BEFORE the agreement is executed. This search is MANDATORY. A purchaser who relies on the mere representation of the vendor (even if the vendor states it in the agreement) is looking for trouble.

Sometimes, the bank would require a search to be conducted AFTER the documents have been presented for registration, i.e. to ascertain that the title has been presented for registration in the borrower/purchaser's name AND that the charge in favour of the bank has also been presented.

In SOME instances, the official receipt issued by the land office is sufficient to assure the bank that it is safe to release the balance purchase price to the vendor, thus completing the transaction.

Thus, it depends on how strict the bank is. Therefore, in such scenario, TWO searches must be done - irrespective if you take one solicitor to handle the agreement and loan doc or otherwise.

Bankruptcy search:

- simple - to determine if the vendor/purchaser is an undischarged bankrupt at the time of execution of the agreement.
3 months is not a long time indeed. I ran a check with a senior practitioner who says that he's given searches conducted 6 months back, without any issues.

With the advent of CCRIS and CTOS, searches can be done further beyond the borrower's bankruptcy status - right up to the repayment records of the borrower with regard to other liabilities (car, previous loan, credit card) can be traced up to date at a click of a mouse.

Hope that puts things into perspective.






This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 22 2010, 11:06 AM

Jeff:



1) You would have to check with the vendor whether he is agreeable to allow the document to be dated 1st January 2011. You can sign the document at any time, but it can be dated later when it is stamped with the nominal RM10 fee. As long as you pay the deposit and sign the agreement, the date of the agreement shouldn't be any issue, unless the vendor is in a rush for the money. Talk to him and see how it goes.

2) The duration is very subjective and depends on a lot of factors - if the current property is unencumbered and the vendor has clean title, there will only be one advise for disbursement/release of the loan sum to the vendor. This will be the most easiest and straightforward manner. On the other end of the spectrum would be where the property is still encumbered - and there would be two disbursements/release:

a) Redemption sum - to redeem the vendor's loan from his financier; and
b) Balance loan sum - to be released to the vendor upon successful registration of the MOT (or perfection of Deed of Assignment) and charge/ DOA in favour of the purchaser's financier.

If documents go missing, eg the vendor's financier misplaces the original issue document of title for the property - the matter can be prolonger further.

Jeff,

Go through the earlier posts and you'll find a link where you can calculate s&p fees, loan doc fees and also stamp duty as well in one website.

With regard to banks paying for S&Ps, you would have to ask your agent. Different banks have different policies. As far I as know, they can include your legal fees for the loan doc in the loan, but for S&P, I'm not sure.

Good luck


This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 23 2010, 01:36 PM

Yes, as issuance of strata title in the name of the initial purchaser (now vendor) is not a condition precedent in your S&P/ Facilities Agreement (unless a perusal of it reveals otherwise). As long as the bank has some security documents in place, ie a Deed of Assignment, there ought to be no reason why they should withhold release of the loan.

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Added on November 24, 2010, 9:34 amNaing, have you sought any clarification from your lawyer? I'm sure you're represented as well. Is your wife a co-purchaser in the agreement?


This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 24 2010, 09:34 AM

In that case why don't you get your bank lawyer to advise you first, and if you have any enquiries, feel free to come back and pose it here. In the interim, you might want to confirm as to who has the duty to apply for state consent? You or the solicitor in the S&P?

1) and 2) is combined - you pay your S&P solicitor to do the transfer of title for you as well. Stamp duty for S&P is only RM10/copy, while stamp duty for transfer is the one which is more costly

3) is correct, but once again you may appoint your S&P solicitor to act on your behalf as well, thus saving some money on disbursements (expenses). Legal fees, however, are fixed.

Hope the above helps

Kochin,

If you notice the earlier posts, the advice rendered is limited to the specific charges and whether same is reasonable or otherwise.

If you need advice, please copy and paste the note of charges/ invoice given to you by the firm in order for us to take a look at it in detail.

The information given above is insufficient.

Cheers

There's no hard and fast rule. Some people can execute their S&P and move on with life until they get a call informing them that the keys to their new house are ready for collection. Some insist on calling every single day to find out the latest position. Most, however, are in between.

Basically you can follow up with your solicitor at the following stages:
1) After signing the S&P, to get a copy of the stamped agreement;
2) After you have executed your loan documentation with your loan solicitor, to find out if your loan solicitor has written to your solicitor and the vendor's solicitor/ vendor's existing financier;

3) To find out if the cheque for redemption of the vendor's loan has been issued;
4) To find out if the property has been redeemed and that the original title and duplicate charge has been handed over to your solicitor;

5) To enquire if the cheque for the balance purchase price has been issued to the vendor, thus completing the transaction so that you can collect your keys.

Can you be more specific? Can you post the whole invoice/note of charges here?