thanks...
what is the estimate value for all the lawyer fee for property price at 250k...
juz need to put aside the budget...
izit around 8k??

Perhaps even less if you decide to finance your legal fees for your loan documentation into your loan



This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jan 31 2011, 11:41 AM

What powers? Supernatural powers?



It would be very hard to dish out advice without having taken a look at all the documents in their possession.

But from what I gather, I think there's a good case for the purchasers.

If there's a letter by the developer consenting the purchasers to complete the construction on their own, all the better.

If not, I'd argue that the contract between the purchasers and developer has been vitiated by the subsequent conduct of both parties. The original sale and purchase agreement cease to exist and whatever payment made to the developer for work done (80%) shall be the final payment made.

Furthermore, they can rely on the fact that they had, on their own accord, spent good money to complete the construction. Thus, the developer cannot just turn around and claim for the balance payment. They are estopped from doing so by their own conduct. The developer did nothing to stop the purchasers from completing the project on their own. The purchasers had acted to their detriment by incurring their own costs and thus, the scales of justice ought to lean in their favour.

The developer would now have to execute the MOT to transfer ownership to the respective purchasers.

So, the purchasers would need a declaration from the court that the original S&P is null and void and of no further effect. Then they need a mandatory injunction to compel the developer to execute the MOTs, failing which the Senior Assistant Registrar would be authorised to execute same on their behalf.

Very sketchy advice based on the information given. Humble apologies.

There is two legel document here.

One is Loan agreement, it has to use panel lawyer, and it quote me as 56XX. It has no detail which he said it is 2.5% of the loan amt. This all for loan legal right? no other fee anymore?

Another is the S&P.

Heyyy, Bro,.. thank you again for the heavenly words.

I think what you have mentioned is all there is to it, and well, the only documents that matter here is the Surrender Letter from the developer to the purchasers. NO other documents.

Hence, I would think your advice would be wholesome and complete, unless of course the developer starts to argue on the words inside the Surrender Letter. Anyway, there is no mention inside the Surrender Letter that the purchasers will still need to pay-up the remaining 20% before the developer will complete the MOT for them. The purchasers told me that the following sentence inside the 3-page letter would be vital to argue for the MOT :-

The developer said in the letter that :-

We have to surrender the above units to the purchasers at existing condition for them to complete their units as requested by them, since construction work cannot be resumed within the stipulated time frame confirmed during our meeting.

The keyword here would be : surrender.

Any other opinions, bro ? One thing though : I wonder what's the point of the developer trying to fight a case that they cannot win ? Unless they think they can still wrestle the remaining 20% from the purchasers, but we can see here that they do not have a strong case.

Still has to be itemised. How can he just say 2.5%.

Hansel:


Still vague as the developer did not waive their right to claim for the balance of the purchase price yet to be disbursed in the letter. However, in the absence of anything in black and white we would have to look at the intention of the parties. Intention can be gauged from their conduct, act and/or ommissions. If we go by that basis, the purchasers would definitely have a stronger case. Not 100%, of course, but strong.

In the Schedule G agreement, this is what the remaining 20% balance is for:

On the date the Purchaser takes vacant possession of
the said Building, with water and electricity supply
ready for connection 12.5%

Within twenty-one (21) working days after receipt by
the Purchaser or the Purchaser’s solicitors of the
separate document of title to the said Lot together with a
valid and registrable Memorandum of Transfer to the
Purchaser duly executed by the Vendor or on the date
the Purchaser takes vacant possession of the said
Building, whichever is later. 2.5%

On the date the Purchaser takes vacant possession of the
said Building as in item 3 and to be held by the Vendor's
solicitor as stakeholder for payment to the Vendor as
follows:-
(a) two point five per centum (2.5%) at the expiry
of six (6) months after the date the Purchaser
takes vacant possession of the said Building;
(b) two point five per centum (2.5%) at the expiry
of eighteen (18) months after the date the
Purchaser takes vacant possession of the said
Building If you want me to play the Devil's Advocate and now argue on the developer's behalf, I would say that the balance 20% has nothing to do with the construction of the property. All that would've been paid out in the 80%. As such, whether the purchasers wanted to complete the project on their own is entirely up to them.

12.5% is to be paid when VP is given. Another 2.5% when MOT is ready to be executed. The other 7.5% is basically during the defect liability period (DLP). Assuming that the purchaser now refuses to pay the balance 20%, I doubt that DLP will still apply. Thus, there would be no DLP guarantee by the developer. Any defects would have to be rectified by the purchasers at their own cost.

The purchasers cannot, as the old adage goes, 'run with the hare and hunt with the hounds'. If they refuse to pay the 20%, they forego the DLP as well.

Bro,... what you mentioned has been deliberated by me to them earlier - this is what they told me - No VP was given by the developer, no electricity and water supply, no DLP, and no CF application. All these were done and managed by the purchasers themselves. In all actuality, that 20% is actually void for the developer has not performed their part in order to qualify for the 20%. No architect's certificate to certify anything at all.

So, that should do the trick, what do you think ?

Hi,

I am a foreigner and is on the verge of sellling my property.

My lawyer was telling me he need to withhold 2% of the selling price as tax.

Isn't it 5% on the net profit? I am shock when he told me it's 2% of the selling price as i am a foreigner.

Is this true?

Thanks for any advise.

Hi to all,

I am new here and have few question regarding the tax when performing a subsale.

1)Is it a 2% of our SPA will be charge and send to LHDN during a subsale?
2) is it a must to send the 2% to LHDN?
3) when will the 2% is charge?
4)After that property gain tax will be charging 5% on profit which is less than 5 years?

Tq for your reply.

I came across two properties and I am interested to purchase them. However an issue has hold me back and not sure if I can proceed. The agent said I must pay cash $ 30K as under table but upon signing the S&P the house value price is lower. When I asked him if I can settle at developer office and he said no but at a law firm. The amount paid is all inclusive. I have to take out a sum of $90k cash for these 2 properties.
Is this a normal practice to pay under table when buying properties? The agent said he is appointed by the developer to sell the units.
-------------------------------------------------------
Another case is an auction property.
Let's said I have successfully bidding a property and have done all the necessary legal paper works and documentation. Hence the property is mine. Out of sudden an Along came to claim the property because the previous owner had owed the Along money. As a buyer, what can I do?

1) 2% deposit will be withheld by the purchaser's solicitor to be remitted to LHDN unless you fill up Form CKHT 3 and select one of the exceptions
i) you have owned the property for a period of 5 years and above;
ii) you are applying for a total exemption of CKHT (one exemption in your lifetime is allowed);
iii) you are selling at a loss; OR
iv) you are disposing off the property as a gift without any consideration.

2) See above.

3) It will be withheld from the balance deposit - so assuming that the balance deposit is 8%, you will only receive 6%.

4) Basically the 2% is paid to LHDN, unless you fill up CKHT3 above, and you would also have to fill up Form CKHT1A to be submitted together.

Form CKHT1A will detail your expenditure for the property - renovations, legal fees, etc. So the 5% is nett gain (after deducting legal fees, reno,etc) and not the rough gain.

If there is any excess from the 2%, LHDN will reimburse you that excess sum later on.

Hope that clarifies things.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Feb 1 2011, 02:40 PM

Section 6 of the Real Property Gains Tax Act 1967 does not discriminate between resident and non-resident.

It is 5% of the nett gain and not 2% of the purchase price. Maybe the lawyer did not explain the procedure properly.

See my answer to the above similar query as the same rule would apply to you as well.

The fact that the phrase 'under table' is mentioned I think you have answered your question yourself. Is it normal to pay under table money when doing anything legal? Think about it.



You are the registered proprietor of the land and thus, your title is undefeasible, unless it is obtained by fraud or forgery. Mr Ah Long has no right over the property. Tell him that you bought if from an auction and that you have no connections whatsoever with the previous owner. Lodge a police report for your own protection if he starts threatening you.

Good! It seems like they've got all bases covered. Now to sit down and play the game of legal chess.

Hi Dario,

Thanks for the clear explanation.

I am just wondering why LHDN will want to withhold so much (2% of selling price) when end of the day we are only paying 5% of the net gain.

May i ask if the exemption clause (ii) is applicable to foreigner WHICH is one exemption in your lifetime is allowed? I doubt so right.

Lastly, when will LHDN reimburse us back the excess sum since we are paying so much more in advance to them.

Thanks.

Thanks DarioFoo,

Thanks for your kind reply but i still have a few question to ask.

1) CKHT 3 means? In full name?
2) Where to Get the form of CKHT 3? Provided by Lawyer or LHDN?
3) Will the form submit to LHDN and get approval from them?
4) If let say I am selling the property in a loss within 5 years, so the result will be?
5) For submitting the CKHT1A, do i need to submit all cost for renovations, legal fees in Black and White?

Lastly, are you a lawyer?
If you are, do you mind send me a private message of your firm name, address and contact number?

Thanks

Yooo,.. bro, all set for the Rabbit ?

Thank you for your advice, you know I read your postings, there was one posting just before mine where you wrote the below verse :-

You are the registered proprietor of the land and thus, your title is undefeasible, unless it is obtained by fraud or forgery. Mr Ah Long has no right over the property. Tell him that you bought if from an auction and that you have no connections whatsoever with the previous owner. Lodge a police report for your own protection if he starts threatening you.

Could it be that the Developer here is sing the above sentence (bolded) to twist the poor purchasers' arms ? Since it is said that the registered proprietor's land title is indefeasible, so the developer stands tall with this statement, and even when they have not fulfilled their end of the S&P, they would still want to squeeze out every drop of the money (full purchase price) ?

And this is even on top of the fact that the property has been surrendered officially via a letter (with witnesses) to this group of purchasers.

Could it be this 'indefeasible idea' that is being carried in the mind by the 'other group of lawyers who said no' ?

I've no idea,mate. Best be thankful that it wasn't 5% of the selling price, right?

Yes it is applicable across the board to citizens, non-citizens, PR, etc. Your doubts has been proven wrong! Rejoice!

Can't say for sure. Within a few months, normally.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Feb 2 2011, 06:40 PM

Gong Xi Fa Cai to all forum members and loyal followers of Lawyers' Corner. Will be taking a short break for CNY and will be back in a few days' time to answer all outstanding questions and unresolved issues!