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TSdariofoo
post Mar 16 2011, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(Xforged @ Mar 16 2011, 12:02 AM)
Lol, I'm no mind reader, certainly not a mind freak tongue.gif probably share the same sentiment as yours. at the end, its not the highs or the lows of the fees.. its a matter of principle behind it. As far as disbursements goes (and being Malaysian myself  laugh.gif ) I would think its just and 'fair' given the magnitude of such requests to the solicitors. After all, its probably a win-win. Purchasers wants it fast, Solicitors wants to get it done. Strike a balance and arrive amicably at mid-point with some consideration is fine, i think. Personally, I think its best not to ponder over it as long as principles were adhered. 

Anyway, I shall advise my friend to put an eye on item 2 & 3. For item 4 & 5, what can I say tongue.gif My friend could find out more from them but I'm sure the house will win! Really, thanks Dario for putting it all together as always, cheers and have a good day  notworthy.gif
*
Alright,mate. Glad to help.

Hope all goes well for your friend.

Cheers. icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 16 2011, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(@Adele @ Mar 16 2011, 02:18 PM)
The cheque she already took back. Does the constitue as acceptance? She didn't bank in yet.

Yes, there is a clause in the letter. But now seller is trying to ignore this, and I guess refuse to pay. She doesn't want to buy the house anymore, but she is asking for compensation. Hence, the demand letter to the seller, which the seller ignored.

Her question is this, the S&P is not signed as seller can't be contacted. However the 21 days is already over. Can she still seek compensation or lawsuit against the seller? She did ask around, it seems she can caveat the property or something.

Appreciate your advise, thank you.
*
Two options now:

1) Sue for the balance 2% sum as compensation;
2) Sue for specific performance to compel the vendor to sell the property based on the letter of offer.

If you go for option 1, then keep the cheque and go for the balance sum. Remember, you can't caveat the property if you go for this option as you do not have any caveatable interest which you are actively pursuing over the property - your damages can be calculated and has nothing to do with the land.

If option 2, then return the cheque, and sue for specific performance. Once the suit is filed, lodge a caveat over the property, as ultimately, you have a caveatable interest over the property and you need to keep it caveated until the completion of the suit.

Be wary about lodging caveats - a lot of people do not understand the effect of it and the repercussions upon you if you wrongfully lodge a caveat. They take it lightly and think of it as simply to 'put pressure' on the vendor to settle. That is utter rubbish and will ultimately backfire if you are not pursuing your caveatable interest over the property.

Go back to the letter of offer and read the terms - if it says after 21 days, no S&P is signed, of course the whole things lapses. Whose fault is it? If vendor, then the purchaser will use one of the options above to assert his rights.

That's about it.

TSdariofoo
post Mar 16 2011, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(lolikid @ Mar 16 2011, 03:42 PM)
Dunno whether is there anyone can help here. Just try my luck and share my bad experience here.

I was eyed on a condo and decide to buy the unit. Owner and i deal all the way through agent. Owner is located in UK and this property was take care by his brother who stay in KL. I've paid deposit 3% and sign for the booking forms, for the owner part agent email owner the document to sign and then owner email back to us. Once this booking form done, we proceed to lawyer for SPA. We both (owner and i) using the same lawyer. 2 weeks later, lawyer ready with thr SPA and owner rushing lawyer to pass the document to his relative who is going to visit owner is few days later, so lawyer just pass over the document. Once the document reach UK which is owner's hand, owner suddenly decide not to sell the condo to me. Owner verbally or sms inform the lawyer and agent as well.

Ok, since owner black out and advise from lawyer is owner need to write a letter said that he want to terminate this deal with me. But owner slowly disappear which lawyer and agent unable to get him at all. I suppose to claim back my deposit and compensation from owner but now i do not know what to do at all. Lawyer did write a letter to owner which giving 2 weeks time to response back to us, if he fail to do so we will automatically assume he cancel the deal.

What i heard from agent is my 3% deposit is still with the agent. Agent agree to give it back to me only when owner write the termination letter to me. And now agent trying to avoid the responsibility to reimburse compensation for me from the owner. Agent just throw me the words with if u wan to get back the compensation you go find lawyer and sue owner. I was wonder is it agent suppose to help me reimburse compensation from owner???? I did talk to agency's principle, at first he seem willing to help on this case but after he discuss with the agent, he feedback me the same things like the agent. Ask me go find lawyer sue the owner if i want get back my compensation. Principle said if huge amount then he will try to help me fight back my compensation. Even my 3% compensation is just RM7k doesn't mean i cant get the same services like those who buying 1million property??

Now i was thinking to go association to complain about this agency with this kind of services their provided to me. Anyone can give me some advise what should i do to get back my compensation? Very appreciate if you can share to me. Thanks!
*
What does the letter of offer to purchase say? There should be a clause which says that if the sale is aborted before execution of S&P then the deposit would be refunded to the purchaser (you). The agent merely holds it as a stakeholder. He has no right to retain it. Unless your letter of offer to purchase reflects otherwise. You are bound by what you sign.

I would advise that you ask your lawyer to write a letter of demand to the agent as well and give them 48 hours to refund the monies to you, failing which you will lodge a police report, file an official complaint with the Board etc. Am sure they will back down and return it to you.

Details of the Board:

The Board of Valuers, Appraisers and Estate Agents Malaysia
A-27-15 Level 27,
Menara UOA Bangsar,
No. 5 Jalan Bangsar Utama 1,
Bangsar,
59000 Kuala Lumpur.

________________________________________

Tel : 03-2288 8815/ 2288 8816/ 2288 8817
Fax : 03-22888819
________________________________________

Opening Hours
Monday-Thursday
8.00am - 5.00pm
Friday
8.00am - 12.15pm, 2.45pm - 5.00pm

http://www.lppeh.gov.my/

Hope the above helps
TSdariofoo
post Mar 17 2011, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(@Adele @ Mar 16 2011, 07:07 PM)
lolikid: your plight sounds exactly like the friend of mine! except agent willing to give back the cheque. However, they also said the same thing like .. 'u want your money/compensation, u go sue the owner la'. And refuse to do anything further.

dariofoo: thanks for the advise. Got one more question: If we can't caveat the property, how can we ensure the seller pay the compensation? If she sues, and seller just ignore.. she'll be wasting her time and money for nothing?
*
That is why her lawyer ought to advise on all the eventualities. No point getting a paper judgment and nothing else to show for all the money spent on legal fees pursuing the matter. At end of the day, it would be like 'spending good money chasing bad money'.

nod.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 17 2011, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(Mlchoo @ Mar 16 2011, 08:49 PM)
HELP!!! My uncle just sold his shop but his long time tenant refuses to leave. For about half a yr now, they did not sign rental agreement as my uncle had the intention to sell his place. So out of goodwill, they verbally agreed to continue on a monthly basis. Now tenant is claiming he has nowhere to go and he can take up to a yr or more to move out.
 
Anyone can advise what course of action my uncle can undertake to evict this difficult tenant? Thanks.
 
1. Can report police that tenant is overstaying without agreement? He has been paying minimal rent and my uncle has been issuing him with a monthly receipt. What if my uncle stops collecting his rent with immediate effect and report police?
2. What about serving him with a new agreement at a high rent and if tenant doesn't want to sign, that constitutes he is unwilling to be my uncle's tenant any longer?
3. Is there such a court order that can be taken to lock up the whole place? Caveat or something?
4. I heard someone mentioning about bailiff? Can this help?
*
1. You can lodge a police report but it is unlikely that the police will intervene as it is a civil matter.

2. You can serve an agreement on him, but if he doesn't want to execute it, you can't force him. And NO, it does not "constitutes he is unwilling to be my uncle's tenant any longer".

3. You would have to appoint a lawyer to serve him an eviction notice (with a demand for unpaid rental) - 1 month's notice to surrender vacant possession as he is not a trespasser, but a tenancy-holding-over. A monthly tenancy, so to speak. Once the eviction notice lapses, your lawyer would file an application for an order to evict the tenant. If upon being served with the order, he still refuses to move out, then your lawyer would seek the assistance of the Court bailiff to evict him. That would be the whole procedure.

You can't lock up the place nor can you file a caveat. Why caveat anyway when it is your uncle's own property?

4. Bailiff would come in when the tenant still refuses to leave upon being served with the Court order.

Hope the above helps. Cheers.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Mar 17 2011, 09:48 AM
TSdariofoo
post Mar 18 2011, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(logezzz @ Mar 17 2011, 07:29 PM)
Hi Mr. DarioFoo,

Need help from you guys.

Sequential of problems:

1) I resigned early of February.

2) I booked an apartment by giving deposit rm4.5k to the agent and signed the booking form. In the booking form i put
special condition stated "Deposit fully refundable if loan is not approve". Both of us agreed on that but the owner don't know that i resigned at that time.

3) My loan rejected due to fail at employer verification at my company since i resigned.

4) Owner refused to refund the deposit since she knows the reason of rejection which is i resigned before booked the apartment.

Explanation:

1) First of all i don't know that bank will do employer verification.

2) I resigned and hope to get another job offer letter from other company but unfortunately i didn't get it. So, initially i thought that i able to get loan since i going to get the offer letter. Besides, i tried to get loan from other bank using my registered enterprise company but i still couldn't get any loan.

Since i already put a special condition like deposit is refundable, the owner must honor that terms since he has already sign it no matter what is the reason of rejection. If i know, the loan sure will reject, even i myself won't waste time to pay deposit and waiting for the loan approval.

I urgently need experts or lawyers advice on this problem since this problem just happened and the amount forfeited is quite a lot for me. Thanks

I attached the booking form as well.

Desperately need advice,
Loges   rclxub.gif
*
Loges,

As far as the letter of offer to purchase is concerned, the special condition inserted therein clearly states:
Deposit fully refundable if loan is not approve

It just cannot get any clearer than that. It does not matter WHY the loan was not approved. It does not matter that you did had resigned from your job when you applied for the loan.

Nothing else can be read into the contract apart from what is written in black and white and signed by all parties.

Deposit fully refundable if loan is not approve is as clear as it can get. Your loan was not approved, so the vendor has to return your deposit.

Write in formally to the agent (whom I assume ought to still be holding the deposit as stakeholder) to request for it back as per the terms of the letter of offer to purchase - failing which you initiate legal proceedings to recover same. RM4.5K is a lot of money and I would advise you to pursue this all the way.

Cheers,mate

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Mar 18 2011, 10:15 AM
TSdariofoo
post Mar 18 2011, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(bryan_x00 @ Mar 17 2011, 10:27 PM)
Dear all,

Below is the quotation for my bank loan (360k) legal and stamp duty:
facilities agreement 2,970
deed of assignment 297
power of attorney 297
6% tax 213.84

stamp duty - facilities agreement 1,800, 3 copies of FA 30, deed of assignment 40, power of attorney 40, statutory declaration 20, letter of offer 10

registration fee - filing of power of attorney 60

disbursements - affirming statutory declaration fee 28, bankrupty searches 48, land &cavaet search 90, developer's confirmation 100, documents fee 150, misc - photostating / stationery - 50, courier / postage 30, fax/telephone/binding 50, transport & travelling 150.

Is the charges reasonable? I believe I still can ask for lower fee but where to deduct?

Thanks.
*
Scaled fees are alright.

Developer's confirmation is normally RM50. Land search would normally cost RM30-60. The rest seems fair. nod.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 18 2011, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(logezzz @ Mar 18 2011, 11:15 AM)
Thanks for your advice and confident your gave to me.

I just called the vendor on this matter and she told me that she already asked the agent to refund to me back one week ago.    sweat.gif  vmad.gif

But the agent told me the other way around that owner forfeited it.

How can i proceed sir? Thanks
*
Can't be. Surely the agent is still holding the cheque.

I suggest that you lodge a complaint against the agent here:

Details of the Board:

The Board of Valuers, Appraisers and Estate Agents Malaysia
A-27-15 Level 27,
Menara UOA Bangsar,
No. 5 Jalan Bangsar Utama 1,
Bangsar,
59000 Kuala Lumpur.

________________________________________

Tel : 03-2288 8815/ 2288 8816/ 2288 8817
Fax : 03-22888819
________________________________________

Opening Hours
Monday-Thursday
8.00am - 5.00pm
Friday
8.00am - 12.15pm, 2.45pm - 5.00pm

http://www.lppeh.gov.my/



TSdariofoo
post Mar 18 2011, 12:26 PM

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QUOTE(zigot14 @ Mar 18 2011, 10:41 AM)
Hi dario,

just need to make a quick check if legal fee RM5241 for a loan of RM260000 is reasonable?

how is this usually calculated?

thanks.
*
Hard to advise unless you provide the breakdown. smile.gif

Legal fees for loan is the same scaled fees as for S&P. The link to calculate it ought to be somewhere in the few last pages of this thread. smile.gif

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Mar 18 2011, 12:27 PM
TSdariofoo
post Mar 18 2011, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(zigot14 @ Mar 18 2011, 01:18 PM)
Got it thanks.

just to double confirm tho - the 50% off stamp duty for first home owners, only applicable for S&P right? Not for loan?

terima kasih
*
Applicable for S&P only. nod.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 19 2011, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(-elena- @ Mar 18 2011, 07:53 PM)
Hi dariofoo, 1st time house owner here. Need to seek your professional advise. Hope you can help.

Just got the keys to my house. But I'm afraid my lawyer didn't do a good and thorough job.

I bought a double-storey which has extension. The extension has approval docs.

1)In my s&p, there are no approval docs.
2)Also not attached quit rent/accessment docs.

My lawyer is the kind that is very slow, doesn't respond to my e-mails or sms-es. Finally got him, I asked him for the docs. He said he doesn't have the approved docs, but has quit rent/accessment docs which he will send over. So I ask him, how do I pay the quit rent/accessment? Is the quit rent/accessment already transferred under my name? He said no. I asked him how and where to transfer then? He said he's also not sure. Asked me to go myself to check in the land office or something.

I'm honestly surprised. I have a few questions:

1) Besides the obvious s&p to be signed, how to know the title is already transferred to my name?
2) Shouldn't my lawyer do all these transfers for me?
3) How come lawyer doesn't make sure docs are in order and can ask client to sign s&p?

I'm afraid he didn't do a good job? And next time when I want to sell will meet trouble?

Appreciate your advise.
*
1) Is it the same solicitor who acted for you for your loan documentation? I'm assuming you're not a cash purchaser. In any event, your loan solicitor would present the title for registration in your favour. Once the title is out, the original must be handed over to your financier for safekeeping, and usually, a photostat would be given to you for your reference. That title would clearly state your name as the registered proprietor of the property.

2) If you're referring to transfer of ownership with regard to quit rent and assessment, then no. Unless it is specifically stated for in the agreement, there is no duty for the solicitor to do all those for you. At the very least he ought to advise you and not just say 'not sure' or asked you to check yourself. That is quite unprofessional.

In any event, you can sort it all out yourself. May have to take half-day leave to do all the running around.

3) What do you mean by docs are in order? If docs are not in order you would not have the keys to your new house. With regard to reno approval plans, etc, that is essentially your own duty and obligation to get it from the vendor, and not your lawyer's. It is for your safekeeping at the end of the day, in the event the local authorities come knocking to check if you had the relevant approval and plans.

There would not be any trouble for you when you want to sell in the future - as long as the title has been registered in your favour, the charge has been registered in favour of your financier, the loan has been fully disbursed, etc. There's nothing more to worry about, really. Enjoy the new home. nod.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 19 2011, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Mar 18 2011, 02:00 PM)
This process is well-explained, bro,... thank you. On another note, what if it has been specifically mentioned in the Tenancy Agreement that the Landlord has the right to lock the doors and prevent the Tenant from accessing the premises if certain rules have been broken ?

Then wouldn't the right to lock-up be there after that ?
*
Interesting point. But such rules have to be clearly stated, and who is to judge that such rules have been broken, thus allowing the landlord such drastic recourse. It would have to be more detailed than just 'If the tenant fail to xxxx, then the landlord has the right to xxxxx'

If I were the tenant I wouldn't sign such agreement. smile.gif

TSdariofoo
post Mar 19 2011, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(Mlchoo @ Mar 19 2011, 09:17 AM)
Thanks very much for your clear explanation. They have met buyer and his lawyer. Buyer willing to wait. Lawyer advised the same as you ie serve eviction notice. Just hope matter won't drag on too long. They also going to cut water/ electricity.
*
Hope the lawyer didn't advise you that cutting the electricity/water is legal sweat.gif
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post Mar 19 2011, 07:08 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Mar 19 2011, 01:43 PM)
Bro,.. I believed the decider here should be very simple, and no two-ways about it - if the tenant does not pay-up by a certain number of days from the 1st of the month, then the recourse, though drastic, would have been granted to the landlord. That's the ONLY and the basic rule, that's all. Sorry for saying this, but how much more detailed could it get ?

What method of judgement needs to be in-between ?

I'll add another term into the Tenancy Agreement too : if the rental is not paid by (when...), the Landlord will have the right to TERMINATE the Utility Supplies.
*
Bro, in your earlier post, you said, "On another note, what if it has been specifically mentioned in the Tenancy Agreement that the Landlord has the right to lock the doors and prevent the Tenant from accessing the premises if certain rules have been broken"

Emphasis added at the end there whereby my understanding was that there were some sort of house rules for the tenant to follow. As such, my reply to that was that such rules much be detailed and the way such rule would be deemed to be breached by the tenant must also be detailed.

Now you've zoomed in and stated that if the tenant does not pay-up - you've focused on that one breach. You're not referring to 'certain rules' anymore.

So now you see why we're at crossroads,buddy? biggrin.gif

Well, if the tenant fails to pay up, I think that goes to the root of the tenancy agreement itself and the remedy is to elect to terminate the contract, right? Why waste time to cut utilities, etc? I don't think it is just easy to just disconnect and re-connect utilities with a mere phone call. I'm sure there would be re-connection fees as well. And what if the authorities are slow to re-connect once the tenant has paid up? Who's going to responsible for the fact that the property has no electricity/water? Wouldn't the landlord then be guilty of fulfilling his side of the bargain? Wouldn't the tenant then have a cause of action against the landlord for breach of contract?

That's why I think it would be too messy to go that way - cutting off utililities when there's unpaid rental.
TSdariofoo
post Mar 19 2011, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Mar 19 2011, 01:45 PM)
New owner should have such rights, right ?
*
Before the new owner has such rights, the vendor (and currently the reluctant landlord) first has to surrender vacant possession to the owner. As such, the duty to evict lies with the vendor. The vendor can't just terminate the utilities and say that he's no longer the owner of the property - he only ceases to be the owner once vacant posession has been handed over - and VC must obviously be without the troublesome tenants holding over. smile.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 19 2011, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(-elena- @ Mar 19 2011, 01:47 PM)
Thank you.

Yes the same lawyer did the loan agreement. However, he did not give me a photostat copy of the title for reference. Can I again, asked him for it?

Also, can anyone kindly advise me where to do the transfer of quit rent and accessment? Is it different mukim , different bandar, different land office?
*
Yes, of course you may ask him for it. You must, in fact, as it is proof of ownership. It will also reflect the land office where your title is registered, so that you can hop over there and fill up the change of name form - with regard to quit rent.

With regard to assessment - it would be the local councils - something like MPPJ, MPKj, MPS - you can tell from the assessment receipt if not from the address of the property itself, to be honest. There would be a change of name form to be filled up and submitted as well.

And you'd be done. smile.gif
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post Mar 21 2011, 12:58 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Mar 20 2011, 12:39 PM)
Bro,.. yes, understood on both points,...

For the first point : I was mentioning about a set of house rules earlier, and later I spoke about a single term instead,... hence you were talking about the set of rules, thanks for clarifying,...

For the second point : I think if the tenant has breached the single term being the mode of rental payment, then  everything should kick-in, namely cutting of utilities and re-accessing premises - no need to think so much anymore. After that, whatever else that takes place is to be borne by the tenant. And all these need to be written out nicely in the Tenancy Agreement for the prospective tenant to see, in order to be fair to them.
*
Hansel,

A common clause which is inserted in tenancy agreements would be that failure to pay rental on time as agreed would allow the landlord the option to terminate the agreement and evict the tenant. Shouldn't that 'power' be better than the option to cut electricity and re-accessing premises, as you stated?

Just terminate the troublesome tenant and move on with life. Get a new tenant. Instead of wasting time to disconnect/reconnect water/electricity.
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post Mar 21 2011, 01:07 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Mar 20 2011, 12:45 PM)
Wahh,... if like that, then the new owner is truly at the mercy of the previous owner and the tenant. If both sides do not perform their functions, or even one side fails to perform his/her function, the owner is in trouble.

It's difficult enough to handle one party, now the new owner has to contend with two parties.
*
New owner (purchaser) has nothing to worry about as he waits for vacant posession of the premises. However, in reality, when there is a troublesome tenant occupying the premises, or if the premises is the subject of ongoing litigation - nobody would touch it at all. Who would want to buy trouble? smile.gif
TSdariofoo
post Mar 21 2011, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(-elena- @ Mar 21 2011, 10:53 AM)
Hi dariofoo, Called up my lawyer, however he said does not have a copy of the title.

I asked him 'why'? and how can the bank release the money without having the original title? He said it is based on a receipt from the land office. He does not have the title yet, not sure whether he follow-ed up to get the title. And bank also did not receive the title yet. I ask him without the title, how do i know it already transferred to my name? he said based on the receipt.

may i know ur advise? is this right?
and how long does it take for the original title to be transferred from one name to the other usually?
*
True. The receipt is for presentation for registration. It would take a bit of time for the actual title deed to be issued. As to how long - it depends on the efficiency of the land office concerned. Perhaps you can follow up again in 2 weeks' time.
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post Mar 21 2011, 01:15 PM

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QUOTE(-elena- @ Mar 21 2011, 01:12 PM)
it's been over 3 months. Just wondering, does it usually take so long? As I have a friend whose title for double storey came up within 2 weeks.
*
3 months from date of presentation for registration?! Are you sure? That's quite long. Even the bank would be chasing them for the original title by now.

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