In Penang Hokkien, Sikhs are called "bangkali". AFAIK as I know, there is no word for real Bengalis.

1) Is this true of other Chinese dialects in Malaysia

2) What about outside Malaysia

3) What about other Malaysian languages

4) What is the reason for this confusion

Bengalis are people from Bengal. Bangkali sounded similar to Bengali because the "beng" sound is not common in chinese. It is the same as asking if "roti" is the same for all chinese dialect. While roti may be used by all chinese dialects in Malaysia to refer to bread, the chinese word for roti is "mian bao". I am not sure how indians will refer to Bengalis. I believe it would be similar. After all it is the name of a state in India where these people came from. How many way you think people will refer to Johoreans or Kelantanese. I am sure the sound sylabble "Jo" and "hor" will be intact no matter what language.

Some call them "mang-ka-li" in chinese dialect.
It is just some weird pronunciations.

Sorry I wasn't clearer. I thought everybody knew ...

Bengalis would be people living Bengal. "a historical and geographical region in the northeast region of the Indian Subcontinent" as wikipedia puts it. Now Bangladesh + West Bengal.

Punjab (where Sikhs live), is on the other side of India, about 2000km away.

Now I am confuse. What is you topic actually?

Well, in short, most people in Malaysia get confused.
I for one can't tell which is Punjabi or Bengali. It never crossed my mind.
We are just so used to the name "Bangkali" or "Mangkali".
This is an interesting topic.

P/S It is just like we call Indonesian "Indon" without really knowing they are Javanese, Bugis etc.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Oct 13 2010, 03:33 PM

Indonesian is country people. Javenese, Bugis, Chinese, Malay, Boyan, Acheh, Madura(Really scary one) are RACES.

Bengali ada misai panjang kot haha.

This post has been edited by SkywalkerxX: Oct 13 2010, 03:52 PM

Before I write my apologies to the Sikhs. I do not mean any insults.

I think it is the turban. Sikhs wear turbans. As I understand it, it a religious thing to wear a turban. Bengalis also wear turbans. I guess they had a strong turkish and arabic influence being closer to those nations.

The actual Bengali you are referring is what we know now as "Bangla". Bangladeshis do not wear turban and most of them are Muslims.

Punjabi is an ethnic/race but Sikhs is a religious group of that consists mainly Punjabis.

Naruto,
Perhaps they did during the colonial days.

hmm from the Indian history books I've read, there are minority Punjabis who lived in Bangladesh (well, there was no Bangladesh at that time, refer to the area you've explained earlier).

From such knowledge, many Chinese immigrants (well, referring to that time) thought that they are the "Bengali" because they did come from Bengal (modern day Bangladesh) region - while in fact, they are minority Punjabi living in that mentioned region.

Bangla is bangla dude. Bengali is different.

but your second sentence make sense, it is better we ask Punjabi and Bengali.

I initially thought this is a silly reason. If there are Sikhs in Bengal, and some of them came to Malaya. Why did we call them Bengali when (1) most Bengalis in Bengal are not Sikhs (2) most Sikhs in Malaya did not come from Bengal.

Then I found this article here http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file...81336&sec=north which answers some of my original questions. Their informal poll shows that nearly all Malaysians (though I suspect they conduct their poll only in KL) use "Bengali" to refer to "Sikhs". However it leaves two other questions still unanswered.

1) do other communities outside Malaysia similarly use "Bengali" to refer to "Sikhs"? What about in Sabah and Sarawak.

2) how did this mistake arose? It seems that the reason you put out is the best we have so far. However, I would like to know if you did read/hear this somewhere, or is it just conjecture on your part.

Since I opened the thread, I've learnt that using "Bengali" to refer to Sikhs is incorrect. Normal English language usage tells us that a Bengali is a person who comes from Bengal. For example, a Pakistani is a person from Pakistan. Punjabi is also the wrong term since not all people from Punjab are Sikhs (although 60% of Indian Punjab are Sikhs).

Bengali are not sinkhs.

A Sikh is a follower of Sikhis religion while Bengali people are an ethnic community native to the historic region of Bengal (now divided between Bangladesh and India) in South Asia.

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Added on October 14, 2010, 8:56 amPunjabi are people from Punjabs

This post has been edited by Potatojii: Oct 14 2010, 08:56 AM

so... is Benggali is an offensive term? i think its offensive, i never dare to say the word Benggali to my Sikh friends

Oh, you just got their ethnicity wrong... even more incorrect, Sikh is a religious group, not an ethnic.

why then we call Portuguese as Benggali Putih.... they are not from Bengal

because Malaccan thought they are from India... well the first Portugese visited Malacca came from Goa.

For what I know Sikh is a religion and Punjab is a place
Anyone can be a Sikh but Punjabi is people who comes from Punjab

I not know about what benggali is
Roti benggali I know

Mereka di gelar Benggali Putih sebab bermisai dan berjanggut.

Paraphrasing from my history book.

This post has been edited by faceless: Oct 15 2010, 09:49 AM

IM A PUNJABI AND ALSO SIKH GUY................SIKH IS A RELIGION AND PUNJABI IS RACE........BENGGALI I HAVE NO *U****** IDEA . ANYWAYS THOSE CLOWNS TO THINK AND ALSO CALL US BENGGALI.....SHOULD GO AND READ A BOOK FIRST AND FIND OUT ITS LIKE CALLING A TIGER KITTY!


FOR YOUR INFO PUNJABI IS ALSO A LANGUAGE AND PUNJAB IS THE BIGGEST STATE IN INDIA.

This post has been edited by harvin6: Oct 15 2010, 09:21 AM

Bengali is a person from Bengal (north-east India + Bangladesh, IINM there is a state of West Bengal now in India).

Someone mentions earlier in this thread that there are Sikhs there too. Some of the earlier Sikh migrants into Malaya may have came from Bengal. Due to the turban and beard, they look very different from other people in Malaya. They stand out. The locals then got confused and started calling all Sikhs "Bengali", even those who came from Punjab.

I've asked him if this is just conjecture, or he heard/read it somewhere, but he didn't reply.

BTW: isn't the largest state in India Rajasthan (by area), Madhya Pradesh (until it was split recently), Uttar Pradesh (by population).

Now I wonder why Indians are called Keling. Anyone has a decent speculation.

Malays have been calling Indians (anyone from India or Indian descent) as Keling for centuries.

In the old days - India is known as "Benua Keling" (southern India to be exact)

Kamus Dewan Bahasa has full explanation:
http://prpm.dbp.gov.my/Search.aspx?k=keling

Possible reference is Kalinga.

This post has been edited by najminaruto: Oct 21 2010, 06:58 PM

Thanks Naruto,

So, it is actually Inida's old name during the Kalinga empire.

I am intrigued by the other explaination in the link you gave
"keling I - IB paku besi yg berkepala dua (utk melekatkan dua keping besi); mengeling melekatkan (menyatukan) besi dgn menggunakan keling."

if keling and benggali is nothing offensive then why some people got butthurt?

usually used to curse or degrade people. it evolved into a swear word.

Keling was never meant to degrade Indians or Indians descents...
In the old days, it was never derogatory, in fact it's the correct word for someone who is Indian. Maybe it just the change from using the word India from Keling made this happens?

Hmm, who want to debunk this mystery now?

IDK, maybe the Indians brought the "nail" technology to South East Asia. In the old days, no building here actually use nail, because there is no such invention yet...

BTW it could derived from the English word "cling" - because the nail is a two-headed nail, which "clings" together. Possible...

This post has been edited by najminaruto: Oct 22 2010, 06:47 PM

I agree. This is how people use the word from their tone of voice and context. I also wonder if this evolution into a swear word only applies in Malaysia. Since Bengal still exist today do Indians in India consider it a term meaning a guy form Bengal province. Like Kelantanese being a guy form Kelantan.
Have you any idea when Keling became know as India? I hope it is some new empire and not colonization. For that matter I am not sure where the word China came form. In chinese china is translated as middle kindom. The sound China does not even match any chinese dialect for middle kingdom.

I am replying to the pain topic of the thread

Bangladesh is an Independent Country and all the Bangladeshi people are know as Bangladeshi

The official language of Bangladesh is Bengali, the world mother language day 21st february is from Bangladeshi official language Bengali. At 1952 Bangladeshi people fought with Pakistan for the right to have Bengali as their official language and 21st February 1952 they got their deserved right.

In India there is a state named West bengal and citizens of the state speak Bengali language.

All the people around the world speaking bengali language is known as Bangali.

And I believe there should be no confusion anymore.

As a Chinese speaker I think there are a lot Chinese dialects available around the world. In China when I travel from one province to another I even sometimes dont understand the dialects.

lots of malaysians failed to realize that not all punjabis are sikh. in fact, majority of punjabis are muslims and they are residing in punjab region in pakistan. yes, punjab is divided into 2 regions thanks to religious conflict.



This post has been edited by quintessential: Nov 1 2010, 12:14 AM

That doesn't really answer the confusion/common misconcepcion raised in the first post.
yes we know that, but what caused such misconcepcion among Malaysians (mostly Chinese, hence the word "Bangkali")?

I'm a Sikh myself and often misunderstood as a Bengali. Well its two different thing. My Chinese friends are the ones misunderstood this. Well you should tell them. At times, I do feel irritated too people should really know the difference.

Bengali comes from Bangladesh and India. They speak Bengali unlike Sikh which speaks Punjabi and Hindi (If I'm not wrong)

Maybe that's what they called themselves.

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Added on November 30, 2010, 11:39 amSo can you tell Cantonese from Hokkien?



This post has been edited by wodenus: Nov 30 2010, 11:39 AM

Good question. Some people from northern China cant even tell.

Nop, i bet i can't. Unless if they speak. I might be able to recognise the tone of Contonese. Not sure bout Hokkien. But aren't that still classifies as Chinese?

another way 2 differentiate is punjabi/sikhs has a singh in their middle name..btw no religions/races love 2 be called names..

I think you did not get Wodnenus's point. During that time people do dont travel so much since transportation technology is not that advance like today. As such people are ignorant about strange races for distance land. China has so many dialects that it is not so easy for people to tell their location base on their dialect. Even today (with our information age), some still have may not be able to tell easily.

Now you are confusing me. I thought singh is a surname for those whose religion is sikhs. I am surprise that it is a surname for all punjubis.

Perhaps, I got the wrong meaning.

Yes you are tight. Singh is for those whose religion is Sikh. Even the Gurjars, Rajputs use Singh. Of course, its more commonly used by Sikh. But, not all punjabis use the name singh. Because we have punjabi-hindu and stuff like that, so no.

This post has been edited by sarvinG: Dec 1 2010, 10:09 PM

punjabi are sikhs..there is no other races in Sikhs..

Gurjars, Rajputs these are name of places...they means where they come from but there are still punjabis..and have singh as their middle name..

i don know what answer are u guys digging for..explaining 2 u guys seems impossible..

singh is not a surname. Its a sort of a prefix thing for all the sikh guys. Sikh girls always have the word kaur behind their names.
Surnames are, for example, Gill, Rekhraj, Sidhu

like mine is rekhraj. My full name is anildip singh rekhraj ------> rekhraj being my surname from my ancestors
i have a friend who is anildip singh gill.... so thats his surname...

This pretty much answered the question bout the name Singh. I my self got mistaken with the word "surname".

Punjabis and Bengalis are both races but they are not the same. A Punjabi will feel offended if you call him a Bengali, and vice versa.

Punjabis are from Punjab, Bengalis are from Bengal, which are 2000-3000 miles apart.

Most Punjabis are Sikhs/Muslims/Hindus, whereas Bengalis are usually Hindus.

Totally different race, different language, different culture to begin with.

I'm Punjabi btw.

kthxbai