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 Personal financial management, V2

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kinwing
post Feb 22 2013, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Feb 22 2013, 02:09 PM)
Yes as you say yourself over the long term and with higher investment amount, you will not get 20% constantly. Good for you to get 20% CAGR for the past few years, but stating that high income with low risk is not correct. Stock market is high risk, you may be lucky to flip several coins in a row to get outsized returns but that does not mean that you will get the same flip year after year. Stock market is high risk and high gain, the risk is measurable by votality, so it is not an implied risk. By stating your view, you might inadvertently encourage people to think that stock market is a free lunch, which it is not, it is dangerous and required loads of hard work to make it work. It is not for everyone, especially those with low tolerance for risk.

If you start investing in the 2000's 20% CAGR is not a problem until now, my investment gains more than doubled when I start investing in 2006 until now, but as you say the higher amount you have you will feel the constraints. But who knows on the future, anything might happen, so taking 8% long term view on equity and 4% withdrawal rate is prudent financial practice. Since you are a student of Graham & Buffett, you should be familiar with the quote 'margin of safety'.
*
For me, I pretty comfortable with share market and well understand the inherent risks of shares investment, and I know how to manage risks of share investment, hence to me share is a type of low risk and high return investment tool.

I am just stating my opinion and it is referring to my own experience. I do not ask everyone to follow my opinion, it is up to your call. I just let everyone to understand there could be a way to achieve low risk high return if you are willing to find that out. I still stick to my point that there is low risk high return investments, irregard of shares, properties or alternatives investments, as long as you are applying the correct investment framework, and value investing strategy is one of the frameworks that work well for me.

Of course I know MOS, and how do you know if I am not prudent not to aim of 4% to 8% instead of 20%. I mentioned I am now getting CAGR 20% by now, does not mean that I will retire when I achieve 20% return, otherwise I'd have retired long ago.

I was saying if my portfolio's annual return was twice of my salary then I would retire, and this portfolio's annual return could be 4% to 8% of my portfolio's value. Please read between the line.
kinwing
post Feb 22 2013, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(eleven dragon @ Feb 21 2013, 12:33 AM)
...threw my fresh cash equal to a new toyota hilux value as 50% downpayment for my first car...
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I think either you have high income or you are rich in asset to do so. Possibly a new Hilux just 1% of your wealth rclxms.gif .
cold@underminer
post Feb 22 2013, 03:16 PM

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Hey shifus. With 3500 income monthly, I do 300 x 2 bond fund and 600 on savings. I am trying to allocate for equity funds but wondering where to get the money to allocate for it.

Is 300 / fund too much per my income?
Should I break down the 600 into more funds?
Reduce my savings amount from 600 to 300?
Reduce expenses to allocate more for funds?

What is your investment & saving % by salary?
kinwing
post Feb 22 2013, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(cold@underminer @ Feb 22 2013, 03:16 PM)
Hey shifus. With 3500 income monthly, I do 300 x 2 bond fund and 600 on savings. I am trying to allocate for equity funds but wondering where to get the money to allocate for it.

Is 300 / fund too much per my income?
Should I break down the 600 into more funds?
Reduce my savings amount from 600 to 300?
Reduce expenses to allocate more for funds?

What is your investment & saving % by salary?
*
300 or 600 is insignificant for investment and not cost effective. Go save enough up to RM3k or above before you start to invest, and most importantly get yourself an emergency fund just in case you lost your job.

For me it's simple, when I have a 6-month salary size of emergency fund, I'll pour all my savings and bonuses into investment portfolio, and normally my month savings is around 30% of my monthly currently salary.
poolcarpet
post Feb 22 2013, 03:38 PM

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i have to disagree here... RM300/RM600 per month, using dollar cost averaging and investing into good unit trusts is a good move. not everyone is willing to take the risk in stocks and for other investments, it's not feasible if it's just RM300 per month. whatever it is, continue saving the RM300/RM600, continuously increase it and keep on investing! rclxms.gif


QUOTE(kinwing @ Feb 22 2013, 03:26 PM)
300 or 600 is insignificant for investment and not cost effective. Go save enough up to RM3k or above before you start to invest, and most importantly get yourself an emergency fund just in case you lost your job.

For me it's simple, when I have a 6-month salary size of emergency fund, I'll pour all my savings and bonuses into investment portfolio, and normally my month savings is around 30% of my monthly currently salary.
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felixmask
post Feb 22 2013, 04:08 PM

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I share mine experinec biggrin.gif

Beginning i only can save rm100-rm500 per month, from e-FD , then move to UT for period of 3 year using DCA method. I take 2 year reading/study and followup lowyat stock exchange topic once my saving reach monthly rm2-3k i started to invest in stock,leaving my UT saving intact.
Every investment venture , investor dont like to see paper loss investment especially in single egg basket saving. Investing in stock is high risk will get high profit also high loss, noting is guarantee. Furthermore no experience in stock, you likelihood paying for tuition fee.

Is good to hv habit saving, then 1st get to understand about stock or open a trading account with simulation you get a try and feel how it works before jump to uncharted sea by your ownself.


is my 2sen. whistling.gif , other sifu can give other point different view. brows.gif
edwardSL
post Feb 24 2013, 01:52 PM

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I need some opinion too ^^

I'm currently work for 6 month already (fresh grad), and start to accumulate more money. I'm planning to park my money in eFD first as I'm no good in any investment yet (No experience).

My salary is around 2.6k. I consider myself lucky as I don't have to buy a car so no car loan, but I have to pay a lot for my parent's insurance and living cost, so only can save up to 600+ ....

I just start to learn this financial management and plan to put my money in FD. I think putting in 3 month term is much better than putting in 12 month term so I can generate more money from interest, is this correct?
So the interest can keep growing every 3 month I deposit (600x3) instead of deposit my monthly save money every one year. Need opinion from you guys =)
WiLeKiyO
post Feb 24 2013, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(edwardSL @ Feb 24 2013, 01:52 PM)
I need some opinion too ^^

I'm currently work for 6 month already (fresh grad), and start to accumulate more money. I'm planning to park my money in eFD first as I'm no good in any investment yet (No experience).

My salary is around 2.6k. I consider myself lucky as I don't have to buy a car so no car loan, but I have to pay a lot for my parent's insurance and living cost, so only can save up to 600+ ....

I just start to learn this financial management and plan to put my money in FD. I think putting in 3 month term is much better than putting in 12 month term so I can generate more money from interest, is this correct?
So the interest can keep growing every 3 month I deposit (600x3) instead of deposit my monthly save money every one year. Need opinion from you guys =)
*
Your FD calculation is wrong.

You can use this FD calculation http://malaysia.deposits.org/fixed-deposit-calculator.html
edwardSL
post Feb 24 2013, 03:15 PM

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Wrong???

Assume 3.05% for 3 month FD
First month: $10000 initial deposit, put inside FD
After 3 month: I will earn around $76 interest, at the same time I save 650 every month.
So for next month I put in the previous amount plus my saving = (10076+1950) in FD again

If i keep repeat this routine I will earn around $397 at the end of year???


But if I put in 12 month term (3.15%)
I will only earn $315 interest after one year.... If I put it in this way is correct right?
Dias
post Feb 24 2013, 04:58 PM

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If you put your first RM 10k in 1-year FD (3.15%) and your subsequent 3 quarterly placements of RM 1,950 in 3-mth FD (3.05%), your total interest earned would be RM 404.67 by the time your RM10k FD matures along with your 3-mth FDs (i.e. at year end).

This post has been edited by Dias: Feb 24 2013, 04:59 PM
kinwing
post Feb 25 2013, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(edwardSL @ Feb 24 2013, 01:52 PM)
I need some opinion too ^^

I'm currently work for 6 month already (fresh grad), and start to accumulate more money. I'm planning to park my money in eFD first as I'm no good in any investment yet (No experience).

My salary is around 2.6k. I consider myself lucky as I don't have to buy a car so no car loan, but I have to pay a lot for my parent's insurance and living cost, so only can save up to 600+ ....

I just start to learn this financial management and plan to put my money in FD. I think putting in 3 month term is much better than putting in 12 month term so I can generate more money from interest, is this correct?
So the interest can keep growing every 3 month I deposit (600x3) instead of deposit my monthly save money every one year. Need opinion from you guys =)
*
I suggest you to save an emergency fund with a size of up to 6-month of your monthly spending, i.e. RM12,000 and put this amount into FD. About allocation of the FD, you could divide RM12,000 equally into 2 portions and put each into 1-month roll over and 3-month roll over.

Anyway, in my opinion, with such a small amount of FD (RM12k) and such a small difference FD rate between 1-month and 3-month, if I were you I would put all the emergency fund into 1-month roll over FD. The purpose of putting money into FD is for liquidity and not for long term for 3-month/12-month. If you want to earn more return, you should aim on mutual funds, equities or properties but FD.
SUSPink Spider
post Feb 25 2013, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(kinwing @ Feb 25 2013, 09:58 AM)
I suggest you to save an emergency fund with a size of up to 6-month of your monthly spending, i.e. RM12,000 and put this amount into FD. About allocation of the FD, you could divide RM12,000 equally into 2 portions and put each into 1-month roll over and 3-month roll over.

Anyway, in my opinion, with such a small amount of FD (RM12k) and such a small difference FD rate between 1-month and 3-month, if I were you I would put all the emergency fund into 1-month roll over FD. The purpose of putting money into FD is for liquidity and not  for long term for 3-month/12-month. If you want to earn more return, you should aim on mutual funds, equities or properties but FD.
*
Share with u my method...

With 12K, I split:
3K for 3 months
3K for 6 months
3K for 9 months
3K for 12 months

When the 3 months FD mature, renew to 12 months
When the 6 months FD mature, renew to 12 months

So that u will have a 12-M FD maturing every 3 months icon_idea.gif
kinwing
post Feb 25 2013, 10:27 AM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Feb 22 2013, 04:08 PM)
I share mine experinec  biggrin.gif

Beginning i only can save rm100-rm500 per month, from e-FD , then move to UT for period of 3 year using DCA method.  I take 2 year reading/study and followup lowyat stock exchange topic once my saving reach monthly rm2-3k  i started to invest in stock,leaving my UT saving intact.
Every investment venture ,  investor dont like to see paper loss investment especially in single egg basket saving. Investing in stock is high risk will get high profit also high loss, noting is guarantee. Furthermore no experience in stock, you likelihood paying for tuition fee.

Is good to hv habit saving, then 1st get to understand about stock or open a trading account with simulation you get a try and feel how it works before jump to uncharted sea by your ownself.
is my 2sen. whistling.gif , other sifu can give other point different view. brows.gif
*
felixmask,

I don't believe the theory of dollar cost averaging method. To me, it's a noob strategy. If you want to earn more return from investments, you should do more on investment research instead of being lazy to rely DCA method for your investment.

Anyway, it's good to see you move forward on trying other investment tools that indicate your plan and desire to earn more investing profit have driven you through the process from a rookie to a professional investors in the past few years. Hopefully you could do well and further improve on the knowledge of investments smile.gif .
felixmask
post Feb 25 2013, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 25 2013, 10:09 AM)
Share with u my method...

With 12K, I split:
3K for 3 months
3K for 6 months
3K for 9 months
3K for 12 months

When the 3 months FD mature, renew to 12 months
When the 6 months FD mature, renew to 12 months

So that u will have a 12-M FD maturing every 3 months icon_idea.gif
*
hi pink spider,

I different from you, i share mine...heheh...different ppl different way.
For me e-FD is emergency money so made no different 3,6 month 12 month mature.

with 15k: 3 split
rm5k 10th of the month
rm5k 20th of the month
rm5k 30th of the month.

renewal every month.

whistling.gif my sen of emergency fund.

This post has been edited by felixmask: Feb 25 2013, 10:32 AM
kinwing
post Feb 25 2013, 10:32 AM

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From: Ipoh/Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 25 2013, 10:09 AM)
Share with u my method...

With 12K, I split:
3K for 3 months
3K for 6 months
3K for 9 months
3K for 12 months

When the 3 months FD mature, renew to 12 months
When the 6 months FD mature, renew to 12 months

So that u will have a 12-M FD maturing every 3 months icon_idea.gif
*
Yes I know this method, but that would be quite a hassle to work on this sweat.gif .

My point is when emergency incident happen and you may need to use the 12k immediately, you would need to take all $ out irregard they are put in 3, 6, 9 or 12-month roll over. If you put in 1-month roll over, the max penalty of losing is just 1-month FD interest.

Anyway, I don't want put more emphasis on interest earns from the FD, to me FD is an tool for liquidity purpose, not a tool for growing capital.
SUSPink Spider
post Feb 25 2013, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Feb 25 2013, 10:31 AM)
hi pink spider,

  I different from you, i share mine...heheh...different ppl different way.
  For me e-FD is emergency money so made no different 3,6 month 12 month mature.

with 15k: 3 split
rm5k 10th of the month
rm5k 20th of the month
rm5k 30th of the month.

renewal every month.

whistling.gif  my sen of emergency fund.
*
Hey Felix kitty biggrin.gif

I had thought of that too tongue.gif

In addition to FD, I also have 2 months worth of net salary in a money market UT fund. Thus, I'm comfortable with the 3 months gap between FDs. smile.gif

QUOTE(kinwing @ Feb 25 2013, 10:32 AM)
Yes I know this method, but that would be quite a hassle to work on this sweat.gif .

My point is when emergency incident happen and you may need to use the 12k immediately, you would need to take all $ out irregard they are put in 3, 6, 9 or 12-month roll over. If you put in 1-month roll over, the max penalty of losing is just 1-month FD interest.

Anyway, I don't want put more emphasis on interest earns from the FD, to me FD is an  tool for liquidity purpose, not a tool for growing capital.
*
^
Try Felix's method above thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Feb 25 2013, 10:39 AM
felixmask
post Feb 25 2013, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Feb 25 2013, 10:37 AM)
Hey Felix kitty biggrin.gif

I had thought of that too tongue.gif

In addition to FD, I also have 2 months worth of net salary in a money market UT fund. Thus, I'm comfortable with the 3 months gap between FDs. smile.gif
*
oic....different ppl with way different method. I put PM UT BOND in case i out of job to pay my housing loan- brows.gif hehehe

By the way im not kitty...i LION...eating vmad.gif ppl in office every day
foolc
post Feb 25 2013, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(kinwing @ Feb 25 2013, 09:58 AM)
I suggest you to save an emergency fund with a size of up to 6-month of your monthly spending, i.e. RM12,000 and put this amount into FD. About allocation of the FD, you could divide RM12,000 equally into 2 portions and put each into 1-month roll over and 3-month roll over.

Anyway, in my opinion, with such a small amount of FD (RM12k) and such a small difference FD rate between 1-month and 3-month, if I were you I would put all the emergency fund into 1-month roll over FD. The purpose of putting money into FD is for liquidity and not  for long term for 3-month/12-month. If you want to earn more return, you should aim on mutual funds, equities or properties but FD.
*
isnt it better to dump the rm12k emergency funds into the housing loan which is flexible? can withdraw with notice to banks within a few days or some have atm card to withdraw anytime?


SUSPink Spider
post Feb 25 2013, 10:55 AM

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Joined: Jun 2011


QUOTE(foolc @ Feb 25 2013, 10:53 AM)
isnt it better to dump the rm12k emergency funds into the housing loan which is flexible? can withdraw with notice to banks within a few days or some have atm card to withdraw anytime?
*
Overly liquid may not be a good thing...later IPhone 6 come out, IPad come out, GF wants to go Bali... brows.gif

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Feb 25 2013, 10:55 AM
kinwing
post Feb 25 2013, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(foolc @ Feb 25 2013, 10:53 AM)
isnt it better to dump the rm12k emergency funds into the housing loan which is flexible? can withdraw with notice to banks within a few days or some have atm card to withdraw anytime?
*
I am not interested in property investment so I have no idea, hope other fellows can help to explain on this.

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