deodorant,

What I really want is for people to spread this kind of learning and knowledge around. Then, we can level the salary negotiation between employer and employee a bit...

Dreamer

wongataa,

You do not read very well. I do not tell my previous salary period.

Dreamer

adwan,

1) Conversely, a candidate with LEVERAGE can REJECT the company IMMEDIATELY if they ask for previous salary.

2) Who fill out job application form anyhow?? Only junior people. Most senior people only fill out job application form after a written job offer. It is just paperwork to keep HR happy.

3) Why deal with HR to begin with?? Senior people bypass HR and deal with hiring manager directly through social networking.\

Dreamer

adwan,

Young in age not necessary mean that a person does not have extensive working experience. For example, I worked in the college while getting my BSEE and MSEE. So, when I graduated with my MSEE, I had 5 years of working experience.


Ditto, like the joke that we tell about senior people with 10 years of experience. Do you have

A) 10 years of different experience

or

B) 1 year of experience repeated 10 times.

<<why some of your comment sound so unpractical and not down to earth 1?>>

It is not practical for YOU. Why that is true??

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 4 2014, 02:08 AM

adwan,

So, in summary, you DO NOT KNOW how to bypass the HR. And, since you DO NOT KNOW, you ASSUME that NO ONE else can.

Enough said.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 4 2014, 10:47 AM

Good34,

There is a third way. The candidate use his / her social network to contact the hiring manager directly and bypassing the the HR totally. And, this applies to all positions. It does not necessary only include position that a company use a head hunter to recruit.

So, while most people use the NORMAL PROCEDURE and get stuck with HR, others bypassing all those obstacles and get straight to the hiring manager. Guess which one has the better chance of succeeding??

It is a CHOICE like most thing in life. A person could either LEARN how to play THE SYSTEM in order to get ahead or WHINE how unfair THE SYSTEM is. It is just a GAME like any other game.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 4 2014, 11:38 PM

fearless_kiki,

The CORRECT STATEMENT is not everyone is SMART ENOUGH to use their contacts. Unless you live in a cave and never socialize with ANYONE, you will have friends, families, classmates and so on.. They probably know someone that know someone in the company that you are interested in. It is just a question of whether you are willing to put in the EFFORT to use and develop the social network to get what you want.

Most people are TOO LAZY to do this. Hence, they get what they deserve.

It is a very small world.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 6 2014, 12:12 PM

fearless_kiki,

Why I do not have this problem??

A) Maybe YOU have the WRONG kind of friends??

B) Maybe YOU are not a helpful person too??

If YOUR FRIEND is not helpful, WHY bother to deal with THEM??

There is a Chinese saying:

When you point a finger to somebody else, please remember that the other 3 fingers in your hand is pointing back to you.

Dreamer

adwan,

1) Who say that only top 1% to 3% does this? Many people do this. It is just that YOU choose not to believe that YOU can do it. YOU are THE PROBLEM. Since YOU cannot and would not do it, YOU find EXCUSES.

It is just a SKILL like anything else. It can be learned.

2) Or, you are one of those HR scumbag. Hence, you do not want people to LEARN how to bypass you.

Dreamer

fearless_kiki,

<<I befriend a person not because to get advantage from them. I befriend a person for companionship. >>

If friend cannot help each other in time of need, what kind of friend is that??

<<I come from a middle class family.>>

I came from a poor starving family. We starved regularly in my childhood.

<<My parents aren't in the same field as i pursue. >>

My mother's family was farmer. My father ran a small business.

<<My friends are mostly from middle class families too.>>

Most of my friends are from poor starving families.

<<Would that me to get a job? Probably able to get me to the interview. >>

That is THE WHOLE POINT. Get an interview from the hiring manager. Bypassing HR.

<<Whether the manager is going to hire me or not? Another story.>>

Bingo!!! So, what is unethical about this?? You still need the QUALIFICATION to get the job.

<<Everyone has good friends and not so good friends.>>

Why waste time and your life with lousy friend?? Life is too short for that.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 6 2014, 11:25 PM

chow again,

I am not assuming everyone has connection to everywhere. I am just saying everyone has at least some connection. Some have more and some have less. But, only if a person live in a cave and has NO FRIEND and NO FAMILY, the person has no connection.

In most cases, people do not know how to use their existing connections, they ASSUME that they have NONE.

Dreamer

Folks,

<<For your case of candidate of RM2,000 but offer more if budget is RM4K. For me, most likely my company won't shortlited this candidate. Because his or her historical salary records did not indicate he achieve much in the present company....but that's only for my case.>>

Please note that another example how the candidate lose by disclosing their previous salary. The person is qualify for the job but cannot get offer because of low previous salary.

Dreamer

JohnJon82,

1) You got lucky!! In most places, it is in the HR policy that not to offer 20% more than previous salary regardless of how much the job is budgeted for.

2) Most ad do not state the salary range to begin with.

3) Is this an MNC?? Most likely not.

Dreamer

P.S.: An HONEST employer will state the salary range of the job position in the advertisement.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 9 2014, 08:43 PM

Starbucki,

You still do not get IT. In any form of price / salary negotiation, whoever give up the number first loses the LEVERAGE.

If the HR and / or Hiring Manager tell you that the salary range is $4,000 to $5,000 per month FIRST, why would you settle for less than $4,000?? In fact, you would ask for $4,500.

Now, if you tell THEM that your previous salary is $3,000 FIRST, they know that they can probably pay you $3,450 and get away with that.

<< So basically you are saying that your current salary will eventually be revealed, and based on that it would still be up to the company to decide your salary,>>

In many companies, the HR policy said that they cannot offer you more than 15% of your previous salary. If you revealed your previous salary, they can only offer you $3,450. If you don't, they can offer you at least $4,000 per month as per my example.

I was a hiring manager. I tell my candidates not to reveal their previous and expected salary. If they do, that will limit my flexibility in making an offer. But, it was to late for many of them since they filled out everything in the form. They had limited themselves to either 15% of previous salary or expected salary: whichever that is lower. As for others that contacted me through my social network before applying for the job, they do not need to fill in a form. And, I tell them the salary range.

Hiring Manager do not see eye to eye with the HR. In most cases, they are enemies.

Dreamer

Starbucki,

<< So what do you do when you are asked to provide your payslip after all negotiations are done? Forge one that shows that the increment falls within the 15% band, or just tell them you will not provide one?>>

If they had given you a written offer, why do you need to give them anything like a pay slip?? That is STUPID!! Do you always do as you are told??

<< Unfortunately your own experience as a hiring manager does not represent the majority of hiring processes, where HR will simply not process further until all boxes are ticked. >>

Normal people go through the HR process and get stuck. SMART people figure out who the hiring manager is and bypass the HR process.

<<Your solutions would only work in conditions created by yourself>>

Bingo!!! SMART people bypass the system instead of following the HR process that underpay them. ANYONE that work a bit longer and establish a social network could had find out who the hiring manager is. They take control of the salary negotiation process.

"Average people are not rich. Rich people are not average."

It is a CHOICE. BEHAVE like an average people and you will get paid like an average people. You only have 20+ years of working income. CHOOSE wisely...

This is not LUCK. SMART people LEARN and WORK HARDER to make sure they get paid well. Meanwhile, average people are like cows following the herd. They follow THE SYSTEM blindly even though THE SYSTEM is designed to underpay them.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Dec 18 2014, 11:26 PM

Starbucki,

<<They will only give you the offer letter if you have provided all necessary documentations for their record per their SOP.>>

BS. I have not face any this kind of situation. In fact, pay slip is always optional. If this happen, I just tell the Hiring Manager to get the HR to adjust the offer letter without this condition.

Now, do you REALLY know what you are talking about or you just dream this out??

Between HR wanting a pay slip and the Hiring Manager want to hire a person to make money for the company, guess who is going to win?? HR is useless cost function for most companies.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Dec 18 2014, 11:39 PM

Starbucki,

It is a "requirement" that can be bypassed. Only a HR SCUMBAG will believe that it is important enough to stop someone from being hired.

STUPID people that work with HR SCUMBAG will be underpaid. Meanwhile...

This is Malaysia aka Bolehland. Most laws are not enforced to begin with. So, you BELIEVE that all requirements will be followed?? Which country do you live in??

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Dec 18 2014, 11:48 PM

KOHTT,

And, your point is?? ALL companies must have THE SAME HR policies. It cannot be 15% in some and 20% in others?? I did not claim in my posts that ALL COMPANIES have the same policies.

Dreamer

Starbucki,

The ONLY RELEVANT QUESTION here is are you one of those HR SCUMBAG?? If not, why are you so interested in getting people underpaid??

Dreamer

Starbucki,

And, your view is RELEVANT and USEFUL because

1) You are a HR SCUMBAG and you want to underpay people??

Or,

2) You do not know how to say NO in not providing pay slip. Hence, other should say YES too.

I tell people where and how I come into my point of view. As for YOU???

What makes your point of view useful?? Do you have any experience in saying NO to begin with?? Or, you DARE NOT try to begin with??

Answer this SIMPLE and DIRECT question.

Dreamer