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Group LYN Buddhism Retreat - SERIOUS TALK, No trolling please

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will4848
post Sep 25 2018, 04:03 PM

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QUOTE(arenax @ Sep 22 2018, 11:02 AM)
LOL. You're the one who's confused and read all those fake Buddhist books written by Christians.

Go and read some real Buddhist texts directly translated from the sutras.
*
so now we got fake buddhist book written by christian n theravada are man-made and not spoken by Buddha ....
u are such a creative person tongue.gif
by the way, which sutra say buddhist cannot eat meat ?? tongue.gif
Chrono-Trigger
post Sep 25 2018, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(will4848 @ Sep 21 2018, 11:09 PM)
when u reach arhat stage, actually you already "let go" (anatta), no self, no ego ....
since there is "no self", there is no one commit good or bad deed, all karma seed will gone ....
deswai there is no debt to be paid ...
but if according to mahayana, arhat actually still inside samsara, but they stay at the last 5 level in rupadhatu...
cos there no water, fire n wind disaster, they can stay there forever .....
*
So what do you think happens when a person becomes Arhat, according to your understanding?

Btw, Buddha is also an Arahant.
will4848
post Sep 25 2018, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(Chrono-Trigger @ Sep 25 2018, 04:37 PM)
So what do you think happens when a person becomes Arhat, according to your understanding?

Btw, Buddha is also an Arahant.
*
in theravada, buddha = arhat, but mahayana, buddha =/= arhat, buddha n arhat is different from state of mind ...
buddha attained "perfect enlightenment" (anuttara samyak sambodhi), highest perfect awakening, nothing can go higher or equal to this ....
arhat attained enlightenment of no-self but still there is a "no-self thought" that there is no-self .... not 100% perfect one, but already out of samsara ...
Meaning...for arhat, "there is still something to let go" but from buddha pov, "there is nothing to obtained"......

This post has been edited by will4848: Sep 25 2018, 05:17 PM
Chrono-Trigger
post Sep 25 2018, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(will4848 @ Sep 25 2018, 05:03 PM)
in theravada, buddha = arhat, but mahayana, buddha =/= arhat, buddha n arhat is different from state of mind ...
buddha attained "perfect enlightenment" (anuttara samyak sambodhi), highest perfect awakening, nothing can go higher or equal to this ....
arhat attained enlightenment of no-self but still there is a "no-self thought" that there is no-self .... not 100% perfect one, but already out of samsara ...
Meaning...for arhat, "there is still something to let go" but from buddha pov, "there is nothing to obtained"......
*
I see. A bit different view
Battlefield1942
post Sep 26 2018, 10:11 AM

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I will like to share some interesting video channel by Mindah-Lee Kumar on Buddhist in this age. Try checking out her youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNnOEZIfi-zXEX3-xNe29Bw or facebook. https://www.facebook.com/mindah.kumar . She did a good job to explain the teaching in our modern world the concept. As a layman, I find this one good enough and keep my interest to practice more after watching her video.
will4848
post Sep 28 2018, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(teamjoker @ Sep 26 2018, 09:21 AM)
So deep......
*
one is like a needle drop into a bucket of water, needle cannot dissolve in the water, so there is you(needle) n me(water) ....
the other one is like a salt drop into a bucket of water, salt will dissolve in the water ....
since the whole bucket of water become salty ..... so there is nothing to be obtained = oneness ....
not difficult to understand but difficult to attained sad.gif sad.gif
will4848
post Sep 28 2018, 12:28 AM

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QUOTE(Chrono-Trigger @ Sep 25 2018, 05:40 PM)
I see. A bit different view
*
if arhat = buddha, then what about Pratyekabuddha ? also same same ?
if all are the same then why different name ?
actually all the name represent their state of mind(consciousness)....
even though all 3 is out of samsara but the level of pranja they attained is different ....
buddha attained is anuttara samyak sambodhi, is the highest perfection of wisdom ....
just like a salt drop into a bucket of water n dissolve in the water, no salt, just salty water = oneness ...
so buddha is everywhere n he knows everything, so there is "nothing to be obtained" since he is also everything(in samadhi state)....
deswai when u read the sutra, u will find many of his disciple ask buddha many question but many of them is arhat ....
that's mean arhat still dont know something but buddha know everything ....
btw to become a buddha u need to take many aeon of years ....
but from the sutra, u can see some after take refuge under buddha, straight away become arhat...... tongue.gif
actually all this u can find in the heart sutra ...

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by will4848: Sep 28 2018, 12:33 AM
nash_ph_41
post Sep 29 2018, 07:56 PM

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QUOTE(will4848 @ Sep 25 2018, 04:03 PM)
so now we got fake buddhist book written by christian n theravada are man-made and not spoken by Buddha ....
u are such a creative person  tongue.gif
by the way, which sutra say buddhist cannot eat meat ??  tongue.gif
*
Stated in a lot sutra. One of sutra named Shurangama

QUOTE

38 "Purna, thought and love become bound together so that people love each other and cannot bear to be apart. As a
result, ceaseless successive births of parents, children, and grandchildren occur in this world. And the basis for all that is desire and greed.

38-39 "Greed and emotional love feed on one another until the greed becomes insatiable. The result of that in this world is the tendency of egg-born, womb-born, moisture-born, and transformation-born beings to devour one another to the extent that their strength permits. The basis for all that is killing and greed.

40 "Suppose a person eats a sheep. The sheep dies and becomes a person; the person dies and becomes a sheep, The
same applies in all rebirths among the ten categories. Through death after death and birth after birth, they eat each other. The evil karma one is born with continues to the bounds of the future. The basis for all that is stealing and greed.

42 "'You owe me a life; I must repay my debt to you.' Due to such causes and conditions we pass through hundreds of thousands of eons in sustained cycle of birth and death.

20 "After my cessation, in the Dharma-ending Age, these hordes of ghosts and spirits will abound, spreading like wildfire as they argue that eating meat will bring one to the Bodhi Way.

20-21 "Ananda, I permit the Bhikshus to eat five kinds of pure meat. This meat is actually a transformation brought into being by my spiritual powers. It basically has no life-force. Those of you Brahmans who live in a climate so hot and humid, and on such sandy and rocky land, that vegetables will not grow; therefore, I have had to assist you with spiritual powers and compassion. Because of this magnanimous kindness and compassion, this so-called meat suits your taste. After my extinction, how can those who eat the flesh of beings be called the disciples of Shakya?

22 "You should know that these people who eat meat may gain some awareness and may seem to be in samadhi, but they are all great rakshasas. When their retribution ends, they are bound to sink into the bitter sea of birth and death. They are not disciples of the Buddha. Such people as these kill and eat one another in a never-ending cycle. How can such people transcend the Triple Realm?

23 "When you teach people of the world to cultivate samadhi, they must also cut off killing. This is the second clear and instruction on purity given by the Thus Come Ones, the Buddhas of the Past, World Honored Ones.
Source
nash_ph_41
post Sep 29 2018, 08:10 PM

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Middle Path



Journey of enlightenment


This post has been edited by nash_ph_41: Dec 15 2018, 10:58 PM
will4848
post Oct 1 2018, 12:49 AM

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QUOTE(nash_ph_41 @ Sep 29 2018, 07:56 PM)
Stated in a lot sutra. One of sutra named Shurangama

*
first of all, i need to declare that im not against vegetarian or meat eating, it is just a debate about buddhism n meat eating ....
bcos once thing goes further normally this argument will get personal which is unnecessarily... hope u understand .. tongue.gif

do u know that only in mahayana sutra got say about cannot eat meat ??

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by will4848: Oct 1 2018, 12:51 AM
will4848
post Oct 1 2018, 01:11 AM

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QUOTE(Michael2020 @ Sep 30 2018, 03:20 PM)
In Theravada, Arhat was a label given to anyone that have reached the end of their practice.
1. Praceka Buddha (Arhat)
> Those who have attained nibanna without any real teacher & don't have the capacity to teach other (hence the Wheel of Dhamma was not turned).
> Hermit who may have learnt a bit here & there but without any teaching from the real Dhamma. 

2. Savaka Buddha (Arhat)
> Disciple of Samma Sambuddha & his teaching that have been transmit for ages.
> Eg: Sariputta, Ananda & current modern monk who have reached Nibanna by practicing what have been passed down by Gotama Buddha

3. Samma Sambuddha (Arhat)
> Those who have re-discovered the noble 8-fold path which was long forgotten. He has turned the Wheel of Dhamma by start to teach other.
> As long as the current Buddha Dhamma (teaching)  was still transmitted no one can claimed they have become Samma Sambuddha by re-discovered the 8-Noble Path.
> Eg: Gotama Buddha.

Once those 3 reached Parinibanna (death), they are all equal. Prior to death they are not equal.

Note: As long as Gotama Buddha teaching is still been practiced in this world, it is not possible for another person to become Samma Sambuddha since there nothing to be re-discovered and the Dhamma Wheel is still turning.  The new Samma Sambuddha  can only exist if the Dhamma Wheel stopped turning, that is the current Buddha teaching was lost & forgotten.

The next to come is Universal Monarch (Cakkavatti).
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remember, when u attained arhatship, all your good or bad seed(karma) is gone but those sentient being that u harm or help them b4, then how ??
as u also said, once u become arhat u no need to repaid any debt, u no need pay doesn't mean that u dont owe them ma ??
to complete this, u need to come back again to soha world as a bodhisattva(pay debt) to complete your buddhahood ...
deswai arhat is out of samsara but they are not buddha cos arhat still haven't attain anuttara samyak sambodhi (perfect enlightenment).... tongue.gif


This post has been edited by will4848: Oct 1 2018, 01:31 AM
will4848
post Oct 1 2018, 01:18 AM

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QUOTE(arenax @ Sep 30 2018, 06:42 PM)
Don't go and tell the wrong things if you haven't read any real Buddhist sutras.

Arhat
Prayetbuddha
Bodhisatva
Buddha

Are all different stages of soul evolution.

No wonder Buddhism is wrongly misunderstood because there are so many wrong teachings by people who don't pick up a real sutra.    shakehead.gif
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u always say real sutra n fake sutra but u never mention any sutra name ....that means what ??
the sutra u like is called real sutra, the sutra u dont like, u called fake sutra ?? rclxub.gif rclxub.gif
btw do u know in buddhism there is no "soul" only consciousness ? and they dont evolve only can be attained ... tongue.gif
nash_ph_41
post Oct 1 2018, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(will4848 @ Oct 1 2018, 12:49 AM)
first of all, i need to declare that im not against vegetarian or meat eating, it is just a debate about buddhism n meat eating ....
bcos once thing goes further normally this argument will get personal which is unnecessarily... hope u understand ..  tongue.gif

do u know that only in mahayana sutra got say about cannot eat meat ??

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Conclusion, its back to person which path they choose.
You are right, if proceed with this topic it will lead never ending loop.

Allow me to point out my own self opinion before we end this.
1: if we travel to India and understand their custom, most of Indian ppl still practice vegetarians life style due to religion.
2. Modern lifestyle no longer treat livestock as life but more to product.
3.While entering cultivation path, cleansing our human body from attachment in term of energy or emotion that we consume bring great advantage as this path go on.

This post has been edited by nash_ph_41: Oct 1 2018, 11:55 AM
nash_ph_41
post Oct 1 2018, 05:30 PM

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Current in India most of them practice Hinduism which related to tradition.
Gotta to emphasize this as didn't highlight at previous comment.

While because of this tradition, may reflect most Indian are vegetarian.

Therefore possibility for Buddha’s disciple and follower to adapt vegetarian practice is high.,but of coz some is not.

QUOTE(arenax @ Oct 1 2018, 04:17 PM)
Indians practise Hinduism and NOT Buddhism. There are some overlapping concepts but they are different religions with different founders. Don't get confused between Hinduism and Buddhism like so many people. Hinduism have caste system while Buddhism don't.

No need to go to India.

Just go to China, Taiwan, USA, Singapore the Buddhist monks there are all vegetarian, they still uphold Buddha's real teachings.

In Thailand, some Buddhist monks are vegetarian but not all.
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This post has been edited by nash_ph_41: Oct 1 2018, 08:04 PM
nash_ph_41
post Oct 2 2018, 09:27 AM

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Yes,as he receive teaching and well verse in vedic and Brahmin tradition.As he get enlightenment, show truth path to human kind.

Experience by ourselves is keyword on his teaching.But of coz at beginning he face slot obstacles and rejection on his new teaching.

As tatagatha who well in Universal law of cause and effect, killing or taking life will replay back by killing. How couldnt he not tell this truth to his merely disciples and follower?

QUOTE(arenax @ Oct 2 2018, 08:40 AM)
Indians pracitising Hinduism is due to tradition based on Vedic books written by their ancestors.

Buddha got his knowledge by opening up his heavenly eyes.

Buddha was NOT influenced by Hinduism after opening up his spiritual eyes, BEFORE yes but AFTER no.

Or else Buddha would follow the caste system of Hinduism which he didn't. Some Hindus actually performed animal sacrifice during Buddha's days.
*
will4848
post Oct 2 2018, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(Michael2020 @ Oct 1 2018, 11:10 AM)
Angulimala Sutta
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.086.than.html

Death of Maha-Moggallana
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors...r/wheel263.html
PS: I suggest you practice meditation and find the answer by yourself.
Cula-Malunkyovada Sutta
"It's just as if a man were wounded with an arrow thickly smeared with poison. His friends & companions, kinsmen & relatives would provide him with a surgeon, and the man would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know whether the man who wounded me was a noble warrior, a brahman, a merchant, or a worker.' He would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know the given name & clan name of the man who wounded me... until I know whether he was tall, medium, or short... until I know whether he was dark, ruddy-brown, or golden-colored... until I know his home village, town, or city... "

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.063.than.html
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apa ini ?? ... i tot we are talking about arhat n buddha state of mind ?? i dont understand, pls explain a bit hmm.gif hmm.gif
will4848
post Oct 2 2018, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(nash_ph_41 @ Oct 1 2018, 11:55 AM)
Conclusion, its back to person which path they choose.
You are right, if proceed with this topic it will lead never ending loop.

Allow me to point out my own self opinion before we end this.
1: if we travel to India and understand their custom, most of Indian ppl still practice vegetarians life style due to religion.
2. Modern lifestyle no longer treat livestock as life but more to product.
3.While entering cultivation path, cleansing our human body from attachment in term of energy or emotion that we consume bring great advantage as this path go on.
*
how vegetarian can cleansing our human body from attachment ??
frankly speaking i do agree if u go vegetarian it will help u in practising buddhism... icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by will4848: Oct 2 2018, 01:57 PM
will4848
post Oct 2 2018, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(arenax @ Oct 2 2018, 08:51 AM)
Even if I gave you 100 real sutras, you will still deny it .

I have already said that you should google for articles on internet, do research yourself and CONVINCE yourself. No amount of real sutras from me will convince a biased mind. Buddha has said that not all people will understand his teachings because different people have different level of consciousness.

Arhat level is NOT akin to Buddha level. You have misunderstood main difference between Theravada and Mahayana.

when did i say arhat=buddha, pls read my post 1969

Theravada means 'small' whereas Maha means 'big'.

So Arhat is saving only one person ie. yourself.  The boat can carry only one person.

Beyond Arhat level, the Bodhisatva, Buddha try to save other souls too by giving them spiritual guidance. The 'maha' boat can carry many people.

In other words, to go beyond Arhat level, one must be a spiritual guide to help others or reincarnate on Earth to provide guidance. People like Kuan Yin and Buddha reincarnate willingly to provide guidance.

Once you become a Arhat , you don't need to reincarnate on Earth if you choose not to. But then if you want to go to higher levels, you must help others evolve.

PS. You are also confused between soul and consciousness.

as i said, there is no "soul" in buddhism, only consciousness. soul, i think is taoism, but i not sure but confirm is not buddhism.

*
btw u say something like this .... "Buddha got his knowledge by opening up his heavenly eyes" ...
pls la, go n read the diamond sutra, there 5 type of eye ....
1. normal flesh eye - like what we have
2. heavenly eye - the eye u can see very far n can see thru even block by wall/mountain ...
3. wisdom eye
4. dharma eye
5. buddha eye ...

heavenly eye even normal deity or heavenly being also got la ....even some ghost also got heavenly eye nod.gif
all this explain in the diamond sutra ... tongue.gif
will4848
post Oct 2 2018, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(nash_ph_41 @ Oct 2 2018, 09:27 AM)
Yes,as he receive teaching and well verse in vedic and Brahmin tradition.As he get enlightenment, show truth path to human kind.

Experience by ourselves is keyword on his teaching.But of coz at beginning he face slot obstacles and rejection on his new teaching.

As tatagatha who well in Universal law of cause and effect, killing or taking life will replay back by killing. How couldnt he not tell this truth to his merely disciples and follower?
*
this is a very good question brows.gif brows.gif ....the answer is here ...
let me ask u, why after gautama attained enlightenment he go for begging food n do not cook ?? tongue.gif


This post has been edited by will4848: Oct 2 2018, 02:18 PM
nash_ph_41
post Oct 2 2018, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(will4848 @ Oct 2 2018, 01:56 PM)
how vegetarian can cleansing our human body from attachment ??
frankly speaking i do agree if u go vegetarian it will help u in practising buddhism... icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Check inbox,I reply u on this.

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