Learn the 4 noble truth n 8 foldpath to get rid of your desire ... 

Hi,
this might have discussed before..but considering the number of pages here, i hope it's ok if i ask again..assuming someone asked before.

i watched a video by Zakir Naik giving speech where he says that buddhism's 4 noble truth..contradict between 3rd and 4th statements.

3rd says in order to get ride of suffering..u have to get rid of desire.

then 4th statement says in order to do so, u need to follow the 8 fold paths..

then he proceed to claim that as such, arent they contradicting each other?

to be able to prastice # 04, u need to have desire...which contradicts with number # 03.

so all sifus here pls share ur thoughts.

added : some one commented that desire is different from jst doing it..as # 04 is what it is..but then again..isnt one have to have desire then only can perform 8 fold path?

The desire to do something is called Chanda.(intention, desire, will). It's a neutral psychological state. Desire to eat, to walk, to talk etc. (AKA wish to do something)

However, if the arising of such desire is accompanied by unwholesome state of the mind, then the desire becomes bad. If it's accompanied by good state of mind, then it's wholesome.

For example, you want to donate money and help people - the desire is associated with a good mental state --> good things.

If you wanna kill someone - the desire is associated with defilement ---> bad things.

Sekian

thank you sir!
but doesnt that jst prove what zakir naik said is true?

that point 3 contradict with point 4? that if u wanna meet point 4, u need to have something which is the 8 fold path..but by having that need or want to follow 8 fold path..u contradict with point # 3 on not having any wants or desires..

If the desire is to attain liberation (nibbana), it is a good thing as it leads to the ending of suffering.

It's like a destination. You must have a point that you want to go, otherwise you will be wandering aimlessly in the forest.

When the point is set, you walk the path. When you reach the destination, the desire to reach that destination does not arise anymore, because you are there already.

ahh..i see.
this destination example is easier to comprehend
but again, if i may, that means before reaching a destination, it's contradict with point #3 of not having a destination in the 1st place. isnt it?

The four noble truths cannot be comprehended this way. It is talking about Dukkha (suffering).

1. Life is suffering (problem)
2. Origin of suffering (cause of the problems)
3. Cessation of suffering (ending of the problems)
4. Way to the ending of the problem (methods, works that needs to be done to achieve no.3)

hmm
then what about the point # 3 being to end suffering one have to end desire
then go to point # 4 of following the 8 fold path?

Where does the Noble truths say about "ending suffering one has to end desire"?

Desire and suffering are 2 different things.

The Noble truths are talking about Dukkha (suffering), not desire.

What is Dukkha?

though if you presented it that way..as in suffering..and removing suffering..then i reckon it's different from what zakir naik claim in removing desire and then follow by having desire..

At the end of the day, there is only mind-body. and they are suffering.

A lot of people misunderstood Buddha's teachings. Read shurangama sutra.

The goal is to reach Arhathood first but this requires thousands of lifetimes and one has to pay off one's karma before reaching that stage. The higher the heavens, the more one has to work.

LOL.
To be able to escape from cycle of birth and rebirth, one has to pay back all debts.

LOL.

That's how you guys are brainwashed on the wrong things.

Let me give you an example, if somebody killed you and family in this life.

And he gets to Nirvana as you wrongly claim, would you be happy?

To be able to escape from cycle of birth and rebirth, one has to pay back all debts.

A person can only go to Nirvana if he is 100% virtuous and paid off all past life karmas including not eating and killing animals.

Read the story on how Buddha (which is the highest soul) got his karma when he tried to prevent his kingdom from being destroyed by Kosala kingdom. Many people in his kingdom was killed due to past karma and he also had his headache karma.

How so a lowly person like you who eats meat but who wants to go to Nirvana?

Arhat, prayetbuddha, bodhisatva, Buddha all these are different levels of higher spiritual beings.

Theravada are man-made and not spoken by Buddha. They were modified by certain monks in India so that the monks can continue to eat meat. Which sutra said Buddha allowed meat eating?

All Mahayana monks never eat meat and stick to Buddha's true teachings.

But the amount of karma is infinite!

Theravada are man-made and not spoken by Buddha. They were modified by certain monks in India so that the monks can continue to eat meat. Which sutra said Buddha allowed meat eating?

All Mahayana monks never eat meat and stick to Buddha's true teachings.

but if according to mahayana, arhat actually still inside samsara, but they stay at the last 5 level in rupadhatu...
cos there no water, fire n wind disaster, they can stay there forever .....

LOL. Don't quote wiki, wiki is not 100% true, wiki is written by a group of people who are biased to that subject. Those who don't agree with some of the ideas can't edit it so it's biased. There are many edit wars by different authors in wiki before.

I read tons of Buddhist books over the decades.

I read sutras that are directly translated from sutras and not the diluted version that third or fourth party writes.

When I was young, I used to read those English books written by westerners which are not correct and diluted. They teach people the wrong things just to promote Christianity.

Then I got hold of the real sutras translated word by word, and it was completely different from those diluted version.
Theravada is NOT the oldest school, it is Mahayana.

Anyway, we agree to disagree. No need to argue until the end of the world and we still don't agree with each other.