infamous DRG ultra ling infestor timing again against sc. sc got no chance to defend. calling it now.
The Zerg Strategy v1.0, Cheer for the overmind!
The Zerg Strategy v1.0, Cheer for the overmind!
|
|
Jan 17 2012, 08:35 PM
Return to original view | Post
#141
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
infamous DRG ultra ling infestor timing again against sc. sc got no chance to defend. calling it now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 25 2012, 05:08 PM
Return to original view | Post
#142
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
|
|
|
Jan 26 2012, 12:34 PM
Return to original view | Post
#143
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(A-Note @ Jan 25 2012, 08:29 PM) What you mean? O.o if like i deny both his vespene geyser... he will have to make zealots to kill one of it in which it takes time to kill it ._. and forcing more cannons/zealots in the early game? well, you are playing a ZvP, he dont need gas for warp gate so early anyway..forge FE until make gateway and cannons, normally gas intake will come very late.......and you cant take all 4 geysers right....for ZvT, if you take both gas, you can delay 1 base factory play include reactor hellion expand. but then a terran will just 1 rax FE, wait marine come out to take down the gas. its just unwise to stick to old plan when someone double gas steal you... |
|
|
Jan 26 2012, 09:51 PM
Return to original view | Post
#144
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
theres 7 fking billion people in the world. no, you are not the only one.
|
|
|
Jan 27 2012, 09:27 PM
Return to original view | Post
#145
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(A-Note @ Jan 27 2012, 06:11 PM) ummm....do you have any close friends who are in higher leauges? i find that the easiest way to get out from these leagues are to play alongside them. let them sit beside you teach you. can improve trumendously. i used to be silver then i took an arr....owh nothing. |
|
|
Jan 28 2012, 12:11 AM
Return to original view | Post
#146
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(EnTaroAdun23 @ Jan 27 2012, 11:18 PM) Sure thing. I'm at work right now and won't be home until around 9am tomorrow. the do not hatch first is not against 1 base all in. a FFE protoss can 100% cannon rush a hatch 1st. basically once you reach master every zerg will jus pool 1st.ZvT, I go 15hatch 16pool 18gas 17overlord. My first 100 gas goes to speed and make 4 lings. What I do from then on depends on what I scout. Regardless, I make sure I don't miss my injects and creep spread. 4 queens do the trick for me. One ling go to the nearest xelnaga tower to my opponent's base, the 3 stand guard in front of his natural. I constantly poke in to look at his wall or to check if he takes his natural. I build buildings depending on how much gas i have. Above, I mentioned that my first 100 gas goes to ling speed. Against a Terran who does marine-tank pushes, I go: next 50 gas goes to Baneling Nest, next 100 gas goes to lair, next 100 goes to +1 melee, next 200 goes to Spire, next 150 goes to baneling speed and save gas from there, for mutas and +1 air attack. My mutas come out around the 10/11-minute mark. By this time, I should (or hope to) have a 3rd and a macro-hatch. Behind the muta harass, I go hivetech, get more upgrades and take more bases for more gas. As for ZvP, I personally go 15hatch 16pool and delay my gas until around 30 supply. A handful of Protoss players in the Gold/Plat leagues go FFE, so I could safely take a 3rd around 20-ish supply, sometimes even as early as 16 (after the 16pool). But I don't forget to do is take the Roach Warren and Evo Chamber at around the 7minute mark then make (at least) one spore crawler per base when the evo pops. I've heard over pro Zerg streams (Sheth, Destiny, CatZ, among others), "do not hatch-first against a Protoss". That's fine, you could go 13/14pool 15/16hatch (and 16 or 21 hatch again if he goes FFE). This build allows you to get queens/spines/lings earlier against one-base protoss all-ins. But, yeah, this is just me. Doesn't work all the time, but it pays to have one solid build per match-up under your sleeve. Still took me to top 16 Platinum in NA last season (haven't played 1v1 ladder this season, but will go back when I get my new laptop). |
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2012, 01:04 AM
Return to original view | Post
#147
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(EnTaroAdun23 @ Jan 28 2012, 12:58 AM) Like I said, it doesn't work all the time. But a Protoss who goes forge-first then cannon-rushes cannot take the nexus at 16, which is the normal FFE timing. And I doubt Master protosses need to cannon rush in the first place. The most they would do is pylon block the natural to delay the hatchery, which at this time the Zerg could get the pool or place the 2nd hatch on the 3rd expo (like Ret does). well, its not exactly cannon rush, 9 pylon then scout. str8 camp, if zerg wants to hatch 1st, can put down pylon. if zerg decide to hatch at 3rd base only pylon cannon. because 3rd base there no ovie. normally just pylon block cuz zerg will go pool 1st. normally after 9 pylon, if scout pool 1st, then will make forge only nexus. if zerg managed to take hatch, then make nexus 1st. unless you are naniwa...nexus 1st even if your opponent 6 pools...I also get cannon-rushed myself. I respond by cancelling my natural hatchery (if I can), get ling speed and roach warren and rain the protoss with roaches and lings (or go lair for nydus or spire). Think about how much the Protoss is investing on his cannon-rush: 100 minerals per pylon, 150 minerals per cannon and the lost time delaying his gateway, cybernetics core and warpgate tech. If I lose, it's fine. Not the end of the world. Like WhiteRa says, "more GG, more skill". |
|
|
Jan 28 2012, 09:37 AM
Return to original view | Post
#148
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(EnTaroAdun23 @ Jan 28 2012, 01:28 AM) That's quite an investment for the Protoss to cannon rush wherever the zerg lays down the 2nd/3rd hatch. lol, cannon rush is cheap. not protoss. however its common sense, i play with my friends as well, we play all kind of race. its not those bronze from edge of base crawl into your base kind of cannon. build order 9 pylon, forge, as long as you hatchery 1st, put pylon when hatchery is half done, then put cannon, cancel cannon if you cancel hatchery. and the cnanon put right in your face. behind mineral line. use 2 pylon and 1 cannon can wall off. if you cancel, then cancel cannon too, need abit of timing. and at home, the nexus will be delay by about 200~ mineral which is about 2-4 supply only. the thing about FFE cannon rush is you can force your opponent to all in. then you just use 3 cannon defend and chrono 1 stargate voidray. its almost auto win.I don't know what league you're in, but Plat level, cannon rushes don't happen often. My last ZvPs I played on NA ladder went FFE, 3gate-robo expand, FFE to DT rush, MC-style nexus-cancel 4gate, 2gate mass zealot. The last cannon-rush I remember being done on me was in Taldarim, where the protoss started the cannon rush inside my main base, at a corner where I don't normally scout. He lost. I rained roaches on his base which only had the nexus, gateway, forge, pylon and 16 or so probes. He invested too much on the cannon rush that he didn't get his economy going to put himself in a more advantageous position. The only one I lost was against the MC-style nexus-cancel 4gate. EDIT: and yeh, I went hatch-first on all these games. if you hatch 1st, you will not have enuf zzergling or queen to save your nat or 3rd base. so the thing protoss need to do is dun over invest. for 1 base, just need 1 cannon. dun make ur home nexus too late den can adi. just prevent them from having 2 base. then they can only do 1 base roach or 1 base baneling. but most of the time zerg will pool 1st. so just pylon block and cancel it when the 4 zergling hit your pylon. also, you need to know the precise timing to put the pylon so that you can cancel it. for 14 pool, 13 pool and 12 pool. This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jan 28 2012, 09:39 AM |
|
|
Jan 28 2012, 02:06 PM
Return to original view | Post
#149
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(EnTaroAdun23 @ Jan 28 2012, 12:26 PM) LOL. Just, LOL. lol maybe you should know who you are talking with first...you can ask them whats my league. i wasnt trying to undermind you, wait you reach master maybe we can meet in ladder.I'll wait for you to get to Plat and let's see if you can pull of a cannon rush. You should try to watch the streams of Ret, Sheth, Destiny, CatZ and IdrA. They sometimes get cannon-rushed by CombatEX or Deezer over their hatch-first builds. Unsurprisingly, our Zerg champions still win. For the simple reason that cannon rushes DO NOT work above Gold league. The zerg doesn't even need to all-in after he is cannon rushed. Just think: If cannon-rushing wins PvZ every time, why don't we see it in the pro tournaments? And a transition to one stargate voidray? LOL. Please. I could have 2 (or possibly even 3) queens out before your void ray arrives at my base. Get to Plat level playing Zerg as your main race, and maybe, just maybe, you'll learn 3 of the numerous ways to beat it. Added on January 28, 2012, 2:18 pm from the very beginning i was just trying to say that hatch 1st is vunerable to cannon rush and all protoss has no reason NOT to do so because its cost efficient. but if you are happy with hatch 1st den so be it. since you are pretty happy with your plat league. This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jan 28 2012, 02:21 PM |
|
|
Jan 28 2012, 03:34 PM
Return to original view | Post
#150
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
i meant the game on dual sight in MLG final. leenock went 8 pool, he did nexus 1st. (if i rmb correctly)
|
|
|
Jan 28 2012, 10:09 PM
Return to original view | Post
#151
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
Why Idra never says gg...
NSFW read at own risk » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « |
|
|
Jan 31 2012, 08:17 PM
Return to original view | Post
#152
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(A-Note @ Jan 31 2012, 06:11 PM) lol once i broke into enemy's base 1st thing i'll hit/find is robotics facility/factory thats what you need to do. catch tanks unsiege. the terran is not in the field all the time, they will muster up a force at home, and move out together. so you need to have lings at watch tower, outside his ramp etc etc....to see the force move out. guess what, when they are moving, they are not sieged....if you let the terran siege up nicely outside your house taunting you, then you are doing something wrong.Added on January 31, 2012, 6:14 pmhow you guys actually respond to marine tank? |
|
|
Jan 31 2012, 09:15 PM
Return to original view | Post
#153
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(A-Note @ Jan 31 2012, 08:38 PM) it will be much harder to break through. very not cost effecitve unless your supply is much higher than his. (which you should be because you are zerg) muster up a force and when you feel you can, break it once and for all. still, you should prevent this from happening because terran can reinforce his sieged contain. if you cannot break through right away, you can use some of your force to cut reinforcement, until you feel confident then surround. |
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 31 2012, 10:04 PM
Return to original view | Post
#154
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
yeah, burrow roach is pretty useless, a scan and you're f***ed. unless you are preparing for a specific strategy...to counter mech...
banes are pretty good...alot of lings...basically just alot of units. ling bane muta, bane roach...etc...split your bane like how MKP split his marines lol anyway, you just need to know he is moving out. then you can set up your flank etc. you need time to prepare, dun do last minute stuff. |
|
|
Feb 3 2012, 07:56 AM
Return to original view | Post
#155
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(A-Note @ Feb 3 2012, 01:49 AM) haihz whats ur problem? league? download korean pro replays and learn from them. immitate what they are doing, keep on doing the same thing over and over again against computer. (if you are protoss or terran). if zerg, its more of not missing spawn larvae. use a clock or reminder or wtv to remind you every 20~ seconds. spread creep, spend money... |
|
|
Feb 3 2012, 03:23 PM
Return to original view | Post
#156
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
^ ditto
Added on February 3, 2012, 3:25 pmfor zerg, can all the way till master. really not much MORE things to do in higher level. just perfect spawn larvae and reaction to all sorts of build. definitely more, but not much more. This post has been edited by quest_5692: Feb 3 2012, 03:25 PM |
|
|
Feb 4 2012, 01:34 AM
Return to original view | Post
#157
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(A-Note @ Feb 3 2012, 07:11 PM) still stuck in bronze T.T I don't know why well, macro btr....nestea went to round of 64 in GSL season 1 by making roaches and lings only. he dont know how to play sc2 yet, he just macro btr than his opponent using BW skill.when vs toss and you know they are going colo... what you guys do normally? hydra or muta 1st? =/ i make hydra den not enuf time to make corruptor out Added on February 3, 2012, 7:13 pmand and um what is the optimal number of corruptor vs say.. 4 colos? =/ Added on February 3, 2012, 7:15 pmand i tend to panic when its war time =/ den kelam kabut everything die lol so basically what you need to do as a bronze zerg is make drone, spend money, attack. nothing so complicated like hydra or what. if your macro is fixed, you can beat bronze protoss and terran by making pure queens, or even pure lings, dont even need to think what hydra corrupter etc....just play faster, keep macro on top of form. spamming mouseclick is a good way to start. Added on February 4, 2012, 1:38 ami think this applies to everyone, my macro is awful compare to better players, if i can macro better (in another level), i can still use pure marine to win ppl i meet in ladder now. as MC or idra will say, balance is not really a factor until you are at least as good as them. likewise to strategy but the entry point is lower, its when one fixed their basics..... This post has been edited by quest_5692: Feb 4 2012, 01:38 AM |
|
|
Feb 8 2012, 04:50 PM
Return to original view | Post
#158
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
sentry imba
|
|
|
Feb 8 2012, 09:46 PM
Return to original view | Post
#159
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
if the protoss mix in immortals, any sort of roach defense will die. immortal range + sentry FF imba. -DRG
|
|
|
Feb 9 2012, 03:15 PM
Return to original view | Post
#160
|
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Senior Member
853 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(TheNameX @ Feb 9 2012, 09:10 AM) Type gg when saw that ?? well it depends on the protoss's FF micro. but FF is like compulsory course for protoss, a good protoss must know how to use FF properly...if not you can just A lol him.Yea... it's a timing push, aint sure if it's 6 or 7 gates, but that guy have 4 - 5 sentries with like 7 or 8 stalkers. I'm very bad at defending, lost a couple of game just because cant defend against timing push :\ |
| Change to: | 0.0510sec
0.57
7 queries
GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 1st December 2025 - 09:07 PM |