u push out with 3-4 zealots with some micro u can do very well...
if they do run by to ur base, jz pull probes to clear with it...
they can handle the zerglings pretty well, outnumbering them for a surround...
usually, players will wall off their base with a single zealot or pylon block it...

else, u do a 3-4 gate timely push...

if he would to go baneling, his base would have been ripped apart by ur zealots...
not to mention there's no way for him to even get it before ur zealot reach his base (i do 3 zealot push with 2 queued for reinforcements)...
u gotta take the time/ resource factors...
u getting zealot and runs to his base, he tried to run by, u pylon block ur base (only 1 extra is needed if ur sim city is good) till ur next zealot comes out to defend while i run rampage in his base...

most high lvl plays i see does this strategy...
some even block before pushing due to the wargate tech (since u need supply from it anyways)...
if ur push do fail, u have dealt enuff pressure to him as his larvae would be used for lings and u can start 4 gating like mad...
in my style, i 3 zealot push with 2 behind (total 5) and either get more zealot to push (if he is having trouble defending) or go to stalkers (if i see his roach den already up)/ 4 gate...

the sim city aspect is really important for defensive purpose of ur base vs zerg (or terran as well actually)

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 7 2010, 02:19 AM

usually i'll do a 1 base play till i get 4 warpgates up...
i'll defend the ramp with timely forcefields until then...
i find zealots the best in ripping the army apart when backed with stalkers/ sentries...

try to get a +1 damage upgrade before u push as well...
my timing push with 4 gate is with +1 upgrade...
make tonnes of wonders with chrono boost on it to ROFLstomp ur opponent's army/ base...

i do this for 2v2 as well...
as long as ur partner push with u then its good...

or in my case, my partner spam me resource, i make 10 warpgates and push alone LOL...

not really...
depends on ur scouting...
like when we do timing pushes, we dun mass a counter...

u can either be the counter, or u force em to be the counter

stalkers wit blink i guess...

for ur case i prefer this
1. i zealot rush him
2. he go roaches
3. i go 4 gate chargelots and HT

---

Added on August 9, 2010, 3:14 pmwhile stalkers look really great on paper, they are not that strong against the heavy hitters...

against terran, go for 4 gate chargelots/HT or the blinkstalkers...
if u are getting zealots without charge, u are doing it wrong...
the charge to me is the single best upgrade!

very hard AI is kinda ez even if u let them do wut they want...
the key is to micro manage ur army...
while their army is huge, u can beat em easily wit some micro...

---

Added on August 9, 2010, 3:16 pmps:
TS, i think its best to remove about the counters part...
as day9 put it, there is no such thing as counters and if u are forcing a counter, u wont have the numbers to be effective...
the general weakness/ more damage is more than enuff to be ur general rule of thumb...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 9 2010, 03:16 PM

well since u already have 2 gate from ur initial zealot harass, its natural to transition into gateway builds =p
try watching day9daily #160, its a good PvZ with high emphasize on maps...

for AI the counter is good but against real player its always a bad thing...
focusing on counters keep u in the constant tech switch or playing passively...
players unlike AI do throw harassments and timely pushes instead of random waves...
and when they do push out, ur counters is just too ineffective at times...
besides tat u might be giving up map control...

there was a very good day9daily about counters which totally changed my mind about counters...
i used to force counters ie see roaches? drop a robo bay...
but they dun justify ur investments due to the numbers and resources u invest to tech...
i would rather jz get +1 and stick to stalkers or chargelots (despite paper says roaches counter zealots)...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 9 2010, 03:49 PM

but i'm against the concept of hard counters...
+1 upgrade with 4gate > getting robo into immortals for me...

as u said, u wont have enuff resource for both =p

yup its usually scouting the best way...
but not always u have the chance to change ur tech after scouting as u cant scout his base 100% all the time...

have a look at day9daily #153, its about the concept on counters/ hard counters

ps: i'm his fanboy so yeah

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 9 2010, 04:19 PM

MM all in is pretty scary for toss...
even when u have scouted, its freaking hard to defend against it T

Good read on counters (on thor counters) and why are they bad if u focus too much into em...

The question is rather generic... People tend to think too much in terms of "what single unit counters this single unit". Looking at the bigger picture will help. For example, if he's going straight thors, it's pretty ridiculous, and any healthy marine/marauder mix will destroy it. If the thor player is a bit smarter, and has Thors supported with a marine+medivac meatshield, the "counter" becomes more complex. In that case, something with Siege Tanks would be more effective. Try to engage the player where you have a good setup of tanks in siege mode. Use either Hellions (since you'll have factories anyway for tanks) or just your own marine+marauder combo as a meatshield. If your tanks are well-placed, they'll do a ton of punishment to both his clustered marine meatshield, and will also out-range the thors, getting some good damage in.

If you think too simplistically (X counters Y), your strategies will also be simple (and extreme), and countered just as simply. For example, you may think "Banshees would destroy Siege Tanks". But that would also only work if he has little to no marine support, and also means you'd have to "react" and build starports and tech up your Banshees before they even came into play... in the meantime you're screwed, if this "hard counter" (terrible word to use) Banshee tactic wasn't built in to your plan to begin with. Try to think of the bigger picture, with solid mixes of units (more than just reactionary counters), and also streamlined tech/build/expand patterns with subtle adjustments to handle specific opponents.

-Knifey McGee

---

Added on August 9, 2010, 4:27 pmwell i am a toss player so only got to experience it from a toss view haha...
even if i manage to hold it off, i would have lost some buildings usually...

marauders jz rape so much early game...
and backed with marines they are really a balanced group...
unless u got chargelots, its a nightmare

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 9 2010, 04:27 PM

well u sitll need something to accompany ur HTs...
i usually use zealot/ HT backed by stalkers...
u can go the sentry/stalkers/HT but gas heavy a little...

HTs would last u the entire game weather its 15min or 1hour...
remember that energy based units becomes more valuable towards the late game...

2v1, voidrays are awesome!!!!

lol taokaka?

then still got tupai in BB meh O.o

jz punished a protoss who went immortals lol...
he have more immortals sentries but i got more zealots (and with charge)...
then i tech to collosus, bye bye FF

oh its the DLC >.<

hmmm i'm kinda shy >.<
i'm mostly playing PvT (most frens are T) while PvP on ladder (most of them are P)