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 AMD Radeon™ Discussion V3, Prepare Red! Green has attacked!

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JoBigShow
post Jul 13 2010, 10:12 AM

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Haha, I already forgot about this 'price war' thingy that used to be prominent in the GC market! tongue.gif
Been awhile now ATi cards pwned, now we should see some price cut for sure in these coming months...



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post Jul 15 2010, 07:50 AM

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QUOTE(V3nz @ Jul 13 2010, 04:56 PM)
recently just bought myself a hd5770 sweat.gif  tongue.gif
*
It seems most recent 5770 owners having a dilemma when the GTX460 came in sneaking out of nowhere! sweat.gif
I know you feel compelled to CF'ed the 5770 out of disappointment, but chill out a bit, no need to go that far ATM...


Anyways congrats to Nvidia because this is actually the first 'real' attack that do have a considerable impact to the Red Camp...the GTX 460...

The only contender I could of that could rival the GTX460 is a 'priced-dropped' HD5830, but I they (ATI) have to revised the whole architecture of the PCB (currently using 5870 PCB) and circuitry to cut cost so it's possible to reduce the price,
but regardless of that, the 5830 should or MUST have reduce the price long ago, this is true even before the launch of GTX460... rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(Onion-KiD @ Jul 13 2010, 06:08 PM)
ATi definitely will take action to against GTX460. While nVidia mean GTX460 is to compete 5830, ATi will change ur mind to: 5850 is to compete GTX460. hohoho... (let no one card(nvidia) survive on market field = Earn & Win)
*
Well good thing there's isn't much 5830 owners (or are there? tongue.gif ) to fill disappointed getting that card anyways, but it's ATI's fault in the first place for leaving a big gap between 5770 and 5850 to be exploited by Nvidia, (the 5830 wasn't a good enough excuse to fill that GAP)
the GTX460 move was smooth as silk, (it was too easy anyways, the gap was huge and exploitable) ...a complement to Nvidia for now...

.....ATi will change ur mind to: 5850 is to compete GTX460......

ATi CAN do that, but Nvidia's GTX460 will leech on the 5830 soo closely & tightly that this move from ATi will not suffice much benefit for them.... doh.gif

So in the end, the 5830 is just plain hopeless, and borderline useless...UNLESS price drop!!! (I suggest RM675~ish)
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post Jul 15 2010, 09:15 PM

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The 5830 price drop should be common sense if ATi wants to deal with the GTX460.

But price drop for the 5850 is a different story...ever since I bought my HD5850 in Nov 2009 for around RM950, I got the feeling that for it's performance - the price is somehow right and justified, esp if compared to it's Nvidia competitor the GTX285, which is way more expensive...(BTW, the 5850 is already considered 'bang~for-bucks', so should make sense the price wouldn't be lowered...)

So my point is, the 5850 will/might stay the same price because the price range for the 5850 is suitable for it at the moment...UNTIL the 6 Series comes out to play early next year or end of this year....OR price drop for GTX470!
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post Jul 16 2010, 08:42 AM

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Galaxy GeForce GTX 460 Super OC 1GB whistling.gif

This GC, priced only at RM775, OWNED the stock 5850! sweat.gif
I've check most benchmarks such as on Tweaktown, Tom's HW, etc. and this GC is either equal or a tad bit faster than the 5850 default clocks...

What does this means? hmm.gif
I will reconsider what I said before about the 5850 would not have a price drop because it desperately needs it to counter these premium OC'ed GTX460's...

Of course a 900mhz/1200 @ 1.15v OC'ed HD5850 can beat the OC'ed GTX460 without the slightest of a doubt, but the GTX460 already proves that it has thread into the 5850's (stock) territory...while being approx. RM200 cheaper! shocking.gif


Oh about the hopelessly and almost non-contributory 5830, that cards needs to drop the price waay lower, almost close to the current 5770 price while the 'bang~for~the~bucks' 5850 indeed needs to drop the price a bit, (and don't forget price drop for the 5770 as well, Cross-Fire!!!!!)
With these three cards having a drop in their price, ATi will for sure counter big time any Nvidia's ploy to win over the GC market... biggrin.gif


haha, I miss this price war...consumers are smiling again after more than half a year of Red domination... tongue.gif


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post Jul 16 2010, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(Turnip @ Jul 16 2010, 09:12 AM)
seriously...

this
GTX460

or this?
5850

i like the ati's design more though hmm.gif

or i'll go for 5770 CF(using 5770 now).
*
I'm using 5850 and I luv every bit of it! thumbup.gif
But If an OC'ed GTX460 can match the stock 5850 performance, and RM200 cheaper, the current price of the 5850 must be adjust accordingly, ASAP..

Anyways a stock GTX460 isn't comparable to 5850, it's those premium OC'ed gtx460 that's threatening the 5850...
QUOTE(supernothing @ Jul 16 2010, 10:30 AM)
how's the thermal performance? deng i need to start reading those reviews tongue.gif
*
Yeah, this one they still have a debate on the LYN Nvidia Thread, some says it's cooler than the 5770 on LOAD, hmm.gif some says it's hot like it's older siblings the GTX470 and 480...ETC.
But that Galaxy GTX460 OC'ed is noisy(those detachable fan) from the reviews, still, let's hear from the GTX460 owner's themselves later on...
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post Jul 17 2010, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(zonan4 @ Jul 17 2010, 10:55 AM)
sweat.gif As far as I know this is AMD thread... sudenlly soo many nvidia fan inside telling about how great is GTX460 sweat.gif  anyways

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
ATi folks keep their cards close...but the Nvidia cards closer! biggrin.gif

QUOTE(V3nz @ Jul 17 2010, 11:45 AM)
huh?can do this one ah? sweat.gif

how? hmm.gif

i just bought my hd5770 nia,still enjoying whistling.gif  brows.gif
*
I re-apply my 5850 with Tuniq TX-3, improved by 5c @IDLE, and 7c @LOAD, it's worth it!
but so far as I concerned, Asus won't let you open up the cooler... sweat.gif
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post Jul 17 2010, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(selferino @ Jul 17 2010, 02:14 PM)
how  bout gigabyte 5850?
*
I emailed the technician of my brand (Powercolor) and inquire about if replacing the paste do void the warranty, and they say as long no damage is derive from improper installation of the cooler then everything is fine. icon_rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(PowerSlide @ Jul 17 2010, 03:11 PM)
dont think asus will know..shhhhhhh dont tell them u open the cooler  laugh.gif

with news of 6 series i think im gona wait again..long live my great hd3870  laugh.gif
*
The important thing are those warranty sticker, most of the time they locate it in the way you can remove the cooler without tempering the sticker, but sometimes they put the sticker where it is impossible to remove the cooler without ripping the sticker... sweat.gif

QUOTE(moshpit21 @ Jul 17 2010, 06:58 PM)
bro, how much did you buy the TX-3? and where did you buy it from?

which 5850 is yours?
*
Mine is Powercolor5850, I ordered the Tuniq TX-3 from lingloong.

Here's the exact page:
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=804722&hl=

The reference cooler was 'tricky' to remove at first because the design is different from any ref cooler i'd seen in the past..but once you know the method, it's easy... laugh.gif
TX-3 is superb! My C2D proc improves by 6c on LOAD when replace with this paste..

QUOTE(speedhunter @ Jul 17 2010, 07:18 PM)
the cheapest i found is from lingloong
*
Agree, RM29 total via Poslaju thumbup.gif

The TX-3 is a bit fiddly to apply, the "credit card" method is hopeless, the best is to wrap your index finger with plastic and 'persuade' the paste all across the GPU. biggrin.gif
Since this paste is pretty thick in consistency, I'm not convince with applying it the "rice grain" method, (where you blob two rice grain amount of past then rotate the cooler back and forth while pressing it to the GPU)


Added on July 17, 2010, 9:29 pm
QUOTE(JasonJenn @ Jul 17 2010, 08:31 PM)
The Asus ARES!

5870x2! not 5970

Cost  $1200 - if only i'm rich  shocking.gif

Fastest? on GPU ever made

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asus-a...e-4gb,2685.html

[attachmentid=1680653]
*
Hope can do Eyefinity 3, let alone Eyefinity 6... doh.gif (didn't read the whole review, the card's too much for the average person...)

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Jul 17 2010, 09:29 PM
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post Jul 18 2010, 03:00 PM

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The 5850 slotted nicely in the GC market for the price of RM1000 (approx.) if looked upon by the average gamers. (not them rich folks or enthusiast, etc.)

The 5870 is faster, but already breaks the RM1000 bar/margin... (In my opinion, graphic card's price are ideal for any range of consumers when no more than RM1000)
5850 can OC to match 5870 while still maintain being no more than RM1000. nod.gif

So this card at the moment is dubbed 'bang~for~the~bucks'..........as for the GTX470, it's price is similar to the 5870 but Nvidia claims it's a direct competitor for the 5850, but we know it's technically not...it competes with the 5870 and the 5870 pwned it...
The competitors for the 5850 are GTX460 and GTX465: The 5850 can beat the GTX460 most of the time (and better @ high res) while GTX465 is too hot and consumes more power than 5850, but a bit better than 5850...


So again, the 5850 still a nicely placed card in the market...but as for the moment, it needs to decrease it's price ASAP to retain that rep as a "good buy" card...

icon_rolleyes.gif

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post Jul 18 2010, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(Cinta Laura @ Jul 18 2010, 03:03 PM)
OC the 5850 can same performance with 5870 in stock ?
*
I can OC my Powrcolor 5850 to:
900mhz/1200 @ 1.15v to score similar points in 3DMark Vantage as my friend's Asus 5870.

Then later he OC'd his 5870 to 1ghz to ejek me mad.gif


But these days I stop OC'ing the card since it can easily handle most of the games out there...last time OC'ed when Metro 2033 was released couple of months ago.... sweat.gif
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post Jul 18 2010, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(hasyir @ Jul 18 2010, 04:17 PM)
better buy hd5850 2gb or hd5870 1gb??i can see tht d price is more or less d same..

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


user posted image
*
The 2G doesn't mean higher performance, but means it can perform at higher resolution without performance deficit, usually waaaay above 1920X1200.
Or without performance deficit when doing Eyefinity 3. rclxms.gif

The ASUS EAH5870 is the better performer between those two cards you mentioned.
But I'm not sure which performs better on very high res, let's say if for example both cards are to be played on a 32" monitor........ hmm.gif hmm.gif hmm.gif

.... it puzzles me why there's a 2G version of 5850 with the similar price of 5870 when a 5870 out-performs the 5850 obviously...




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post Jul 18 2010, 10:37 PM

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QUOTE(gg8989 @ Jul 18 2010, 08:41 PM)
saw 5850 stock cooler selling rm899 at wcg midvalley
quite cheap  drool.gif
*
Pretty cheap, is it the old reference cooler?


ATI Catalyst 10.7 rumored to be released Wednesday, July 21st

SOURCE:
http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/graphics/...esday-july-21st


Can't wait to see any performance gain, only couple of more days.. rclxms.gif
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post Jul 18 2010, 10:42 PM

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QUOTE(V3nz @ Jul 18 2010, 10:36 PM)
Ok,done!

i have reapplying my thermal paste on my gc,no sticker or whatever that block my way whistling.gif

the result is rather satisfying!

a 10c drop rclxm9.gif  rclxm9.gif

mean now on load,the temp is at 78c!The fan speed is at 90% though sweat.gif

i still think that the temp is quite high at that kinda fan speed,

do you guys think so?will it harm my gc at the long term? sad.gif

or shud i just get along with it? hmm.gif  tongue.gif
*
Which paste bro? biggrin.gif
Thats a whole lotta improvement!

Anyways, IMPORTANT QUESTION:

Are you using Catalyst 10.5?!
This driver has issues in which it heats up the card a bit, you should use 10.4 or 10.6 or wait for two more days for 10.7 if the rumors are true...

JoBigShow
post Jul 19 2010, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(ronaldlee007 @ Jul 19 2010, 08:50 AM)
who u buy from?? pm him for details.. smile.gif


Added on July 19, 2010, 8:59 am

Hi, i saw that u mention about the 900mhz for ur HD5850. But on my ati catalyst, the max is 875 only. Are u using MSI burner to do that?
Thank you.. I need to learn more about my new PW PCS+ HD5850..
*
The Catalyst can only MAXed out at 775mhz only, and I don't recommend using Catalyst for OC'ing.

Use MSI Afterburner 1.5 biggrin.gif
download here:
http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm

Ok, just because it's MSI doesn't mean it's only for MSI cards, infact they should just called it Afterburner, but of course MSI wants to take some credits in this great utility...heck they created it....(actually the template is borrowed from Rivertuner, but Rivertuner can't OC ATi last time I check, plus MSI AB looks nicer and user friendly..)

With MSI AB 1.5.1, you have more versatility in OC'ing the card.

In order to do so:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Go to Program files > MSI Afterburner > Open 'MSIAfterburner.cfg'

Then change the value from 0 to 1 for this:

[ATIADLHAL]
EnableUnofficialOverclocking = 1


RESTART MSI AFTERBURNER (or restart the PC optionally)

ENJOY the journey of OC'ing your PCS+ over the 775mhz CCC limit icon_rolleyes.gif
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With AB you can manually set AUTOFAN by regulating the fan speed accordingly to the GC's temps. nod.gif
Mine is like this:
Attached Image

And don't forget the OSD, you can monitor your GPU temp on your taskbar and as well when playing games, of course the FPS as well, very useful...

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Jul 19 2010, 03:36 PM
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post Jul 19 2010, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(Evangelistica @ Jul 19 2010, 04:49 PM)
GTX 460 out already and it seems kinking ass!! when ATI will drop its price? No offense im an ATI user too.
*
No offense really, ATi users wants to know even more than the Nvidia users about the GTX460 brows.gif
I hope we'll be seeing a steady price drop of the the 5830 and 5850 starting August..although overseas the price drop has been commenced about a week or more, it will take a little bit of time for the local market to adjust to this new pricing... nod.gif


Guys, you know what..I have the nagging feeling that the existing 5850 owners that own their cards for more than 5 months now (or ever since October 2009, like me tongue.gif ) wouldn't want their cards to depreciate in price, in which this 'price drop' will devalues the 5850... whistling.gif whistling.gif whistling.gif
Next thing you'll know, your 5850 only laku for RM600 in Garage Sales : laugh.gif


This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Jul 19 2010, 05:10 PM
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post Jul 19 2010, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(supernothing @ Jul 19 2010, 06:33 PM)
RM600? bak sini mau CFX brows.gif
*
Relax dulu, harga skrg masih ngem lagi, sekarang jual pun laku RM800 tongue.gif
.... in couple of months can CFX the 5850 for sure when this card becomes cheaper,
plus the news that the 6 Series won't yield major improvements means the existing 5850 user can still use their cards for the next 2 years before updating to the 28nm cards...so mass CFX'ing of 5850 are imminent to happen pretty close in the future....
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post Jul 20 2010, 02:50 AM

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QUOTE(swenv6 @ Jul 20 2010, 02:07 AM)
YEAP ME TOO.....so sad and wasting money for nothing.


Added on July 20, 2010, 2:08 am
in my case..they sent it back to distributor...can't claim...sent to taiwan ...they say can't claimed...sent back here still the same card...hopeless
*
QUOTE(swenv6 @ Jul 20 2010, 02:32 AM)
the reason is got burn mark......i suspect they use low quality chip....here's a photo. now using cheapo geforce 210 card without any issue...except slow and headache when play game.
*
This doesn't add up, this kinda thing should be covered by the warranty.

Do you have a more detailed explanation why your warranty claim is rejected?...I don't see why something like a minor burnt circuitry is categorized as voiding warranty... hmm.gif

Are they saying that this damage is caused by external factors (your mobo, PSU, etc.) hence it's you who cause the damage, not by the defectiveness of their card??? doh.gif
Because I know some friends who encountered worst damage than what you showed in the pic (burnt capacitors and Vram, big electrical spark in his case, etc.) but manage to retrieved a fresh card back from RMA. no more than a month...
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post Jul 20 2010, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(swenv6 @ Jul 20 2010, 12:08 PM)
what they say is the damage because of lightning or short circuit bla bla bla...but my mobo everything is working fine....first they sent it to distributor to claimed a new one...but distributor said cannot because the card got burn mark...then they say can try sent to taiwan back to the manufacturer hopefully that they give me a new one...after 2 months of waiting...taiwan also reject says can't give me a new because of the burn chips.

then the shop call me....boss cannot claimed the new one....we already try everything bla bla bla...then i said so how now? the shop says if u get another card from us we give u a special price lorr..ok sounds promising then i went to warranty department to collect the burn card and the girl call the shop downstairs inform about my situation....then i went downstairs ok which card u wanna buy...then i said asus 5870 v2 if u have...open up the box it's a reference model...price we give rm 1400 lor...tak banyak untung wor jual graphic card. that's not special price to me.
*
I hope you don't buy that "special price" Asus 5870..... did you try nego with them kau kau? brows.gif
You got a special case and could have use that slight advantage to persuade those guys for a proper special price like around RM1100 or lower.. tongue.gif

Still, don't give up on that burn 5870 yet, like speedhunter said, try these guys out:

lingloong # ONE STOP PC Hardware & Laptops Warranty/Repair #, Any Brand Of Hardware & Laptops + RMA: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=1423566&hl=

zhen^wei [IDEAL]Warranty RMA Services for IT hardware, Service Charge:RM30-50,already 14th Case : http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=1405818&hl=
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post Jul 20 2010, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(speedhunter @ Jul 20 2010, 12:40 PM)
not buying a new 1, i mean try to give lingloong or zhen wei since they provide RMA service for certain cases.
since the shop already take to another distri, then we can just wait what's next.

even the card is broke while not doing something against the warranty also be like this. make me afraid to change the stock cooler to aftermarket
unsure.gif
*
I already open up the cooler to replace the thermal paste, even THAT makes me a little bit uneasy thinking if that would terminate the warranty privileges... sweat.gif

Bro, do email your brand's technician when you wanna replace the cooler in order to gain some credibility if you are to be given a green light to do so.
I emailed my brand (Powercolor) and they said as long there's is no damage done by 'improper re-installation of the cooler, then everything is fine' thumbup.gif


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post Jul 20 2010, 07:27 PM

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This "changing to aftermarket cooler will void the warranty" is actually a conspiracy created by the manufactures themselves.
Even among themselves they know such thing should not void the warranty...(infact it could possibly lessen the RMA activity because the aftermarket cooler is better than theirs thus pro-longs the life longevity of the cards.)

See, it's a legal issue thingy, they don't want to be viable by other brand's aftermarket cooler if things goes wrong from the installation of the A.M. cooler...
Just to be on the safe side, the installation of A.M cooler are unfavorable to them and they will rewards us the penalty in the form of 'warranty void' if we were to do so...

So the best thing for any cards owners (everywhere around the world) is to be assertive when changing coolers, LEAVE NO EVIDENCE whatsoever of aftermarket cooler installation when you RMA your cards..

Another thing, when putting back the stock cooler for RMA, remember to tighten the screws the exact "tightness" like how the card came out of the box...if you notice, these screws are pretty tight to screw off first time, some manufacture have a 'certain protocol' of how tight they screw their cards.

When you know this simple rule of 'pandai-pandai tukar heatsink', you can change your coolers multiple times and still be 'RMA eligible' biggrin.gif



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post Jul 21 2010, 03:08 AM

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QUOTE(V3nz @ Jul 21 2010, 12:57 AM)
i say try 1st mah brows.gif

plus now money no enuff lah tongue.gif
*
Let me say this, right now you still have the opportunity to sell your 5770 and topup few hundred ringgits for a better card, because once you CF you have to commit to use those 5770's for a long while...so you gotta choose between sticking to the 5770, CF it or trade/topup for a better card...

Why am I mentioning this? because two 5770 is slightly better than 5850 but cost around RM600+RM600 = RM1200... 5850 is only around (even below) RM1000 and needs a moderate OC'ing to match those CF'ed 5770s...
Keep in mind CF can sometimes micro-stutters in certain games...

And it's easier to sell one great card then two good cards... tongue.gif

Remember, you're 5770 is still worth it's price right now, as in today...price will depreciate very soon, so decision is crucial... sweat.gif

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