I just noticed this symptom this morning. When the car is idling (or when I'm not stepping on the accelerator) with aircond on, the car shakes very badly and the engine feels like it could die anytime. When I turned it off, the engine feels normal again.

I parked my car and put it to P and tried turning the AC off and on several times and observed this:
AC on - car shakes badly.
AC off - car doesn't shake.

My friend told me his car had this symptom before his compressor died in a spectacular show of white smoke.

So could the compressor be the culprit? Please help!

Edit: Oh my car is a 10-year-old 1.5L auto Wira.

This post has been edited by Aurora Boreali: May 27 2010, 10:02 AM

Inspect the engine mounting, probably cracked and have to change. This will cause the car to shake badly. Also, you will need to get the air regulator thingie serviced. Probably clogged with carbon or dust. Usually they will wash it with diesel/petrol.

if only shakes when ac on, it sounds like wiring / battery problem...

to sum it up: when the ac also gets power from alternator / battery, there is not enough power to provide sufficient spark to your spark plugs, hence the shake.

or maybe the spark plugs are so worn out, even sufficient power will not produce a good spark.

possible solutions: change spark plugs, check wiring, add voltage stabilizer, add grounding, etc...

last time.. my kelisa also liek that...

the mechanic told me i hav 2 prob... thermostat and my fuel injection (throttle body) is not betul anymore... i didnt repair... i sell the kelisa and buy saga... 10 yrs old also..

This post has been edited by omara86: May 27 2010, 10:22 AM

more like certain vacumm hose crack

mounting - not necessary coz that's not the cause of the shaking...
air cond unit - not big effect... my previous case, i did refurbish my aircond system (compressor, piping, filter, bla bla) still no improvement for my shaking prob.

my case is hav sumthing to do with throttle body timing/firing...

Hm, the problem here is:

AC on - car shakes badly.
AC off - car doesn't shake.

Maybe I should send it to the workshop... but I don't want the mechanics to slaughter my wallet!

when this happened??... all the while got this problem or jz this morning??..

if its fuel injection, check the ISC socket at the back of ur throttle body... mayb loosen adi.... if ISC socket loosen adi, ur ISC gears wont work to bring the idling rpm up when load (aircond, power steering, etc.) is on...

if its carburetor, check the vacuum hose connected to the ficd and idle load compensator (the thing dat looks like an ufo).... disconnected vacuum hose wont activate the actuator to bring the idle rpm up...

aircond compressor gets power via belts connected to the pulley of ur engine...
sparkplugs worn out will affect the engine regardless aircond switched on/off...

install toyota FICD.
my wira have same problem too. after installed FICD, u can control air flow into engine manually. RPM wont drop anymore!

I gotta agree with omara86. Your symptoms sounds like a problem with the throttle body. Normally, the car would automatically push the RPM higher when under load from the air cond. Right now, your car doesn't seem to be doing that anymore, so it is no longer able to maintain a high enough RPM while idling with the air cond switched ON, therefore the engine is borderline about die, causing the vibration. You will notice when you are driving and not idle, the vibration goes away.

My wira 1.5 also got the same problem. Went to mech and was told the plastic gears in the throttle body broken. Changed to local spare plastic gear but problem still there. Mech told me that the local plastic gear may not be good quality and asked me to replace the throttle body which cost > RM 1000.

Of course I don't have enough money and my car is still having this problem. Any advice ?

wah... ur mechanic chop 9 u ahh??... sparepart shop selling rm1xx only... with labour charge max also rm300 laa....

Really ? How much it costed you and where did you installed it ?

that FICD cost arround rm60 only, u can fit it urself ler..

FICD ? whats is that

yo! i have old proton saga around 6-7 years old also have this problem exactly as <+Newbie+ > said...so how much will it cost to repair it? any shop recommended around subang and kelana jaya here? and what should i tell the mech? pretty scare that they will chop me lol. newbie for my car, juz got it from my bro...

thanks in advance...

Tell us more what is FICD, what does it stand for and how does it work to increase the idle speed of the engine?

Is it being used to decrease the stoichiometric ratio or increase the amount of airfuel mixture electrically?

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Added on July 26, 2010, 7:05 pmCar shake? Not engine shake?

This post has been edited by J1@l_ l_l l\l: Jul 26 2010, 07:05 PM

fast idle control device
its basically an adjustable actuator where it allows an amount of air leaked into the engine to increase the engine rpm, when the aircond kicks in
only works for fuel injection engine as ecu compensates the bypassed air with fuel, hence increasing the engine rpm

no it is not used to increase or decrease the air fuel ratio... it is not a piggyback ecu

Compressor problem you either get no air cond or air cond with hot air (magnetic coil) so it has to be something else.

Just to confirm tht FICD is only being used in carburettor vehicles?

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Added on July 27, 2010, 8:30 amAlvin, I hv an assumption what if the idle speed is already low but with the aircond comppressor jammed up due to lack of compressor oil?

This post has been edited by J1@l_ l_l l\l: Jul 27 2010, 08:30 AM

FICD is used on cars with EFI only. But this thread here http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/car...cnf40-4g15.html shows that carbs can also use.

I was told that compressor lube is in the gas that is circulated within the system.

This post has been edited by gregy: Aug 1 2010, 01:16 AM

So, U'd really confirm tht FICD can be installed only in fuel injected engines?

As for the compressor oil, yes, it is being circulated together with the refigerant. Tht was vat my assumption is.

Did you bother to visit the ZTH thread I referenced? I said it was intended to be used on EFIs, but in that thread someone successfully hooked it up to his carbie. Still, what's it to you anyway? You running a carb or EFI?

that toyota ficd is meant for fuel injection engines... as for carburetor engines, they have their own non-adjustable ficd which hooks up to another idle load compensator (something round look like ufo) which pushes the actuator down to control the carburetor idling...

means for fuel injection, u jz need an adjustable ficd.... for carburetor, u need non-adjustable ficd and that ufo thing (idle load compensator) to work...

could it be your aircond belt too tight? hmmm

I didn't visit the link posted but will go have a look later.

The reason I was asking is because of I saw U were saying "FICD is used on cars with EFI only", didn't U?

As the matter of fact, it isn't only tht car mentioned in the thread has managed to get the FICD installed, there are many carburettor inducted cars out there tht are fitted with FICD, one of a good examples is the VPC22 (Nissan) with A15 carburettor engine.

U may go and clarify with any automotive air-cond contractor or workshop if U are unsure bout FICD on carburettor running engines.

I'm driving a fuel carburettored Saga LMST.

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Added on August 2, 2010, 5:45 pmU were telling tht FICD "only works for fuel injection engine" in Ur previous post, I didn't know tht U were specific to the Toyota FICD.

This post has been edited by J1@l_ l_l l\l: Aug 2 2010, 05:45 PM

If you really want to be smart, be smarter la.

First off, catacombs said FICD was used on EFI cars only. Actually he is correct, cos you won't find it installed as a *stock item* on a carbbed car.

Secondly, you asked whether it was confirmed that FICD was used on carbureted cars only.....?????wtf?

Then I said it is normally used on EFI cars, but some ppl managed to *RETROFIT* the thing into a carbie.

So I wanted to know, what's your point in trying to clarify whether or not the FICD can only be used on a carb or EFI? In your case, nobody mentioned the FICD only being used on carbs, only *you* said it. lol

If you bothered to follow the thread from the start, the TOYOTA FICD was the only one being mentioned. You even asked what an FICD was for. So of course I referred to the Toyota implementation.

Are you a kid with low powers of comprehension? Read your own post first before getting on your soapbox next time.



This post has been edited by gregy: Aug 2 2010, 10:01 PM

erm... which post u mean??.. in zth??.. dat one mayb misleading as i was still newbie dat time...

ok, for confirmation... most FICD fitted to fuel injection engines to cure A/C idling problem is that toyota FICD (actually it is made by denso, fitted in toyota AE101/AE111)... how it works in a fuel injection engine is dat it leaks some air into the intake manifold bypassing the throttle body... MAP sensor detects the drop in manifold pressure, squirts more fuel in to bring up the revs... idling rpm can be tuned by determining how much air leaked in by adjusting the valve at the FICD...

how FICD works in carburetor is totally different... carburetor engines dont need to specifically use toyota FICD (which is the one i mentioned above)... it basically jz need a electrical valve (which is also called as FICD), idle load compensator (ILC) and some vacuum hoses... this is how it works... outlet of the FICD is connected to the intake manifold while the inlet is connected to the ILC... once the A/C compressor kicks in, the valve opens, allowing air to be sucked in through the FICD... a low pressure in the vacuum hose will actuate the ILC.... ILC is mounted close to the carburetor, which acts as an actuator to push onto the carburetor throttle lever....



i dont understand a single rant in ur post... if wanna retaliate, give some facts ler...

I don't understand in a good way y would U think tht was a rant and retaliation?

We all known tht FICD is being used on both EFI and carburettor engines regardless of stock or not.

The facts?

Perhaps U wanna re-read post #22 vat it was said, can U see the words "stock item" and "retrofit" tht came out later on post #28?

And for post #19, did I see the word "only works for fuel injection engine"? Were U refering to which specific FICD?

I would not treat tht as a rant and retaliation, but for those who feel offended, I don't know

post 22#... no idea what that guy talking... my english vr bad one...

post 19#... that FICD i was referring to toyota/denso FICD....

QUOTE

Tht is if,r ight? If U wanna die faster because of Ur retarded mind, go ahead plz. IF ma.

Should I say Ur blind or Ur were born without eyeball in Ur eye. U don't read or U r suffering frm memory lost?

Dunt simply bark with all those fxxkxxg lc stories of in sequence like a mad dog without even know vat have U written here U gxx dxxx mf.

I got no idea vats wrong with Ur capability of understanding simple language.

Dnm, now U came up with the words stock item la, retrofit la, normally la, wtf toyota implementation la, blar blar blar. U know vat? Nah ,,l,,  Go n look at vat U've written b4 U try to act smart monkey here lah , would U, cxbxx kniar.

Can rmb dis ar? "FICD is used on cars with EFI only", don't U know the simple meaning of ONLY? Huh?

Perhaps "So, U'd really confirm tht FICD can be installed only in fuel injected engines?" Did I say stock or retrofit? Can't U read?

I guess Ur not a retarded 1 kot, r U? Huh? Vats Ur gxx dxxm problem?

i dont understand those bolded words...

My car also face the same problem, when the aircond off ant car idle, the dashboard will shake badly until I suspect the dasboard had come off.
But last two weeks I did replace three mounting engine for a new one for a cost RM170.00...now the shake gone and its smooth even with aircond and engines on while idle.

I'll act blur if I were U. But since those words were not directed to U, perhaps juz 4get bout it.

Some1 was trying to act smart and confusing the forumers here without even knowing what has he wrote and didn't even bother to know it.

I know there r many "kids" and colleage boys here have no idea what they r posting and simply "tembak" even they r not sure vat they r posting thus confusing other forummers. These r the fellars who deserved of being "f**ked".

But aren't U suppose to make sure tht Ur f**king the right ppl b4 commencing the "fxxking operation"?

He muz have thought tht I'm a colleage boy or those "kid" who simply "tembak" nonsense without having the sense of logic or those who simply copy n paste the info here frm other source thinking they r very smart.

Shouldn't he look at the mirror 1st of his face 1st b4 posting? Dew....

now we know u big time sifu laa... so can keep ur rants urself... this is not ur personal blog... lolz...

Hey girl, go read back your post 21. If you're still feeling butthurt, maybe we should meet up for a TT.

Do U feel offended?
I'm very noob 1, thus I got no idea did I do anything like this is my personial brog?
C-fu? Did I say tht?

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Added on August 5, 2010, 4:08 pmIt seems like U had no idea I was replying to post #19 which suggested "only works for fuel injection engine" and didn't specific Toyota/Denso FICD.

Butthurt??? I can't find this word in my dictionary....

Meet up? It seems like U prefer discussion to be done in another alternative way do U? YES





This post has been edited by J1@l_ l_l l\l: Aug 5 2010, 04:08 PM

Ok pm me when you're free, we go TT ok? Just to yum cha tok kok sing song lol. Don't worry, it's not my way of getting to know girls lol.

Anyway, just like to make a correction on what I said earlier about the air-cond gas and lube. Although it's true that the oil is circulated along with the gas, over time the oil will get depleted.

I found out the hard way the other day when I took my Civic FD for a gas refill as I found the air-cond not so cold anymore. So this shop just filled up the gas for me and didn't charge me anything. He filled it kau-kau, more than the norm. Right after that the car felt heavier than usual, and everytime the compressor kicked in my idle would drop to 500 then recover, but the drop was severe enough for the car to vibrate like having a chill lol.

Feeling a little fcuked, I went to another air-cond guy to help diagnose the problem. After I told him about the earlier visit and how I wasn't charged at all, he suspected that the first guy simply filled in recycled gas for me. Recycled gas comes from other ppl's cars, so there's no telling its quality or whether there's any oil in it.

So what he did was drain out all the gas, then filled up new gas and a new can of compressor oil. Amazing. The car was cold again, and the idle problem was gone. So it seems originally, my air-cond was running out of gas *and* oil, especially under this current hot spell.

So for those of you who have idling problems, instead of just trying to treat the symptoms like by adding FICD, can perhaps try swapping out the air-cond gas and adding a can of oil first.

I also initially thought of adding FICD to "fix" my idling problem, but I feel better now after treating the cause instead.

Clawhammer, if you're reading this, now you know why I have no time and money for modding my rig anymore lol.

Hi guys,

I'm also having this problem with an old carb wira.
Besides the compressor, what else needs to be checked?
Basically RPM drops when air con kicks in and engine vibrates.
Engine mountings have been changed recently.

jz need to pusing 1 screw only... vr easy one...

haha.sorry for late reply.
I bought from someone unknown, contact him thru hp...
Then it only cost me RM42+RM5 shipping.

I installed it myself after do some research on internet.
simple only...have to cut TWO hose, Aircond compressor LIVE WIRE.
then use T-joint for the hoses...

RM60 below can done liao!

already using it for 1 months plus...still very good condition~

oh u mean the FICD ahh??

ah, so my car got this problem too. engine shake when idle with aircond on, but ok if off. hard to read thru this thread with the quarreling

so verdict is change engine mounting? how much would it cost?

Hi all, actually this problem happen to my Wira 1.5GL Auto quite long time ago..after reading and do some research..found out the Toyota FICD is the cheapest solution for me..

Seems everyone saying it's easy to fix and can DIY..but I don't want to do it myself(noob in doing this kind of things)..
If I would like to send to workshop, will they know about this Toyota FICD? and how much they will charge me?

My situation is when on AC, when the car idle, the RPM will up and down, and the engine sound like will die anytime..car a bit shaking..

hi all.
i faced the problem as well.
mountings were changed but problem still exist.
any good suggestion?

Engine mounting problem, my car experienced this before, whole car shake like hell. After changing, much better.

Mind you I have FICD in my car before and after the whole experience.

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Added on September 27, 2010, 6:35 pmAbout RM 200+ for the parts only, installation depends on mechanic. That is for Satria/Wira.

This post has been edited by GEFORCEXTREME: Sep 27 2010, 06:35 PM

anyone can recommend sifu in ipoh who able to install FICD or checking error for my wira? rpm up down up down.... @@ 2nd throttle body

THIS PROBLEM CAN BE SOLVE WITH ONLY ADJUSTING 1 SCREW! (in the event that all components are working properly). The best way to know that u only need to adjust the screw is.

1) Engine only gegar when you open the aircond
2) But when you press the accelerator, it become normal.
3) This only happen when you are in IDLE mode. When you are driving (press the accelerator), everything is good "even with aircond".


Yaa..seriously..only 1 screw (actually 2, there are 1 more at the back if u want to make it balance) i also have the same problem. Terbang RM 70 (Tuning + change spark plug) for nothing when hand it to mechanic. The mechanic dont tune it properly so that i need to go back there to change another part that he suggest " some aircond actuator-thingy". Lucky me i am a fast learner, i see the whole process when he tune the engine. It's just a matter of pusing a screw to adjust the rpm when in idle mode. I AM NO EXPERT IN CARS AND DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE COMPONENTS IN THE CAR. BUT I MANAGE TU TUNE IT at around 1.1 rmp when ideling!!. THE PROBLEM "SHAKING WHEN AIRCOND IS ON" vanish!!. If only i had this knowledge yesterday. I save RM 70. The spark-plug in my opinion is not necessary. Most kedai want to tapau ur money only. Do a little experiments on ur car. . Will attach the picture of the position of the screw later.

Sorry for bumping old thread. My saga lmst has the same issue, idle with air cond on it shakes and rpm back to normal when accelerating. Would you mind showing which screw are you talking about to tune the idle rpm?

To remove suspense, you may refer to the picture of post #2399 in the link below.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2900268/+2380

If the air con idling adjustment does not change even after adjust, then it could be the gold coloured round thing tht screw attached to it (called air con idling vacuum pump or 'vacuum actuator' in the pic) is spoilt. Pls make sure it is Denso brand when replacing. Cost about RM 90 few years ago. Local brand costs half the price but only last few months. Denso last for years. I purchased the Denso part from a spare part shop in OUG years ago.

Pls also check for vacuum hose for leak (those small hoses) as they tend to crack at either end of joint. It will cause the adjustment take no effect.

Note:
1)You need to rev a bit after each adjustment for new setting to take effect.

2) Proper way is to adjust the base timing without the air con screw then only adjust air con idling screw.

This post has been edited by mot88: Jan 30 2017, 01:42 PM

Did what you suggested, adjusted both screws and currently the car idle without ac is at 1.1k - 1.2k rpm and with ac on at full blast it's at about 800 - 900 rpm. Is it okay? Because anything below 800 is quite shaky already even the front bonnet shakes really hard. I'm afraid the fuel consumption might increase as before this my idle rpm without ac was 1k

Also, in the long run, is it better to install Toyota FICD to regulate the rpm?

This post has been edited by ricko99: Jan 30 2017, 04:21 PM

without air con should be ard 800 to 850rpm and with air con ard 950 to 1k rpm.I dont have the factory spec for exact figure.

Looks like your fast idling is not working. To get the it to work 3 items must be working
1) air con vacuum pump /vacuum actuator.
2) FICD (carb version)
3) vacuum hose not leaking and correctly attached.
For hose it should be run from engine block to ficd (denso carb version) and another hose from ficd to a/c vacuum pump.

Yes, the proton wira carb has ficd as well. LMST shld hv as well as using the same drivetrain. It looks like toyota ficd, attached to firewall with 2 small vacuum hose attached to it.

Last time,not working, I changed 3 items after fed up workshop doing it using generic local parts. Item 2 seldom spoilt but I changed it as not tht expensive.

1) approx m90 (oem denso for carb)
2) approx rm 80 (oem denso)
3) vacuum hose rm 2 for 1 feet ( abt 4 to 5 feet )
(price quoted is few years ago)

Correct vacuum connection is priceless..as even changed all 3 items but connection is wrong, fast idling (i.e with air con on) will not work.

This post has been edited by mot88: Jan 30 2017, 05:10 PM

So if I get you correctly, it means idle rpm with ac OFF should be lower than idle with ac ON?

Yes..If set properly and fast idling working, the rpm will drop a bit when air con on and then climb bk to slightly higher.

The fast idling is mechanically activated, tht explain the delay is more than electronically controlled.

If u need to set the rpm of air con off higher to compensate the load imposed when air con is switched on, tht explain tht fast idling mechanism is not working.

This post has been edited by mot88: Jan 30 2017, 07:39 PM

I played around with both screws again and I set my idle ac off rpm to 850. When I switch on my ac it drops to 700ish and once I rev the engine a bit, it hovers around 950ish. If I don't rev, it takes quite a while before the rpm goes up. I've checked the vacuum hose and seems like there's no leakage or anything like that. I checked my FICD is probably cap ayam brand (pacific or sth like that) but looks like it's adjustable as it has this one part that I can turn left and right. I think my hose connection are correct as well

From my experince, the correction of fast idling load should be 2 to 3 sec. The 1st thing is to ensure related hoses fit tight. Over time the hoses expand at the join end (bulging effect) causing it not air tight. Can cut at bulging area if the hose still have enough lenght. Not suggesting you to do that but thats maybe the root cause.Best to take out the hose to inspect. It could have micro crack.

Since it did climb back, but take longer, it shows the fast idling mechanism work but may not be optimum. I didnt adjust and dont think there is any adjument screw on the denso ficd for carb version. Maybe Proton changed the FICD supplier for newer batches.

Your hose connection looks correct based on your photos. Raw suction from engine block to FICD. Ficd block suction to a/c vacuum pump when air con off. When air con on, the ficd open the valve for suction to a/c vacuum pump, in turn pull the carb cable to add more air/fuel mixture.

For your reference on the adjustment screw at Toyota FICD for fuel injected car. Looks to me redundant for carb as there is adjustment screw at a/c vacuum pump (efi dont have a/c vacuum pump and rely on ficd screw for adjustment).
http://www.diytacra.com/2010/11/ficd-fast-...device.html?m=1



This post has been edited by mot88: Jan 31 2017, 11:28 AM

I see. Could be the vacuum pump or the ficd faulty but I have no way to test that. So I guess I'll just try to replace the ficd with Denso first plus change the entire tubing. And if that still doesn't help, I'll try to change the vacuum pump. Hopefully it's not carb or throttle body issue. I'll let you know if anything happens. Thanks for the info, appreciate it

I have the same problem as well but during the A/C on..... Went to mech shop cant find the problem at all.... Any god here can help me out?

Idle with A/C on rpm went super low and car vibrate as hell..... As soon as it reach 0 rpm then the RPM bump back up to normal....
If idle without A/C on then is normal....

My car is Vios NCP 93 2012 model.

Anyone know whats the problem?