What is worse is that we pay for their salaries and again pay for their services via licenses etc.

Our lady Dr. perhaps thinks is about time she became richer and famous, for whatever reasons.

For me, it is really quite straightforward. Make all birds' nest processors adhere to certain reasonable standards and SIRIM( or whichever dept.) will audit all standards for export so that any importer will be confident of the Made in Malaysia mark.

Also that way we do not become victims of non Malaysian processors.

As with any food product, irradiation can be used to kill all the bacteria so that preservatives are not needed. Nitrites and nitrates are used as preservatives as well as enhance colour.

Vacuum packaging will ensure products remain viable for a longer period.

No export of raw EBN, and if our processing standards are good, nobody will need to export raw EBN. China will beg for the supply of Made in Malaysia EBN.

Why track and trace when we are capable of processing to an acceptably high standard.

MOA needs their heads checked.

Ha ha, I thought I was the only one ! I actually harvested some of the nests that I had stuck on with hot glue, let my maid clean it and actually cooked it ! Fortunately I put the BN soup in the fridge and found this hard lump before eating. we of course threw it all away.

Much of the 'red' nests are actually made in China as well as the fake nests. The margin is much much higher when the dealers do it themselves in China.

When the consumers realise the fallacy of 'Blood' nest they will stop consuming them and then the prices for red nests will drop.

Adulteration to increase the weight of normal white nests will always continue everywhere. It is up to the various agencies to apply manufacturing standards to make certain brands trusted and recognised.

BTW we can always stain nests red with food colouring which will be permitted but must be declared as having been stained.

Yes, natural red nests mostly contain iron oxides, which are red and also harmless.

For some strange reason, the chinese sinseh recognised, many many years ago, that these nests as good for women and the blood. Modern day iron supplements are used to treat some blood disorders and good for women especially when they have their menses.

These days it will be more effective just popping an iron supplement daily.

You can spray iron salts onto BN and after awhile it will turn rusty. Spraying makes the colour too even and looks unnatural.

Henna will turn nests reddish brown and will not wash off easily. This is the stuff Malays use on their finger tips.

Cochineal will turn nests bright red but washes off though not completely.

There is also a red dye used in tattoos that will not wash off easily. Whether this is edible or not I do not know.

you should have consulted this forum and I could have helped you FOC. There are always people in your area or nearby that you can discus with to have a better understanding on this business.

Which is why I have often said to D L that with his knowledge and experience he should have been a consultant instead of those who have learnt from him now become famous consultants.

It is up to the customers to be not gullible, after all, people willingly pay to go to these seminars, the information given are not lies, though obtainable for free elsewhere. It's like employing someone else do your research for you. You always have a choice not to go.

As you probably have read, the SOME local Swiftlet associations are trying to do something about this problem with China, so support your local association .

G1L4 aroma. Any reports from people who have used this?

Thank you all for any information. There are several people selling the above product, any idea on best pricing ? and any fakes on the market ?

I am in contact with Ben, it is just that I like to have the opinion of as many people as possible.

Selamat Hari Raya to all my Muslim friends and Happy Holidays to everyone. May multitudes of AF invade your BH and the price of raw EBN reach US$2500/kg. again.

DVS requires everyone that deals with Edible Birds' Nest to register with them by 1st October 2011. Check out their website.

What can happen if we do not register?

Auditorium Parcel D
Pusat Pentadbiran Kerajaan Persekutuan
Putrajaya

29-09-2011 at 10.00am.

Ministry of Health will have a dialog Session with all Birds' Nest processing players.


Anyone, everyone, in KL, please attend.

So I have been told;

There is a need to trace the nests to particular house in case of disease outbreak etc. (Which is fair I think)

Adulteration by processor is traceable by the brand mark. (Which is also fair but depends on local enforcement)

Some associations were consulted because not every association was represented. (Some never bothered to respond)

IMHO there are so many loopholes that we do not have to worry as BH operators.

If official processors control the prices, then it is just as easy for the BH owners not to sell to them or even sell to unlicensed processors. It works both ways. So long as there is a price differential between supplier and wholesaler and end user it will be self regulatory.

Export but unlicensed processors will continue as the demand will always be there and the loopholes are far too many for the GOM and GOC to plug.

The MOA/DVS must be seen to be doing their respective jobs. These ideas though not entirely original, are implemented hopefully to safeguard the EBN Industry. If it works it will no doubt be good for Malaysian EBN.

What the MOA/DVS fail to address is the practicality of the whole project. Right from initial implementation, subsequent and continued enforcement to the continuous and immediate support required especially in the initial phase to iron out all the associated teething problems. MOA/DVS has to ask itself whether they have the capability to undertake such a massive project.

This system is similar to the Postal/Courier systems that are in place successfully for many years now.

IMHO For us BH owners, if DVS supplies specially marked boxes to each and every productive BH, related hardware for barcode reader, software and internet connection to the central mainframe, it might be a good move, but it will fail horribly if BH owners are to be charged a premium, instead of a subsidized price for the hardware and software. FOC will of course be counter productive.

It may also deter thieves as it will not be easy to move unregistered nests.

Of course end users will not be interested where exactly the nests come from but it will be assuring to know that they are receiving a 'strictly' GOM controlled product.

The processors and packagers will gain from their branding and with good marketing it should further enhance their sales.

As with all 'good' ideas, implementation will be difficult enough with the cooperation of everyone, if we do not agree and cooperate, it will be impossible for MOA/DVS to go far. So, in actual fact, MOA/DVS may introduce anything they want, ultimately, it won't work if we do not want it to.

We as BH owners and EBN processors, packagers and exporters must look to the future on how to safeguard our investments and not let other players sabotage our sweat and tears.

First, we must spread the fact that Malaysian EBN is pure. Malaysian EBN from selected brands are guaranteed pure and adhering to all universally accepted processing and packaging requirements.

Thank you for your report.

It is indeed heartening to know that someone who does not yet have a BH, has taken the trouble to attend this meeting and even more so to report to this forum so soon after. Bottle of wine for you when we meet.

What is your assessment of the representation from the EBN industry? Do you think this industry was well represented, and by intelligent, knowledgeable reps from all corners of MY ?

Thank you again.

cc to Forum.

Dear Dato Paduka Beh and Ms. Loh,

I note with dismay that this issue of Nitrites in dry EBN does not seem to be scientifically pursued.

My argument follows;

1 Dry EBN is never eaten without some form of cooking with water, the preparation involves soaking and washing with water several times.

2 Dry EBN expands when soaked in water, the volume is approximately 1 pc.expands to small rice bowl or 10gm EBN to 200gm. with water.

3 Nitrites and Nitrates are highly soluble in water.

Assuming, 1 pc. EBN is 10gm for ease of calculation, and the nitrite concentration is 100PPM

a after soaking only, without washing and changing water, the nitrite PPM will become (10gm / 200gm) ie one twentieth.
which is then 1/20 th. of 100PPM = 5PPM of soaked EBN

b Depending on temperature, duration and volume of water used, the amount of nitrites dissolving into the wash water will vary.
Assuming initial soak of 30 mins. and then 2 changes of water with a short period between changes for cleaning,
a large amount of nitrites and nitrates would be eliminated. Empirical analysis will easily confirm actual values.

A safe assumption of over 50% reduction can be made due to the nature of EBN's expansion in water and the solubility of nitrates and nitrites.

So, EBN prepared and ready for brewing would then become <2.5PPM nitrites starting from 100PPM Nitrites dry EBN.

Addition of any water in the brew would further dilute and therefore lower the PPM of nitrites.

It must be stressed that EBN is seldom eaten in concentrated 'jelly' form and more often mixed with a copious amount of water for obvious reasons.

Also note that the same restrictions applied for preserved meats, vegetables etc. cannot be applied as these foods are not prepared in the same way as EBN and many are consumed cooked but undiluted. eg we do not wash luncheon meat, ham, and we stir fry vegetables. EBN should be considered an unprocessed CONCENTRATE of which the nitrite concentrations will be greatly reduced after preparation.

MOA, MOH should be made aware of these glaring differences between Dry EBN and normal foodstuffs.

Your effort in enlightening the various GOM departments as well as relevant ROC authorities with these facts and all your ongoing work for the EBN industry is greatly appreciated.

NITRITE CONTENT


Reply received highlighted several points.

Points raised are being brought up with DVS and MOH.

DVS & MOH are taking samples from several BHs all over Malaysia to ascertain the general concentration of Nitrites so as to be able to present the analysis to China. These results will hopefully be the basis for determining the acceptable concentration of Nitrites in EBN.

EBN industry in Malaysia is being sabotaged by our own people. A group claiming to be able to reduce nitrites in EBN to 0% if the EBN is Processed following their method and using their equipment. This is being widely advertised.

There is a huge discrepancy between the reported Export figures by Malaysia and the recorded Import figures by China.

Who can direct me to where I can find out more about EBN cleaning machines.

Thank you in advance.

Discus here. There are many important lurkers here and moving to another forum will be counter productive.

Dato Beh has a higher stake in EBN than most people in Malaysia, so hopefully he will negotiate a deal that will be good for everyone.

Seems crazy that Malaysians send raw EBN to Indon to clean and then these cleaned nest are returned to Malaysia (incl. other nests) to be exported, inflating Malaysian production and export figures.

The IRS will be thinking 90% of people are evading tax.

As for BH in Padi land, it is not the same in every state. Ask your local land office and local council.

All to do with the official use of land. Some are agriculture, some padi, some industrial, some housing. Not double standard but National Land Code. Can apply for conversion.

Correct me if I am wrong but I recall Land titles in Penang and Malacca are different to all the other states as these two have First Grade titles. Though First Grade implies that you may do anything you want on the land, you are also governed by the National Land code, The Town council Bye Laws, The Drainage and Irrigation act,the mining acts, etc.

All titles have on them the specific use for the land. Commercial, Rubber, Agriculture, Padi, etc. Each category pays a different amount of tax.

The 1GP states clearly the type of land that BH can be built on.

The use of land can be converted with permission from the local council and land office. Fees are applicable. The state of Penang has stipulated that no padi land can be converted to any other use. The reason are numerous. Other states may differ. One of the main reasons for the halt on padi land conversion is because much of padi land was being converted to commercial purposes(housing, industrial etc.), divided into smaller lots and sold at a premium, escalating land prices in the state, and depleting the available land for padi farming.

If you want to know in detail, take your title to the local Land Office and ask them.

Dato Beh publicized the Red nest fiasco, the Nitrite level scare, etc. Dato is intimately involved and knows this inside out. It may be just sometimes that his focus may be in the wrong direction as we see it. When the big fish go to war, us small fish can only keep out of the way and hope for the best.

Directly under the Veterinary Dept. which is under the Ministry of Agriculture. Just register. Local Council then issues the permit to operate. Not all states adopted 1GP, Penang yet to be announced if I remember correctly.