I offer reward of Rm5k for any thief or thieves caught trying to break in. CCTV will confirm them trying to break in and local vigilante group takes over from there.

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Added on June 22, 2011, 12:02 pmThis is where the DVS of south east Asia should go to work ! They must ascertain what the NATURAL level of Nitrites and Nitrates is for EBN with this data they can then determine whether there has been added Nitrites or Nitrates which may have been added to preserve the EBN.

Some foods may NATURALLY have higher levels of Nitrites than the permissible levels.

This may be a tit for tat reaction as many Chinese canned foods have very high Nitrites and Nitrate levels, which have been banned from import in many countries. Some of us have been brought up on these products, eg, pork leg, luncheon meat, spam, corned beef, preserved vegetables etc.

This post has been edited by tuckfook: Jun 22 2011, 12:02 PM

Both entrances are against the free flow of flight. The birds are unlikely to populate the lower floor quickly or in large numbers.

In the long run, population will be slow to increase and many young birds will die.

Imagine yourself if you were to fly into your BH at high speed.

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Added on June 26, 2011, 9:20 pmYES and every single sq. ins. of land is under one authority or another, sometimes overlapping.

This post has been edited by tuckfook: Jun 26 2011, 09:20 PM

1 short internal flight path in the roving room forces the birds to dive down, which they won't until they are very familiar with the place. Gentle flight path always better especially when you are building a house especially for the birds..

2 small roving room gives less turning(roving) space perhaps less conducive for newly arrived birds and future baby birds.

solution,

1 set the inter floor voids to the next section back. increase the inter floor void to max.

2 increase the roving room to cover 2 sections.

3 expose the staircase to be able to lead the birds downwards, if possible.

comment: a staggered void is virtually trying to make the flight path downwards as smooth as possible( but in one plane). By allowing the birds to turn and zig zag down also offers the same, but in multiple planes, if you see what I mean.

send me your google sketch up files, easier for me to describe by changing the the drawing.

Do not have walkway at far end of the roving room as it acts as a barrier to the new incoming birds. The air well should not have any obstructions.

In out holes should be closer to the corners so that when a bird comes in it will not overlook an abyss.

are you being serious?

well, in a way yes. Lost of wasted space, partitions to stop the birds in coming in, incomplete sketch(no details) etc.

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Added on July 3, 2011, 7:19 pmImagine being a bird flying out in the bright sunshine and suddenly entering a hole that has perhaps 5% of the ambient outside light.

The eyes have to adjust very quickly, which these birds are quite capable of. Just before entering, sonar mode is switched on and the hole, side walls are detected, all the time being conscious of predators. Suddenly, the floor disappears, there is absolute black below and no sonar from the floor, shocked, the bird rushes out towards the light. All this happens in less than 1 sec. ( This is akin to Disney's Space Mountain Ride for humans.)

It is only because of the presence of bird sounds from below that will encourage the bird to perhaps venture in again.


This post has been edited by tuckfook: Jul 3 2011, 07:19 PM

and if there are no old birds to guide new birds into and out of the house ?

The cave walls are full of features and does not have changes that are sudden whereas coming in from a window can be. One of the main reasons for in/out holes to be close to a side wall.

A top opening allows light to travel all the way to the bottom, a window opening does not, especially for a 3 or more storey house.

If we could build a BH with a funnel type opening, it might be ideal. A small hole opening slowly into a large amphitheater.

Most associations are sad cases....

Everyone is in it to their own advantage in one way or another and those who earnestly want to help get booted out of the committee because of their logical and amiable opinions.

Unfortunately, DVS has taken the position that anyone registering must be a member of an association(related).

There are far too many rough and tough, hardheaded Swiftlet ranchers who do not give a damn as to what may happen to fellow ranchers, so the problem will always be there. The local councils do not have the muscle to enforce the laws on these people and it will be sad for the others when the crunch comes.

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Added on July 11, 2011, 1:50 pmPlease post details so that we may help.

Location, plan of BH, distance to nearest successful BH , type of sound played(samples) etc.

Obviously you are near some BHs for your BH to be visited by some. Something must be right for them to have stayed and shit in your place.

anti Pigeon nail carpet would not make any difference unless the hole is very narrow.

The tempt. is usually highest at night about 9pm. check. Humidity not a very important factor for the time being esp. in Malaysia,

Why em ?

What did you do from day 1?



This post has been edited by tuckfook: Jul 11 2011, 01:50 PM

Location in relation to other BHs is usually a very good indicator but in your case it is probably unnecessary.

You did not do your homework !

For some unknown reason, if a whole row of shophouses is converted individually to BHs, several in between will be unsuccessful or experience very slow growth. This is the case in many swiftlet areas and had led to the conclusion that BHs are about 70% successful.

By not mounting your tweeters at the entrance hole only attracts the pigeons to stand there. You are lucky bats did not invade your BH as it is probably only the sound from the tweeters that will keep the bats away.

You want the smell of a heavily occupied BH to attract new birds and you need as much swiftlet shit as possible. Keep this damp at all times or it'll be useless. Change this every 3 months or less. Depending on the size and ventilation, a couple of bags of Ammonium Bicarbonate may help. All you need to do is to cut the tops open, ammonia gas will be produced and the ammonium bicarbonate will slowly disappear.

A humidifier must be used of the ammonia will disappear quickly and also the shit will dry up.

Another important factor is to have your entrance hole higher than your neighbours'

The internal of your BH must also be suitable with tweeters at every corner or every other corner to further increase your chances. Do not use corner planks.

Make sure no duress sound is being played.

Without internal plans and overall plans there is nothing much that can be done. Cergau has set an excellent example on offering complete information, if you want other to comment.

Ha ha ha ha...all this talk about consultants....and a disturbing email from friend,

DL has been in this business for so very long, and yet he is not a recognised consultant BUT some of those who learnt from him are now famous CONsultants. His students are making the money whilst he gave the information for free.

Coffee with BH friends last night reminded me of events long ago when some people asked alot about BHs, in forums like this, and now they are consultants with extensive claims but no history of building many, if any successful BHs.

Prime example !!!!! DVS knew nothing about BHs, consulted some of us when they first recognised the importance of this industry, now they are the Malaysian Authority in this matter, with innovative ideas that will overturn the industry like RFID identification for swiftlets, nests, BHs. Very soon if I find my Birds in your BH, since I can now identify them, I'll sue you.

Read between the lines, this industry is so simple that people with no related experience can become successful in one way or another but there exists some factors yet undiscovered that affect the level of success. This forum contains all the basic requirements for a successful BH but for some of us, it is a channel to perhaps discover why and what factors contribute to the less than desired results for some BHs.

BTW, if anyone is contemplating a BH in a rubber plantation, just take all the rubber trees within 100m down and you may solve the problem. Why swiftlets do not prefer rubber trees to oil palms has something to do with the leaf structure and flight abilities.

Now somebody please tell me why I've got more birds on one side of the building than the other. New ideas welcome, old ideas only show that you've not been reading this forum ; )

see what I mean by many people not bothering to read but expect to be spoon fed......wasting valuable time which should be used to discover new things.

BTW Ayah, 100m diameter will be over an acre, I think : )


I'm serious about asking why one side has more birds than the other, refer to some earlier posts from me.

I have about 4 hours of video recordings of my roving room, showing young birds learning how to fly, new birds checking out the place, placement of stairs on one side and how the birds react etc. Anyone interested, please suggest a good video compression format and I can compress it and place in a file sharing site.

Why should sodium Nitrate and sodium Nitrite be an issue ?

These are known to form carcinogenic compounds when cooked at high heat with meats especially, which does not happen with EBN.

Both these compounds are currently being used as preservatives in a variety of meats and vegetables.

So why does it affect the EBN industry ? Is it because the processors are adding these to preserve the EBN or because Sodium Nitrate also turns EBN reddish, as in corned beef ?

It is clear that the levels of these 2 chemicals is not natural and has been added by someone along the chain of supply. These are the people sabotaging the business.

Moreover, both, nitrite and nitrate are soluble in water so soaking and washing before cooking will eliminate most of these 2 chemicals.

It is obvious that someone is trying to manipulate the market.

So, why are the Associations not actively correcting this problem ?

This is where the Malaysian MOA and DVS should take action to educate and negotiate with the buying countries. It will be normal to set acceptable standards for these finished products to be exported.

It is only my guess that the major importers are gearing towards importing RAW EBN and as a means of stopping our MOA from banning the export of raw EBN, they rightfully claim that nitrates and nitrites are being illegally added to exported/processed EBN.

When raw EBN is imported into these countries in large quantities, they will benefit from all the associated downstream processes, including adulteration and coloration.

Malaysia will lose on the cleaning services of about USD250/kg. x tonnes exported...

just speculating.........

In Georgetown, Penang, there are many areas where pigeons are very abundant, so much so that there are complaints to the city council. They are caught with a throw net and the turned into delicious pigeon curry by some nasi kandar stalls.

If you remove a breeding pair, there won't be any to form a colony, don't and you will soon have many, enough to make curry, regularly.

This post has been edited by tuckfook: Aug 2 2011, 04:51 PM

the 2 files are about 4GB each or can split to about 50 files of about 100MB each. Only useful if you want to study how the birds fly within a confined space otherwise boring.

Do pm me link of 'innovative' planks.

Consider carefully, does a staircase design really increase space or create more work and space for all the things we do not want, like cockroaches and lizards and rats ?

Has it not been made known that the AF is probably Muslim ?

Listen for the Azan in the evenings at sunset, and within 5 minutes the birds will start returning to roost.

Playing distress sound near somebody's BH is not ethical. If you did it near my BH I might shoot your tweeters out ; (

If distress is played near a BH in the evenings about 1 hour before Azan and there are few birds circling, maybe repeat again when the skies are gloomy or after rain. If same results, I would suspect any new BH built nearby might have similar results. Then try again after a year or so or never.

Well said WW.


Unfortunately us Chinese are prone to undercut. I was in the photo processing business and at association level, we all agreed to maintain prices but one idiot reduced prices and from there sparked a price war until it wasn't viable to own the business.

If this happens with EBN all the newcomers will suffer, the newer you are the worse it will be.

The figures might look good but in nature, if 50% of offsprings make it to adulthood, that will be very very good for the species. I am not sure but I would think the survival rate is probably about 25% or less, which is much better than most other animals.

Deaths are from predators, sickness and weakness, accidents and other natural causes.

Nobody has been able to make any count or research on this as there are too many factors involved especially as these birds are free flying.

Forced harvesting certainly reduces the numbers, as proven in the case of cave birds.

Our Gov must engage China to educate them that nests are naturally not pure white. The consumption of pure white nests means that the nests have been treated with chemicals. This will hopefully take the load off trying to produce whiter nests and save the young birds or eggs from being destroyed.

I think the vet dept wants to get the GPS location of each BH for their database, as this is far more accurate than street address etc.

As for tracking the birds, it can only be done with tagging and then checking participating BHs for specific tags. GPS on birds currently not possible, battery or solar power already too heavy. Too many limitations. Radio collars maybe but then again short ranged and heavy too.

VET dept's rfid is to tag nests coming from specific BH so that they can identify the nests but this is easily removed during processing, this is supposedly to be able to identify nest from each BH to aid identification of nest in case of disease, adulteration etc.

I heard the rumour that spouse of high level VET dept.head sells RFID chips.

Crazy ideas from equally crazy people with nothing better to do.