Do you believe in the six degrees of separation?

The theory is that 2 people are only 6 steps or less away from each other via a friend-of-a-friend chain.

To prove that Justin Bieber or Miley Cyrus or David Beckham are just 6 friend away from you, you just have to find a friend who knows someone who knows someone, 6 times or less, until they reach one of these celebrities. Using the same way, you can also prove a personal connection to anyone from a Papua New Guinea tribesman to Queen Elizabeth.

What I am interested in is whether anyone can think of a case to disprove this theory of six degrees. Anyone?

Why six but not five or seven?

Where is the studies for this theory?

Actually some say 5. The theory originated by Frigyes Karinthy in 1929. In 1961 another guy called Michael Gurevich did a detailed study of it in his phD paper.

You can google it up for more info.

ok now understand what is it. After reading : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

But I think this is just a statistic gimmick. Cause with each contact, the span of the connection becomes bigger. By the time it gets to six, the probability of getting you connected with another person is much much higher. Therefore, this theory becomes more "probable".

It's like saying you throw a dice for six times. You call out a number you want. By the time it's six times, your chances of getting the number becomes higher.

first you need to prove the six degree of seperation is true.

some remote aborigines with limited access to "outside world" also can be connected to some celebrities in 6 steps too?

Why not?

1. The aborigine has a friend in a nearby village.
2. That friend has a relative who works in town.
3. The relative has a boss whose cousin studies in Australia.
4. The cousin has a facebook fren in America.
5. The facebook fren has a sister who works as a talent agent in entertainment line.
6. The sister knows Justin Bieber in person.

it's all based on probability

1) the aborigine has a friend who has only one friend (that aborigine)
2) end of story

You missed out one line. That one friend has no other friends, acquaintances or family member that knows any other people.

---

Added on May 7, 2010, 2:01 pmBut if its already proven true, it removes any reason to prove it false right? A proven constant cannot carry two values.

Anyway I tested the theory on myself. Not the most scientific I know but it seems to hold water, mostly within 5 degrees. I'm just trying to think of a scenario that can poke a hole in that theory.


This post has been edited by Beastboy: May 7 2010, 02:01 PM

no,it has to be falsifiable if it falls under science,even if a statement is proven to be true,you still have to formulate a condition in which the proven statement can be shown false...

Hmmm... can u give an example?

I can't wrap my mind around a scenario where I have 5 fingers (proven true) and a condition in which that statement can be shown false.

When you use celebrity as an end of the line, then your line will close in real fast, for celebrity works through relationship power, and the level of their fame will be determined by how efficient their network would work.

Try choose both end of the line from some nobody, for example, one that comes from a hermit country with minimal international trade and very limited internet connection such as North Korea, to some nobody from a remote area whereby his country has no historical trade relationship with North Korea. I have no idea but lets say Liberia.

With facebook and internet connection out of the reach, the connection will be seriously hampered.

If it takes 6 degree to connect a nobody to a celebrity, would you say it takes 12 degree to connect a nobody to a nobody?

This post has been edited by Vagrant: May 7 2010, 02:54 PM

e.g all swans are white,this is a falsifiable statement,its validity will be immediately rendered ineffective once a swan of different color is discovered...
if you cannot show under which circumstance a statement can be disproved,then it's not science,try looking at all of the scientific laws and theories,they all share the same property,i.e they are falsifiable,you can prove them wrong if counter evidence are found,though they're accepted as facts by scientists...
and note that science does not deal with absolute certainty,it changes with the discovery of new evidence...

This post has been edited by CleverDick: May 7 2010, 03:38 PM

True, but the all swans are white proposition would immediately attract the hasty generalization fallacy wouldn't it, just on the point that its a generalization. How it applies to the proposition there are 5 fingers on my hand I don't know, as its not a generalization but a specific physical manifestation. I wouldn't know how to disprove that I have 5 fingers.

We're in agreement then. I am trying to disprove the six degrees theory by trying to find one scenario that proves it false. Since the number 6 was an outcome of some guy's statistical analysis (I think), one can refute with an alternative analysis, maybe by checking if the sample size, sample choice or margin of error had led to a faulty conclusion. But we don't have the data so its much easier to just ask if anyone had seen a real black swan and prove the proposition false.

By starting a topic to ask for a disprovement experience/fact here would be a bit of a oxymoronic.

Those who participated in LYN webforum, most probably are well-connected via the internet social networking. Hence they are "unsuited" to be the 1st degree. But there might be chance they KNOW someone who are ultra-isolated, making that particular individual as 1st degree, and them as 2nd degree. Maybe there's a tiny chance you'll get what you wanted there

Without a real study, you guess is as good as mine.

Anyway it was probably a question like yours that led the original theory to come up with the number 6. If I was doing that study, I would definitely have taken the nobodies into account.

There's no need to formulate a scenario that can be used to disprove your finger assertion as it can be directly inferred from observation alone...
my point is whenever you make an assertion pertaining to science,you have to show in advance under what condition that the assertion will not hold and what will it take to make you disavow the assertion,that's what the meaning of falsifiability and how it is applied in science...

exactly...

This post has been edited by CleverDick: May 7 2010, 07:27 PM

Imagine it this way. Someone wrote a PhD thesis that claim all swans are white and becoz u have some doubt about it, you go to a forum like LYN and ask does anyone here know anyone who has ever seen a black swan? Not sure which part of that is oxymoronic.

Definitely no one in LYN is isolated, I agree. I wasn't asking for a real live case anyway. I was asking if you can imagine one scenario where this can be logically disproved. A thought experiment if you will.

Agree.

So lets take this to another level.

From abubin's wiki link:

"A Facebook platform application named “[Six Degrees]”[dead link] was developed by Karl Bunyan, which calculates the degrees of separation between different people.[citation needed] It has over 5.8 million users (as of December 20, 2009), as seen from the group's page. The average separation for all users of the application is 5.73 degrees, whereas the maximum degree of separation is 12."

Facebook serves one of the purpose of social networking in which it connects people. With Facebook/Internet, connections were reduced, for etc, some simply befriend with people that they would otherwise would not have known from the other side of the world. Yet with the help of technology, separation could go up to 12. Even then, less than 5% of the world population have facebook account.

Another problem is that it is best if you could take kids out of the equation, for you would need to consume at least 2 nodes to connect two kids between the end of the world, which means you must establish connection between a North Korean father and a Fijian father within 3 person or less to make your argument of 6 degree separation valid for those two kids.


So for a start, here are the case:

1. A 12 year old kid, home schooled, from North Korea. no access to internet.
2. The father of the 12 year old kid, Lighthouse keeper, hereby called as A
3. The employer of A
4.-------
5. The employer of B
6. The father of the 11 year old kid, sewage cleaner, hereby called as B
7. An 11 year old kid, home schooled, from Liberia, no money for internet.


The connection here, is on the assumption that the connection is best and least through the outside world by going through their father and the employer of their father. Now try connect employer A and employer B, you have to make assumption that all possible of employer A (for lighthouse keeper in north korea and their respective employer) must know employer B ( for all the employer of all sewage cleaner in Liberia)

I choose lighthouse keeper and sewage cleaner as a demonstration of the nature of their work, you could replace it with any work that requires a huge amount of time separated from the society.

This post has been edited by Vagrant: May 7 2010, 05:15 PM

As with any thought experiment, our imagination is the limit so I will try to give you a best case scenario to connect #3 to #5.

Lighthouse operators are usually connected to the shipping business. They provide coastal guideposts for ships.

Liberia is also connected with ships. It maintains a popluar maritime registry where it makes money.

There is a possible intersection point. #3 may at one time met #5 when he delivered oil to Pyongyang on a Liberian registered tanker. People connected to the same industry do cross paths. They may have met on shore break. #5 may have quit the shipping, went into self employment where he hired B.

So point #4 can happen under those circumstances.