then how much do you think he is worth

wow really need to agree with my mates, thats it is totally true for lowyat forum having so many brainless idiot talking crap, and +1111111 for those who patiently explained to them -.-"......salute !!!!

actually everything is just as simple as demand and supply theory...if you dont like it, you just simply stop demanding for it laaaa.
IMO, free market is needed and good for the society, it encourage for further innovation and creativeness of people to survive in this society, competition creates great opportunity in many forms, and it will benefits the consumers and user at the end.

We, the human being are dependable units, we depend on each other to survive, the point is where you willing to depend on. since you loves to talk about bill gates, lets talk about it, if US did not release and intro the technology of internet to the world after the world war 2, bill gates' idea of everyone having a pc in their home would not be success. If mircrosoft dint success and making huge profit from us, the number of multi-millionaires in US would drop dramatically. If microsoft did not dominate the industry and standardize the technology being use, we might not having the chance to type all these crap in here. If a boss did not smart enough to maximize the profit gained for the company, the investors might not choose that particular company to invest on, in other words, the company couldnt expand, and remain in small forms, and the amount of workers would remain, lesser lazy/stupid/brainless/whateveryouliketocall people having the chance to sacrifice their sweat and blood for wages as low as $1 per hour. For some people, $1 is simply enough to feed them for 1 day or even 1 week.
If no free market, meaning lack of competition and encourage for monopoly, can we still able to get a laptop with the price as low as rm1500?? If no competition, can we still enjoy low value of money for vegetables/meats/seafoods/NEEDS from tesco/giant/carefour????
if let a telecommunication company dominating the industry, can we still enjoy the low prices for sms/calls ??? only one of them, either maxis/celcom/digi/xxxx to exists, and how many people would have lost their jobs? If a business is overprice/overcharge, why would you still go for it?? and you should happy for it, because it creates opportunity for you to become boss and be rich, you can start a similar business to compete with it, and that time only you will understand why would they charge you that price....lolzzzz.
Btw, thats enough, times up and gtg~ byebyeeeeeeeeeee

This post has been edited by kennie: May 30 2010, 05:37 PM

a discussion on the question that does free market corrode moral character

http://www.templeton.org/market/PDF/BQ%20Market%20Essays.pdf

greed is not human's nature ...................

Confucius said before, a baby is like a piece of white paper, its the environment, the ink, that make black dots on it.


i dun believe human are born greedy, cause i have seen how little kids share the candy that they have.

it is capitalism that thought humans how to be greedy.

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Added on June 4, 2010, 11:40 pmAnother few reasons are like constant harassment of capitalist countries towards communist countries and dictators of communist countries like joseph stalin that are less interested in fully committed to Marx ideas.

in addition, marx didnt intend human to work for money, it was intended to make human work to express their humanity. I could explain more if the book "The communist manifesto" is allowed in Msia. In Capitalism state, only the most talented are rewarded, but not the most hardworking.

A doctor and a garbage collector, who is more important? The answer is neither, if there is no doctor, then all of us will be sick, but without ppl collecting the garbage, all of us would get sick too. But the doctor gets paid more than a garbage collector because of his talent, while that garbage collector might be far more hardworking than the doctor.

Yeah i know capitalist countries can have the hell lot of GDPs they want but its pretty useless if 99% of the money is only in the hand of a group of ppl and the rest are left to die in hunger.

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Added on June 4, 2010, 11:51 pmU mean like i hide my stock so there will be less supply and i can sell for higher price?

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Added on June 4, 2010, 11:55 pmin short, lembu yang punya susu, sapi dapat nama.

This post has been edited by FLampard: Jun 4 2010, 11:55 PM

Hi guys,

I want to recommend one documentary film which I recent watched, "Zeigeist : Addendum"
It will explain to the very root of the problem we have now with monetary based economy.
The film also proposed an alternative to the capitalism, a resource-based economy.
Watch it yourself, here is the link to the movie website:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
yes, you can watch it online FREE, just click the the picture and it will redirect you to google video. It's kind of weird in the beginning of the film but bear with it, I guarantee you that you can learn a lot from this film, and it will give a blast to your mind.

download and watch the yes man fix the world, interesting point on uncontrolled greed.

http://vodo.net/yesmen

Nice share.

Waste of time, it's hard to argue with a movie. If he had a website with the transcript maybe.

thanks for sharing

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Added on August 14, 2010, 11:40 pmhere is the transcript u demanded. got it straight from quick google search.
http://www.wanderingsandmusings.com/wp-con...st_addendum.pdf

if u have watched the movie and u think it's a waste of time, i'm sorry.

ya movie is meant to be watched and discussed, not to argue.

This post has been edited by JowY: Aug 14 2010, 11:40 PM

to all of you who post links to movies , other threads and more videos...

why not summarize the point and put it right here for everyone to discuss rather than just lazyly posting a link there and hope that people would watch it

so please maybe summarize what was said because if you can't then there is no point for you posting it because it meant you did not fully understood what was discussed in the movie either..

back on topic, I have replied to another thread Capitalism there so maybe a moderator would like to merge this thread with the other to combine the discussion or something

This post has been edited by daccorn: Sep 3 2010, 10:07 PM

Free market is not good to an advance country

I thought its supposed to be the other way around. By advanced you mean a proper developed country? with a stronger civil society and citizen movement group that is not curtailed by the government? Of course information has to be liberated and not kept secret or else people would find it hard to know exactly whats going on whether with their governments or corporations. But with a liberated civil society, I don't see how the free market could threaten them. But of course we are nowhere near the ideal situation even in developed nations.

Dude I think ur confusing freedom of information with free market. Ur comment actually made me lol.


edit: Just for the record, Micheal Moore is an idiot.



Dude u are just like Micheal Moore, except of a different breed.
Confucius is an old man preaching his own personal beliefs, he became famous in a period where much of the knowledge we have right now did not exist.

Humans are just another type of animal, but infinitely smarter than the rest of the animals. A human is not born a blank sheet, a human is born with his parents characteristics, he will be predisposed towards certain behaviours, just like his parents. He will also be born with his animal instinct, fear, desire, motivation, the desire to become better. These are all human characteristics. When we grow up we learn how to adjust and we learn how to grow up emotionally and mentally.

Just like how children are capable of sharing candy, they are also capable of being obnoxiously selfish. These behaviours are influenced by their environment, it does not mean that just because children share their candy that they are born generous. It's just a human trait, like many other traits.

This post has been edited by flight: Feb 5 2011, 12:00 AM

The Most Important Matrix Experiment Ever - Facebook

Introduction to the "Letter To The Main Culprit For It All": This is not a joke and this is not spam, "The Most Important Matrix Experiment Ever - Facebook" is the most important invitation that has ever been sent to you. What is 10 minutes of your time in respect to that which you still call life even though you're already dead on the most important fronts, or compared with the future of your children and their descendants? Nothing! Spread this invitation via forums, blogs, share it with at least one friend on Facebook if you can't somehow do more than that.





Most of us have seen the movie Zeitgeist Addendum. We call it evolution. It started about 30.000 years ago. "Star Trek" is not the future to which we are transported from the time of dinosaurs and mammoths, we are not in the Enterprise and we don't travel through space at the speed of light, instead we snail through our congested and polluted streets; I am not Spock, you're not Sulu, and there is no Kirk. Instead of trying to solve them, you spent 30.000 years avoiding the problems by inventing new names for them. Thirty thousand years of problems have piled up. And here we are today, even though we are technologically capable of settling all the inhabitants of this world to dwell in Paradise; on the way of self-destruction, completely powerless suffering the consequences of Hell which we've built not only for us but unfortunately for the rest of living and nonliving nature of this planet. We are all chronically short of money, but we've never had so much money as we do now, we never created money so easy as we do today - trillions of dollars, euros and other currencies are coming into the existence out of nothing by a simple click of a mouse. My friend, this is not the global financial crisis, this is a global crisis of nonsense and false morality, the biggest robbery in history is ongoing. The problem has never been a problem in itself. The problem has always represented a reaction to the problem. My friend, without further ado, you are our biggest problem. Our problem is not the global financial elite, cunning lawyers, dirty politicians, corrupt syndicalists and all other mobs. Our biggest problem is you, that's right, literally you, with your first and last name.




I want to let you know that from this moment on, through my eyes, you are the main Culprit for all the unnecessary crap that we have been going through for ages. Our monetary system, the way it currently is, is not designed or constructed in a way to allow progress of the human civilization according to everyone's dream - peace and prosperity. Our monetary system has only one purpose - those who do nothing and have nothing, through deception in front of our own eyes with which they are pushing us into a trap of eternal debt, by deceit are stripping us of all potentitial mental and physical abilities that the nature has generously endowed upon us; by controlling every single aspect of life in our social communities, they are stealing our producution capacities and parasitize the fruits of our labor. There is nothing more pracious than life, and they stole our life, and you, yes you, are guilty for all of that.




Money is the primary source of power, money is that which determines what happens with us, and what is going on all around us. Absolute power does not originate from the creation of laws, but rather from the creation of money. Money has a greater influence on everyday life of the world population and each one of us individually than all the executive, judicial, and legislative decisions together. Due to the fact that centralized power is not feasible without centralized money, this symbiotic pair is a major cause of the disease that rots the educational system whose recovery was never even planned, the money is totally privatized and absolutely beyond the reach of our so-called democratic control. The above mentioned symbiotic pair is the most important common characteristic of all revolutions up to today, not even one single revolution in history has ever attempted to change the monetary system!




Terrible crime and a terrible devastation is behind us. Not even the most terrible crimes are possible without your cooperation - tacit approval. Global monetary sovereignty is in private hands, everything is in their hands, including the media. And the media is broadcasting mostly fear, wars, conflicts, terrorism, murders, accidents, disasters, earthquakes, pandemics and a whole variety of similar ways of brainwashing with one goal - for you to become indifferent and feel completely helpless. Do you know how pilots react during their murderous raids in which bombs and chemicals cause the massive war crimes, when they start to receive radio info about the results of their actions as a part of peacekeeping missions? Trying to escape from the cruel reality, these pilots turn off their radios. Is there an easier and a more common escape from the harsh reality than the escape into Facebook? In order to avoid mass protests on the streets, they gave us all cheap access to the virtual world - some kind of "Alice in Wonderland", so beat your worry on the joy and pleasure, don't worry be happy - because that's exactly what the global financial elite wanted - and they got it - we are all overloaded by the horror that is daily served to us through radio, television, press and online media; they turned off and almost completely cut off each link connecting us with the outside world.




If money is not backed by material basis and if money is created out of thin air, then why the governments don't create money to pay taxes instead of taking it away from citizens by force; why is too much money being created for 1% of humanity and too little for 99% of humanity? Why are governments allowed to issue debt instruments, but not allowed to issue its own money? If we do not know who the owner of the money is at the moment it is issued, then how can we possibly later know who is whose creditor, and who is whose debtor? Is it possible to repay debts if only the principal is being issued, and not the money needed to pay the interest as well? If We The People are those who produce everything that is on Earth necessary and unnecessary; if We The People are the owners of everything that we produce, then why We The People borrow our own money in the form of worthless slips of papers created out nothing from the private banks?


Tell me one thing, Culprit, did we enter into a community so called "state" in order to be its slaves or for the state to serve us? Tell me, Culprit, did we invent money in order to be its slaves, or in the common interest to have it benefit us all, both as individuals and as entire nations?



Although it patriotically proudly bears the name of the nation, the central bank is directly or indirectly in private ownership. Get one thing Culprit, the owners of the "national" banks are not we - you and I, all "national" central banks worldwide are controlled by only a few people. In the real world, you can't buy anything unless you offer an equivalent value back. You see Culprit, because of that, money has no material base, so that the narrow circle of people can issue it out of nothing in unlimited quantities; how would you otherwise buy the whole world and constantly bribe everything that needs to be corrupted? But this is not the end, it can be even worse Culprit ... It's not about the money, but rather about the control... Listen carefully my naive friend, the more you work and produce, the more evil you do onto yourself, and me, and the whole community because with that, my naive Culprit, you don't produce new values but rather a new debt. The central bank issues money only one way, lending it with interest. The result is such, my naive friend, that our own money is taken away from us the People of the World, without getting anything in return. 1 - you invested effort and working time; 2 - you created a product, 3 - it's not that you've only been robbed of the product; 4 - you've been robbed twice and have become indebted in the amount of the value of the product. At the same moment, the central bank takes from the community and indebts it for the exactly same amount. All the money in circulation is a debt, debt that can not be paid for two simple reasons: debt cannot possibly be paid off by debt; only the principal amount exists in the circulation - money for the payment of interest does not exist. To be able to pay interest on money that is issued as a debt, in this never-ending cyclus, one must always just create more and more new money. Since this newly made money is also created as a debt, even more new money must be created tomorrow in order to pay for the interest on it. In this insane system, the more we produce, the more we are indebted. The more indebted we are, the more and more of our rights and pleasures we give up. More debt requires more "money", but there is no more money without more and more work - because of that we produce a bunch of nonsense which is unnecessary for anyone, and the mountains of garbage that we leave behind us destroys the nature. To work more and more, and forgo more and more, is a process that has its mathematical and physical boundaries. And now, Culprit, we just got to that point!


The least challenging and most effective form of control over the human population is that which the population cannot see due to its ignorance. To whom and how could it ever occur to rebel against slavery when they think they are free? The key to this labyrinth without exits is the illusion of freedom of choice. Any control system which is intended to survive a longer period is hidden behind a false facade of free choice enabled through the right to vote. The right to vote is the official confirmation of a free society - every couple of years, the people can vote to choose their governments and because of this, automatically think that they are free. But in reality, the citizens were sold a lie that democracy means freedom so that a perception of freedom can be created behind which tyranny can freely operate. The same situation always takes place through a trap into which the population naively falls unaware of the fraud - the promise of "a change for the better" by new political candidates. My naive Culprit, there is nothing called the political left, right and center - these are games for children, just like the Tooth Fairy and the Santa Claus - you have no possibility of free choice, you have owners which own you. I am acknowledging to you, Culprit, that this silly world was not possible to build, and as such - the world of stupidity, can not exist without a mandate, and no other signature than yours stands on that mandate - you cannot ever again run away from that. If the private banks create money, not the state; a politics that relies on the promises which are more dependent on the goodwill of banks than you are on Facebook, can't be anything else other than a prostitute always hungry for money.




"The manufactured acceptation" is a propaganda model that is used by the corporate media in order to appear as public opinion. Is not a little weird to you, my friend, that in such a critical moment for all of humanity, there is no trace or voice of some sort of an organized mass protest movement? "Financing of disagreement" is directing funds from those who are the target of a protest movement against those involved in the organization of protest movements. The global financial elite, through an absolute control, not only buys political services, it also holds and oversees the financing of numerous NGO nongovernmental associations and civil society organizaitons in their hands. Global feudal lords were able to break mass movements into frivolous, non-hazardous few communities that are funded from the reason to act alone - all against all - you already know how that works - divide and conquer! Protest movements are supported and generously funded as a complete oppositition of the related mass movements - even though we are all fully aware where their money comes from, NGO leaders continue to assure us that they are independent and autonomous parts of the forces that by receiving the alms of their rulers will change for the better the Hell that their rulers created. Global thieves finance anti-thieves, what kind of an absurd and contradictory diabolic relationship is that. In such conditions, my dear naive friend, we cannot change anything to make it better, it can only get worse.



No more infatuation, my friend, after 30,000 years, even though it's the last one, the greatest illusion of all times has finally died as well, hope. Real change can be achieved only when we massively stop cooperating with a system that has enslaved us through a dictatorship that just aims to take our own enslavement to extreme measure. We will never experience real change if we still continue to believe that the only way to a better tomorrow is to thread deeper and deeper into the system in order to change it. We have been attempting that for 30.000 years and as you can see, we did not succeed. Real change will only come then when we get out from this Matrix system, it is the only choice, everything else is just a naive delusion.



We naively accepted this monetary system as if it were something unchangeable. Is it possible that we are not capable of something better?




You know, Culprit, the only possible reaction to self-destruction is right in front of your eyes - Stop Using Their Debt-Money!


You, who is troubled by unemployment, you tormented by hunger, by constant price increases, parking penalties, you who struggles with health services, public transportation, you tortured by both the local and the national government, you tortured by work hours and work conditions, you troubled by terrorism, you tortured by imperialism and colonialism, you tortured by anything - all of our problems stem from the monetary system whose money we use. Well, let's unite then and remove the cause of all our troubles and suffering, let's stop using their debt-money!



Fulfillment of the promise of a better tomorrow is 30.000 years late, and now, enough is enough. Time has come for us to forget about a better tomorrow and concentrate on a better today, to start creating it now, immediately, not a second later.

This post has been edited by rahizan: Feb 6 2011, 07:55 AM

Yo rahizan, when are you going to lead a revolution? start now, immediately, not a second later.

revolution wont change anything man.. what we need is a system that truly follow and correlate together with earth's mechanism, because its the one that supports us. either you like it or not it is a dictatorship, humanity have no choice, or we can try go against it like we're using monetary system, then what happened later is our 'civilization' risk of collapse and extinction very soon.

Why not? At least it restart better than keeping the dictator or you can start RBE ma.