That Id agree just like any strategic game be it board game or actual war, people get their strategies copied over and over again, and people improve on those strategies.

Thats why for games like Baduk in korea they have a degree for it.

BTW is beta comming back this Friday?

This post has been edited by fujkenasai: Jun 29 2010, 12:59 PM

Beta will be out 1st July. Lets wait n see if its true.

well eventhough both players are using the same BO, ur BO changes along the way as the game progress from wut ur opponent is doing etc...
not to mention it put more emphasize on micro...

Thats the thing strategy changes whats wrong with having your opponents coping your strategies?

From an audience's perspective, this is good as we'll get to see new things constantly like how player A gonna counter player B's strategy which was supposed to counter player A's earlier strategy.

However, from a player's perspective, this is a very irritating & frustrating aspect of having your BOs exposed in 1 or 2 games after you've spent weeks of sleepless night, squeezing your brain out for a new game-breaking BO. Imagine having 4 weeks of your hard work being copied by some opponents! Audience & fans might go ooh-ahhh for 1 or 2 games & that's it. 4 weeks of hardwork for 2 games' worth of cheering plus your BO being copied by your opponents... that's like rubbing salt into your wound!

But somethings you cant just copy like good micro and a good deceiver tricking your oponent and so on.

In pro-gaming, BOs can be a very big deciding factor. Look at Bisu when he came back from Thailand hibernation. Fuah... BW fans were proclaiming the return of P god (something like that) but it only lasts a few games once his so-called heavily-innovated BO was dissected to nothing.

In pro-gaming world, you can be pretty sure that almost everyone have more or less the same level of micro & macro as you so you gotta rely on something else to get yourself ahead. Micro-macro can be trained up & will remain with you all the time but a particular BO can only be used until someone is able to come up with a perfect counter.

What if some 1 is able to micro his speedlings so well that their death rate is only 10% or something god like? Wouldn't that attract huge attention?

Thanks to a function called replay

Replay kills pro-gamers.

I think I've been harping on pro-gaming too much today. As I've mentioned, replays are a good tool for analysis but at the same time, they punish creativity too... harshly.

and thats the nature of esports. dont like getting copied? be ahead of your opponent them. those who only copies are always a step behind to those who are making new BOs/strats.

then again, theres also micromanaging.

This sentence must be a joke. That's the 2 main criteria or characteristics that distinct great players from good players. They are also skills that take a life time to master.

If BO matters more than macro and micro then I guess the game will become obsolete very soon.

i agree and disagree at the same time on that bolded line. they may be at the same level, per say, however their play style may not be the same. 2 200-300 APM player may be considered on the same level, however one's playstyle may be constant kiting with ranged unit, while the other may be good at flanking with melees, its still 2 different thing/player/style/micro

APM can't reflect the effectiveness of micro. I still believe micro/macro matters more than BO

This post has been edited by Moonflown: Jun 29 2010, 07:41 PM

The infamous WhiteRA in an interview says that APM in SC2 does not need to be so high like crazy compared to SC: BW and also no need to be so young to have fast hand, WhiteRA is 30 years old.

Ouch, that's harsh!

I'm not sure if you've misunderstood but I did mention the scenario as in pro-gaming level. What good is excellent micro & macro if you've got your BO wrong or not ready to face his army onslaught? Timing, map-awareness, scouting. These are all important aspects as well.

What I'm trying to say is replay reveals BO & BO do play an important part in SC. Good micro & macro doesn't necessarily > good BO. The same goes the other way, of course but the most important information that can be obtained via replays are BOs.

Haha sry. I'm saying that since BO can be easily copied, pro level gamers should just keep on refining their micro/macro which are the least obvious in replay. And it's the small and noticeable stuff that polishes a BO more effectively than others.

A well micro-ed worker can screw a build order. It happened in day9 vs tasteless =D

I still think BO's are more important in SC2, since the individual unit ai has been improved so much where you just attack move and the melee units almost auto surround for you while range unit chase and fire.

This post has been edited by MYNAMEISJASON: Jun 29 2010, 08:32 PM

Any1 watched the Metal Slug remake using the SC2 map editor?

Agreed...

Read the Bold words...

That one is funny, though its unintentional but it shows how a well microed worker can screw up someone's BO.


After 1 and a half pages of BO I would love to try out her BO.










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