@byaku-chan - Please write more about guaranteed analysis. I think i know a decent amount about ingredients but have yet to find any good articles/books on the nutritional content so my knowledge is very basic.
Interesting about the Artemis, I don't really know anyone who has used it long term but that sounds like a major problem with the wet food.

@mikehwy - I would definitely still suggest go!, especially after byaku's experience with Artemis, the ingredients for the wet food and dry food are quite similar (the major difference is the wet food contains liver).
Hopefully byaku-chan can give you a nutritional analysis? as mine as i said would be very basic.
Also i wouldn't say feed your dog with cheaper food after 1.5-2years. Basically they are telling you to make sure your dog gets great food while they are a pup to make sure they grow properly and healthily. However if you can afford to keep feeding the same good food throughout their life, it is best as it will keep them healthy and happy. Dogs that eat high quality dog foods tend to shed less coat, smell better and are overall more healthy (just as a person who eats a better diet will look and feel healthier than someone who eats junk food all the time). I understand what the pet shop is saying, but i would always recommend feeding a dog of any age the best food you can.

@Yukaeshi - I'm assuming your vet asked you to avoid those meats to keep the your dog's fat content as low as possible (from what i know Malassezia is the mites on the skin, usually they are safe and all dogs have them but occasionally, for a number of different reasons, they will flare up and inhibit proper growth of skin causing itchiness and dandruff, outbreaks are usually started in areas of skin with high fat content). In which case you would probably be safest with fish based foods. byaku-chan suggested some for you to try, hopefully they will suit your dog.
As for the not eating, do you do 'tough love' when he decides not to eat (no treats, no snacks, no forcing or hand feeding, if he doesn't eat his meal after 15 minutes it is taken away again until next meal). If you have already tried this and it didn't work (most dogs will start eating within 3 or 4 days) then you are unlucky and have a really REALLY picky dog. Perhaps you can try mixing a bit of broth or wet food in with the normal meal to make it more appetizing. This way you can also change the flavor of the food without having to change the dry food you feed (most wet foods come in a variety of flavors).

@chienx - ok not the same food lol.
lamb meal (>20%), brown rice (>17%), rice flour, maize, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols)

The main problem i see immediately is 'maize' (which is just another name for corn). Also there is only one meat in the top 5 ingredients, that would put me off a little bit. Then much further down the list we see poultry cartilage, not something i would want to see included really. I wouldn't say it is a particularly bad food and if your puppy is used to it and doing fine then stick with it. If you decide you want to change foods, remember to slowly mix in the new food (especially with such a young pup).
Also just out of curiosity, how old was your pup when you brought him home?

(sorry if this isn't very helpful or readable this time, its been a long week lol.)

This post has been edited by Divas: May 31 2010, 08:29 PM

Hi all. Sorry i haven't been keeping up with this thread. Had extreme lack of internet recently .

From what i can see, everyone is doing well with food choices, please do start to analyse food on your own as that is the reason i spent so much time (really hours and hours) writing up the analysis' i have done so far, to help people learn how to see what is good/bad food for themselves. That way when you go into a pet shop/vet/whatever, you can instantly see what is good food for yoourself.

@Sherly- from the sound of it your dog has developed 'hot spots', this can be caused by a number of things. Food is one thing (but the foods you are feeding, it is unlikely). Hot spots can also be cause by allergies or contact with things that cause the skin to dry out. If you use strong cleaning products around the house (with bleach or a lot of chemicals in) see if changing this will help. Also a common cause of hot spots is bad shampoo (what shampoo do you currently use?).
Hopefully you can find the cause as 3 months old is quite young to develop hot spots already. If they get bad you can use a medicated wash (or ask your groomer to do it) to help clear them up while you find the cause. There are products and suppliments that can help keep skin issues in check (such as omega oils, primrose oil, colloidal silver treatments) however ifit turns out the problem is something simple like the shampoo you are using, it is much easier to remove the cause of the problem rather than try to counter act the symptoms.

As for treats, which i think was mentioned earlier. Giving some unhealthy treats can be a nice reward for your dog occasionally. There are also lots of "healthy" treats coming onto the market which aren't too bad. I like to give my dogs a mix of "healthy treats" and veggies for rewards and surprises. My favorite veg are Broccoli (an anti-carconagen), Carrot (not too much, tends to make soft poop), Celery and Sweet potato. Stay away from Mushrooms and Tomatos which can cause issues in large quantities.

Generally any mild or natural floor cleaner is fine (to play safe i always mop over a second time with just water). The best way i have found to take away pee or poo smells is to add some vinegar or lemon juice to my mop bucket. Using these clears the smell completely so your dog will not make a habit of peeing or pooing in the same spot (unless it is on a pee mat or newspaper etc).

It definitly sounds like hot spots, although the shampoo shouldn't have been the cause. Either way the Oatmeal should do her good. You can also use shampoos with aloe vera or tea tree oil (but make sure the tea tree oil is quite diluted as it can cause more damage to the skin in too high concentration).
If she has been scratching, this will cause some hair to loosen and drop (which is where the hair ball has come from), with just minor hot spots you won't see large bald patches unless she focuses all her itching/chewing attention on one area. Generally if it was tangles (or mats) it wouldn't fall off the coat so easily until you brushed as some of the coat in the tangle would still be attached to the body, keeping the rest of the tangle in the coat and not on the floor.

I have heard of the biscuits that make poo odorless, however personally i don't think i would use them. All poop from any animal is supposed to be smelly (of course if you feed a good food, or eat a balanced diet the smell will be minimal), so i would worry about what process is going on inside the intestines to stop it being so. Also i can't find any info on what it contains or how it works which puts me right off.
The best way (in my opinion) to stop having the pesky poop smell around the house is to feed a good quality food, train your dog to do his business in one (well ventilated) aera and clean up the poop as soon as you see it (which should be done anyway really).

Well done. You are a far better 'googler' than i am lol.
As a once a day treat, the ingredients don't look bad (although i wouldn't give my dog something with sugar and milk in). But i still have no idea how it works. Looks like a normal cookie to me (at least the first 5 ingredients is exactly how i would make human cookies).

In short, looks ok but no idea how it works, i assume it is the green tea that reduces odors but i couldn't say for sure.

Basically all varieties of Blackwood (with the exception of 7000, the catfish formula) contain very poor ingredients such as Poultry and Corn. If a food has second rate ingredients such as these, it is an indication of poor quality food. If you look through the thread I think there is a more complete look at Blackwood if you are interested.

It is true that the ancestors of dogs (wolves, jackals and wild dogs) are mostly carnivorous, but domestic dogs that we have today are very different from their ancestors.

Dogs do still need a largely meat based diet, however their digestive systems have changed over time (due to the types of food they have been fed over the generations of domestication, quite often table scraps, or 'human' food) to be able to digest and use nutrients from other sources (such as vegetables and grains) so they could be considered Omnivorous like humans. This is convenient for us as giving a dog (especially a larger breed) a diet consisting solely of meat and animal parts would be expensive, messy and time consuming.

You can feed your dog a grain free diet, however it will still contain a filler of some kind (most commonly potato/sweet potato) which is still not meat.
Also you will still need to feed your dog some kind of vegetable to ensure they get the proper balance of nutrition (wolves and such get the extra 'plant matter' by eating the contents of their prey's stomach. Even BARF (which many people feed because of the argument that ‘dogs are carnivores) is not a fully meat diet, usually containing a mix of vegetables and berries to provide a fully balanced diet.

Finally you need to consider the difference in lifestyle of our house pet dogs and their carnivorous ancestors. Generally a house dog will have a couple of short/medium walks a day and spend most of their time lounging, playing or sleeping whereas a wolves etc. will spend most of the day roaming and hunting for food, often having to defend their territory and travel multiple miles a day. Our house dogs get fed routinely at least once or twice a day whereas wild dogs will often ‘fast’ for as long as 2 weeks after binging on fresh raw meat in order to allow their digestive system to fully digest and recover from the meal. Therefore the protein and energy needs of our house dogs are far less than their wild cousins.

Of course, if you own a team of sled dogs and live in an area where it is easy for you to kill fresh, clean meat for them, I would strongly encourage you to feed a high protein kibble and supplement with raw meat due to their active and demanding lifestyle. However if you own a Chihuahua or Shih-Tzu that will spend most of his day sitting by your side, or trotting around the house with you at a slow and steady pace can you really say that this dog will need or even be capable of fully using a high protein diet?

Yes it is not natural for dogs to eat grains, however it is also not natural for humans to drink cow’s milk or use dairy products, (which is why many people are lactose intolerant to some degree) but we have grown to rely on them quite heavily as a source of calcium.

I do agree that a grain free diet could quite possibly be better for a lot of dogs than one with (even high quality) grains... however for most people it is financially not possible whereas finding a good quality food that contains some high quality grains is possible, and can still allow a dog to lead a long and very healthy life.

@CyaNide27- The website given by michael9413 (post #will give you a decent review, it is quite a famous and very useful, easy to understand site. Also if you look through the reviews of other foods given in this thread you should be able to determine if it is a good food or not for yourself. Perhaps you could try putting your own analysis of the food for other people to see. If you have any difficulties with certain ingredients try looking them up on Wikipedia, if you are still stuck you can post up and others can help with the analysis.
Also expensive brands are not always good (but cheap brands, unless very new are pretty much always bad). Always always look at the ingredients and nutritional content no matter what price the food is.

This post has been edited by Divas: Jun 11 2010, 04:54 PM

nice analysis michael9413. There is a lot of grain in the food (including dreaded corn).

@ genjo - you can always donate the food to a shelter, they always need extra dog food no matter what brand. Alternatively, buy a better food and mix the 2 together if you don't want to 'waste' the food. That way your dog still gets some good food and won't get used to the flavor of junk food too much.

@angel9362 - have you tried slowly switching the food over, giving more salmon and less chicken every meal time. If she still doesn't like it you can stick with the chicken and use a Fish oil suppliment (or Omega oils or Primrose oil) which will i\give you the benefit of fish without the trouble of switching foods.
Also i agree with jtl, go! is a very good food which has been getting great reviews from everyone i know who has tried it.

@jen_jen - why did the vet suggest a hypoallergenic diet for your dog? has he shown signs of food allergies?
Kagaroo meat is as good as any really. Dog foods are starting to use it now as they are running out of 'novel' protein sorces for dogs with hypersensitivity. I generally prefer to stay away from interesting meats unless my dog has some kind of protein related allergy or some other issue that requires them to have a novel protein sorce so that i have a range of options when reqired.

Most good foods are good for any breed so any of the foods suggested in this thread would most likely do well with your basset hound.

As for dogs being generally smelly, there are a number of things that can cause it. Food can be a contributing factor, if there is a very strong and distinct smell (although i can't really describe what it smells like, just that if you know what it is, you knwo when you smell it) then fungus is highly likely. Some other skin issues like abnormal production of natural oils can create some kind of odor.
One very common cause is that a dog isn't dried off properly after having a shower/getting wet. This creates warm damp areas (especially under the armpits, behind the ears and other similar places, which is ideal for things like bacteria to grow.

A good groomer or vet should be able to help you identify (or at least narrow down the possibilities) the cause of your dog's odor problem.

When was your dog last dewormed?
Do you give your dog tap water or filtered water to drink?
How many vaccinations has he had?
Are there any other symptoms (lethargy, lack of appitite)?
Has he chewed up anything like wood/cooked bones or swallowed anything else (coin, chemical, anything at all)?

I give all my dogs (and dogs who board with me) filtered water. I find that dogs show symptoms of having worms a lot more frequently when they drink tap water (meaning they get them from the water). Also i have seen a couple of dogs develope symptoms of urinary tract infection after drinking tap water for only a few days.

You can feed tap water and i'm sure it won't cause any major harm, but i find that filtered water does make a difference.

Difficult question, but does anyone know the supplier for TOTW? I'm looking for a new grain free offering for my customers (people over here find Now! a little pricy).

Also been lagging behind with posting due to preparing for my puppies' arrival so didn't get a chance to say thank you thank you thank you !! byaku-chan for posting up the stuff on Guaranteed analysis <3. Especially about where the protein comes from, been trying to find this info for quite a while. You are my hero

p.s- will probably thank you even more once i get through reading 'The Dog Food Project' site.

This post has been edited by Divas: Sep 13 2010, 01:49 PM

Canidae in my opinion is always worth buying (huge fan of Canidae over here). Don't remember the exact price, but pretty sure it is usually more than RM230 so you are getting a good deal there from what i remember.

If you read through this thread, i think you will find there has already been quite a bit said about science Plan (in fact looking back quickly, the first page has some stuff on science plan)

In my experience (from what my customers report, so from their experience, my data gathering... lol) the worm/maggot things usually only show up in decent/more natural dog foods. Which when you think about it, makes sense... the bugs go for less processed, more "real" food to lay their eggs to ensure their larvae get a good food source when they hatch rather than being left eating artificial flavor/preservative covered cardboard.
Sadly this is pretty troublesome for people who sell dog foods as it is much more likely that someone will complain about the worms if they have spent RM200 on a bag of food than if they spent >RM100.

Either way, don't panic too much, if there are only a couple of worms they don't actually do dogs harm (avoid it if you have a dog that is protein sensitive). You can usually just pick them out. However if you are still worried, a lot of suppliers are starting to replace bags where worms are found (some still won't but some will, mostly if there are a lot of worms, 1 or 2 sometimes they still won't) so you can ask the shop you bought it from to call the supplier.
Just one quick note, (it might sound strange but trust me), make sure it doesn't seem like you are blaming the shop owner for the worms, make it clear that you know they most likely came from the supplier warehouse. As shop owners it is very depressing to get blamed for something you have no control over and will make it less likely that they will call the supplier or anything (this is from personal experience, if you come into my shop and attack me, i will put up my defenses and attack back, if you explain the problem calmly then i will do everything i possibly can to sort out the problem).

First of all what breed is your dog?
Secondly i wouldn't worry too much. If he is still active and running around then he is eating enough. You would be surprised how little some dogs eat. I have one Toy Poodle boy (over 1year old) who eats around 20-30 kibble pieces a day. He has more energy than any of my other dogs and is the perfect weight.
Its a really bad idea to force or hand feed your dog as you will teach them that if they don't want to eat, they will get hand fed (think about it this way, would you rather feed yourself or be fed?). If you are worried that he isn't getting enough nutrition, pick up one of the supplement pastes (nutri-cal, nutri-gel, puppy paste etc.) and give him a pea sized blob every day (i do this for my toy dogs until they are 6-8months old anyway.
Also it is not advisable to mix traditional kibble with BARF style diets (Raw dehydrated is basically BARF). I would stick with one or the other.

All in all, just don't panic, he will eat when he needs to. Unless there is something majorly wrong (health wise) a dog will never starve itself given the choice.

I've never heard of this brand before, but have had a quick look at the ingredients and such (thanks mecharojak for getting the info). My first issue comes in at ingredient number 3 (Poultry Fat); I have a number of issues with this ingredient, starting with the Poultry, this is a multi-meat ingredient which means it can be a combination of chicken, turkey and duck in any ratio (making it an unstable ingredient). Secondly to have a 'fat' as a third ingredient is a bit high up for my liking. Finally, this is supposed to be a Lamb and Rice formula, although there are no rules governing it, in my opinion (due to the issues a lot of people/dogs seem to have with chicken) a Lamb and Rice formula should not contain chicken in any form. Apart from that none of the other ingredients are too bad i guess, not keen on beet-pulp or brewers-yeast though.

As far as nutritional values go, i'm not personally a fan of high protein contents (i stick around mid 20s, this food is 32%) but can't give you any conclusive evidence that shows it is bad. Will leave it as, it is unnecessary for a pet dog and is most likely just passing through unused.

Overall i wouldn't say it was a bad food, but i wouldn't say it is worth RM23 for 1kg. I would expect much much better ingredients for that kind of price.

---

Added on October 4, 2010, 10:03 pmsorry, didn't see this bit.

If you have a dog such as a poodle, shih-tzu, maltese or something else with a longer coat that can be clipped into a teddy bear clip, allow your groomer to create the illusion of "cute fatty puppy" with their coat. Making your dog overweight (even just a little bit) for your own aesthetical pleasure is slightly cruel and financially inadvisable (due to the health issues related with obesity in dogs).
A dog that is groomed to look 'pudgy' is always cuter than a dog that is well padded (as long as he is groomed well by a groomer who knows what they are doing.

You can feed your dog cooked food if you wish (although i would make sure he is eating enough kibble first, feeding 'human food' will often make picky dogs even more picky. I would always recommend cooking the food yourself however to ensure you know exactly what is in it and how it was prepared. If you are interested in cooking for your dog (either as a staple diet or as an occasional treat) i can pm you a list of things to avioud as well as a list of things that are actually good for dogs.

This post has been edited by Divas: Oct 4 2010, 10:03 PM

Anytime. I know it is tough. I panic about my kids as soon if they skip a meal... but you just have to learn to be strong and ignore it. Remember, sometimes you don't feel like eating one meal, there isn't really anything wrong, just not so hungry that day... dogs are the same. Sometimes they will fast for a meal or 2.

Cavaliers are very awesome dogs. But definitely don't make him chubby, they are very ugly overweight . A Cavalier won't be thin, they are quite stocky naturally so will still look cute if the right weight. Also as his fur grows out he will look fuller. One great trick (although it is too much for some people) is to let them stay in the AC a lot of the time... we actually went as far as to install an extra AC downstairs to keep my Goldens' coats full. They are still fine when they go for their walks (early morning and early evening) and look fantastic.

Nope sorry. I'm feeding Canidae. Thinking about bringing in stock for ToTW and then i'll probably do a trial on it with one of my sensitive kids to see how things go. I would feel safe recommending it though, i have only heard positive things about it.

Don't worry, you will get there. It just takes time. When reading labels the basic stuff is pretty simple to remember but when you get down to the details, there are a lot of things to think about so keep at it, you will get there .
I follow ALS formulas so aren't so familiar with a lot of the puppy formula's. I supplement with a nutritional supplement (nutri-cal and all that) when i feel it is necessary instead of using puppy formula.
When you have some free time just pop down to your pet shop and start reading ingredients. You will be able to get a pretty good idea of which are good foods from there.

Not so sure sorry.
Canidae is quite hard to find. It is imported by House of Groomers so quite often it is only their graduates that carry it. I have seen it in places like Pets Wonderland and Pet safari but not all the time.
For small bags the RRP is RM50 for ALS and RM55 for Lamb and Rice (from what i remember). I don't remember the price for big bags right now but i can let you know tomorrow when i'm at the shop .

You could try calling HOG to see if there is a shop close to you that carries it.
Alternatively try Nutri-Source. We have just brought this brand into our shop and it seems to be very promising. The supplier does give a lot of samples to shops who carry it so you can always pick one up if they have any left. I have seen some shops who try to sell them (for like Rm1) but they get them for free from the supplier and are supposed to be handed out for free so don't let them charge you for it .

Nutri-Source has 2 ranges, a normal one and a 'holistic' one (Pure Vita). They are both pretty decently priced and have good ingredients, so it is an option and should be easier to find than Canidae. Of course the Pure Vita is quite a bit better than the normal range (just called Nutri-Source) but it is also a little more expensive.


In other exciting news. I just found out the other day that the Canidae grain free variety has just arrived. It is salmon based and i will be doing some trials with it as soon as our stock arrives. I will be mixing it with my usual Lamb and Rice as i don't like the idea of such a high protein formula as the sole kibble, but i'm hoping it will help better manage a couple of skin problem furkids I have.

Hi. Firstly congratulations on your pup .

On to your questions:

1. It is best (especially today with so many new foods being available all of a sudden) to familiarize yourself with what makes a good food and decide for yourself. All the basics are in this thread so with a bit of reading you will get the idea. Concentrate mostly on the top 5 ingredients and nutritional analysis. There are a lot of decent suggestions in this thread as well so you can start with them if you are unsure .

2. If you are following separate life stages it is generally suggested to switch to adult food at 1year old. Some people suggest sticking to puppy food until 2 years old for large breeds as they can continue to grow up to 2 years old.
Rapid growth (but more weight gain) can contribute to hip and joint problems in the future. Generally as long as you keep your dog slender (not thin, you shouldn't easily see the ribs or pelvic bone through the skin). A good precaution with a large breed is to supplement with Glucosamine and Chondroitin (there are dog specific versions or you can use the human supplement, just check the dosage).
You can switch to an all life stage formula anytime you want.

3. I personally don't bother with breed specific foods (the most common one is Royal Canin) because i feel it is more of a marketing ploy than anything else (this is just my opinion based on the ingredients listed in the different varieties). If you want to use breed specific you can, Royal Canin is the only brand i know who does it.

4. For treats you need to find what you and your dog are comfortable with. There are quite a few 'healthy' treats around at the moment which are very decent. I would also strongly recommend getting some rawhide chews which are great for cleaning teeth and redirecting destructive chewing (you can get high rawhide chews for large breeds), alternatively if you prefer, you can use real bone. If you choose to use bone remember 2 very important rules; NEVER use chicken bones and NEVER feed cooked bone. The bones must be raw to prevent them shattering and causing intestinal damage.

My best advice is to choose for yourself when it comes to food. There are so many different diet types (BARF, Home cooked, kibble) and so many different variations of each and pros/cons of each that no one can tell you which food will suit you and your dog the best. Look through the options and decide what you feel suits. Then watch your dog's reaction to each (their physical reaction) such as their skin health, coat quality and stool to see how it goes from there.

Sorry to disagree slightly, but i feel it is important to think for yourself a little and not simply go by what 'dog food analysis' has to say. At the moment, that site is very pro-grain-free so all their highest rated foods are grain free. I'm not debating that grains are not ideal for dogs, however grain free foods (as has been mentioned quite often in this thread) are very high in protein and i have seen a number of dogs starting to develop hot spots when switching to grain free high protein diets.
dogfoodanalysis.com is a great resource to get an idea of what range of foods are avaliable, but when selecting a brand for your dog you also need to understand a little yourself and choose a food that you think suits your dog.

Also I know some review sites do speak negatively of meat 'meal' ingredients, but actually there is a lot of debate about this. I don't remember the exact reason why it is frowned upon by some people but i do know that i disagree. Named meat 'meal' simply means that the water has been taken out before the meat was added to the food, making the amount of actual meat (rather than water) much higher. If you have turkey meal as a first ingredient for example, there is a lot more turkey meat than if the ingredient was simply 'turkey' or 'fresh turkey'. A lot of good foods use named meat 'meals'.

Finally, it is normally only necessary to look at the top 5 ingredients as these will make up the majority of the food. Again, as far as grain is concerned, it depends on personal opinion as to whether grain free or 'acceptable' grains (rice, barley etc) is best for you and your dog. I know 'grain free' is the latest trendy food and there are a lot of new brands with expensive price tags and fancy packages (plus they taste so much better...) but sometimes it is best to stick to something tried and tested than jump on the newest band wagon (i'm not saying grain free is bad, just not suitable for every dog and not necessarily better than some of the other high quality kibbles).