You suggested to feed wet food to a dog that wasn't eating in a previous post... This is bad advice.

This is a retarded argument that many people who don't know what they are talking about fall back on.
Yes we ALL know SOMEONE who feeds their dog junk and yet the dog lives healthily to a decent age. Just like we ALL know Alcoholics and Smokers who live healthily to a decent age (which is lit_ching's point in case you were having problems creating the very simple link). HOWEVER just because i know one or 2 people who drink and smoke/feed their dog crap, with little or no negative consequences doesn't mean i will do the same.

For every 1 example you can give me of a case where "someone you know has a dog who can deal with eating crap" i can give you at least 5 of where that has had severe health consequences early on in the dogs life.

So you know ONE dog who "only eats bones" although i assume you mean chicken and rice with the bones still in, who hasn't had a major intestinal injury from it... I personally know 5 dogs who have had emergency surgery to remove chicken bone shards lodged in their throat/intestinal tract, one never recovered due to extreme blood loss.

And you know ONE dog who is 3 years old... congratulations. The average life span of a German Shepard (or most dogs really) is 10-15 years so your "friends dog" isn't even a third of the way through his life, he better be healthy no matter what he is eating!
However I know at least 10 dogs who showed signs of kidney failure, malnutrition as well as a number of age related conditions before they even hit midlife (usually these conditions, except malnutrition which should never occur, will not be seen until late stages of middle age to old age in dogs). I have also seen many many cases of constantly lethargic dogs with 'dead' eyes and dull coats spring to life after switching away from Pedigree. On top of this, i have seen the anal gland discharge of a dog eating Pedigree.... nothing coming out of a dog should look like tar and smell like rotting fish mixed with decomposing trash.

So you might think you are very clever, but to write such nonsense on a thread which people come to for GOOD advice on nutrition to ensure their give their dog the best possible chance at a healthy and happy life is nothing short of selfish and attention seeking. How would you feel if upon reading this thread and coming across your post here, someone decided to feed their dog chicken bones, then their dog got an obstruction or torn intestinal lining and didn't make it through the surgery?
When you give advice, prepare to be responsible for what happens when people follow it.

p.s- @Reanne - I totally agree that when done well BARF can be better and cheaper than kibble, i just wish there was more information more easily available to the common person about dog nutrition and nutritional needs. I have been pondering over testing BARF on my Papillon girl who has been plagued with nasty mite related skin issues for a long time but am yet to feel like i know enough to comfortably say i could balance her meals well enough .

This post has been edited by Divas: Feb 13 2011, 08:39 PM

I wrote out a long reply, then my computer crashed.
So will leave it at this:
I disagree with what you say. There is never an excuse to feed pedigree and i don't care how many dogs you "know" who lived healthily while eating it. The reason we keep telling you about cigarettes and alcohol is not because we are saying just drink or smoke: The reason is, feeding a dog pedigree has health risks, not all dogs will react but the risk is there, just like smoking or drinking (especially a lot) has health risks, not everyone gets lung cancer and kidney failure, but would you smoke 40cigs a day and down a bottle of JD for breakfast if i told you my uncle did so and lived to be 90 before being hit by a truck? This is why your argument about "my neighbour/brother/cousin/friend's dog who ate _____ their whole life and were really healthy" is not a good argument (hence my "retarded argument" comment).

Also a breeder should feed very good quality kibble, if you can't afford to do that.. don't breed, simple. Breeding is not a money making endeavor when done correctly. Breeding for profit is the main reason so many dogs in Malaysia have bad skin problems and such.

I don't really want to carry on with this as the thread is for people who want help giving their dog the best nutrition they can... There are foods out there that are a million times better than pedigree at a pretty similar price. Alternatively i suggest to people on a tighter budget to mix a decent kibble with rice to make it more economical (which is more nutritious than feeding pedigree).

Thanks for the idea. Hopefully i have time to check it out sometime soon and get some more info.

As far as Trixie's mites go, i'm talking skin mites, not ticks and fleas. I have very few problems with ticks (i use prevention and also check everyone over a few times a week and pick off any i find, we also bomb the house with Bayticol every month or so). She has stress induced flare ups of demodex mites which for her seems to be very difficult to manage which is why i am at the stage of BARFing her (a lot of people claim that BARF has got the mites under control). We'll see anyway.
I have heard of others suggesting garlic (or garlic powder) to deter mites. Never tried it myself but the theory is sound i suppose. I would just advise anyone trying it to give very very little garlic to begin with and then very slowly increase the amount and keep a close eye out for a negative reaction. Large doses of garlic (especially over a long period of time) can cause a reaction in the blood resulting in a form of anemia, however in small doses it is known to prevent fleas/ticks/intestinal parasites as well as have a whole host of other positive effects... In my opinion, as long as you go slow and keep a close eye out, garlic can do a lot of good.

@Gilthoniel - You're welcome anytime of course. Maybe pop in next time Hazel's skin flairs up again so we can see.

@debieyss - Grain free diets are the latest "trend" in the dog food world. There is some truth to the whole "grains are unnatural for dogs" debate, however there is also a lot of evidence suggesting that dogs can gain nutrients from good quality grains. There are both positive and negative sides to grain free foods. I personally (as i have mentioned before) don't like such a high protein content (which comes with all grain free foods currently) for normal pet dogs, however i can understand the benefits that could come from no grains. Also most of the grain free foods have really really great natural ingredients (that appear to be) from top quality sources which also makes them great and healthy choices.
As with choosing to use BARF, Home cook, Kibble or wet food, i think the decision to go grain free is all down to personal choice and belief at the moment. Try a few things, see what you (and of course your dog) are happy with and then go with that. Of course any observations you make about specific brands or styles of food would be greatly appreciated on here as it will help us all find the best choices for our dogs .

Depending on your pom's overall health condition i would be wary of switching brands. 10years isn't old, but is old enough to be slightly cautious about changing things up.
However so as long as you change really slowly introducing the new food over a number of weeks, it is very unlikely that there will be any problems.

I would definitely agree with you on staying away from Orijen and other high protein foods at his age. Don't worry about Glucosamine too much, if the food you settle on happens to have it then great, if not never mind. In my experience, foods contain such a small amount of Glucosamine that it won't have much of an effect even if it is there (you can always suppliment with Glucosamine and Chondroitin if you are concerned about his joints).

You seem to be on the right track as far as choosing good foods (i'm not particularly a fan of California Naturals and don't have any experience with Fish4Dogs but they are both good foods in theory), so whatever you decide, that is available conveniently, will probably do fine.

Never heard of probest before, also can't find it online. I would assume it would say somewhere on the pack...

Perhaps you could list out the ingredients and nutritional analysis (at least just the protein, fat and moisture) and we could see what kind of food it is.

Any puppy will want to chew things firstly because they explore the world with their mouth so chewing is part of how they discover new things and secondly because they are teething (so as with human babies, their gums are sore and chewing relieves the pain).

There are many different types of 'chew toys' you can give a puppy or dog to satisfy their teething needs: Rawhide is made from animal skin, is generally very cheap (depending on what animal it is and where it is made) and will break down and be eaten after some time of being chewed. You want to go for the solid pieces of rawhide, not the ones made from small pieces of rawhide pushed together. Similarly there are 'Hooves' which are purely the hard outer nail of hooved animals feet (such as cows or pigs), hooves are stronger and longer lasting than rawhide but not suitable for larger dogs that can crack the hoof and swallow the sharp shards potentially causing damage to the intestinal tract).


Next up is 'Nylon bones' which are a plastic alternative to rawhides. Some people like Nylon bones for their durability however i find that a persistent chewer can quite quickly pick holes in the bone and swallow small pieces of the plastic. If you decide Nylon bones are for you, make sure you choose a reputable brand and keep an eye on the bone for wear and tear, removing it from your dogs toy boy the first time you see signs of damage (even if your dog doesn't swallow bits of plastic, the dents and grooves that form in a Nylon bone over time
can harbor nasty bacteria.

Finally is rubber based toys such as the very famous Kong brand. If you don't mind investing a little money, a correctly sized Kong will last an average chewer a lifetime. Kongs are also a great investment as they can be used as a training tool, a treat, a chew toy, an interactive toy or something to entertain your dog while you are out.


Remember that as well as offering a range of chewing options, it is also important to train your puppy not to chew things that they aren't supposed to chew. Most puppies will regularly need a gentle reminder that things like hands, table legs and books are not for chewing but chew toys are.

Switching from a low quality food like ProPlan to a high protein grain free food like Acana is a huge leap for a dogs digestive system. If you were eating a diet of McDonalds and KFC for a significant amount of time and then switched to an organic vegetable and free range meat based diet, you would have an extreme reaction. This is especially true if you didn't do the recommended procedure for switching foods where you slowly phase out the old while introducing the new.

You will also find that the stool of a dog on a grain free food (such as Acana) will often be slightly softer than when they were on a non-grain free diet due to them simply not using all the nutrients packed into the food and it coming out the other end.

Generally if you just stop one food and start a new one (especially such different foods) you will find that it takes at least a week for the stool to harden up again. Unless there is a majorly bad reaction (such as bad hot spots, itching or other severe reaction) it will usually take between 2-6months of a new food to see the final results.

Generally the same rules for adults also apply for puppies. Some foods separate puppy formula and adult formula but often there is very little difference between the 2 and the puppy one will be priced higher (to take advantage of the fact that people will be more willing to spend more on their new puppy than am older dog that has been with them for sometime).

One thing to consider for chows specifically is to make sure you keep his/her weight on the lighter side of normal. Chows can be prone to becoming overweight quite easily, this is bad for their hips and lungs which can be put under stress by having to support an overly large body weight.
Chows in Malaysia also seem to be quite prone to skin issues such as hot spots so try to avoid high protein foods.

Also as a side note.l: Please make sure your Chow is well trained, although they are quite medium in size, due to the structure of their body and head they can be extremely powerful dogs with a crushing bite. While I advocate and advise proper training for any breed or size, when there is a dog that can easily do major damage to another animal or human it is vital that they are taught manners at a young age to prevent any accidents.

Take the HappyDog back to the shop if you haven't opened it already. It's like they took the formula for a good food and then added 5 crappy ingredients on top.of it. If you scratch off the first 5, it actually would be an OK good.... Buuutttt considering the first 5 ingredients it's basically a bag of flour.

Ingredients wise Eagle pack is a decent food that has been around for a long time. It does go through phases of being hard to find or unavaliable which makes me shy away from it (although I seem to remember they have changed the importer a couple of years ago and it has been more stable since then). Also price wise it is in a very precarious band at the very top of 'non-grain free foods' where you might actually save money in the long run by topping up a little more and going grain free (as a dog should eat less grain free food than they do the lower protein foods) or buying 2 brands and mixing (so take a bag of Eagle Pack and mix with a bag of something like Merrick grain free).
You could also consider something like NutriSource Lamb and Rice which is priced between HappyDog and Eagle Pack but has a similar makeup to EaglePack (I have been feeding NutrSource to boarding dogs/some of my own dogs for at least 3 years now and have found nothing that comes even close as far as quality for the money you pay).

Depending on what kind of urinary problem, how severe and how prolonged, Prescription diet may actually be the best choice (as much as it pains me to say it).

If this is the first time your dog is having urinary tract issues (or it is a rare occurance like no more than once or twice a year) and it's minor bladder stones (can be caused by excessive salt in dog foods) or a urinary tract infection, I would avoid switching to a prescription diet. Go with a lower protein food such as Canine Caviar (You could use the special needs formula for a month or 2 before switching to the lamb and rice for more long term use) and use Apple cider vinegar and cranberry juice (separately, not together) to clear up the urinary infection (I'm assuming it's a urinary tract infection, not bladder stones).
If on the other hand, your dog is older (10 and above) and the urinary problems are continual or frequently recurring (like at least once a month), the urinary health formula of either Hills or Royal Canin may be the best choice of food to prolong a higher quality of life for your dog (but I would still try other things first).
(I hope this helps and isnt too late for you)

Why do you want to switch foods? The answer to that will determine if either formula suits you better or (which is more often the case) it doesnt matter which you choose.
Saying that, unless a puppy is on a really crappy food, its not so advisable to switch foods for a puppy under 5-6 months old. For a large breed (like you have) its not such a big concern but still if there is no specific need i would delay for a couple of months as Fish4 isnt a particularly bad food.