Guys,


I had ordered DIY kit for eD A7s-650 subwoofer. Estimated another 2 weeks to receive the item. Total weight for the whole subwoofer should be around 200lbs.

Anyway, I need help to source for Titebond II wood glue. Kind of hard to get in Penang. I asked my friend to look in Ace Hardware Puchong but he only manage to find the Titebond I.

Below is the wood glue I need for the project.
http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Internation...72870101&sr=8-2

I'm still deciding either to just paint the subwoofer with wood paint or laminate.

The DIY kit is NOT for you if:
1. You must have your sub now!
2. You choose barbie doll over bob the builder when you are small.
3. You always hammer your finger.
4. You never fix any IKEA furniture in your life.

eD Sub comparison. Please note that this is not the max SPL level.



Update 18/6
DIY kits arrive in Penang waiting for custom clearance. Wood glue received from Amazon. Hopefully I can build the sub next week.

Update 21/6
All 5 items arrived. The sub drivers are huge and heavy. Total are around 85kg. Each sub driver is around 20kg++.




Update 22/6
Fixing up the frame for measurement. Side panels are bend a bit. Will measure and drill some pilot hole at the joint to straighten the panel.



Update 23/6
Gluing and clamping with F-Clamp. I only got 4 and should get 2 more to speed up the process.



Update 25/6
Turn out eD forget to ship the rubber feet with the kit. Alex from eD promise to send out today. So far communication with eD is pretty good. The bracing is done.

Update 26/6
Almost there. Looks like I need more screw to pull the panel straight.



Update 27/6
Final panel is in. Tonight will need to drill some pilot hole for speaker and plate amp. Then sanding the edge and off it go for spraying.



Update 30/6
Send to auto spray shop for putty fill up, sanding and spraying. Total cost around RM 350 and take around 5 days as it is labour intensive. I'm expecting a mirror finish.

Update 7/7
Spraying done. Now waiting for the rubber feet before installing the drivers and amp.




Update 15/7
Build Completed. Will test out the sub tomorrow. I need to re-organize my theater room for new speaker JTR Triple8HT for LCR.






JTR Triple 8


Beauty and the Beast



Completed HT room. Can't see the eD A7s-650 sub as it is hidden behind the false wall.


First Impression on Sub
Definitely a step up compare to Velo DD-12. The punch is better, stronger and yet there is a sense of better control. You don't feel the bass overhang in the room. One quick test is where Joker crash the party and batman is punching all the thug, you can feel the force of a solid punch. DD-12 is a bit mushy with less impact.

Kung Fu Panda skidoosh scene. I can feel the wave in stages when the energy is release which give much stronger bass sensation.

I can summarize that the bass feel very control and start and stop faster. Will do a REW graph this few days and try to integrate the DD-12 to smooth out the freq response. If I can't manually dial in the settings, might consider getting a SVS EQ1.

First Impression on JTR T8
The first feeling is it feel diff than B&W 603. When there is a scene of people chattering with background music, you can feel that you are among the crowd and music is playing in a diff layer. I think it should be the separation that work out this feeling. I'll need some more listening before giving a detail review.

REW graph for eD-A7s650 in my HT room.






Max SPL before sub bottoming out.


Estimated curve that can be achieved using FBQ2496 with REW. Note that it need 10 points correction to get it as flat as possible.


Another graph after recalibrate the sub level with 1/3 octave smoothing.



JTR T8 speaker updated impression after adding EQ
Before the EQ, I feel that the vocal is not that good compare to my bookshelf M&D speaker. Turn out after using REW for measurement, there is a problem within 300hz to 1khz where there is a huge dip initially than a boost near 1khz. That's almost 15db difference within 300hz to 1khz.

Since I got the FBQ2496 for sub eq which can be use to EQ the main speaker, I give it a try. FBQ2496 had 20 filters that can correct within the range of 20hz to 20khz. I only tune in 80hz to 10khz for the main speaker as I don't think the Galaxy CM-140 is accurate above 10khz. In fact the specs only mention it is accurate from 30hz to 7khz +/- 1.5db.

Turn out after the EQ, the vocal is sweet and believable. Watching movie, there is a sense of in there. Attached is the graph with 1/6 smoothing of before and after EQ. Going to get a second unit FBQ2496 for center channel and sub EQ.




This post has been edited by pierreye: Jul 29 2010, 01:01 AM

I'll be at Ikano tomorrow. Will go to Ace and look it for you.

Thanks bro. If you manage to find the item, can you help to buy first?

Not a prob since it probably won't cost an arm and a leg PM me your no. Once I get it, I'll let you know.

if you don't mind me asking, how much if the total cost for the DIY kit? any links? as i searched ebay and didn't find any eD A7 nor eD A7s
and how much did you paid for shipping?

kindda interested in building a sub myself

Get direct from elemental design. Total including shipping is USD 1725. Not including local ketam tax.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.p...products_id=849

It would be great if u could show us ur build progress and how you do it during your build

Yeah. would love to see u building it. Please

paskal...not enough firepower to bring the house down?

For you, you should get this model:

this project very interesting to see.

i'm also thinking to start my own speaker project but...

But what?

I'll update this thread once I get all the items. Anyway, this is just a semi DIY stuff as the cabinet, drivers and amp plate had been given. Not unlike some DIY project where you need to built the cabinet from scratch. More like fixing up Ikea furniture.

Speakers is more difficult due to crossover design unless there is ready kit with speakers matching and ready crossover.

This post has been edited by pierreye: May 4 2010, 10:06 AM

looking for a sealed sub bro as i kindda hate the boomy bass that my ported sub currently produce.
already have a working sub amp, looking for a long throw driver unit.

eD sells driver only if you want to DIY the cabinet. Maybe built a twin 18" sealed sub like their eD A7s-900. This is a monster. Twin 13" is only slightly better than single 18" (based on total surface).

Watch out DD12, u got new big brother coming to bully u! Poor DD12

DD12 might become a sidekick for A650. Help to smooth out the dip in the room.

as i thought.. elemental designs are marketing the same sub for both car sub and room sub.
the drivers used in the A7s - 650 are the 13Av.2, which is marketed as a car subwoofer.

guess a long throw car subwoofer does make a viable choice for room sub after all. easier to source locally, and i reckon a cheaper alternative for initial test builds.
will start looking into it after i finish my current project.

hence the name DD12 (DD = didi = lil brother in mandarin) ..... lil bro sure kena bullied by bigger bro

AS-EQ1 question. As EQ1 had 2 input/2 output, can I use 1 input and 2 output? Also, does EQ1 adjust both sub differently or as 1 sub? Time delay and EQ will be adjusted differently for both sub?

This post has been edited by pierreye: May 4 2010, 11:49 AM

You can use 1 input and 2 output for your subs.

EQ1 will adjust both sub differently. Sweep tones will be emitted to each sub for each location for a maximum of 32 positions. You will be amazed of its capability. I think anfieldude will be happy to show it to you.

Yeah. I think he is eager to show me what EQ1 can do. I'll do a installation of 1 sub first and check out my room response. If I go twin sub, I think EQ1 would be a good option.

I'll go to Ikano now and check.

EQ1 is a good solution for those looking for multiple subs. But lets be fair, sealed sub are actually a little easier to equalize if u get the position correctly. Also they blend in better with the mains and is more difficult to localize.

However, I am actually a happy camper with the AS-EQ1. Its response is tighter and more accurate.

A word of warning, though, the velo in ur room is pretty darned good. It will take one heck of a sub with higher output and lower frequency capability to top that.

Btw, pls do let me know once the date for the shootout is being confirmed.

Pierreye, I will go to Home Fix on Thurs afternoon to look for it.

Spec wise I believe Velo DD-12 is 18hz to 120hz +-3db. SPL should be around 110db max. Advantage for Digital Drive series is the Servo feedback (adjustable) and built in EQ (something similar to SMS-1). A7s-650 measurement is 16hz to 100hz +-3db and able to exceed 115db. eD definitely will be better in terms of pure SPL and low extension. Not sure if it would be as musical as Velo sub without the servo feedback.

Bro Pierreye, if studios start adopting 25Hz filter for future releases, we can ditch all our subs for a normal subwoofer that can produce usable output at 25Hz is more than enough.

I had wrote an e-mail to Fox Video about my disappointment on the 25Hz filter in Avatar as well as to Warner Bro (since it acquired New Line) for LOTR. I did a brief test on ROTK when they are being ambushed by those mammoths. My DVD ver (DTS ES6.1) has better LFE than the BD I will do more comparison.

can't wait to hear your comparison for a DIY (even when it's semi DIY it's still DIY in my book) sub against a commercial sub.

if only we can get O-Audio BASH 500w Plate Amps locally.. >:)

there are other variant of sub amps that have enough power to drive a sub whom parts are available locally.

Thanks to htkaki helping me to source for titebond II but too bad it is not available in Malaysia. I just ordered from Amazon and hopefully can arrive together with the subwoofer kit.

Bro, so sorry that I could not find it for you. Ace and Home Fix do not have it. Instead of TiteBond, they recommend TitanBond Mostly Bostwik or Selley products.

More ciplak goods here. Watch out for China SWS subwoofer

Btw, the new sealed subs; SB series will be launched soon. More info by today or tomorrow.

There will be 5 models; SB10-NSD, SB12-NSD, SB12-Plus, SB13-Plus and the flagship SB16-Ultra with better technology in its driver.

pierreye, actually the locally available wood glue will do the trick. I built a few small speakers with it, with good clamp, you will get good solid attachment too.

Do the sub package you get comes with screws as well ?

One of the way to make sure its tight fitting is to use silicone seal inside the sub cabinet on all joints. Its a sure tight fit.

I just don't want to take any risk with local glue as I'm not sure which one is good quality. Also some glue will grow weak with moisture. I'm going to use braid gun to nail the panel instead of screw.

Imagine the cabinet being blown wide upon while testing a bass intense scene if the glue being the Achilles' heel ......

Btw, OT a bit.... I am planning to build a PB12-Plus by using the acrylic panel just to show fellow visitors during KLIAV show. It might not resemble the original look but probably close to it. I had a friend that could help me out on that but have to check on the cost to cut and build such cabinet.

That would be cool. An 'inside look' at SVS

does an AS-EQ1 help tune just 1 sub? do u have to keep the sub plugged into EQ1 for it to be continually eq'ed or it can be tuned once then that's it?? i wonder if u can help tune my sunfire....

It's a 'piggyback device'. EQ1 needs to be switched on during movie playback as all the necessary data / calculation are being stored in it.

mmm..... meaning my sub cannot be eq?

The equalization is done in the AS-EQ1. So u need to permanently put it in ur system.

What is the problem with ur sunfire?

bro, AFAIK, acrylic really not that strong... for sure you cannot blast the sub like normal...

Just as display and to let customers to take a peek

This post has been edited by htkaki: May 7 2010, 04:44 PM

There is 2 types in the market. First is a simple EQ system with only a single point adjustment. You still need REW to map out the problem in your room. EQ1 would be a more advance product as it not only tackle the EQ but also looking into the time domain plus multi point filter. If there is a null in your sitting position, no EQ can help you but to shift your sub around or add in a second sub.

This post has been edited by pierreye: May 7 2010, 05:15 PM

What, even a subwoofer can be DIY'ed? I am so outdated

Most of the US ID sub co started out as DIYers.

no problem but just feel that i haven't tune it to its best performance. i'm still quite new to all these things

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Added on May 8, 2010, 12:39 amall these are too Greek for me. i don't mind if u can drop by my place and help me tune the sub since we're in penang... hehe

This post has been edited by asherteoh: May 8 2010, 12:39 AM

Anfieldude can do the tuning on tv and sub at a modest fee. Without an EQ, what he can do is just bass crawl to find the best position of the sub depends on your placement flexibility.

if that's the case then i'll do the sub crawl myself.. but can u give me a few tips on how to solve the current things i'm observing? my current sub placement is at a corner with roughly 3-4 inches from either wall.

- bass sounds a little boomy with certain music
- certain furniture rattles
- windows rattle

can placing a subdude help?

I never use any subdude but you can give it a try. The easiest way to do a sub crawl is to put your sub at the seating position and walk around using your SPL meter. This will show you where are the null and peak. Boomy issue most likely due to certain freq decay issue which can be treated by bass trap or EQ. REW will show you the actual issue in your current setup.

This post has been edited by pierreye: May 10 2010, 10:22 AM

i strongly recommend newbies to pay some1 to do a proper calibration for both audio n video .. without calibration is like buying a sports car without tuning .. if u r interested and planning to buy your own calibration tools then that is a diff story, but if u bought the whole set of av n think u can tune with your own eyes n ears alone then it is very likely u wont get the best out of what u bought

Well said. I don't understand some people would rather put in big $$$ in the display then don't want to pay extra few hundred to get it tuned. Do remember out from the factory it is impossible to get a perfectly tune display out due to component to component variance. Most of the display coming out from factory is too cool in color temp and color is over saturated. It might get your attention at first glance when comparing display side by side but after a while you will start noticing that skin tone is either too green or too red etc...

We are lucky having anfieldude willing to provide the service at minimum cost (and I joke with him he is charging too low, as US calibrator is charging USD 300 per display max 2 input). I had to invest few thousand to get the equipment + many hours of studying in tuning. On top of that, different display had different menu/service menu secret key and tuner will need to look up the info first before performing the service. If I know anfieldude is providing the service few years back, I think I'll get him to do the tuning and call it a day.

Even audio setup is an art as you need to know how to to position the speaker, toe in angle, subwoofer crossover and phase (and I bet a lot of people with sub doesn't know what is the purpose of phase adjustment and how to set it correctly). EQ and room treatment is another topic which get more complicated.

This post has been edited by pierreye: May 10 2010, 11:16 AM

For me i will spend on the modest calibration fee and room treatment (if needed) 1st, instead of spending my money on those crazy priced hdmi..

lol.....

Bro, not easy to convince one to invest in room treatment and seek professional help in calibration.

There are some ppl contacting me to help on audio calibration on their HT sys (aint my cust). When I told them that I charge few hundreds depending on complexity of the HT sys, they and replied,"Wah. Why so expensive. Tuning audio only. Not RM20-RM50 kah?" But there are some who do appreciated good PQ and AQ and do not mind forking $$$ to get the best from their system and room.

RM 50??? Wah, chap lap liao. Petrol and time already cost more than RM 50. If I do professional tuning as living, min RM 180/hr.

Yeah, its interesting how different people react differently to calibration, be it audio or video. I've sometimes asked myself the same question, how one could spend sometimes almost RM20-30k on a home theater and yet, when it comes to a few hundred ringgit to get the home theater equipment to optimal conditions they hesitate. But I guess people are just like that.

Calibration takes time. Also the person doing calibration has normally invested $$ on equipment, but more so invested his/her time in learning the ropes of calibration.

But I guess not all are like that. Most of the people I have had the pleasure of meeting to calibrate their systems, genuinely enjoy their systems after calibration and it enhances their entertainment value afterwards.

The folks of the software that I use for calibration have been urging me to spend some more money on obtaining the Pro license to go with the software that I have but I am contemplating since in Malaysia, there needs to be a little more exposure to the benefits of a properly calibrated AV system

I am now trying to work with the retailers to offer this as an option when they purchase the systems, at least it would be easier for people physicologically if they spend the money all at once.

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Added on May 10, 2010, 1:22 pmThanks for the kind words guys....mys_terious as well.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: May 10 2010, 01:22 PM

It's a sign that professional services (at least in this area) are undervalued. People don't appreciate the effort and time involved.

I am afraid that it is indeed so. We still have a long way to go in educating consumers about the importance of audio and visual calibration and how to differentiate / identify good audio or visual.

maybe i'm just being sensitive but i feel as though u guys are bombarding me.... hehe
anyways, i just passed your contact to that someone staying mainland. also, is it possible for me to drop by your place during weekdays to see a difference between calibrated and non-calibrated kuros that has the same menu settings? just wanna know if it's worth it

asherteoh,

This was a general comment and not intended for u. Ur concern is the general concern. Will I see the benefits?

U can drop by, but all my inputs are calibrated. We can try. Maybe on the 428 u can input ur settings.

As I explained, calibration optimizes ur display capabilities. Its ur wish whether u wanna calibrate or not. Also if u r not a fussy guy, don't bother.

Everyone is different, that's what I tried to explain. I apologize if u took the post personally and it is not my intention.

no worries bro... i'm not taking the comments seriously... didn't u notice the ? anyways, i'll see u this coming thurs

not aiming at u at all.. u seem like some1 who likes to learn n do it yourself thats diff.. but if 1 is satisfied with their purchase n performance uncalibrated then its totally ok.. just saying they dont know what they might missing and their system might perform alot better after a proper calibration ..

yeah... i like to diy if possible but without delving more into calibration study and investing into meters... i can't really get the best out of my gear. i do have interest and am quite fussy

Some hiccup in wire transfer as eD give me the old banking info. The shipment will delay another 2 weeks.

toh la like that

aiseh.... potong stim liao. So the Titebond II will reach b4 your sub does.

Titebond II will arrive next week. Si beh boh siok. Last week just finish assassin's creed II. Very good story and graphic is top notch.

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Added on June 18, 2010, 10:23 amItem arrived in Penang. I'll update the build in first post so that it is easier to read.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jun 18 2010, 10:23 AM

look forward to see your new sub

wei your stuff arrive yet? cant wait liao.. quickly build it up and run in.. then can arrange shoot out ... when i say arrange i meant ARRANGE.. thinking of lifting the subs up your house really scares me..

Arrived liao. I'm updating the first page for build info. I beh tahan start to glue the panel should get the cabinet done by this week.

Thanks for sharing the build process. Good to see this being done by one of the LYN forumer.

It's gonna be a monster!

Nice updates I bet pierreye is very busy on weekend and Sun to speed up the building process as he is itching to fire it up.

Hopefully I can get all the panels done by today and send for spraying tomorrow. I'm thinking getting auto spray piano black.

ohh..... sexy

Sub build completed. Will test out the sub this weekend.

Truly respect DIY kaki.

Must be living in the HT nirvana.

Congrats on finishing the ED sub.

Hey, didn't know you ordered the JTRs too. I hear very good things about them.

Been considering JTR since last year. The current move is to meet ref level without distortion and wide dispersion.

u bought jtr too??!!!!

Bro pierreye has posted the JTR photo in page 1

The gloss black is very nicely done.

Coming 2 weeks would be very busy re-arrange all speakers, equipment and the damn heavy sub. You need 2 people to drag the sub, 3 people to carry it. Also need to DIY the speaker stand as the height for JTR T8 is around 26.5 inch. Can't find anything that is 10" for speaker stand. All 3 speakers standing vertically so this would be perfect for matching front speakers.

Will let you guys know how JTR T8 perform. Based on the rave review on avsforum, I'm expecting the performance to blow me away (well, at least blow my balls away!).

Great job there ! Nice work.

Will eagerly await your review on the ED and JTR. Hope can visit you next time I'm in PG.

We'll plan out a shootout if anyone want to haul their sub over (I think mys_terious is eager to bring his PC-13U but we need 3 strong guys to carry the sub).

I just run a test using REW in my guest room. Hitting 105db from 20hz to 100hz easily. The whole room is shaking.

I recall you said your aim is to achieve ref level for your HT system. Do u actually listen at ref level?

My current system can't do it. When I push near 100db, the sound start to distort and uncomfortable. Based on my previous exp, loud doesn't mean uncomfortable. In my previous HT room, -15db from the receiver is the max I can tolerate. After moving into new HT room with sound treatment, -15db feel soft and need to pump the volume to -5 db to feel the kick. I'm looking forward to try out 0db with the new system. Note that ref level for dialog is around 85db, peak 105db for speaker and 115db for sub. It's not constantly 105db (I'm going to have permanent ear damage if keep on listen at 105db for few hours).

So my conclusion good music speaker doesn't mean it's going to be a great HT speaker. You need to look at the sensitivity and max power it can drive. If you hit 105db at quarter of the max rating, I believe distortion would be very low. Most audio equipment when driving past 60% of the rated max rating will have distortion shoot up exponentially.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jul 17 2010, 11:09 AM

Cool! How low does it go in ur room?

i book 1 seat for myself for next audition/shootout ya

I didn't test in my HT room yet. Just take a quick measurement in my guest room. Well, 11hz at 95db.

OMG 11Hz! I also want to book another seat for the shootout. Don't mind hauling any big ass sub up and down as well to secure the seat.

Elite Chew, PC-U is only around 51kg to haul it. If PB-U, then it is 71kg mini-fridge size sub which will be back breaking to haul it up.

My customer in Penang, Mr Tan told me that it takes more than 10minutes for 3 adults to get the PB-U up the staircase to the 1st floor.

I just shift my sub from guest room across to HT room. Well, 2 people to drag the sub for less than 30 feet and it's damn tiring. Can't imagine if need to go up staircase.

My theater room is on 2nd floor, so need 25 mins (factor in extra 5 mins to take a break on 1st floor.)

yes pc-u13 is quite easy especially if the shipping box is still on.. 1 person can go up the stairs already...

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Added on July 19, 2010, 10:14 amif the shootout jadi then every1 must bring a spare shirt.. the previous visit to your house u asked me to lift my projector.. then my computer up to the ht.. sweated like a pig.. after that had a bid of sour smell n BO through out the pj shooutout:)

This post has been edited by mys_terious: Jul 19 2010, 10:14 AM