Don't quite get what you mean when you say that he is a good player but offers nothing? Personally, I've been a fan of Milner since he was a budding 17 year old. I think he has good technique. Not the quickest bloke but he has a good head on his shoulders.

Does it matter if mancs do not express thanks? Would you if the situations were reversed? The cuts run deep and I wouldn't expect any manc to publically say, "thank you" without any sarcastic undertones. On short, it doesn't matter.

Good win last night although it could have been very different had Burnley converted their chances in the first half. Even though we controled the game, they had the better chances. Thankfully, Reina's handling was spot on. I see that Aquilani has been getting some accolades but I personally thought he had a decent game, nothing more. It's what you would expect given his price tag. Ayala is still really raw and his first touched leaves a lot to be desired. If he is indeed our most improved reserve player, it isn't a wonder we don't see more of them breaking through. Once again, Gerrard had a good game when he was deployed on midfield, but that's hardly a surprise anymore is it?

In short, I think we were decent and the scoreline was a flattering one. Next up, Chelsea. See some of you on Sunday then.

Mate of mine opened a new place called Ecoba in Damansara Perdana. It's in PJ Trade Centre where Bata's office as LHDN is. (http://eatdrinkkl.blogspot.com/2010/04/ecoba.html)

Will let you know when it's confirmed.

Hope to see you there this Sunday then mate. A win for us will probably taste as bitter as a loss but in the end, we have to put pride aside and the well being of the club first.

skeleton: Your comments and obervations leave me no choice but to question your intelligence. There isn't a point in posting nonsense here. If you think your opinions are solid ones, come for our gathering this Sunday and express them unless you fear you lack substance. I know that fans are supposed to stand together but I can't help but question your pedigree.

Back to the game. I have to admit that I had gone out drinking the night before, not planning to stay up for the game. Didn't have a good feeling. Came back just before midnight and was thinking about setting my alarm to 3am. Said to myself, "forget it. if it's meant to you, you'll get up". Low and behold, I got up at about 3:30am. Got out of bed, turned the telly on and saw Agger's goal disallowed for offside. I must say that I was both surprised and proud that we ripped into Atletico from the word "go". The boys were up for it and so were the fans. "Could it be another one of those special European nights at Anfield?", I thought to myself. Alas it was not to be as Diego Forlan struck to knock us out. It just had to be him, scoring in both legs. Nonetheless, the lads did us proud this morning. You could see they never stopped running and working. Having said that, Atletico put in a decent effort as well. At least they mustered a few shots on goal unlike us in the 1st leg.

I disagree that Babel had a really poor game. I thought he was decent and held the ball up well. That's the beauty of it though. That two people watching the same game can have differing views and opinions.

I have to agree. I've been asking the same question for 2 seasons now and have realised that when people don't have facts, they make such remarks. "You think so easy to run a country ah? You run it lah". You think so easy to run a club ah? You run it lah". Insightful indeed.

Having said that I won't mind seeing Rafa at the helm for another season if we kick the yanks out. I know Rafa has his faults and I'm critical of him as well but let's let him have his way and see if he's merely making excuses.

Do you even know why he's upset? From what you're posting, it seems you believe it's because we lost last night. Ever wonder it could be because Rafa keeps making excuses (need 4 to 5 more players, which club doesn't?) and empty promises (4th)?

I don't always agree with Mad Moz but having met him a few times, I know one thing for a fact. That he's more devoted than many other Liverpool fans I know. To call him a "glory hunter" is displaying sheer ignorance.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Apr 30 2010, 11:19 AM

I feel sorry for Johnson. First if he had directed his shot further left or right, he may have had a goal and second, all it took was on mistake from him, misjudging the flight of the ball and losing out in the air to a shorter player. Having said that Pepe himself was lucky to escape blame when he totally lost track of the ball. Thankfully Atletico failed to capitalise.

Mate no one doubts our pedigree in Europe. It's a reason teams always say that coming to Anfield is difficult. We won the UEFA Cup under Houllier in a super final. Our youth system has changed but has it improved? When was the last time someone broke into the first team? It isn't Rafa's or even Houllier's fault? Fact of the matter is that the last successful youngster that came through the ranks is Gerrard. If you read Carra's biography, you'll note that he's saying the very same thing.

Let's disect this one at a time then.



Why is this then? A few seasons back, Mourinho didn't have anyone to play in central defence. Having sold their only first team reserve centreback, Robert Huth, he had to field Essien and Ferreira as centrebacks. You reap what you sow. Having said that you have to note that during his time with Valencia, he didn't rely heavily on Mista for goals, so why are we so reliant on Torres. Under Houllier, we relied on the one-dimensional route 1 football to score and really suffered when Owen was out. Before you counter this, I do agree that we play well in patches especially when we go for the jugular so why don't we do that more often? Why the passive, safe approach to games?



I wish I was Superman but we have to do the best with what we have.



Like I said earlier, there will always be a better player than the one you have out there. You don't need to have the best players to get results. It just means you have to work harder at it, which is the hallmark of a good manager. I simply don't but this excuse especially when it's used constantly. You have indicated that the reason Rafa makes promises (e.g. 4th place) is to inject positive energy. How does it feel being a player when your manager constantly says he needs at least 3 more players, and now 4 or 5?




Take what he's said over the course of the whole season. Don't think in silos. We started off as title contenders, before settling for a 4th place finish. In all that time Rafa has been constantly saying that we lack funds and players. Think back to 2005 when we won the Champions League? Did he ever complain about not having funds or players? Heck we started Djimi Traore and gave Harry Kewell his first start in months against AC Milan. Now that things aren't going our way, the same problems that were there earlier are magnified. I liked Rafa because he never complained but I cannot say the same now.

I expect him to be positive but honest. I expect him to back the players fully even if they are crap. Why? Because he signed them. If I recommended you for a job, I'd have your back, no? Instead he's saying that some of them aren't good enough. So Rafa wants the fans to remain optimistic but is insisting that he needs more players over and over again in public no less, instilling optimism in the players?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Apr 30 2010, 11:54 AM

You really do take things literally don't you?

When he says "we" signed Johnson, he meant Rafa/the club.

On the issue of defenders, let's get this straight. A defenders primary task is to what? Precisely. I am personally quite fond of Johnson but he does need to work on his defending.

What?

Ok end of discussion then, unless we all agree with Rafa since we're all so ignorant. How about trying to refute points for once instead of brushing them aside?

With regards to this weekend's game against Chelsea, this I feel will be a serious blow to our confidence. It was our only chance for silverware and although we do have a slim chance to finish 4th, the lads know that it is unlikely and may feel like we've nothing left to play for. I for one feel pretty deflated and can't even begin to imagine how the lads must feel.

On the contrary I would actually like to see Rafa do well at Liverpool. I want him to stop with the excuses, complaints and instead, work on getting the team to function cohesively consistently. Right now we only play well in patches. I really do have a soft spot for Rafa but ultimately, the club comes first and who I like a distant second.

The point that I've constantly tried making is that although we are fans, no player or manager of the club should be above criticism. You get posters saying we should get behind the team and I agree 100%, but that's when you're at the stadium or at the pub watching a game. Behind closed doors e.g. on a thread like this however, we should discuss matters without having our rose tinted glasses on. We need to be less sentimental and more practical. If we let our sentiments get the better of us, Houllier would still be manager. Anyone remember how touched you were when the Kop welcomed him back from heart surgery?

It is why I get a little peeved each time someone has a go at anyone who criticises especially when it's backed with substance. I myself hate comments like, "sack the manager, he sucks!" but then you do get posters who back up their opinions.

Is Rafa the perfect tactician? Well I suppose he has got the better of big teams like Man Utd and Real Madrid in recent times but if you take the whole course of the season into account, we've often looked clueless against average competition. Instead of questioning our tactics, some posters choose to defend the manager by citing a lack of funds or quality players. Sometimes, more often than not, it is our tactics that cost us the game. Sometimes, it is really obvious as well. Anyone agree with the substitution of Torres against Birmingham when we were chasing the game? I know Stevie didn't. Anyone agree playing Martin Skrtel at rightback? How about playing Aurelio in defensive mid against Fiorentina where we got overrun? People have often defended Rafa by saying that he's a master tactician especially in Europe. Well forget that our priority should be the Premiership. This season against Lyon and Fiorentina, we only mustered 1 point in 4 games.

In summary I do not agree with all his decisions but then again no one knows more than Rafa eh?

Just as some don't take it as seriously, you have to accept that some do. To some it isn't just about football. Back in the day, the locals saw the team as a shining beacon of hope during tough time when jobs were scarce and there was little joy in life during the great depression. The team was all they had to add colour to their drab lives.

Fans from abroad like us might not be able to emphatise but I still feel that the club represent something more. Values instilled by Shankly like confidence, walking tall despite being in despair, humility and so on can be applied to daily lives. The club can serve as an institution.

Mate I can empathize with how you feel but the club doesn't condone violence and we sometimes need to bite our tongues. I know how frustrating it is to have ignorant glory hunting mancs give u stick. Having said that I also have come to realize that dudes in Sabah have a mean streak about u lol. I go there every now and then for work... And a little bit of partying Will look u up the next time I'm there.

Sometimes when push comes to shove, we have to shove back. It's a law of survival. There's instigating and then there's standing your ground. After being spat on and shoved, I guess it was time he stood his ground. For those of you who don't frequent KK's nightspots, it can get pretty rough It's why I always go with locals especially if you're out late at some place like Razmataz. If you ask me, it had little to do with the club and more to do with one dude challenging another.

I've mixed feelings this morning. On one hand it's good to note that someone but the mancs is leading the Premiership. On the other hand, losing in such a pathetic manner especially when we had only 2 games at home this season is a bitter pill to swallow. Let's put things in perspective. Would I have sacrificed the game against Chelsea prior to knowing that both Spurs and Man City won? No. I have to admit though that knowing the final Champions League spot was out of reach by the time we kicked off, the thought of losing didn't bother me all that much. Sure it was annoying to watch Drogba suffering from his usual bout with low pain threshhold syndrome, and Kalou battling against bad balance disorder but knowing that Villa lost and Everton drew made is that much more bearable.

So we now find ourselves in 7th and Everton drawing means that we'll finish no lower than 7th even if we lose to Hull next week. If anyone took the piss out of Rafa for complaining about the fixtures this weekend, you can take your foot out of your mouth now. Rafa cited potential problems with motivation given the different kickoff times with teams battling for the title or a spot in Europe, knowing crucial results of other games prior to their respective kickoff times. We went into the game against Chelsea knowing that we'd finish 6th at best and 7th at worst. Either way, we'd be in the Europa League regardless of who wins FA Cup. It looked at though the lads knew it as well. They played with little motivation and looked disinterested at times. Well, can you blame them?



He has indeed put emphasis on the importance of having players from the academy play more competitive games. He and Mourinho were the only managers who proposed that teams be allowed to field a second team in the lower leagues, like they do in Spain and they were criticised for it. Let's not get into another round of discussions. The bottom line is simple. More Spanish players have come through the ranks than English ones. Spain are currently seeded second in the world and have recently won the European Cup. What have England got to show?



Before the season began it was 3 players. This isn't an indication of progress then. Voronin and Dossena not having replacements? Well I figure that Agger and N'Gog are at least as good if not better in those respective positions.

It's depressing really because when we won the Champions League back in 2005, we had a relatively young squad. Players like Baros, Cisse, Traore, Gerrard, Carragher, and Risse were all in their mid-20's back then. It just reinforces the fact that we've not got enough talent coming through the ranks. Our bench is a joke at the moment. Ayala looks far from ready for first team action and he's said to be the most improved of our young uns, and do we really expect Nabil El-Zhar or Daniel Pacheco to change the face of the game? We had nothing to offer going forward against Atletico especially after we lost Kuyt.

Hmm don't see any Chelsea fans there. They usually empty the away end first to avoid scuffles.

Wouldn't look too much into it. Could be the media blowing things out of proportion. Not enough was said to substantiate any accusation. It was indeed a 'gift' but he didn't say it was intentional.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 3 2010, 06:10 PM

Heard of these blokes?

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/

The big difference here is that Chelsea have the money to hold on to their big stars while we don't. If Rafa leaves to say Juventus and offers him a huge salary hike, it's conceivable that he may leave. There are a few examples of players following their managers. Just look at Harry Redknapp. Players have followed him from Portsmouth to Spurs.