1) More luxurious living conditions.
2) Potentially a bigger paycheck.
3) Lower tax.

Don't care who he is but a good point was made. Pro-Rafa supporters seem to cite all his challenges, without actually stating positive points that suggest he is the one. Recent posts suggests that this trend isn't going to change. Can anyone articulate why they feel things will change if we get new owners in? What evidence is there to suggest that we'll buy the right players, and we'll be playing food football. As it is we have a team brimming with international players and we still can't outplay Portsmouth.

Whilst my stance on Rafa isn't as extreme, I do ask myself the questions above.

Hmm despite all the machoistic postings either pro or against Rafa, no one seems to have addressed his question. It's like I said earlier, good points were raised despite his aggressive stance and hardly any were addressed. Instead, we get affected by sentiment and react in a similar aggressive manner. Yet, the matte isn't actually being discussed.

I actually agree with a lot of points he made. The difference is that I feel the same way I did when Houllier overstayed his welcome-Thanks for the memories. I've also said before that I don't mind Rafa having another season under his belt under new ownership. I am not convinced however that new ownership and more money will guarantee success. I mean having a big kitty and being able to buy players is what everyone wants but you have to live with the hand you've been dealt. Has there been much evidence to suggest that we are tactically superior to other Premiership teams? Well our away form in particular would suggest otherwise. So now, when a person says that Rafa is a good tactician, what actually do they mean? Is this based on a personal opinion, or something they've read on Wikipedia? Sure we've dismantled the likes of Real Madrid and Man Utd, but we've also looked really poor against inferior opposition.

The times I've seen us play well, we've played positive football. It's when we went at other teams forcing them defend. This was what we did at the tailend of last season and we went on a winning streak, scoring goals for fun. Why have we reverted to a more cautious approach especially away from home then? Even when we were at home this season, teams managed to stifle us and we lacked imagination in front of goal. So then, will Rafa be able to motivate the players? Sammy Lee's reappointed was supposed to do just that but a lot of the time, the players have looked disinterested. Has Rafa lost the dressing room? You make your own deduction but I wouldn't buy too much into what players say about it in the media. Given time to prepare, they'd be as politically correct as possible. Some players however have reacted spontaneously by airing their frustration to the press. Babel and Riera anyone?

What else frustrates me? That Rafa is making the same excuses over and over. Yes, we all know the situation but repeating it over and over gives me the impression that he's putting up a smokescreen. It gives me the impression that he's gone from a fighter to a whiner. Is this good for motivation levels? What he feels and says impacts the players. By saying he needs 5 new players and more money suggests that our current players aren't good enough. How would you feel if your manager hints that you aren't good enough? Instead of focusing on the problems we have, he should be channeling the players focus away from them. It gets to me that he doesn't. Yes his working conditions aren't ideal and we all already know that. I can empathise but at the same time, I cannot accept that we should use this reason to console ourselves when we play like crap.

I understand that as a fan, we should back Rafa. In fact, I agree with that wholeheartedly. However this is a forum for discussion and I can't help but look at the situation from all sides. It's what I do. Call it a lack of loyalty, passion or whatever, I cannot help but ask if things could be better? After all, absolutely no one is bigger than the club.

My 2 cents.

On the issue of purchasing young talent, it is still a matter of concern when no local lads are coming through the ranks. What could this be down to? The fact that it's cheaper to buy ready made foreign talent than it is to develop young local lads? One may argue that in a world with no borders now, it doesn't matter but I'd beg to differ. Football mercenaries are growing in numbers and it's hard to find players who are not only loyal but willing to fight tooth and nail for their clubs. Stephen Warnock was the last local lad to break into the first team and before him Steven Gerrard, who doesn't have very many years left at the top. It's disheartening to note that there is no or little indication of another Gerrard or even Carragher coming through the ranks.

True but it's also been awhile since Liverpool have churned out any youngster and shipped them out to another club with them having much success. Forget the Fowler's, Owen's and Gerrard's. We also had promising lads like Danny Guthrie, David Thompson, Stephen Warnock, Zak Whitebread who moved on to achieve decent success as players. Whilst not many from Man Utd's academy for example graduated to the first team bar Johnny Evans, players like Danny Higginbotham, Jonathan Greening, Jonathan Spector and Kieran Richardson have all moved on to other Premiership sides and achieved some degree of success. Bar Jonathan Spector, the rest are English born and bred.

The popular sentiment is to not question the manager and I can understand why everyone would like to appear politically correct. It is however a common oversight to note that whilst not everyone who questions his decisions is anti him, those who do have their points ignored. It's easy to read and regurgitate and harder to raise dubvious points against Rafa simply because there are very few around. At least then we know that these points were thought out so it isn't all black & white, something which many fail to see.

If I'm to be perfectly obvious, I sometimes understand why others get sick of posters here going on and on about how great Liverpool fans are. If it's true, then act in a way that reflects that statement, no need to go around telling people how great you are at each given opportunity. While doing so may show that you revere them, it doesn't make you on of them. I'm going to provide the most basic of examples :-

People talk about how loyal and passionate Liverpool fans are. The stories are legendary, from the Scouse cab driver who used up all his savings to follow his beloved Reds to Istanbul to the Thai army captain who travelled to meet the players spme 3 years after promising Robbie Fowler he'd pay them a visit. You don't see them bragging about themselves. The difference is this. While these people are talked about, I see too many talking about themselves. It isn't just about how you behave in front of one another, it's how you behave in front of everyone else.

When someone goes, "eh your club's supporters damn arrogant", there is no need to go, "who says, Liverpool fans are damn humble. We are loyal. We are passionate blah blah". If you had just kept your mouth shut and not answered, you would have scored more points. Mad Moz once pointed out that many choose to shove this "best fan" ideology down the throat of others and its true.

Don't say you are the best, act like you are.

Yes I do have a boss. Where I work, we are encouraged to challenge our managers whenever appropriate. If I don't agree with my bosses opinion, I'll share mine. It's the same with posts here. If you don't agree to something, don't just criticise it, come up with your own opinion or solution. In terms of the company, we're considered an underdog in our industry and have always been challenged to differentiate ourselves from our competitors. Despite our competitors giving us stick, we've always stayed away from retaliating in similar fashion preferring instead to focus on our strengths and not the weaknesses of our competition. Whilst I don't have the power to change the whole vision of the company even if I wanted to, I'm glad I agree with them

In terms of personaly work achievements, I like everyone else would appreciate recognition but not at the cost of someone else. Hell, I've seen attention starved people try to take credit for everything which I find a deplorable trait but to each his own.

I'm no better than anyone else. It's just I firmly believe that talk is cheap.

Let's not forget his freekick against Chelsea in the 2009 Champion's League. Caught Petr Cech completely off guard. It set the tone for an almost miraculous comeback. I'm sure it's importance would have been magnified much more had we won the game.

Probably a mistake not to have accepted Stanley Morgan's bid then. He is a Liverpool fan who prior to buying Wolves, has been trying repeatedly to have his bid accepted. Although his sum of $70 mllion may not have been the lucrative amount everyone was hoping for, it would have been in cash meaning we wouldn't be as much in debt.

At least with Morgan and Moores, we were more financially sound. Although G&H promised millions, they didn't fork out a cent resulting in heavy interest payments to service our massive loans. Yeah I know all about hindsight, but I don't think we'd be much worse off if we did accept Morgan's bid. We just got screwed over lah in the end. Not something anyone could have predicted so I don't think it's fair to blame Moores completely. He wanted an investor who would pump in enough to see us fight the big boys for top signings.

I love Sammy but he isn't managerial material. He did a crap job at Bolton and it's no surprise he hasn't had any offers since.

Ah here's a sentimental candidate especially if we intent to revive the culture of promoting from within. Friend of mine keeps mentioning his name which is why I'm constantly reminded. Long managerial history eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Toshack

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jun 3 2010, 12:57 PM

Who is to say that someone hasn't already been identified?

Actually John Toshack is a reality and he has much more managerial experience than Sammy Lee. Heck, he even managed Real Madrid for two seasons. After 6 years as manager of Wales, maybe he'll be up for a new challenge. There are better condidates of course but we are talking in context of a former Red.

In an ideal world, I would like to have seen what glory Rafa could have brought us had our owners been willing to devote themselves to the club but alas, it seems we'll never know. I have been critical of Rafa for 3 seasons now but not because I thought he was a bogus manager. It was because the events at the club had gotten to him and he turned into someone else. He started to complain a lot, making excuses for each defeat. It was as though he was creating a smoke screen to mask our poor performances against lesser opposition. Seems it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that he'll leave and I must say that I feel a deep sense of sadness. I wlll always remember Istanbul. After years of hearing about our glorious European heritage, I finally witnessed my beloved club winning club football's biggest honour and oh what a game it was. The stuff of legends really. Sends a tingle down my spine recalling how our fans were singing YNWA at half-time despite being down 3-0. Once again however it appears that it's time to move on and it's also time for a new manager to have a go.

Ah interesting comment to debate. If you look at the campaign over the course of the season, we worked hard to get to the finals, often with major injury setbacks. I remember Gerrard and Alonso being injured at the same time. In the finals, we started with the mercurial Djimi Traore and the ever present Harry Kewell, who made a miraculous recovery. Player for player, we were outmatched but thankfully, we were not outfought.

People only say it was down to luck often because they only speak in the context of Istanbul, but what about the rest of the campaign? What about the super comeback against Olympiacos thanks to goals from relative nobodys like Florent Sinama Pongolle and Neil Mellor? Isn't it harder to win games when your non-stars have to shine? Anyone remember how effective Igor Biscan was against Bayer Leverkusen, stepping in for Steven Gerrard? What about the outstanding defensive display at the Delle Api where Sami Hyypia virtually single handedly repelled everything Juventus threw at him, following Luis Garcia's dipping rocket in the first leg? Vladimir's Smicer's rocket against Milan in the finals? If you ask me it was less about luck and more about players stepping up when called upon.

Ok fine, so we may never again score 3 goals in 6 minutes and Andrei Shevchenko may never miss again from 3 yards. How about shifting our focus away from luck for just awhile. What about the introduction of Didi Hamann in the second half, effectively neutralising Kaka? What about shifting Steven Gerrard to rightback, nullifying the threat posed by Serginho's crosses? What about the role the fans played, belting out YNWA at half time? Johan Cruyff said it sent a tingle down his spine. Maradona said that he became a Liverpool fan that moment when he saw the unity between the fans in their team.

I was in Hartamas Square that day organising a viewing party for Carlsberg and as Dudek saved from Shevchenko, I saw 2000 Liverpool fans become one. We partied well into the morning, dancing in the streets, strangers hugging strangers. I only got home at 7am that day, leaving for work at 9am. Now I've organised a number of viewing parties in my team for different clubs and I must say, I've never seen such solidarity amongst fans and such passion. Mostly, fans leave immediately after games but not these fans. Even when we loss in Athens, everyone stayed back to watch the team as they walked up the stairs to claim their runnersup medals. How many would do that? Some may choose to call it luck, or a fluke. Me? Taking into consideration the way things transpired over the course of the campaign, I'd to think it was written in the stars If it was luck, then it should go to whoever deserves it and after the passion I saw in not just the players, but the fans, we deserved it. The harder you work, the luckier you get.

The team played much of the season like they were strangers. Yes, I'm sure there are teams within the team and it's almost expected when you have a bunch of Spaniards, Dutchmen, Englishmen and so on. This isn't a new thing however. Former players like Rigobert Song, El Hadji Diouf, Salif Diao, Stan Collymore, Nicolas Anelka and Sander Westerveld never had many friends.

If anything I think the reason the team was or is divided, is because Rafa had lost the dressing room. This isn't criticism aimed at the man, it's just the way he is. He was never a man manager and that's a known fact. When Sammy Lee was reintroduced in as first team coach and Robbie Fowler re-signed as a player, it was as much for sentimental reasons as much as it was for ability. Rafa knew he needed the glue to hold the team together, and it's fans as well. It worked initially but in the end, everyone still looks to the boss and it didn't help that Rafa constantly complained and asked for better players. Whilst it may be true, constantly making this claim in public doesn't help bring the team together. I strongly feel that he could have done more to in that aspect.

In terms of who will now take the helm? Well put it this way, how many honestly knew Rafa before we signed him? Did you know of him before, or did you google his history after? My point is that even if some relative 'unknown' comes in, it's only because our focus is very much on English football. Sure, we've all heard of the other big name managers but can someone name me the equivalent of Roy Hodgson or Martin O Neil in Spain, Italy, Holland or Germany? How many heard of Gerard Houllier? Arsene Wenger? How many heard of Jose Mourinho before Chelsea signed him? It's the same with players isn't it? Sami Hyypia anyone? Pepe Reina? Xabi Alonso?

Who knows, whoever takes the helm might just use Liverpool FC as their platform to world wide recognition?

It's a big concern when you hear the coaches say that Daniel Ayala is the most promising of the young uns when he's been distinctively average whenever he turns out for the first team. I believe that much of Rafa's transfers involving young promising individuals was done because he had to wheel and deal to raise funds. It's costlier to buy and established player, hoping for his value to rise over the course of a season than it is to invest in an unpolished gem, hoping he'll develop into first team material. When I say "first team material", it's relative. For example Flo-Po and La Tallec could not get a start at Anfield but found themselves in the first teams of Recreativo and Sochoux.

Well if you think of it Rafa didn't/doesn't really rate them either. Towards the end of last season he was quoted as saying we need another 5-6 players. 2 seasons ago, it was 3 players so in a sense, we were getting further from winning the league. Anyway, let's take what he said last, that we need another 5-6 players. I'm assuming that this means the only decent players we have are Steven Gerrard, Pepe Reina, Jamie Carragher, Javier Mascherano, Fernando Torres and Dirk Kuyt. The names you mentioned therefore were probably not good enough even in his eyes.

Dalglish himself has admittedly said that he's been out of management for too long. It's like I said at the end of last season, he would only be a quick temporary fix. His appointment as interim manager would boost the spirits of both the players and fans but in the end, any lack of managerial know-how would stick out as the euphoria dies down. He's playing a good role now though. He's been tasked with helping to look for a new manager and fans are looking to him for salvation. I've no doubt, he'll not let us down.