Saturday after 1pm very jam from town to Greenlane due to some working half day. You better go early at 11pm then cabut before 12:30pm or goto queensbay mall.

ok boss

wah.... 11pm. Bro, typo.

Suddenly becomes DSLR topic

eh 2 hour to go... got pop corn ah

This post has been edited by Maniac: Apr 17 2010, 12:02 PM

sorry. Only drinks. no food in theater room, afraid got ants in the room.

i sponser qnap /synology / tvix / icydock display if you all got gathering next month..
i ocming back to penang 19-25.....

Sponsor as lucky draw? Then we organize second round.

you bring your C-200 lor..

guys...what is the conclusion?...excited to know since i cannot join...

Just finish the comparison and is revealing. I had to say LCD projector had improved quite a margin compare to older gen projector such as ae900. My summary is you can't go wrong with either projector. We even cover half of each projector to project the image for comparison. I will put the recommendation as if you are sensitive to dlp rainbow, get LCD. Either technology, make sure that the projector had a good calibration menu and good tracking. Min are good gamma tracking, greyscale tuning and best with cms. Both projector had very good iris and I can't really detect iris movement unless you anaylse frame by frame.

Benq w6000 advantage:
sharpness is the main advantage. Pc desktop will give a very sharp picture compare to LCD. I think part of the issue is due to LCD 3 panel convergence. If you use pc and gaming, dlp will give you max sharpness. Movie viewing you wouldn't notice much of LCD softness unless you have a very good source or sharp picture.
Brightness - benq is brighter. Max I measure around 21 ftL. Ae4000 max around 14ftL
Both measure on 1.4 gain carada bw screen. Bright scene I'll give slight advantage to dlp.
Color uniformity - more consistence. LCD panel had slight tint in corners. Not much of a concern as you don't notice during movie, only test pattern.

Ae4000 - better black level. No question here. Darker picture had a pop to it due to lower black level plus perfect 2.2 gamma due to 9 point gamma calibration. Get this if you are black level freak.
More film like which I think due to softer image. It's more relaxing on the eye. If you like watching long session, it's less tiring.
As we didn't calibrate the cms I prefer the dlp color but I believe ae4000 could be fine tune further on the color to reduce the slight red push.
No rainbow, a must for those that are rainbow sensitive. 2 of our viewers can see rainbow. I must be the lucky bunch.

No winner here, both had strengths and weaknesses. One more note, I feel ae4000 had better pq compare to rs10. Others are welcome to put in your opinion. 1080p projector really need a good source to show its quality so don't feed DVD or 720p.

PS: rontt88, mys_terious and anfieldude, as all of you had listen to rontt88 submersive, how do you feel about DD-12, should I upgrade? Been feeling I could get more kick from better sub. So far the sub blend in to my main speaker quite good.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Apr 17 2010, 07:26 PM

TQ again for the invitation, its a informative session that benefit me alot!

So now I know what are the weird Green thingy that I always see with projected visual.
The for en lighting me on that!


After the session, for that pop factor, I still prefer the sharpness on the dlp. And that's my personal liking lah. Maybe I am too used to sharp images.

Anyway, here's a casual shot of the projected screen comparison side by side.


and OK i am sold to Windows Media Center!



This post has been edited by Maniac: Apr 17 2010, 09:44 PM

Interesting review esp the AE-4000's perfect 2.2 gamma. That's a remarkable achievement for a projector.

Thanks for sharing your opinions. Good to know the relative merits of both technologies and projectors. Seems Panny upped the ante with the AE-4000. Better PQ than RS10 eh? That's a good achievement at its price point. The perfect 2.2 gamma is a plus too.

I've got to view a good DLP pj one day to understand the sharpness it can give.

Good shootout session. For those who don't like to read long reviews...here's the short summary. Both the projectors were pretty exceptional with each a showcase of their own technology. U cannot go wrong with either.

We started by calibrating the Panny as the BenQ was already calibrated. Since there was a good turnout....., pierreye and I decided that we would just to greyscale to as close as possible and fix the Gamut to Colour 1 as it was pretty accurate on the CIE to start with. The panny behaved very well and we managed to calibrate greyscale and gamma pretty quickly in about 1hr. The 9 point gamma (actually it is almost a 100 point system as u could theoretically adjust literally from 1% to 99% if u had the time) and it doubles up as a greyscale, decent results for greyscale and fantastic results for gamma. I have only once seen gamma as flat as this on a display ever.... (PS. I can definately improve on the greyscale quite a bit more since the controls are available and respond linearly so it can be made better, however, I doubt most could tell the difference, there was not tint in dark or bright scenes as the Delta Es for greyscale are pretty low. I would probably need another 2 hrs to perfect it)

The gamut was ok but red was being pushed. The problem with Colour 1 was that u could not engage the full 3D CMS. U can see the results as attached. The colour errors are slightly above what I would be happy with, but the crowd was getting impatient...and wanted to watch content!

We did numerous movies and also compared pc images.

Out of the bat, all agreed that the BenQ was pretty much a winner in pc text area. Sharp wordings and really crystal clear still images. The Panny was softer but if u did not compare, u could have been pretty ok with it. Watching content, its trickier. Yes, the sharpness and the ability for DLP to better define edges gave it the edge but it was just a touch. Once the image moves, u could not see such a clear difference.

The BenQ calibrated brighter (21ftL) whereas the Panny came in at ~14ftL. However, this is with a 1.4 gain screen and this is the brightest LCD projector I have seen as yet. The black levels looked clearly superior on the Panny but the ability to resolve edges better and the higher peak output on the BenQ gave it the slight edge. We actually did a split screen and on that it looked closer than the numbers suggested. What it meant was that for scenes that had bright images the picture was slighly more "pop" on the BenQ but on darker scenes the Panny had more pop.

Colour performance was very close, but as we did not do a full CMS on the Panny it was pushing red. I know that can be calibrated to perfection as I have done it before on the AE3000 so it will be close. However, the picture was noisier on the BenQ due to its technology. So, it was much smoother looking on the Panny. All this was done at 60Hz refresh and I believe the Panny handled it slightly better.

I did not like the dynamic iris on both, but most others could more than tolerate it.

All in all a good session. I will write more soon to complete this.

Bottom line - I would like to have the sharpness and contrast of the DLP and the black levels of the LCD with the controls that the Panny has. Is it available yet? No...so I guess I will stick to my display


Attached File(s)
 Panny_AE4000_gamut_no_cms.pdf ( 109.05k ) Number of downloads: 13
 Panny_AE4000_quick_greyscale.pdf ( 134.4k ) Number of downloads: 11

Thanks to Pierreye for hosting the shootout, and to Anfieldude for explanation on the technical stuff. It was nice meeting everyone. Too bad Ronn had to leave early. I think what he saw was just calibration and blue, green, red images.

BTW, I think most of us here would kill to get a real HT setup like Pierreye. Very nicely done...

What I know JVC RS35 had a perfect convergence + crazy contrast so it should be the best of both worlds. The price also out of this world.

Hopefully in a few years we can get the same performance at lower price. Of course by then the latest pjs would be pushing the envelope even further

ya thanks to pierreye for the invite... love ur setup man, dream come true for me

Thanks for the compliment. The cost is average but I feel the difficult part is planning. Lots of planning. It should be part of your house renovation, not an after thought cause you will have lots of constraint to fit your ideas. Find one best room you can afford and work from there. Hack the wall if you need to fit your room specification. If I keep my toilet/bathroom in the 3rd floor, I couldn't do a 2 row seat and the false wall.

And last advice, get a fix screen. No wrinkles and distraction of uneven lines compare to pull down screen.

Note on sharpness:
Some more digging in LCOS sharpness vs DLP from below article reflect what we see in LCD vs DLP.

http://www.videovantage.com/?p=819

I would say AE4000 convergence would base on your luck. If you get a unit with 0.4-0.5 pixel misalign, you are very unlucky. Great if you can get a unit within 0.1 to 0.2 pixel. Mys_terious unit looks quite good. On the left hand side of the screen, I estimate around 0.1 pixel but on the right hand side is slightly more, around 0.3 pixel on red.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Apr 18 2010, 08:53 AM

Special thanx to pierreye for letting us enjoy his ht room and anfieldude's effort in calibrating my pj... all in all i think all of us had fun except the part where pierreye's son made me feel so stupid... <10 year old kid can calibrate displays nowadays hahha.